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Old 2011-04-11, 19:33   Link #181
Progbuusters
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Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Wasn't that episode 7 of the anime's second season? I remember him about to stroke her head, but catching himself at the last second when he realizes she must be awake. His expression has "oh, I won't fall for that one" written all over it, and her response is basically "damn, almost got him".
thanks. what was he trying to avoid, being affectionate or treating her like a pet/kid?
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Old 2011-04-11, 21:41   Link #182
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thanks. what was he trying to avoid, being affectionate or treating her like a pet/kid?
Their romance is a complicated one.... almost a dance-fight. Showing unguarded affection would give her a strategic edge. If there's one thing this relationship is keyed on - it is both parties wanting to approach each other as emotional equals.

A lot of romances and romance-comedies since before Shakespeare's time all use these sorts of plot devices.
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Old 2011-04-12, 00:17   Link #183
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Vexx, I think you hit it spot on!

Needless to say, she renders him defenseless throughout the novels... though he begins to hold his own. He does a fair job... considering she DOES HAVE an unfair advantage!

Heck, if she were real, she'd probably turn me into a stammering simpleton... if I happened upon her.
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Old 2011-04-12, 18:21   Link #184
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Yeah, I agree with you guys. Lawrence had finally caught up to her somewhat, and was no longer trying to impress her by taking stupid risks or showing off his mad merchant skillz. He was actually starting to genuinely get through her defenses, so Horo stepped up her game. It felt like she was trying to get him to do something to give her an excuse to call off their relationship, but on the highest possible note.
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Old 2011-04-19, 13:52   Link #185
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well spoken Vexx...i totally agree..also has anyone gone to ISML? we need to all vote for our favorite wolf!! Oh and also i have a character appreciation social group for Horo
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Old 2011-05-07, 18:29   Link #186
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if you have an emotional attachment to holo, send me a pm, if there are enough people we could start a group.
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Old 2011-05-07, 19:38   Link #187
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if you have an emotional attachment to holo, send me a pm, if there are enough people we could start a group.
Actually, one has already been made...
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Old 2011-09-20, 21:15   Link #188
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My take on Holo is just based on the two seasons of anime that I've seen.

She is a very interesting character and an attractive one but I think that she would be difficult to get along with. She can be very rude and her drinking appears to be problematic. She is also manipulative and as a wolf is probably predatory. But to balance that she needs companionship (a pack mate?) and when her trust is won will likely be a loyal friend for life.
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Old 2011-09-20, 23:44   Link #189
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Originally Posted by emarsh View Post
My take on Holo is just based on the two seasons of anime that I've seen.

She is a very interesting character and an attractive one but I think that she would be difficult to get along with. She can be very rude and her drinking appears to be problematic. She is also manipulative and as a wolf is probably predatory. But to balance that she needs companionship (a pack mate?) and when her trust is won will likely be a loyal friend for life.
Well I think a lot of her trickery/rudeness/playfulness (whatever you want to call it) has to do with her seeing herself as better than humans (at least that is the impression I get)

She likes toying with whatever interests her, acting very wity and swift, all the while she enjoys being pampered, treated to large amounts of alcoholic beverages and socialising.
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Old 2011-09-21, 09:31   Link #190
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Well I think a lot of her trickery/rudeness/playfulness (whatever you want to call it) has to do with her seeing herself as better than humans (at least that is the impression I get)
Yes, that makes sense and in many ways she is. One would think that living for all those years would teach humility. I just know that if I were in Lawrence's place I would have a very difficult time dealing with her some of her attitude.
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Old 2011-09-24, 18:22   Link #191
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Originally Posted by emarsh View Post
My take on Holo is just based on the two seasons of anime that I've seen.

She is a very interesting character and an attractive one but I think that she would be difficult to get along with. She can be very rude and her drinking appears to be problematic. She is also manipulative and as a wolf is probably predatory. But to balance that she needs companionship (a pack mate?) and when her trust is won will likely be a loyal friend for life.
I absolutely agree with you. I know Horo better than almost any other people because my real life friend and roommate Maja does very largely resemble Horo as a person (and is almost identical in looks) except for the fact that Maja's never insolent or spoiled, which Horo can be at times, and this disappoints since she's ultimately very intelligent and thoughtful. Of course, much of this arrogance stems from Horo's bitterness from being resented for such a long time, and she basically feels like putting people to the test in order to see their level of kindness and tolerance.

But it must also be noted that I am not Lawrence. Much of the complications between Lawence and Horo has partially been Lawrence's own fault. Don't take it wrongly, he's a good lad, but he can also be somewhat of a hypocrithe at times, he often locks Horo out of his thoughts and emotions, he won't share, but she senses it all, while Lawrence stubbornly continues to deny the truth, as in the third book at the inn, and that is what pisses her off. She may be a ral treat, although I do think all-in-all I'd have a much easier time with her than most others.

Maja basically she's...enigmatic. But at the same time highly thoughtful and reasonable. I mean, she can get pissed, I'm not stating the opposite, but only for serious reasons (such as when her fiancÚ cheated on her) and the biggest obstacle in getting to know her better is rather her exaggerated charm. We were trying to negotiate at a flea market and because of Maja's unusually happy and charming way of talking the merchant actually thought she was hitting on him, even though it's just how she communicates. He gave us a horrid look and then told us to leave before things went ugly. But not before giving us the 2 kg Schwarzwald ham for free so that he'd get rid of us

Last edited by Mr_Tim_Ulrich; 2011-09-24 at 18:43.
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Old 2011-09-24, 22:04   Link #192
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Much of the complications between Lawence and Horo has partially been Lawrence's own fault.
Yes, to be precise, about half of it is Lawrence's fault

That's what makes Horo so compelling - she's the other half. Some people just have the ability to flirt their way into anything, so well that they no longer know how to signal they are serious.

That's also what makes Lawrence so compelling - he's able to stick to Horo despite her massive character flaws, and even blame himself for it. It's rare that a pairing works so well in anime.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Tim_Ulrich View Post
he often locks Horo out of his thoughts and emotions, he won't share, but she senses it all
It's pretty clear that she doesn't sense it all. If she did, she wouldn't have done any of the dumb things she did in volume 3, and in turn he wouldn't have escalated them.

Moreover, there have been several times where it's implied that he's tried to share his emotions, but basically been shut down because Horo doesn't know how (or want) to yield any ground.

So yeah.. not to jump to his defense on cue, but I felt up for a little pointless arguing
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Old 2011-10-03, 02:21   Link #193
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I have to say that the flirting/re-buffs between Lawrence and Holo had me on the edge of my seat! Once Lawrence finally said "I Love You" I thought she'd finally crack, but no! Obviously the season 2 finishes with them getting onto a boat. Season 3 will be done when the funding arrives for it. Tough economy + earthquake/tsunami means delayed to 2013...
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Old 2011-10-04, 15:14   Link #194
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Or just permanently canceled unless people pool enough money together to go re-hire all the original guys for at least one more season.
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Old 2011-10-07, 21:21   Link #195
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I guess, It's better to have nothing then the disappointed season 3...
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Old 2012-02-19, 12:36   Link #196
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Hi, everyone. First post ever on this forum. Never really thought before that it felt compelled enough to actually write in any forum dedicated to anime and manga; but now I did since Wolf and Spice really is something different for me.

And seeing that this thread are dedicated to Horo I wanted to share some of my thoughts about her as an character. I do hope that I'll be concise and don't flow off in, what may be, my rantings.

Many traits of her have been pointed out straight from the beginning of this thread:

* in times she's spoiled and insolent, Most likely because of her fears of being alone.

* Shifts between accents and mannerisms like a actor shifts roles, not because she's an unreliable and disingenuous person but because that is in a way a shield for her in many ways.

* The constant converse between her appearance and true age and the total of all her previous experiences.

* Her emotional needs are weighted against her fears constantly.

* She is undoubtedly a very playful and social person despite her age; she never really lost her inner child one could say.

* She truly is "Horo the wise wolf" and she isn't afraid to flaunt about it; constantly putting Lawrence on his place.

* She is reliable and strong despite her shifting nature, like at times it seems that she changed her mind or is about to break she makes an unexpected turn and continues onward to further secure her accompanying with Lawrence and/or to help him.

And many more.

For me much of this is true about her, that she is a character of contradiction whilst Lawrence is a character of consistency, although in his case it's more from the viewpoint of a child in regards to Horo's own life. He can be consistent because he haven't lived long as Horo and neither have been meet with the same challenges as her, nor will he never have to face what she has to.

In Horo's harsh reality death will always find those partners that isn't sharing the same fate as her. This is a blunt contradiction in her character, something she's painfully aware of. Why should she choose a male that will die in short? There are no facts that she couldn't choose another wolf god; even though the one she meet was below her in any ways, also her disgust of that wolf, she still have a opportunity to bless him with her as a mate. In doing that she could avoid the shattering experience of Lawrence inescapable death.

Also, to blunt from my side, there isn't a way to be sure for her if Lawrence could grant her the happiness of motherhood. Another contradiction in her character. Of course the possibility can be so that it's a common knowledge that the limits of two individuals from different species can be overstepped if one is a god. On another thought: it could be so that she isn't wanting a child so bad that she would forsake Lawrence in favour for a pregnancy. But seeing that she is afraid of loneliness and that she have more or less betrayed herself in season 2, sorry haven't read the LN even if I love to, for me it's quite clear she wish for one child at least. For me this is also a way for Lawrence to 'escape' death through her and to ease the burden of loneliness some for her. Something she might be aware of.

Being my only point of reference, the anime, when we see how she as an character progressed from first season to second season one could actually lose sympathy for her in the second season. When she became somewhat of a bystander in some regards to Lawrence life but for me this is perfectly natural seeing how close they're are to the end. Let me clarify what I mean by "bystander". In the first season she took control quit firmly, only releasing control when to test and tease him and when the moment, the situation, was too close to her true feelings. For me this might reveal a weakness in her character that she actually can't control her inner feelings in regards to Lawrence. Lets face it: she became close to Lawrence just as quickly as Lawrence became close to Her. The parting point between them are the stipulations that effects their own lives this is shown how they treat and react to each others. Her somewhat tentative ways of treating him and his dishonesty of his feelings for her are but two of many facts of this.

In the second season, when they came closer to her homelands, she realised something: that she never want to be alone but fate will render her so. Here she must find a way to deal with this truth. She left Lawrence alone to think, as I see it, to reminiscent about past times of older companions she lost; how she dealt with their partings and how she should deal with Lawrence's own. Her control over herself grew ever so weaker because of the lack of time, perhaps expedited by her minds own time frame, something we saw in the second season when she broke down and embarrassed herself by spouting out her feelings mixed with the sudden loss of her home and her mistrust of Lawrence intentions regarding her.

In her momentary breakdown her grief may of distorted her perception of her own feelings and she also reflected this on Lawrence even if there was a truth to find in her accusations about him seeing her as a plaything for his must basal desires. Not that this was his intentions at first but the fact is that he tried to kiss her quite close after their meeting because of selfishness and rushed emotions. He didn't either take her feelings into regards in that moment even if she orchestrated the events leading up to that moment it still made Lawrence lower his guard and hint his feelings for her. She remembers this and comes to conclusions about Lawrence without being adult about it and to ask him what he was thinking. When she finally does ask him it is in the worst moment when her self control is but nothing. She realise this and tells him that she's sorry for saying such wounding accusations and that it's also her own fault that they never been honest to each others.

Actually if she could had been blunt with her feelings with Lawrence she might avoided this painful experience at the inn. And couple this with the fact that Lawrence been learning from her how to play 'the game' with her, to hide his feelings or how to dress them in a unexpected manner, also the fact is that he's hiding his feelings naturally as a part of his character. This only strengthen the wall between them and makes it's difficult for her to know how to be true about him and her.

For me she have never been close to pathetic in the second season because of the difficulties she faces about Lawrence potentially becoming her mate and the unfairness of each others lives.

Let's call it a quit. I do have more to write about Horo but I don't want to put off anyone with a wall of text.

~ Vargas Gray.

Last edited by Vargas Gray; 2012-02-20 at 17:34.
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Old 2012-03-01, 21:02   Link #197
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Go ahead.. walls of text are fine for a lot of us, I'm sure..

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She is a character of contradiction whilst Lawrence is a character of consistency.
Interesting, I find her to be a very consistent character. She always hides her true feelings, is always proud, has very strong emotions she bottles up, and has very serious trust issues.

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Why should she choose a male that will die in short? There isn't a way to be sure for her if Lawrence could grant her the happiness of motherhood.
It's philosophized that romantic love is something that isn't eternal, even for those who might live eternally. Longevity may not be an issue; for all we know she's fallen out of love with other eternal beings.

I suspect she watched Lawrence for quite a while before she chose him. She isn't a very spontaneous person (except when it comes to food). She tends to go with the flow and rely on Lawrence for entertainment.

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When she became somewhat of a bystander in some regards to Lawrence life. She left Lawrence alone to think.
I'm not sure if that was really her motivation.. Lawrence asked her to let him act on his own, and she let him because she knew how badly it might end if she didn't. He sent Amati to play with her, so she probably didn't have that much of a chance to sit alone and think. And after that, I suspect that her trust issues were surfacing and that she was (maybe subconsciously) testing Lawrence.

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she actually can't control her inner feelings in regards to Lawrence.
She has trouble controlling her inner feelings in general. When Lawrence slapped her hand, she spent hours getting angrier and angrier about it (even though she knew better). When she read about Yoitsu, she spent hours crying, then blew up at him (though she knew better). She hides her true feelings so far down that they can only come out explosively.

She has serious trust issues. She can't just truly expose her deepest feelings to other people, and she even has to trick other people into revealing their own true feelings, rather than just naturally finding out.

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Originally Posted by Vargas Gray View Post
Her somewhat tentative ways of treating him and his dishonesty of his feelings for her are but two of many facts of this.

Lawrence has been learning from her how to play 'the game' with her, to hide his feelings or how to dress them in a unexpected manner, also the fact is that he's hiding his feelings naturally as a part of his character.
Exactly. She makes it difficult for him to be honest, because he doesn't want to burden her, and because she's trained him to be dishonest.. she's turned it into a competition, and makes him feel like an idiot when he's showing any signs of jealousy or being covetous.

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Actually if she could had been blunt with her feelings with Lawrence she might avoided this painful experience at the inn.
Of course. She had plenty of opportunities to stop all of that. But because of her deep trust issues, and maybe being worried that he would think that she didn't quite trust him, she let "the game" go on until she nearly lost him.

I don't think it was a matter of embarrassment, because she willingly embarrassed herself in front of Diana. She's more afraid of being completely honest than of losing Lawrence (she even tries to leave him before he falls for her completely).

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For me she have never been close to pathetic in the second season
Depends on which definition of pathetic you're talking about, but it's easy to find both of their actions and dishonesty contemptible and pitiable, even if you sympathize with why they're being that way. You can understand and agree with it, but it can still be pathetic
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Old 2012-03-03, 22:17   Link #198
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Hey guys, I was hoping for some help understanding a couple things:

-In volume 4, where Holo gets upset after Lawrence says "those two get along well" (referring to Elsa and Evan). I've read over this scene many times and still can't figure out what exactly is happening in both persons' minds. Why is she so upset? What is it about asking her "what will we do when we reach your home" that makes him afraid to ask and makes both of them afraid of the answer?

-In volume 5 or near the end of the second season, why is she so afraid of Lawrence's kindness, to the extent that she wants to leave him there? Is it that she is afraid that she will become tired of him, or the other way around?
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Old 2012-03-03, 23:06   Link #199
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Originally Posted by jte742 View Post
Hey guys, I was hoping for some help understanding a couple things:

-In volume 4, where Holo gets upset after Lawrence says "those two get along well" (referring to Elsa and Evan). I've read over this scene many times and still can't figure out what exactly is happening in both persons' minds. Why is she so upset? What is it about asking her "what will we do when we reach your home" that makes him afraid to ask and makes both of them afraid of the answer?

-In volume 5 or near the end of the second season, why is she so afraid of Lawrence's kindness, to the extent that she wants to leave him there? Is it that she is afraid that she will become tired of him, or the other way around?
The way I understood it, Holo perceived that Lawrence meant their interaction and "relationship" should be like that of Evan and Elsa.

Also, I think the situation around asking the question and answer is... He is afraid she will still want to part ways and he is afraid to hear her say that, while she is afraid to say that she is beginning to see that she wants to be with this mortal... knowing that he will one day pass away.

In Volume 5, I believe it is the same situation.

But, this post is only my foolish opinion.
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Old 2012-03-03, 23:52   Link #200
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Hey guys, I was hoping for some help understanding a couple things:

-In volume 4, where Holo gets upset after Lawrence says "those two get along well" (referring to Elsa and Evan). I've read over this scene many times and still can't figure out what exactly is happening in both persons' minds. Why is she so upset? What is it about asking her "what will we do when we reach your home" that makes him afraid to ask and makes both of them afraid of the answer?

-In volume 5 or near the end of the second season, why is she so afraid of Lawrence's kindness, to the extent that she wants to leave him there? Is it that she is afraid that she will become tired of him, or the other way around?
I'm with Rajura, but the nuances are a bit more complex.

In volume 4, Holo and Lawrence are still thinking that it's over once they reach Yoitsu, and are consciously avoiding the "what happens after that?" question because they don't expect to stay together, even if they want to. So when Lawrence slips up, it forces him to ask that taboo question, even if Holo has no answer. She's upset because of that - she can't make a choice, she has no answer to give him, it's just a painful reminder of that inevitability, and all she can do is forcefully bury the issue again.

In volume 5, she's afraid that his softness is spoiling their relationship, by making it progress too quickly. She doesn't want to face the part of the relationship that comes after the initial "high", and seems to consider it a downhill slope to an inevitably painful end. So she asks him to let her go. But she's so obviously miserable about it that he can't let her go yet, especially since she begs him to be selfish for a change (oh, the irony).

My best guess as to WHY she's afraid of that is this: she can't "grow old" with Lawrence. Unless she was lying, that's the only form she can take. He'll age, but she won't. It'll probably be pretty tough when other people notice that unless he keeps her hidden (not fun or fair to her) or gives up his dream to stay in one place with a shop (which isn't fair to him).
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