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Old 2011-04-13, 05:19   Link #21
Shiryuu
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
All these lesser tailed demons are also immortal, that's why we speculate they come from a different realm than the natural world of this manga, since in the natural world nothing is immortal.
Remember before the 4th hakage sacrifices himself to seal it, he tells that even if Kushina were to die with the kyuubi it would eventually return to this world and Madara will use it again. If these could be killed then why wouldn't someone like the sage or 1st hokage kill them? Instead of letting them be used to kill people. The story needs such a problem that cannot be resolved by just killing the demons.
It's probably because:
A) They have souls too. They wander around and with enough of the correct chakra, they can reform their bodies.
B) Jyuubi's body is still in the moon and a tailed beast's soul can still go back there. But with enough time, it escapes and reforms a new body.

I don't get why Kyuubi keeps saving Naruto though. He can just revive eventually. Maybe B is true and he's afraid of losing himself as Kyuubi.
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Old 2011-04-13, 13:36   Link #22
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wasn't it said that if Naruto dies - Kyuubi dies ?


way back in part 1
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Old 2011-04-13, 15:18   Link #23
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I feel like stating my theory (not unless it's already been confirmed) I'll keep it very short.

I think The Sage of Six Paths gained his eyes from becoming the 10 tails Jinchuuriki. I think that's where kekkei genkai powers come (and evolve from). This also goes into my theory that Gaara has now started a kekkei genkai. As we all know, when he survived the extraction he still kept his abilities, meaning that this has been ingrained into his DNA. But, I guess the best way to confirm that would be to see if his children has sand powers (if he ever have children, that is).

If this is already assumed by all, then disregard this.

(I don't usually post comments... I'm one of those people who just likes to read everybody else's post)
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Old 2011-04-13, 15:28   Link #24
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Good speculation, I buy it.
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Old 2011-04-14, 09:54   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
All these lesser tailed demons are also immortal, that's why we speculate they come from a different realm than the natural world of this manga, since in the natural world nothing is immortal.
Remember before the 4th hakage sacrifices himself to seal it, he tells that even if Kushina were to die with the kyuubi it would eventually return to this world and Madara will use it again. If these could be killed then why wouldn't someone like the sage or 1st hokage kill them? Instead of letting them be used to kill people. The story needs such a problem that cannot be resolved by just killing the demons.
Where did this "different realm" theory come in? They come from the ten tails, a creature made up of Chakra.

Remember the story of the sage of Six Paths is in Konoha, when Madara revealed this he could only read 2 of the three parts (he could read the sharingan, the MS but he needed Nagato's eyes to read the final part). The original of the ten tials will probably be revealed if he reads the scripture with Nagato's eye. It will probably be a big reveal in the current arc. Either that or it will reveal some destiny for Naruto like the Sage frogs had for him.
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Old 2011-04-14, 17:34   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Angelmonster View Post
Where did this "different realm" theory come in? They come from the ten tails, a creature made up of Chakra.
It's about where the 10 tails comes from. Sure it's something completely different from humans and their summon animals, or anything else that lives in the realm of humans. It has infinite source of chakra and it's immortal. Only the sage was able to deal with it, others just use the sealing jutsu developed by the sage and hope it works, and usually they fail to control demons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelmonster View Post
Remember the story of the sage of Six Paths is in Konoha, when Madara revealed this he could only read 2 of the three parts (he could read the sharingan, the MS but he needed Nagato's eyes to read the final part).
Did you miss the chapter when Madara states that he gave those eyes to Nagato? We don't know how much could Madara read of that, maybe he could read all or maybe just a part and he needed Nagato.
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Old 2011-04-14, 19:11   Link #27
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Thanks... I hope we find out if it's right or not soon (It'll probably be close to the end of the series, though)
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Old 2011-04-14, 20:16   Link #28
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Originally Posted by CoreyPmc1 View Post
I feel like stating my theory (not unless it's already been confirmed) I'll keep it very short.

I think The Sage of Six Paths gained his eyes from becoming the 10 tails Jinchuuriki. I think that's where kekkei genkai powers come (and evolve from). This also goes into my theory that Gaara has now started a kekkei genkai. As we all know, when he survived the extraction he still kept his abilities, meaning that this has been ingrained into his DNA. But, I guess the best way to confirm that would be to see if his children has sand powers (if he ever have children, that is).

If this is already assumed by all, then disregard this.

(I don't usually post comments... I'm one of those people who just likes to read everybody else's post)
Hmmm.....kind of interesting.
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Old 2011-04-18, 10:47   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Did you miss the chapter when Madara states that he gave those eyes to Nagato? We don't know how much could Madara read of that, maybe he could read all or maybe just a part and he needed Nagato.
I didn't miss it thanks, I took it as him giving them to nagato meant he activated them by causing the war in the Mists land when Nagato was a child. not that he surgically implanted them into Nagato as a child. The eye blood line limits seem to have to be activated before they become useful, Madara needed them but Nagato had to activate them first...at least that is wha tI took from the storyline.

If he wanted the renningan from Nagato. why would he give them to Nagato in the first place?
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Old 2011-04-18, 12:03   Link #30
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Angelmonster View Post
I didn't miss it thanks, I took it as him giving them to nagato meant he activated them by causing the war in the Mists land when Nagato was a child. not that he surgically implanted them into Nagato as a child. The eye blood line limits seem to have to be activated before they become useful, Madara needed them but Nagato had to activate them first...at least that is wha tI took from the storyline.

If he wanted the renningan from Nagato. why would he give them to Nagato in the first place?
That is what i was thinking about too, my assumption is that Madara probably implanted sharingan or even his own EMS eyes into Nagato so that his Uzumaki blood would evolve the sharingan into the rinnegan. This theory would be probably the most logical if Madara searched for all Uzumaki descendants that are scattered around the world and used them as containers for the sharingan eyes. And one of them had awakened the rinnegan while the others probably failed and died. He probably killed Nagato's Uzumaki parents and placed him in some random family. BTW if this were true then both Sasuke and Naruto could say that Madara used their clans to gain more power, and in the process most of them died. This would also mean that most likely the Sage of 6 path's was an Uzumaki, and so Sasuke and Naruto are distant siblings.

But to return to the original question: we only have assumptions, so if we take Madara's words literally then he had the rinnegan before he met Nagato. But it doesn't matter anyway, since Nagato was under his orders he could simply order Nagato to read it for him. Or do you expect that Nagato lied to Madara?
One sign that he didn't lie is that when he did his Chibaku Tensei he said that the sage created the moon with it, and Madara tells the same thing to the kages at the summit, so it seems these two guys had the same knowledge. But of course there can be a last chapter in that text that Nagato didn't want to reveal to Madara, but why would he lie to Madara when he was always so loyal to him, Kishimoto never even hinted that Nagato was not totally loyal to Madara.
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Old 2011-04-22, 11:25   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
That is what i was thinking about too, my assumption is that Madara probably implanted sharingan or even his own EMS eyes into Nagato so that his Uzumaki blood would evolve the sharingan into the rinnegan. This theory would be probably the most logical if Madara searched for all Uzumaki descendants that are scattered around the world and used them as containers for the sharingan eyes. And one of them had awakened the rinnegan while the others probably failed and died. He probably killed Nagato's Uzumaki parents and placed him in some random family. BTW if this were true then both Sasuke and Naruto could say that Madara used their clans to gain more power, and in the process most of them died. This would also mean that most likely the Sage of 6 path's was an Uzumaki, and so Sasuke and Naruto are distant siblings.
uzumaki is just probably another extended family under the senju clan who got the best genes handed down to them. i think had naruto awaken his rinnegan powers it wouldve been during the pein invasion, but so far nothing. Now to be the next rikudou 6 paths one must have the eyes and body, i think what ever itachi gave naruto with that black crow could either be DNA or rare weapons/jutsus. If its DNA, then his in the same boat as to what madara/tobi is doing atm, trying to perfect himself to become the next riqudou...


another problem i have with the manga how rinnegan and sharingan is heavily concentrated on cause it was passed down by the riqudou...but where does the byuyaken come in? i thought the sharingan was the evolution from byuyaken?
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Old 2011-04-22, 11:38   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
That is what i was thinking about too, my assumption is that Madara probably implanted sharingan or even his own EMS eyes into Nagato so that his Uzumaki blood would evolve the sharingan into the rinnegan. This theory would be probably the most logical if Madara searched for all Uzumaki descendants that are scattered around the world and used them as containers for the sharingan eyes. And one of them had awakened the rinnegan while the others probably failed and died. He probably killed Nagato's Uzumaki parents and placed him in some random family. BTW if this were true then both Sasuke and Naruto could say that Madara used their clans to gain more power, and in the process most of them died. This would also mean that most likely the Sage of 6 path's was an Uzumaki, and so Sasuke and Naruto are distant siblings.

But to return to the original question: we only have assumptions, so if we take Madara's words literally then he had the rinnegan before he met Nagato. But it doesn't matter anyway, since Nagato was under his orders he could simply order Nagato to read it for him. Or do you expect that Nagato lied to Madara?
One sign that he didn't lie is that when he did his Chibaku Tensei he said that the sage created the moon with it, and Madara tells the same thing to the kages at the summit, so it seems these two guys had the same knowledge. But of course there can be a last chapter in that text that Nagato didn't want to reveal to Madara, but why would he lie to Madara when he was always so loyal to him, Kishimoto never even hinted that Nagato was not totally loyal to Madara.
I still do not see it as he physically put the eyes into Nagato. i see it as he kne wnagato could possibly have them so he caused the war that broguht them out of him.

As for the Byakugan I thoguht it was the other way, that it is a branch off of the Sharingan (it only takes the Sharingan's ability to see Chakra and none of its other abilities).
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Old 2011-04-24, 18:10   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Angelmonster View Post
I still do not see it as he physically put the eyes into Nagato. i see it as he kne wnagato could possibly have them so he caused the war that broguht them out of him.

As for the Byakugan I thoguht it was the other way, that it is a branch off of the Sharingan (it only takes the Sharingan's ability to see Chakra and none of its other abilities).
Long ago in a story told far far away it was said that the Sharingan was an offshoot of the Byakugan... but that idea was disposed of...
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Old 2011-10-30, 12:32   Link #34
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The Juubi was presented as an evil beast and the sage of the six paths was the savior.
But what if the reality is the contrary? The Juubi is actually a god and the sage stole the power of this god. and my wild guess would be that he used the treasured tools to trap Juubi.
It would explain why ninjutsu was impossible before the sage and we can have a proper ending for Kyuubi being merged with the other ones to be the god again.

Last edited by MeroBAKA; 2011-11-02 at 12:24. Reason: typo
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Old 2011-10-30, 14:25   Link #35
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A god..... seriously... Great let's introduce a god in a anime as if it hasn't been done to death.
I rather not. I'm rather enjoying this god-less manga/anime.
Besides we humans have invented enough god's to last us several life times.

However your idea of not having it all black and white is better then what we have right now. I'd rather see the sage be depicted as a proper (though powerfull and wise) human, instead of something omnipotent. Then again his lineage splitting was a mistake, so I guess he's not without flaws.
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Old 2011-10-30, 21:33   Link #36
Masuzu
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The Kyubi pretty much shows us what the Jubi was like, more or less, so I'm not sure how it could be turned around like that.
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Old 2011-10-31, 16:03   Link #37
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A god..... seriously... Great let's introduce a god in a anime as if it hasn't been done to death.
I rather not. I'm rather enjoying this god-less manga/anime.
We already had some gods: the death god and Yashin (Hidan's god who gave immortality to him). These seem to be nothing more than plot devices so far, i think they are not meant to be anything more, so you can be happy with the god-less manga
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Old 2011-10-31, 22:46   Link #38
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The more I start to think about it, the more it makes sense, but I doubt Kishi will pull that card out anyway.
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Old 2011-11-01, 09:32   Link #39
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We already had some gods: the death god and Yashin (Hidan's god who gave immortality to him). These seem to be nothing more than plot devices so far, i think they are not meant to be anything more, so you can be happy with the god-less manga
Agreed.
And thank "god" for that
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Old 2011-11-01, 16:22   Link #40
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Agreed.
And thank "god" for that
It could have gone the Dragon Ball way too
I mean in DB/DBZ there were some "gods", and Goku and company usually became stronger than the current god and then a stronger one was introduced.
There was the green namekian old guy, then there was the small one that lived on a small planet with large gravity, then the one that wanted to capture Majin Buu. They just leveled up beyond the power of gods
The idea of becoming strong like the gods seems to be fitting these type of shonen manga where the heroes constantly level up. Here the word "god" means someone whose power level seems impossible to reach, but then the hero of course succeeds.
And of course in the process they became strong enough to blow up planets and shit.

I think Kishimoto doesn't want to go that way for now, but when the manga ends maybe some business people will show him lots of money to continue.
For now the only one who was "god" was the Sage of the six paths, but again he is just a plot device for now. One of the negative effects would be that with such powers even death would become meaningless, like in DBZ where dead people could be brougt back. Then the sacrifice of people like Jiraiya, Minato or Itachi would lose it's weight and that would make the whole story much weaker.
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