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Old 2011-04-14, 19:58   Link #61
Child_of_Sierra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Nice opening post.
Didn't KenA ask them not to use the manga material though?Well, what they make is quite easy to tell apart from other things.
I didn't know that. Why would an author wish his manga to be changed so radically. Either way my point is that SHAFT's style in this adaptation felt off and ill-advised. As a fair number of people have already said, the success of their work depends on the source material.

Not that their success is limited from adapting works. Madoka showed that they can do original work but that style with witches and battles is imo the weakest link for the franchise as part of a visual medium.

Being an anime original product makes me hesitant to call the show a success until it ends: a fair number of other studios have made anime originals with interesting concepts before. Most turned out good all the way until the ending.

How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is. Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.


(Satisfying manner: does not refer to people getting their preferred shipping ending but to the fact that introduced concepts that got me hooked in the beginning are shown as integral to the story. Not something they introduced to get me hooked only to completely forget/drop midway in the show)
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Old 2011-04-14, 20:00   Link #62
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I've enjoyed their work on Negima!? It was far far better work than the other Negima series. It was so crappy; I do not even remember the name of that studio.

But yea, when I watched Bakemonogatari, their style does require extra attention. Otherwise, y'might as well watch the series will trippy or something like that.
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Old 2011-04-14, 20:12   Link #63
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Let me put it this way... I love SHAFT because of all the things they do wrong, release schedule, unorthodox frames, walls of text, etc. It is refreshing to see something so unconventional break into mainstream studios production and finding imitators

A tad bit more seriously, they did some pretty good adaptions (story-wise), and added visuals that enhanced the story rather than degrade it.
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Old 2011-04-14, 20:22   Link #64
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The only shows that I'm aware of that I've seen by Shaft, or rather, directed by Shinbo, were Hidamari Sketch and Zetsubou-sensei. Thing is, the Zetsubou-sensei manga alone screams "only Shaft/Shinbo can capture my craziness," and that they do.
Quote:
Plus when they do have the budget, they do amazing things with it, and even when they don't, they mask it pretty well.
The minimalist approach did wonders for Hidamari Sketch, which is otherwise an unremarkable 4-koma.

I've still yet to watch Madoka, but now that I've heard that the liberties they take in quality are marketing gimmicks, maybe I'll just wait for the DVD/Blu Ray releases. It's not like they're going to make us wait an entire year for it to properly finish, right? Right?!
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Old 2011-04-14, 21:36   Link #65
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Ah, well, for all of their scheduling screw ups, this time it's actually not their fault; channel screwed them over, and they actually have a date of next week.
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Old 2011-04-15, 00:29   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Ah, well, for all of their scheduling screw ups, this time it's actually not their fault; channel screwed them over, and they actually have a date of next week.

It wasn't their fault originally for Bakemonogatari, since they decided on 15 episodes after they already reserved the 12 episode slots and the channel refused to change, which then made it their fault by taking forever on the last three episode .

/On topic: I've only seen Madoka and Bakemonogatari from Shaft both of which have been series I've enjoyed.... wait *looks up list of series by shaft*, Shaft made that series?, I can't believe one of the first animes I remember enjoying when it aired on T.V. many years ago was by Shaft and I didn't realize it until now . Then again remembering how random of show it was it kind of makes sense that Shaft made it... It was Kyattou Ninden Teyandee, or it's english title "Samurai Pizza Cats" . Actually looking more it seems it have been their first series actually.
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Old 2011-04-15, 00:44   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, they're currently deconstructing magical girl anime. Which, really, is only one step removed from deconstructing moe itself.

That's pretty bold, imo.
Not exactly. While I do get what you mean, the magical girl genre is not synonymous with moe (or at least, it shouldn't be, but then again the definition for moe changes so much) and it had been done before (in fact, Magical girls are sort of the target for break the cutie effect) What's bold about it, or rather, what different from other deconstructions is how far they took the idea of spinning the core idea of the genre.

The really fascinating thing about Madoka is how successful it ended up turning out.
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They probably do a bit too much, yeah, but as I argued above, there are benefits to doing a lot.

There's probably a happy medium somewhere between SHAFT's "20 projects at a time", and Kyoto Animation's 2 or 3 per year.
When they're able to handle it :P I mean, there is little point in trying to produce over your limit if a great deal of what you made ends being sub par right?

But yeah, obviously there needs to be a nice average they can work with. For a small studio, if they put their resources into a limited number of shows, they can even beat KyoAni in terms of quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra View Post
I didn't know that. Why would an author wish his manga to be changed so radically. Either way my point is that SHAFT's style in this adaptation felt off and ill-advised. As a fair number of people have already said, the success of their work depends on the source material.
I think KenA was upset over how awful the first anime was, so he forbade them from touching the manga :X I need to find the source for this though.

I think their success, while obviously relying on the material their working with, also relies on how well they manage to attract attention to their shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra View Post
How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is
I don't think there is really a need to see how Madoka ends to figure out what sort of studio SHAFT is.
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Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.


(Satisfying manner: does not refer to people getting their preferred shipping ending but to the fact that introduced concepts that got me hooked in the beginning are shown as integral to the story. Not something they introduced to get me hooked only to completely forget/drop midway in the show)
Absolutely agree on this
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Old 2011-04-15, 03:35   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I can't believe one of the first animes I remember enjoying when it aired on T.V. many years ago was by Shaft and I didn't realize it until now . Then again remembering how random of show it was it kind of makes sense that Shaft made it... It was Kyattou Ninden Teyandee, or it's english title "Samurai Pizza Cats" . Actually looking more it seems it have been their first series actually.
Last I checked, SHAFT didn't make SPC. You may want to re-check that list.
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Old 2011-04-15, 04:52   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra View Post
How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is. Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.
Honestly all that is on Gen, he is writing the show after all, but I suppose he won't get the credit or blame for it from most fans and whichever way it falls will all go to SHAFT.
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Old 2011-04-15, 05:22   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Honestly all that is on Gen, he is writing the show after all, but I suppose he won't get the credit or blame for it from most fans and whichever way it falls will all go to SHAFT.
If the writer made a poor ending then the studio that went with his script takes the blame as well. I see a significant portion of the market not buying a show that only had a good start and middle.

This is a fairly dark what-if scenario though, I doubt that Madoka will have an ending anywhere as disappointing as Mai Hime.
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Old 2011-04-15, 11:21   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Last I checked, SHAFT didn't make SPC. You may want to re-check that list.
According to MAL, Animeplanet, and ANN Shaft at least had involvement in the creation of the series, which still makes it their oldest project, since no lists of animes by them show anything prior to 1995 aside from SPC[in 1990~1991] .
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Old 2011-04-15, 11:45   Link #72
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I have three shows that ultimately put SHAFT the best studio for me. Arakawa, Bakemonogatari and currently airing Madoka. I swear ever since Bakemonogatari was made, SHAFT started appealing to me more and more. I even thought the "oops we didn't finish making an episode on time" to be cool. I didn't like the waiting though.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they don't screw up the ending of Madoka.
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Old 2011-11-08, 01:47   Link #73
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SHAFT has Nisemonogatari coming out in January.

It also just announced this.

I wonder... now that SHAFT has two blockbuster A-Tier franchises (XXXXmonogatari and Madoka Magica) to its name, will it choose to trade-in quantity for just focusing on and milking its two big franchises for all they're worth?

And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would love to hear opinions on this from fellow SHAFT fans.
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Old 2011-11-08, 01:49   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
SHAFT has Nisemonogatari coming out in January.

It also just announced this.

I wonder... now that SHAFT has two blockbuster A-Tier franchises (XXXXmonogatari and Madoka Magica) to its name, will it choose to trade-in quantity for just focusing on and milking its two big franchises for all they're worth?

And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would love to hear opinions on this from fellow SHAFT fans.
Hmm all I can say is it wouldn't be shaft without their near insane scheduling for series that would make any other studio's suffer greatly .
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Old 2011-11-08, 02:14   Link #75
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Shaft's top five.
1. Puella Magi Madoka Magica
2. Bakemonogatari
3. Hidamari Sketch (staple anime for a very long run, and even the characters are staple in Japan Saimoe.)
4. Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (the anime that salvaged Shaft's Dignity during 2007, after not so impressive 2006 year.)
5. Arakawa Under the Bridge (almost forgot that this is better than Ef Series, since it features all those likable characters and the best voiced by Maaya Sakamoto so far.)

Shaft's worst
1. Negima!? (not those recent OVAs with some help from Ken Akamatsu himself.)
2. Natsu no Arashi!

I have high hopes for Shaft next year with 2-3 anime movies they would make. No slacking off please.
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Old 2011-11-08, 02:48   Link #76
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SHAFT is one of a kind studio. they have a reputation of bastardizing schedules and yet they still awe its fans. XDD I'm one of those since madoka. xD

kinda excited for the first madoka film. it's going to be glorious, i hope.
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Old 2011-11-08, 07:10   Link #77
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I'm quite sure that Shaft will do anime adaptation for all Monogatari novel. After they've done with three movies of Madoka, they may still do another OVA/spin-off for Madoka. But due to Shaft craziness, I'm sure that we will still see some slice of life/comedy/senseless/absurd series like Hidamari, Denpa Onna, Arakawa or Maria Holic from them. But put Monogatari and Madoka aside, I want to see another season of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.
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Old 2011-11-08, 09:16   Link #78
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And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
I'm optimistic about Nisemonogatari. It's based on more source material by the same author, and from what I've seen, it looks awesome. Milking or not, I think there's good reason to believe that it will be at least a good show. I think that's worth trading in a few other shows for; or I'm at least willing to take that risk.

Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.

All in all, though, the more success Shaft has, the higher the chances are of them continuing to produce shows in the style that I've loved for so long.
I don't want that to go away, even if I have to endure a dozen recap movies to keep them afloat.
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Old 2011-11-08, 12:50   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
I'm optimistic about Nisemonogatari. It's based on more source material by the same author, and from what I've seen, it looks awesome. Milking or not, I think there's good reason to believe that it will be at least a good show. I think that's worth trading in a few other shows for; or I'm at least willing to take that risk.

Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.

All in all, though, the more success Shaft has, the higher the chances are of them continuing to produce shows in the style that I've loved for so long.
I don't want that to go away, even if I have to endure a dozen recap movies to keep them afloat.
Same here: I've come to enjoy Shaft shows for quite a while and Shibo's work just sealed the deal: Hidamari is one of my personal favourites for example and Bakemonogatari just blew my mind out of the water when it first came out (which means I was already pretty pumped up for a PMMM that didn't disappoint).

I am however very apprehensive about the upcoming Madoka films. The show was pretty much standalone with an above average conclusion for what one would expect out of Urobuchi () and pretty good pacing aside from the clearly rushed episode 10 yet they now decide to make not one but three separate movies for what feels like a completed work. Yes, it does feel pretty much like milking the series.

Strangely I would be fine with recap movies since that would be pretty standard milking of a popular franchise but the mention of a brand new story gets me really apprehensive about what's coming. If it's something simple like an expanded episode 10 then I would be OK with it but I most definitely suspect it'll probably mess with the established canon so far and as a fan of the work I can't help but be on my toes for a possible "bastardization" for the sake of money making.

But let's wait and see. If it means Shaft will get more money to produce the kind of shows I've enjoyed out of them then it's at least understandable. Heck, we may even get something good out of this.
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Old 2011-11-10, 02:03   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
SHAFT has Nisemonogatari coming out in January.

It also just announced this.

I wonder... now that SHAFT has two blockbuster A-Tier franchises (XXXXmonogatari and Madoka Magica) to its name, will it choose to trade-in quantity for just focusing on and milking its two big franchises for all they're worth?

And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would love to hear opinions on this from fellow SHAFT fans.
First, milking is never a bad thing. I call it 'giving appreciation to fans of the series'. Hidamari had 4th season and Kumeta Kouji was milked to death with SZS and Katte ni Kaijo. Those were one of the clear reasons why Shaft could build up such a strong fanbase. So... what do you expect? u.u~~

In case of Nisemonogatari, it is not milking. It is just simply animating sequel of already existing novel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/NewType_2011-12

This might change the way you think about new madoka movie.

------

The real problem of Shaft is not budget. It is just scheduling crisis SHAFT has as a whole since release of Tsukiyomi. Just remember that Madoka Magica is a project that has started three years ago, and only reason they couldn't get on working was due to Shaft's schedule.
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Last edited by applejuice; 2011-11-10 at 02:37.
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