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Old 2011-04-16, 23:59   Link #9761
Phibrizzo
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Err so you miss the part on the novel that Divine punishment even while beign nerfed due the imaginary number sector was affecting all the world? plus lets see, "The queen of adriatic sea".
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Old 2011-04-17, 00:00   Link #9762
shmaster
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No, Divine Punishment has no range limit. Index confirmed that in her talk with Touma. It is because it can hit you no matter where you are, the spell can be considered a Divine Punishment.

Index: "距離や場所を問わずに叩き潰す! だから神様の[天罰]"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Ah but the Knight Leader is invisible to the recuperating Acqua in terms of speed. To the point that if Acqua switched to rune magic and neglected his physical boosts, he would be overpowered instantly. If the latter still had Mary's Mercy, I think their speed would be about even.
You know, Knight Leader has to slow down if he tries to disable weapon. He clearly having difficulty to react when he tries to disable Aqua when Aqua keeps on pulling out new weapons.
In other words, Knight Leader can't have both advantage at the same time.

On the other hand, Aqua CAN use his spells while fighting in super sonic speed when he has Mary's Mercy on. Also, if he use that moon spell, he'll be further accelerated. Also, Aqua's magic is not Rune magic. He cast spells that are represent by Gabriel, thus through water and the moon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
God's Right Seat refine themselves to be as close as angels as possible, just by knowing divine spells they already have an advantage over someone else who can only happen to have access to human magic; they power is not only strong (tough not as fundamentally strong as an angel) but they have the advantage in knowledge, even if the enemy is overcheezed by the Curtana.
Indeed, even Index herself stated that the formulas conjured by the God's Right Seat is nowhere to be found in her library of grimores.
GRS not only have power, they also have much more knowledge.
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Old 2011-04-17, 00:31   Link #9763
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Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
No, even weakened Divine punishment can cover continents; it was a stated fact that she knocked out people all over the globe.

The Curtana is supposed to grant the power of an archangel, but it has many weakness in itself and it can't be used outside England, that can be easily exploited. Even if you focus all of the power of the Curtana into a single person (which you can't since by nature the power is distributed), that single person can't be as good as an angel because of the knowledge gap.

God's Right Seat refine themselves to be as close as angels as possible, just by knowing divine spells they already have an advantage over someone else who can only happen to have access to human magic; they power is not only strong (tough not as fundamentally strong as an angel) but they have the advantage in knowledge, even if the enemy is overcheezed by the Curtana. Probably Pendex has a better chance against GRS than the royals, but Pendex also has weakness as Fiamma's actions proved throughout the story.
That was not weakened Divined Punishment. That was her losing control of it.

the only Angel class being in GRS is Fianma. As for Curtana. It's a truer expression of Telesma than any of GRS besides Fianma.

Pendex's weakness lies in disrupting the remote. Something that maybe only Acqua has a shot at in an invasion. Really, now, if GRS wants to attack Britain, instead of just the three of them invading themselves in a suicidal manner, it would be better to drop Gregorio's Chant on key targets followed by the La Regina spell. Without Fianma, the RCC is not the superpower it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
Err so you miss the part on the novel that Divine punishment even while beign nerfed due the imaginary number sector was affecting all the world? plus lets see, "The queen of adriatic sea".
You were saying God's Right Seat. La Regina is not a GRS specific ability. It's an RCC ritual. Divine Punishment was never being nerfed. There was only Vento losing control over it due to the AIM effect on her body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
No, Divine Punishment has no range limit. Index confirmed that in her talk with Touma. It is because it can hit you no matter where you are, the spell can be considered a Divine Punishment.

Index: "距離や場所を問わずに叩き潰す! だから神様の[天罰]"



You know, Knight Leader has to slow down if he tries to disable weapon. He clearly having difficulty to react when he tries to disable Aqua when Aqua keeps on pulling out new weapons.
In other words, Knight Leader can't have both advantage at the same time.

On the other hand, Aqua CAN use his spells while fighting in super sonic speed when he has Mary's Mercy on. Also, if he use that moon spell, he'll be further accelerated. Also, Aqua's magic is not Rune magic. He cast spells that are represent by Gabriel, thus through water and the moon.



Indeed, even Index herself stated that the formulas conjured by the God's Right Seat is nowhere to be found in her library of grimores.
GRS not only have power, they also have much more knowledge.
Yes, well cannot be helped when all of GRS's attacks shown are less damaging then their faction's superweapons or those of the UK side. They may using Telesma based magic but the damage output is not in that class. Which is also question mark what happens when Divine Punishment meets Curtana's influence. Both are from the same Telesma basis so can they deflect each other I don't know but I'm willing to bet that DP won't come out unscathed.

I say runes because that is what Knight Leader calls it. I know it's water magic more than anything else like when he tsunami-ed that mercenary base in Russia. He could react well when Acqua simply changes the setting on Ascalon. It's more of surprise when he pulls out the second hidden blade and mace which made him slow down more than anything else.
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Old 2011-04-17, 00:43   Link #9764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That was not weakened Divined Punishment. That was her losing control of it.

You were saying God's Right Seat. La Regina is not a GRS specific ability. It's an RCC ritual.
She never lost control over it, and tell that to Vent she already adjust La Regina, and as Fiamma point it so long he lives he can recreate God Right Seat.
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Old 2011-04-17, 00:46   Link #9765
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Queen of Adriaic spell couldn't be used against other targets apart from Venice to begin with, the RCC had to add a new part to fire at AC. So they can't just use that to bombard other factions - otherwise if that's taken over by enemies it'll be troublesome at least.

Acqua CAN use rune magic for the water attacks, he used some 'Laguz' runes against the Amakusa (Vol16 ch2) - but those was just him playing around. During WW3 Acqua was controlling water directly from the snow around him as a shield against missiles.

And Carissa did have a way to get around the 'Curtana only to be able to be used in UK' limitation - a flying fortress that makes surrounding under the rule of UK (in Vol20), so in theory she could have the knights guard UK while she wipes out Europe (GRS aside).
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Old 2011-04-17, 01:05   Link #9766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
She never lost control over it, and tell that to Vent she already adjust La Regina, and as Fiamma point it so long he lives he can recreate God Right Seat.
Yes but wasn't the original topic not including Fianma? Because obviously he'll flatten everything in existence that is not God, Aleister, Aiwass or Touma?

And she did lose control over it. She was bleeding from the AIM and the already hard to target spell spread beyond Academy's confines.

La Regina was the best I could think of to use against a nation but yes the UK does have a modern navy as well so victory is not 100% certain.
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Old 2011-04-17, 01:08   Link #9767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Yes but wasn't the original topic not including Fianma? Because obviously he'll flatten everything in existence that is not God, Aleister, Aiwass or Touma?

And she did lose control over it. She was bleeding from the AIM and the already hard to target spell spread beyond Academy's confines.

La Regina was the best I could think of to use against a nation but yes the UK does have a modern navy as well so victory is not 100% certain.
I think you miss the quote here... Divine punsihment was never restricted to just academy city, quote the exact moment on the novel its implied or told that she actually lost control over it.

And La Regina regen no matter how many ships are destroyed, and even so that's just to protect the main ship, not the actual attack.
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Old 2011-04-17, 01:15   Link #9768
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Yes, Aqua can use rune, but what I mean isn't that he can't use it. But I mean those spells he pulls out when he is in full power while fighting Kanzaki where he controls water and the forces of the moon directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That was not weakened Divined Punishment. That was her losing control of it. Vent's control over the spell is unrelated to Divine Punishment's natural range.

the only Angel class being in GRS is Fianma. As for Curtana. It's a truer expression of Telesma than any of GRS besides Fianma.

You were saying God's Right Seat. La Regina is not a GRS specific ability. It's an RCC ritual. Divine Punishment was never being nerfed. There was only Vento losing control over it due to the AIM effect on her body.

He could react well when Acqua simply changes the setting on Ascalon. It's more of surprise when he pulls out the second hidden blade and mace which made him slow down more than anything else.
Please see the quote from Index I have just listed. Divine Punishment has no range limit in the beginning, it has nothing to do with Vent losing control.

As for the queen's fleet, please do not forget the Rosario is a formula written by Vent. Without her, the fleet can't attack targets outside of Vanice. Vent even attune the spell to her self so that she can use the fleet just on her own. (although smaller in size).

As for Knight Leader's speed. By react I don't mean he can't respond to disable the weapon, but rather, he has to slow down and stay still to point at the weapon to disable them. In other words, he cannot dodge in that state and a stand still target. If he can maintain his acceleration while casting the spell, he could still have backed off from Aqua's reach even if he failed to disable the weapon.

On the other hand, Aqua in full power well have his super sonic speed back, and can be even faster by casting the moon spell and can attack without weapon. How is Knight Leader going to handle all that?
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Old 2011-04-17, 01:31   Link #9769
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
I think you miss the quote here... Divine punsihment was never restricted to just academy city, quote the exact moment on the novel its implied or told that she actually lost control over it.

And La Regina regen no matter how many ships are destroyed, and even so that's just to protect the main ship, not the actual attack.
She said it was difficult to target, meaning the intended recipient was Academy. And just when the AIM field gets thrown up and she starts bleeding, reports come in of people dropping worldwide. Not coincidence....

exact quote:

そっちの方にもう広がった、ってコトね。私の攻撃は狙いを決めるのが難しいから、なあ。

So it's spread out to there eh? My attack is not easy to target.

Implies she has to maintain some effort to focus it as well.

Yes but break the main ship and La Regina fails. I don't doubt the RN can do that.
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Old 2011-04-17, 01:37   Link #9770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Yes, Aqua can use rune, but what I mean isn't that he can't use it. But I mean those spells he pulls out when he is in full power while fighting Kanzaki where he controls water and the forces of the moon directly.



Please see the quote from Index I have just listed. Divine Punishment has no range limit in the beginning, it has nothing to do with Vent losing control.

As for the queen's fleet, please do not forget the Rosario is a formula written by Vent. Without her, the fleet can't attack targets outside of Vanice. Vent even attune the spell to her self so that she can use the fleet just on her own. (although smaller in size).

As for Knight Leader's speed. By react I don't mean he can't respond to disable the weapon, but rather, he has to slow down and stay still to point at the weapon to disable them. In other words, he cannot dodge in that state and a stand still target. If he can maintain his acceleration while casting the spell, he could still have backed off from Aqua's reach even if he failed to disable the weapon.

On the other hand, Aqua in full power well have his super sonic speed back, and can be even faster by casting the moon spell and can attack without weapon. How is Knight Leader going to handle all that?
The duel between Knight Leader and Acqua was fought at supersonic speed all the while. Knight Leader was invisible to Acqua when he moved. So if Acqua now is back to full health and using Mary's Mercy, he should be able to keep up with Knight Leader, with it then being a question of how much faster does the moon spell make him.
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Old 2011-04-17, 02:18   Link #9771
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"...It spread out even there, it said, eh. For it is difficult for my attack to decide its targets. But it's fine as long as Academy City...can be suppressed."

["Besides Japan, it seems we are looking at damage reports even from parts abroad. Furthermore, its influence is beginning to take effect in transportation schedules of airports, railways, and shipping—"]

"Haa..."
-----------------------------------------------------------
If you read the context it means "Divine pusnishment" is really loose when determining what to target, she never actually implies she lose control over it (and if you ask me she doesn't even control it), is basically a automatic trigger ability.
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Old 2011-04-17, 05:52   Link #9772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
"...It spread out even there, it said, eh. For it is difficult for my attack to decide its targets. But it's fine as long as Academy City...can be suppressed."

["Besides Japan, it seems we are looking at damage reports even from parts abroad. Furthermore, its influence is beginning to take effect in transportation schedules of airports, railways, and shippingó"]

"Haa..."
-----------------------------------------------------------
If you read the context it means "Divine pusnishment" is really loose when determining what to target, she never actually implies she lose control over it (and if you ask me she doesn't even control it), is basically a automatic trigger ability.
If it's auto then why does the cross on her tongue seem linked to it? It can be targeted as implied. Which due to its nature aparently demands some effort from her.
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Old 2011-04-17, 07:49   Link #9773
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Iirc she implies she can't control it in the novels when she was worried that the Vatican could've been under the Divine Punishment influence.
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Old 2011-04-17, 07:53   Link #9774
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Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Iirc she implies she can't control it in the novels when she was worried that the Vatican could've been under the Divine Punishment influence.
It felt more like she had lost control....else normally you would see her enemies dropping left and right in St Pietro's Basillica. And I can't imagine her to have been ultra popular back home...
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Old 2011-04-17, 07:57   Link #9775
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St.Pietro?

Its not that people never knew her, its that she was being broadcasted on the news so if Vatican city saw her it could be mixed feelings.
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Old 2011-04-17, 08:18   Link #9776
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Pietro=Italian for Peter
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Old 2011-04-17, 08:47   Link #9777
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I got the feeling Vento targeted her spell only within AC, but when she got injured by massive AIm her target spread to world wide level.
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Old 2011-04-17, 09:33   Link #9778
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The cross is the catalyst for it, and for her to be recognize as Jesus she must bear it. And it fits with Index description for the spell then again I am sure UK have places that can pretty much ignore the effects of DP, like when people weren't complety affected by Angel fall.
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Old 2011-04-17, 11:00   Link #9779
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Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
The cross is the catalyst for it, and for her to be recognize as Jesus she must bear it. And it fits with Index description for the spell then again I am sure UK have places that can pretty much ignore the effects of DP, like when people weren't complety affected by Angel fall.
Index indirectly pointed out that with high class defensive tools such as the walking church you'll be protected against Divine Punishment. Who knows, maybe the spell can also be protected in the same way that you can block Sheol Fear (put a specific magic barrier around yourself before coming into contact with the spell).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback
I got the feeling Vento targeted her spell only within AC, but when she got injured by massive AIm her target spread to world wide level.
From the start I got the impression that since Academy City spread the news about the incident along with Vento's identity (more like appearance), people from outside Academy City naturally started to be affected as people thought bad of her. It's not that Vento could control the spell, but instead is more of that Academy City intentionally "showed" the conditions necessary to be under the effect of Divine Punishment as to use the attack as propaganda.

The stake (piercing) and the cross were tools necessary to imitate the son of God and have access to the spell, that's one of the first thing that are pointed out, for what I remember.
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Old 2011-04-17, 21:05   Link #9780
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Part 10, Oriana/Touma team.
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