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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Ratings
Perfect 10 274 67.49%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 70 17.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 40 9.85%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 3.45%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 1.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.25%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.25%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-04-21, 16:13   Link #121
Dark Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
It also sounds like it is turning into a more standard MG world, so it's not so much a deconstruction, as a simple creation of yet-another-MG-series.
Which would be Kazumi Magica Manga?...
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:14   Link #122
Zettai Ryouiki
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I take it that the subs are already out? I mean, so many spoilers already and I am afraid of looking at them because I have been anxious about the last two episodes for a while. Sorry for being a noob at this but I just want to know.
I also stream my anime on sites which hosts them rather than downloading them, btw.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:14   Link #123
Angelmonster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
You're missing the point. I posted several times, wondering why she didn't ask, why no one asked, "Why don't we just wish all witches away?" I dunno about everyone else, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

It was meant to be a simple question, a starting point to finding out all the intricacies of the system, then thinking about how one could fix/change it.

And whatdoyaknow, that's exactly what happened. We know now why no limits were ever put on the wish system... because a wish was used for the solution. Which means, yes, all of this could have been solved in episode 2.

Edit: And sounds like a Mai Hime ending, heh. There were those who didn't like that kind of ending, so I wonder how they feel about this? It also sounds like it is turning into a more standard MG world, so it's not so much a deconstruction, as a simple creation of yet-another-MG-series.
The wish system could have solved everything at the very beginning, yes, but Madoka did not know the wish to wish for. Thus she could not have broken the system if she didn't know she needed to make a wish to break it. It was "perfect" in the beginning in her eyes, drawing her costume in he rnotebook and being a ~*~hero~*~.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:15   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
We know now why no limits were ever put on the wish system... because a wish was used for the solution. Which means, yes, all of this could have been solved in episode 2.
There are limits to the system,no girl in history before Madoka could have wished for this,the only reason she could is that somehow,as people had speculated,she became stronger as each timeline goes by so by the 5th time around she had reached a potential no girl had before.

Will have to wait for subs of ep11 for specifics
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:15   Link #125
wry bread
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Originally Posted by Dawnbringerz View Post

Spoiler for Madoka's Wish & New World's System:


With such near-flawless system, this is probably the best ending this show could get.
Ah, this clears up a lot of things I didn't understand! Thanks!
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:16   Link #126
Dark Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zettai Ryouiki View Post
I take it that the subs are already out? I mean, so many spoilers already and I am afraid of looking at them because I have been anxious about the last two episodes for a while. Sorry for being a noob at this but I just want to know.
I also stream my anime on sites which hosts them rather than downloading them, btw.
No subs yet these are just spoilers from people who've seen the live stream.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:16   Link #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
You're missing the point. I posted several times, wondering why she didn't ask, why no one asked, "Why don't we just wish all witches away?" I dunno about everyone else, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.
This wish would have failed, you know. The witches would have disappeared, the wishing MG would have then turned into a witch afterwards. Nothing solved at all.

I'm not quite sure why you're assuming this "all characters in the show are stupid, they should have listened to me to fix all in ep2" stance. It took much more knowledge than what was available at the time you claim things "could have been fixed".

Seriously, watch and understand the conclusion in detail before you toss judgment around. It was much more detailed and faceted than you make it sound.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:17   Link #128
Zettai Ryouiki
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Oh, I see. They must've been able to understand Japanese then.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:21   Link #129
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
A plot that could truly only work and be stretched into 12 episodes if the characters were dumb as bricks.
Wait! Stop right there!

Madoka and the others had no way of knowing any of this was possible from the very beginning. It took them this long to come up with the solution because this is something that could have never been done before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zettai Ryouiki View Post
Oh, I see. They must've been able to understand Japanese then.
Yes, Some of the people here can understand and even translate Japanese a little.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:21   Link #130
heppu
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at the very last of episode 12, C part

Spoiler for episode:

Last edited by heppu; 2011-04-21 at 16:32.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:24   Link #131
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Personally, I don't know how I feel about this ending. I like the eye candy, specially Homura at the end. But it's true this final is much more stereotypical "magical girl" than I was expecting. True, unlike Usagi, Madoka had to pay with her life for her little miracle, but other than that, it's Sailor Moon all over again at the end.

If there's a word I'd use to describe this ending, it'd be... "flashy"?

But whatever. Overall, I didn't hate it, and Homura is Homura, so that's ok!
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:25   Link #132
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To say that ending disappointed me was an understatement.

Of course, I will have another run with subs, but I doubt it will clear that disappointment: while Episode 11 was really slow at delivering points and characters development (a bit similar to ep4 in a slower way), Episode 12 was really the "easy answer".
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a deus ex machina, but it is close enough.

I didn't mind any type of ending, be it fully happy, bittersweet or grimdark. I actually wanted one that was appropriate and "conclusive", which wasn't the case for me.
At least, the emotional impact for Homura and Madoka's "farewell" was powerful enough, but the writing itself was really underwhelming in contrast to what we got previously.

I can't say if it is entirely because the ending didn't please me or because of the wait (or the major awe Episode 10 generated), but I can't exactly consider that ending to my taste to put it bluntly.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:28   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Which would be Kazumi Magica Manga?...
Oh, there's nothing wrong with having yet another standard MG series. The introduction of this MG series was a bit different than normal and variety is nice. I suppose I was just a bit interested in the potential of where it could have gone, heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelmonster View Post
The wish system could have solved everything at the very beginning, yes, but Madoka did not know the wish to wish for. Thus she could not have broken the system if she didn't know she needed to make a wish to break it. It was "perfect" in the beginning in her eyes, drawing her costume in he rnotebook and being a ~*~hero~*~.
I suppose there are people who don't question the candy they are given from a stranger. Perhaps it's just more my nature, though, to ask questions. I kinda thought someone would go: "you mean you have to keep risking your life fighting witches? Why don't we just wish them away or something so nobody needs to risk their life?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
This wish would have failed, you know. The witches would have disappeared, the wishing MG would have then turned into a witch afterwards. Nothing solved at all.
Perhaps it wasn't clear, but I didn't say outright wish for all witches to disappear. My point was to ask the question. And from there, ask more questions to understand the system. Once you have all the information (including that girls turn into witches), you would be where we are in episode 11/12; the ability to make a wish which would make things better.

There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. The latter can be corrected by getting information. The former means never bothering to think in the first place. But it's not like this is unique, either; I've watched a number of bad anime like Fafnir or Seikon where no really asks the reasons for why things go on, even though there are people right there who could explain.

Quote:
Seriously, watch and understand the conclusion in detail before you toss judgment around. It was much more detailed and faceted than you make it sound.
Oh, I'm quite prepared to see if the details make anything different. But the fact remains that Madoka could have done this back in episode 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
To say that ending disappointed me was an understatement.

Of course, I will have another run with subs, but I doubt it will clear that disappointment: while Episode 11 was really slow at delivering points and characters development (a bit similar to ep4 in a slower way), Episode 12 was really the "easy answer".
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a deus ex machina, but it is close enough..
I have to agree. It still felt a bit... cheap. When you have the power of God who can rewrite reality, then it takes all meaning out of any kind of struggle. The characters didn't fight for their ending; they had it handed to them.

Of course, that leaves another big plot hole: If Madoka could rewrite reality, then why do they still need to fight at all? But I suppose this wish was a huge step forward, and if wishes still exist, future MG's could probably further fix the issue.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:29   Link #134
Dark Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Personally, I don't know how I feel about this ending. I like the eye candy, specially Homura at the end. But it's true this final is much more stereotypical "magical girl" than I was expecting. True, unlike Usagi, Madoka had to pay with her life for her little miracle, but other than that, it's Sailor Moon all over again at the end.

If there's word I'd use to describe this ending, it'd be... "flashy"?

But whatever. Overall, I didn't hate it, and Homura is Homura, so that's ok!
Well not only did it cost Madoka her life the wish made also created a new problem that still needs to be dealt with and sadly Homura has to help clean it up.

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:34   Link #135
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I'd say that this is the most happy ending that the series can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Oh, I'm quite prepared to see if the details make anything different. But the fact remains that Madoka could have done this back in episode 2.
I think that you also forget that Homura wouldn't allow Madoka to do that. And I think that no one can make a wish this powerful in this new MG system. Unless someone can go back in time like Homura.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:34   Link #136
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Well not only did it cost Madoka her life the wish made also created a new problem that still needs to be dealt with and sadly Homura has to help clean it up.

Spoiler:
If you ever read Sailor Moon's manga, you'll know Usagi's "miracles" also had their draw backs, specially the last one, which is pretty much a time bomb of universal proportions.

So again, that part is pretty typical "magical girl". The only real differece is Madoka's death, but I really was expecting something a bit more subverty than that.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:36   Link #137
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Here is what I think in detail
http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl...069&attid=7858
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:36   Link #138
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Quote:
If Madoka could rewrite reality, then why do they still need to fight at all? But I suppose this wish was a huge step forward, and if wishes still exist, future MG's could probably further fix the issue.
The rewritten reality replaced the witches with another type of monsters that still need to be fought
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:39   Link #139
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My comments that I typed while watching. Ranting, rambling and F-bombs ahead.

Spoiler for both episodes together:


And now commentary about afterwards, when my thoughts are less scatterbrained;

Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:41   Link #140
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Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
I think that you also forget that Homura wouldn't allow Madoka to do that.
Nah Kyubey could always talk to Madoka telepathically.

The problem with Kaijo's argument is why would Madoka even ask for so much detail at episode 2? At episode 2 what Kyubey is offering is like a "nothing can go wrong" dream. Why would she even use her 1 and only wish for something like "getting rid of all the witches?" Any normal girl would think of fulfilling or acquiring something she wants not wish on breaking the system.

And episode 3 came after that and we all know what happened in that episode to scare Madoka away.
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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