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Old 2011-04-20, 23:58   Link #281
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
Suspension of disbelief is about accepting untrue things as true.
I watched (and thoroughly enjoyed) Highschool of the Dead believing that the zombie apocalypse is not just real, but also scientifically possible.

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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
Such pretentiousness is a result of attributing too much to the premise. Usage of economic terms like "financial district" and "prospect" may simply be shout-outs to real-life concepts; they can have nothing to do with the actual concept. It's just cool to name things after other things.
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
As with my above portion of this post, I think the pretentions are mistaken pretentions, like how Eva was never meant to contain any religious messages and only using christian terminology and symbols to look cool...or people on this side of the Pacific have Kanji tattooed onto them.
I don't wish to belabour the point, but I would say that's exactly what being pretentious means: to adopt something that seems cool, without understanding why it's cool. And I, like many people, find that distracting, if not outright irritating.

Symbolism is a widespread literary and dramatic device. It's clever only when it helps to develop a story's intended plot and message. But if it's there just for show, it becomes pretentious. Will [C] turn out that way? I hope not. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Makender View Post
I actually hope they keep the econ concepts to a relative minimum and just make it an underlying social commentary that Japan's economy is going to hell in a hand-basket. I already found myself becoming distracted by the "conflict of interests" problem. I watch anime to escape the drudgery of econ studies.
I agree and sympathise completely. A show that's too ham-fisted with its concepts is hardly going to be enjoyable.

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Ok...that's definitely going a far bit further than where Nakamura Kenji started (according to one interview anyway). I guess we'll see in coming episodes whether he also thought along the lines that you have.
Aw, shucks. I was hoping that someone who was involved in both Cowboy Bepop and Kuuchuu Buranko would go out a little bit further on a limb.

Still, we'll see how things turn out. And, yeah, classics never grow old. I'm still waiting for the AMV. I'd make it if I knew how.

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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
I'm finishing Calculus III this semester, so I shouldn't have much of a problem with that. I'll try out Varian's textbook first since you've mentioned it. Thanks a lot for the resources!
Good luck, but be warned: It's not for nothing that economics is called a dismal science!
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Old 2011-04-20, 23:59   Link #282
Decagon
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I thought the foreshortening of "entrepreneur" sounded like "entrée" in the sense that those saps are food for other people like them and whatever the hell the financial district is.
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Old 2011-04-21, 01:16   Link #283
winkel
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Loved Macroeconomics back in highschool, hated micro.
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Old 2011-04-21, 01:20   Link #284
Deconstructor
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I don't wish to belabour the point, but I would say that's exactly what being pretentious means: to adopt something that seems cool, without understanding why it's cool. And I, like many people, find that distracting, if not outright irritating.
Many people? I believe most viewers are unconcerned with how the concepts in this anime are named. Kimimaro could have been named Jesus, but I would not find his name pretentious at all. Lots of people are named Jesus and don't really care about the historical figure. It's just a name.

You would have to berate every single economic newbie in the audience for not knowing what an entrepreneur really is; we like the name because it sounds important. The few (you, for example) take offense because you have spent effort understanding what an entrepreneur really is. You don't like how it's being tossed around so arbitrarily with seemingly no meaning.

Yes, you have the right to get angry at this anime. But this is nothing - and I really mean nothing - compared to how angry scientists get when science fiction misuses the laws of physics. This anime doesn't even attempt to give a complete justification to any of the economic terms used. There's little room to mess up because there was never any explanation to begin with. Now when the writers actually use scientific laws and economic models as a basis for the entire plot, but fail miserably... oh dear. Pure rage.

Well, consider the extreme alternative. The writers go out of their way to explain complicated economic concepts, but the majority of viewers just want to see giant energy beams. These viewers get bored as Masakaki explains a difficult model of microeconomics in a few sentences. If he goes on too long, then the viewers will fall asleep.

It would be nice for this anime to use some basic economic concepts in creative ways. However, these concepts have to be translated into common English, must follow basic logic, and only take up a minute or so of screen time.

Quote:
Symbolism is a widespread literary and dramatic device. It's clever only when it helps to develop a story's intended plot and message. But if it's there just for show, it becomes pretentious. Will [C] turn out that way? I hope not. We'll see.
I don't like the dichotomy of separating symbolism into being either clever or pretentious. Sometimes, symbolism exists because it just fits into the overall setting. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
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Old 2011-04-21, 01:39   Link #285
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But you know some justification for the use of terms would be nice. At least show they've done their homework when they attach a term to something. And I don't mean drawn out explanations, but at least some exhibition of why this term makes sense to be attached to so-and-so. It would certainly make the series as a whole make a lot more sense and would (at least to me and perhaps all the other econoheads out there) make it a wholly more enjoyable experience as the background terms all tie together. If the terminology is a mess then it all seems like a joke.
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Old 2011-04-21, 04:47   Link #286
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We must fight! In an epic children's card game battle involving money. Money is everything and controls peoples' lives!

I wasn't too impressed by this first episode, it was way too jumpy and stuff; didn't like most of the dialogue or many of the character designs. My favorite part was when he started having that bizarre conversation with the Tim Burton character. He is totally the devil. I guess I'll keep watching, maybe stuff will make more sense next episode.
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Old 2011-04-21, 07:39   Link #287
sapphire-pyro
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I really love the first episode and I hope the second episode will be just as good (or better).

Synopsis of the second episode is already up at the official site, by the way. The art in the teaser screencaps don't look nice though....

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I don't wish to belabour the point, but I would say that's exactly what being pretentious means: to adopt something that seems cool, without understanding why it's cool. And I, like many people, find that distracting, if not outright irritating.
Eh? But not all shows are really adopting what they seem to be adopting, I believe.
I think it depends on the viewer's background/knowledge and interpretation (unless the creators or the show had been specific on them).
People won't even notice the Christian references if they're not familiar with the religion in the first place. And I doubt Eva has religion as its main theme at all (Hmm... I don't remember much of its story anymore so I could be wrong. But from what I remember, it doesn't really involve religion related matters much).

And if a writer has to make references for the sake of using a certain term to his story, it's like limiting what his story could cover. Like he can't make a love story with the couple named Adam and Eve if he won't make references to Genesis

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Many people? I believe most viewers are unconcerned with how the concepts in this anime are named.
Seconding this.

I think most people don't even care about the concepts, symbolisms, references, deep meanings, etc. in a show.
As long as the show's visually appealing or it satisfies one's bias/fetishes, that's enough to please many viewers.

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Originally Posted by Makender View Post
But you know some justification for the use of terms would be nice. At least show they've done their homework when they attach a term to something. And I don't mean drawn out explanations, but at least some exhibition of why this term makes sense to be attached to so-and-so. It would certainly make the series as a whole make a lot more sense and would (at least to me and perhaps all the other econoheads out there) make it a wholly more enjoyable experience as the background terms all tie together. If the terminology is a mess then it all seems like a joke.
It's nice indeed (I really love it when a show does that~), but at times the use of terms/symbolisms depends on how the viewer interprets them. So a term, if not explained directly by the show, can make sense to one viewer but not to another. I mean, like with "Entrepreneur", some people think the show isn't using the term with justice, but there are some that think otherwise.
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Old 2011-04-21, 14:58   Link #288
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I was all kinds of ready to jump in and follow this, but I was definitely not expecting an opening episode that confusing and choppily edited. I sort of grasp the bare essentials of what was going on now that I've read about the series concept, but honestly there was no reason that needed to be anywhere near that baffling such that after watching it twice I still had little clue as to what went on.

I'll probably stick around for at least another episode just to see if this show finds it's footing, but I won't stick around for much longer after that if it is still has the same bizarre pacing and exposition of the first episode.
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Old 2011-04-21, 16:26   Link #289
orion
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Originally Posted by sapphire-pyro View Post

Seconding this.

I think most people don't even care about the concepts, symbolisms, references, deep meanings, etc. in a show.
As long as the show's visually appealing or it satisfies one's bias/fetishes, that's enough to please many viewers.
Plus, I really don't think this was made for economics and business majors so it's prob going to be on a level that most people can understand.

I bet it's going to be on the level of TM 8.0 where we were guessing what the little brother and big sister had but other people not medically knowledgeable were able to follow along.
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Old 2011-04-21, 20:46   Link #290
serenade_beta
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Spoiler for ep2:
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Old 2011-04-21, 21:30   Link #291
orion
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Spoiler for ep2:
Spoiler for ep.2:
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Old 2011-04-21, 21:47   Link #292
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Spoiler for ep.2:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-04-21, 21:58   Link #293
sapphire-pyro
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Haha, so much for the love triangle discussion last week... barely any romance in the latest episode, hehe.
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Spoiler for ep.2:
Spoiler for episode 2:
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Old 2011-04-21, 23:42   Link #294
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Old 2011-04-22, 00:10   Link #295
Hooves
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Spoiler for Ep 2:
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Old 2011-04-22, 00:25   Link #296
Asterisk
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Dammn I wanna join the Financial District, getting 400k from one fight =D.
Overall the concept of the show has quite a lot of potential so I hope it doesn't decline into a MOTW boredom fest.
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Old 2011-04-22, 00:32   Link #297
Tsuyukusa
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I enjoyed it, the show looks like a winner to me. My only complaints are the character designs of some of the extras (still irks me) and the overall jumpiness in both story and action direction.
Overall though, I liked it quite a bit. It looks to have potential for a video game counterpart.
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Old 2011-04-22, 01:28   Link #298
mysterious
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I lol when Mashyu says she is rehab and actually doing some kind of exercises. All the other shows, magic creatures just got auto heal (if my memories is right). Even though we are both econ students, yet I am stuck with my boring dry econ book instead of a hot servant! (at least, I dont have to fear for my life though ).
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Old 2011-04-22, 02:09   Link #299
Lumir
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Interesting. Im enjoying this show for what it has presented so far. Kinda laughable that someones entire future is based on a card/servant fight. I wonder if the more money you use the more powerful your servant becomes.

Will fallow this show and Deadman wonderland.
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Old 2011-04-22, 02:18   Link #300
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Interesting. Im enjoying this show for what it has presented so far. Kinda laughable that someones entire future is based on a card/servant fight. I wonder if the more money you use the more powerful your servant becomes.

Will fallow this show and Deadman wonderland.
It does seem like that's how it works. The more money you have the more you can 'invest' in an attack against your opponent. Though it probably also ties into the kind of asset you are paired up with. Think with just about anyone else that our lead would have been in serious trouble.
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