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Old 2011-04-18, 22:31   Link #41
Reckoner
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One thing I think a lot of you guys are forgetting is that one of the main uses of the PS3 to Sony was to promote blue ray and I would say that was a major success. Sony won the format war after all.

This time around, they don't have to worry about their system's price getting jacked up in cost by stubbornly placing new technology in it.

As for Nintendo's next system... I really don't feel like they can capture the hardcore market anymore. The ending years of the Gamecube and the Wii pretty much put themselves into a corner. They lost that base and I think its foolish of them from a business perspective to bet too much on trying to recapture that fanbase.
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Old 2011-04-18, 22:46   Link #42
SOGESNAKE
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Well, the discussion here is pretty intruiging, so I thought I'd post up Penny Arcade's thoughts on the matter~

Spoiler for Wii2:
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Old 2011-04-19, 08:01   Link #43
Bonta Kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
One thing I think a lot of you guys are forgetting is that one of the main uses of the PS3 to Sony was to promote blue ray and I would say that was a major success. Sony won the format war after all.

This time around, they don't have to worry about their system's price getting jacked up in cost by stubbornly placing new technology in it.
Ahh the format war, I remember all my friends were saying that 360 would win with the HD cause Blu-ray was unheard of and too expensive(some even got the HD-drive(£100 down the drain))I was the only one that said Sony would win with the Blu-ray.
Good times gloating about that

If a blu-ray drive is thrown in I would expect prices to be on the steep side but it is hard seeing Nintendo do that, they really are more about just gaming and not much else.
But then thats a problem these days as for something like a console, people expect it to do other stuff. A new console these days that couldn't even play a DVD movie isn't all that great tbh.
And I don't really care for the whole "Oh but it's a gaming console, it's supposed to be used for gaming" screw that, thats the thinking of yesteryear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
As for Nintendo's next system... I really don't feel like they can capture the hardcore market anymore. The ending years of the Gamecube and the Wii pretty much put themselves into a corner. They lost that base and I think its foolish of them from a business perspective to bet too much on trying to recapture that fanbase.
Yea pretty much the problem here, Nintendo will have one hell of a hard time trying to get into the HC market and I doubt they really could anyway.
Plus even if they come up with a good online system, most people will probably still prefer LIVE and PSN.

Still I have no doubts, this new consloe will be a success, Americans love Nintendo and they will most likely buy this regardless.
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Old 2011-04-19, 08:17   Link #44
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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I have no trouble believing that Nintendo could make a new game system that contain Blu Ray while still both make a profit every sale and be affordable.

The advantage of coming later than the other two is that Nintendo doesn't need much research costs to get Blu Ray working. The tech is essentially perfected now and require no experimentation. The only question is how advanced Nintendo wants to go with the hardware. Probably only just advanced enough to be better than the competitors, but not too complicated as to make game coding difficult.

Nintendo doesn't care if their hardware going out of date, so they don't have to design the successor to be supreme for 10 years or anything like what Sony aimed for with PS3. Wii is only 6 years old after all.

Throw in better online integration and interactions with 3DS, and I think Nintendo would be all set. 3DS was cutting edge and risky; I think Nintendo would want to take it easy with the new console.
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Old 2011-04-19, 08:21   Link #45
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Angelic Cross View Post
Oh for. . .listen, the strategy Nintendo used for the Wii's success was based on answering two things:

1) What market was being underserved by the industry?
2) How can we differentiate ourselves in a cost-effective manner so that we make our competitors irrelevant?
#2 doesn't make sense since their competition isn't irrelevant and in addition to outselling them (something Nintendo, Sega and MS didn't come close to last gen) has dominated 3rd party software.

Companies aren't just making games for the PS360 because it's HD and more powerful, it's because something like Mass Effect 3 has a bigger userbase to sell to on those two systems than it would on the Wii itself. Why do you think there's no real 3rd party exclusive games anymore for either the ps3 or 360? 103 million is better than 50 million or 53 and it's also better than 84 million, especially considering the userbase that 84 million consists of.

Quote:
For this generation, their answers were the non-gaming public and motion-based games, and that went well for them. But if they are continuing the same plan, then Nintendo isn't going to focus on motion gaming again. With Move and Kinect that space is now competitive and has established rules. Yes, the new console is most likely still going to have motion controls, but, if they continue with the same strategy they used for the Wii and the DS, that is no longer going to be the main selling point of the successor console. In such a plan, Kinect and Move will be irrelevant.
Since Kinect the 360 has easily outsold the Wii in America which is the Wii's best performing area. While still motion controls it's different enough from the Wii to still be relevant for a long time. Especially when it's much cheaper to get than a new Nintendo console in late 2012, and even if a new fad comes in it's not like it will kill off the sales of existing items in the first place. I would say something like I bet the DS outsells the 3ds this year from March onwards in america but I'm not sure on the production levels of the DS....

The DS and Wii like them or not were innovative, the 3DS and from the rumors Project Cafe are not on the same level. Arrogance cost Nintendo a long way back as it did Sony, could history be repeating itself?

Quote:
As for Nintendo's next system... I really don't feel like they can capture the hardcore market anymore. The ending years of the Gamecube and the Wii pretty much put themselves into a corner. They lost that base and I think its foolish of them from a business perspective to bet too much on trying to recapture that fanbase.
Agreed, this move could end up costing them dearly. I guess they're sick of seeing all these AAA 3rd party games going to MS and Sony all the damn time

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-04-19 at 14:00.
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Old 2011-04-19, 11:40   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
If a blu-ray drive is thrown in I would expect prices to be on the steep side but it is hard seeing Nintendo do that, they really are more about just gaming and not much else.
But then thats a problem these days as for something like a console, people expect it to do other stuff. A new console these days that couldn't even play a DVD movie isn't all that great tbh.
And I don't really care for the whole "Oh but it's a gaming console, it's supposed to be used for gaming" screw that, thats the thinking of yesteryear.
It is highly unlikely nintendo will throw in a blu-ray drive. Just like the GCN and Wii, panasonic will probably deliver a customised drive, based on blue laser technology, to avoid licensing fees.
What the ps3, and ps2, taught me is not to use consoles for movie playback, it will break the drive, just use a usb stick.

Quote:
Yea pretty much the problem here, Nintendo will have one hell of a hard time trying to get into the HC market and I doubt they really could anyway.
Plus even if they come up with a good online system, most people will probably still prefer LIVE and PSN.

Still I have no doubts, this new console will be a success, Americans love Nintendo and they will most likely buy this regardless.
I think nintendo isn't really going for the so called core market, since most core gamers have all current gen console anyways. The problem for big N is to attract consumers to buy games, 3rd party ones specifically. Giving devs the ability to port their games for cheap on a higher speced system, might do the trick. But the main selling point will still be nintendo's own games. Just have a look at the 3DS and the sales numbers. No proper nintendo games, low sales numbers.
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Old 2011-04-19, 13:25   Link #47
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lets change the subject for moment.

so wii 2 controller have touch screen. this can be used just like ds second screen (HUD, Map, inventory, etc)

what interesting is sony or even microsoft (to certain extend even apple) can also do this sort of trick. sony can used NGP as controller and microsoft can used WP7.

this probably interesting battle field after motion control wars
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Old 2011-04-19, 14:04   Link #48
Daniel E.
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Ok guys, can we please drop the jabs already? Some people are taking things a little too personal now and things are only going to gets worse if this continues.
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Old 2011-04-19, 15:51   Link #49
Angelic Cross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
#2 doesn't make sense since their competition isn't irrelevant and in addition to outselling them (something Nintendo, Sega and MS didn't come close to last gen) has dominated 3rd party software.
Irrelevancy in this case means that the old values where the industry competes in (in this case the [TIM ALLEN]"More power and graphics arr arr arr"[/TIM ALLEN] value) becomes "just another expected feature" and a new value (motion gaming and non-core gaming) creates a new arena in the market that the competitors will have to play follow the leader with. And you can't say that it wasn't successful. For all you keep pointing out that Kinect's outsold the Wii in NA, that doesn't erase the fact that it's still the top selling home console this generation. And Nintendo did pretty much create the "rules" of the new business arena (like using "lifestyle" marketing for the games).

In any case, the business plan that Nintendo should be following calls for abandoning the the new market arena that was created once the competition enters and repeating step one by finding something else. How successful that is depends on how well they did their market research.

Quote:
Since Kinect the 360 has easily outsold the Wii in America which is the Wii's best performing area. While still motion controls it's different enough from the Wii to still be relevant for a long time.
Relevant? Well, in terms of it being another bullet point that's expected for newer consoles. Like graphics and color. But in the end motion gaming is now a shrinking pie for the companies to fight over, much like the graphics and horsepower race. Nintendo wants to make a new pie that they can hold onto exclusively for a time.

Quote:
Especially when it's much cheaper to get than a new Nintendo console in late 2012, and even if a new fad comes in it's not like it will kill off the sales of existing items in the first place.
What does killing off sales of previous generations have to do with it? All the feature has to do is to put the product on top against the current generation of competitors (also, I don't know if that's intentional but the later part of the above sentence sounds a bit hypocritical since your statements of Kinect outselling Wii seems to imply the same "killing off sales of existing items" deal).

Quote:
I would say something like I bet the DS outsells the 3ds this year from March onwards in america but I'm not sure on the production levels of the DS....
Of course it'll outsell the 3DS for a period. The GBA outsold the DS for a long while. The Wii's selling gangbusters out of the gate was an oddity not even Nintendo expected.

Quote:
The DS and Wii like them or not were innovative, the 3DS and from the rumors Project Cafe are not on the same level.
Uh huh. You do realize that the DS was launched during the holiday period (Nintendo's best selling time) and that the 3DS launched in March (a dead period for sales usually for Nintendo), yet it only managed to sell slightly less than the DS. And this time the new portable doesn't even have a Mario game (port or not) to help sales.

You're jumping to conclusions too early. The second half of your statement is pretty much a word for word repeat of a post I read on Gamefaqs before the DS started selling like crazy. Just replace "3DS" with "DS."
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Old 2011-04-20, 12:36   Link #50
tkdtiger
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To be fair though one of the Sony won the blue ray battle was because the kept saying the won ...even though studies were actually showing the lead to be minimal at best...got to give Sony credit for their marketing
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Old 2011-04-20, 12:42   Link #51
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Spoiler for pic:
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Old 2011-04-20, 16:59   Link #52
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7
Not many 3rd party titles on Wii sold very well. Then again, 3rd parties have put mostly shit on the Wii.
Third-party titles have sold well on the Wii, actually. Just not traditional titles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun
A new console these days that couldn't even play a DVD movie isn't all that great tbh.
And I don't really care for the whole "Oh but it's a gaming console, it's supposed to be used for gaming" screw that, thats the thinking of yesteryear.
No it isn't. The Wii did fine despite the lack of DVD playback, and it's silly to want movie playback with everything that has a DVD drive. People also appreciate simplicity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Companies aren't just making games for the PS360 because it's HD and more powerful, it's because something like Mass Effect 3 has a bigger userbase to sell to on those two systems than it would on the Wii itself.
The companies are risk-averse and used to making traditional games, which don't sell on Wii but do on "PS360". It's as simple as that.
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Old 2011-04-21, 01:49   Link #53
Urzu 7
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Some interesting things from a Q&A with IGN.


http://wii.ign.com/articles/116/1163116p1.html


Quote:
Q: Do you think Nintendo is ditching motion controls? - EvilTw1n

A: Nope. Project Cafe is backwards compatible with Wii games and, from what I understand, Wii Remotes. And the Cafe Remote is rumored to have some sort of gyroscope as well. I don't know if we'll see motion control that's exactly like Wii, but there will be something.
Quote:
Q: Do you think Cafe will be the first of a next generation of consoles or will it merely match the 360 and the PS3. - LindandSamus4Ever

A: I've been told by reliable sources it's "significantly" more powerful than the current generation. How much is "significant" is a bit of a judgment call, so we'll see how that shakes out. I suspect we'll see a lot of Project Cafe software looking similar to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 software since most titles will simply port across all three platforms. We'll see how much Nintendo can stand out in those types of situations. Perhaps that's the idea though – have everything the competition has plus the massive, powerful library of Nintendo-owned characters. That certainly seems smart to me.
Quote:
Q: Are we only getting half the picture with this built-in screen controller? What I mean to say is, is this 6" screen controller the main input device for the system or is it possible we're just hearing about the next gen version of the Classic Controller? – ZanetheWise

A: No, this is the primary controller we're hearing about. I'm a bit curious if it can somehow replicate all functionality of a GameCube and/or Wii controller on its own or if Nintendo wants us to keep buying all of those controllers for older games. My money would be on that strategy, but who knows.
Quote:
Q: If the Wii 2 is really launching in late 2012 and is being announced this June, how will we survive the drought of games until the Wii 2's launch? - Secret_Tunnel

A: Two points on this. First, I'm hearing that Nintendo would love to launch in Q1 or Q2 2012 if at all possible. So late 2012 does seem a bit out of the picture… software development pending.
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Old 2011-04-21, 02:31   Link #54
paladinenvec
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
One thing I think a lot of you guys are forgetting is that one of the main uses of the PS3 to Sony was to promote blue ray and I would say that was a major success. Sony won the format war after all.

This time around, they don't have to worry about their system's price getting jacked up in cost by stubbornly placing new technology in it.

As for Nintendo's next system... I really don't feel like they can capture the hardcore market anymore. The ending years of the Gamecube and the Wii pretty much put themselves into a corner. They lost that base and I think its foolish of them from a business perspective to bet too much on trying to recapture that fanbase.
^This
Nintendo pretty much scare me away from buying a wii with "Wii Music" and other shitty games in a presentation of a past E3.
But anyway i guess that as always i'll see the games first, if there is enough games that are likeable to me then i'll buy the "project Cafe"...

Last edited by paladinenvec; 2011-04-21 at 04:47.
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Old 2011-04-21, 17:00   Link #55
Urzu 7
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Some more details from IGN. Still nothing official, so take this with a bit more than a grain of salt, I suppose.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1163325p1.html

Quote:
- Retail cost between $350-400
- Manufacturing to begin this Oct.-Nov. with Winter as the earliest release, but likely to wait until 2012 to build up stock
- Based on revamped version of AMD's R700 (that is the 4000 series, so maybe something based on the Radeon 4850 or 4870 but revamped)
- custom-built triple-core IBM PowerPC chipset, clocked higher than that of 360
- potential for stereoscopic 3D
- In terms of the design of the console itself, the overall size will be comparable to that of the original Xbox 360 and the system is likely to resemble a modernized version of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES)
- given the power of the system, could feasibly provide a virtualized console for each individual unit
- "Stream" is being considered as a final name
- Nintendo, of course, declined comment

As the IGN article points out, that GPU would outperform the PS3s GPU, and by quite a good bit, I might add.

I'm get excited about this system. It looks like Nintendo just might release an HD console that is actually a step up or two from the competition, instead of something just as powerful as the XBox 360 and nothing more. We'll see what they reveal at E3. E3 shall be great this year.
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Old 2011-04-22, 03:33   Link #56
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Some more details from IGN. Still nothing official, so take this with a bit more than a grain of salt, I suppose.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1163325p1.html




As the IGN article points out, that GPU would outperform the PS3s GPU, and by quite a good bit, I might add.
The PS3 GPU already technically weaker than 360 GPU. so its expected

it's CPU that i interested with. seem used modified 360 which seem slightly powerful. however there still chance that ps3 still more powerful in CPU side. (but wii 2 overall still more powerful than 6 years old system)

one weakness is that nintendo approach Dreamcast strategy (along even controller on the screen.) where seem it awesome in first place however it quickly get old. not to mention it expensive that PROBABLY will get price cut when 8 th generation start.

so it's depend on the power. much more powerful than current gen? ps3/360 probably swap console. slightly? not a chance
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Old 2011-04-22, 05:09   Link #57
Sides
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
it's CPU that i interested with. seem used modified 360 which seem slightly powerful. however there still chance that ps3 still more powerful in CPU side. (but wii 2 overall still more powerful than 6 years old system)
I reckon most people are banking that the cpu used would be a something from the ibm's powerpc A2 line. The 970 series seems unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
one weakness is that nintendo approach Dreamcast strategy (along even controller on the screen.) where seem it awesome in first place however it quickly get old. not to mention it expensive that PROBABLY will get price cut when 8 th generation start.

so it's depend on the power. much more powerful than current gen? ps3/360 probably swap console. slightly? not a chance
If you put in perspective, the next 8th gen microsoft and sony console have only 2-3 years until the 9th gen nintendo arrives. If both sony and microsoft are still pushing for the lastest technology with their next consoles, nintendo will always have the advantage to use proven technology, which makes components for them less expensive, i.e. WiFi chip, blu-ray technology, hdmi aso. If rumour are true, and sony and MS are not planing to release their next machine until 2014, then the N6 will probably reaches it peak concerning software development in 2014.
Dreamcast's failure had more to do, bad management and marketing. MS proved that an earlier release can be successful, with the 360. But yeah, just like you have pointed out it depends on how dated it will look compared to the competition, when they launch their machines. What nintendo has to deliver is a system that is easy to program on that even the monkeys from **** know how to deal with it.
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Old 2011-04-22, 05:50   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Sides View Post


If you put in perspective, the next 8th gen microsoft and sony console have only 2-3 years until the 9th gen nintendo arrives. If both sony and microsoft are still pushing for the lastest technology with their next consoles, nintendo will always have the advantage to use proven technology, which makes components for them less expensive, i.e. WiFi chip, blu-ray technology, hdmi aso. If rumour are true, and sony and MS are not planing to release their next machine until 2014, then the N6 will probably reaches it peak concerning software development in 2014.
Dreamcast's failure had more to do, bad management and marketing. MS proved that an earlier release can be successful, with the 360. But yeah, just like you have pointed out it depends on how dated it will look compared to the competition, when they launch their machines. What nintendo has to deliver is a system that is easy to program on that even the monkeys from **** know how to deal with it.
well the whole question is what generation is wii2? is it powerful enough for ps3/360 fanbase to jump over. if it's not it only sell around 10-20 before 8th generation start where wii 2 cannot play that generation game. which is D.O.A
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Old 2011-04-22, 08:45   Link #59
Sides
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well the whole question is what generation is wii2? is it powerful enough for ps3/360 fanbase to jump over. if it's not it only sell around 10-20 before 8th generation start where wii 2 cannot play that generation game. which is D.O.A
The N6 would be 8th gen. If it offers higher frame rate, better IQ and HUD free experience, provided that the screen rumour is true, i can see devoted gamers jumping ship. You see ps3, 360 and wii prices dropping like flies these days, which kind of signals that this gen is already dead. The N6 only needs to become the lead platform for multiplatform games to stay on the ball. The only way for this to happen is create a platform that allows devs to port their engines easily, meaning hardware with OpenGL support would be beneficial. This will allow devs to use the N6 as step to upgrade their engines until the other 8th gens arrive, and then the whole process repeats itself, only this time it is the other way around.
Remember it is actually MS and sony who are delaying the 8th gen, so technically you can say that MS/Sony's next consoles would be 9th gen and the N7 a 10th gen system, aso.

But on the other hand we have the NGP coming up, which could offer a similar experience, either on its own, if sony decides to throw in a hdmi port or in conjunction with ps3.
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Old 2011-04-22, 08:50   Link #60
Kyero Fox
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You guys hear about the dreamcast 2........?
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