AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-04-22, 16:32   Link #1221
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Does not change my opinion that the second commentary is totally unnecesary.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2011-04-22, 18:02   Link #1222
SS13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Does not change my opinion that the second commentary is totally unnecesary.
Oh boy, it was just a funny guess! Other characters have their flaws, too: Sheryl's ego in the beginning is bigger than DE blast radius, and Alto is also extremely impulsive. It's just that Ranka's unwillingness to see danger is a stark contrast to Sheryl's silent despair.
SS13 is offline  
Old 2011-04-22, 18:06   Link #1223
karice67
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under ^^
Just a bit on the awesomeness of Sheryl in ep.24:

This is probably one of my favourite scenes in the series, because it shows just how selfless Sheryl is. So, reposting AlaAlba's translation from the novel thread, lightly edited.

Spoiler for length:


======

@magnus

If I didn't like translating AxS, I wouldn't work on things like the above (though I do prefer to, shall we say, take away 'weapons' rather than provide more).

I just find it incredibly amusing, and somewhat hypocritical, how your reaction to 'the word of God' (and sometimes whether you accept it or not) differs depending on whether what they say supports your opinion about the series.

On another note, wrt something you raised about ep.23...I can't find anything specific on how Grace managed to get hold of Ranka after the Vajra took her in episode 23. The most plausible explanation seems to be that Grace has Fold Quartz implants, which allowed her establish a connection with Ranka, leading on what happens in 24 and 25...


@wisteria

As "The Scrappy" is defined on TV Tropes as having a "hatedom" instead of a fandom, I personally think it might be better not to use that term.
__________________



You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.



"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes



Last edited by karice67; 2011-04-22 at 18:39.
karice67 is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 01:31   Link #1224
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
If I didn't like translating AxS, I wouldn't work on things like the above (though I do prefer to, shall we say, take away 'weapons' rather than provide more).

I just find it incredibly amusing, and somewhat hypocritical, how your reaction to 'the word of God' (and sometimes whether you accept it or not) differs depending on whether what they say supports your opinion about the series.
Well, excuse the hell out of me if I disagree with opinions raised by the writers ( the seiyuu don't even count with me, they are just employees without decision power. Their opinions are only just as valid as ours. And given how clueless they sound in about every episode commentary, probably even less. ).

There's a damn big difference between an official sourcebook which tells you flat-out that "Sheryl and Alto weren't living together" and "Yoshino calling Alto indecisive" in a way which I do not see reflected in Altos actions. Hipocrisy doesn't even enter into it. One is a newly discovered series fact, the other is how a writer thought he wrote Alto.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 04:41   Link #1225
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
ANYWAY, let's start this weeks run-down.

- Say, what exactly did make the Vajra go berserk on the 117th? Rankas song making them horny?

- I never got that picture of the big red Vajra grappling a whole battleship... was that a "megalord" Victor variant?

- Wow, Ranka is easily manipulated.

- I am still kinda thrown that Ozma didn't seem to recognize Gallia IV when Sheryl, Alto and Ranka first went there...

- Phew, Grace really is into long-time plans. And it almost worked perfectly, too, with her trying to turn Sheryl and Ranka against each other.

- And Captain Wilder makes his move.

- I still wonder if Sheryl will ever know, in the TV-universe, that she is the granddaughter of Mao. The letter Cathy recovered doesn't spell it out, but maybe Cathy or Ozma will make the connection one day.

- In any case, it is good to see Cathy happy, while being with Ozma. Same for him.

- Admiral Perry FTW! I hoped they'd show more of the guy, seeing how he was in the position Max was in for Macross 7. Alas, the focus wasn't on the military this time around.

- Ugh, did the Meltrans boobs really have to be that oversized?

- Hrmpf. Not happy about Luca's "Shinji"-moment here. He never was one of my favourite characters, but that is really morally questionable.

- You know, even with all the evil bastardry Leon got up to during the series, it is hard to feel that upset with him about trying to lead the Frontier fleet to a good destination.

- "It won't be long until I meet you"? Well, give it up for double meanings, Mr. Bilrer.

- And we get to the single best directed scene in the entire series. Every moment is pitch perfect and can be interpreted to have hidden meanings.

- The animation also is excellent, showing exactly how Sheryl is feeling, while still giving Alto enough emotional distance in his facial expression to maintain that slight edge of "what exactly is he telling Sheryl about his feelings?".

- Weak analogy, Alto, really. You just should have told her "I love you!" and it would have worked much better.

- "Let's leave the lover's business until later" works much better than many other translations I've seen.

- And for all those Ranka-fans who said back then "He isn't even hugging her back! She's so desperate, trololol!", kindly look where his arms are in that panorama shot. Around Sheryl, that is where they are!

- Again, pitch perfect delivery by the seiyuus on all aspects.

- LOVE that shot of Sheryl squaring her shoulders and gathering the strength to send Alto on his way.

- Damn, this gets me everytime. Yeah, we all won't find a good person like you that easily.

- Now, after the intermission, Sheryl prepares to give it all, to sing until she drops dead.

- A good thing that force-field didn't fail at the exact wrong moment.

- I like that the writers chose to end the Alto/Ranzo conflict in this one simple scene, which said all that needed to be said.

- And the following shot, with the fleet racing towards the planet, the fighters in front and Battle Frontier transforming in the background also is one I sometimes go back to watching. Although it is only a short moment, it looks extremely good and is a type of shot I'd love to see in the next sci-fi movie which shows large scale space fleet combat.

- I am a bit sad that the two wingmen of Alto won't survive the next episode... what little personality they could show was pretty okay.

- I'd rather not get into the logistics on how Battle Galaxy got into the Vajra frontlines and wasn't noticed at all by the Frontier fleet...

- Damn, Admiral Perry was so upset he cloned himself to express his outrage!

- Again, I'd rather not get into the logistics how Grace advanced to the queen. There was certainly a lot of "handwavium" used in the last three episodes.

- Hm, between all the drama of the last scenes... Alto being hit warrants a mention over the loudspeaker system of Battle Frontier? He certainly has risen in importance...

- What I really didn't like was the next episode just cutting out Sheryl's desperate scream... it really stole a good bit of drama out the beginning of what we'll get into next week.

- And, honestly, anybody really thought Alto was dead when the episode just aired?
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 05:42   Link #1226
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- I still wonder if Sheryl will ever know, in the TV-universe, that she is the granddaughter of Mao. The letter Cathy recovered doesn't spell it out, but maybe Cathy or Ozma will make the connection one day.
Was it ever stated in the series that she didn't remember this little fact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- Damn, this gets me everytime. Yeah, we all won't find a good person like you that easily.
You're not alone in that sentiment, mate. That whole scene gets me every single time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- And, honestly, anybody really thought Alto was dead when the episode just aired?
I didn't, even though I wouldn't put it past them to actually do it.
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!


Last edited by BetoJR; 2011-04-23 at 09:28.
BetoJR is online now  
Old 2011-04-23, 05:49   Link #1227
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Was it ever stated in the series that she didn't remember this little fact?
Well, we know she doesn't even remember the face of her mother. And one would think that it would be mentioned at least once if she knew her true ancestry.
Spoiler for movie spoiler:
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:01   Link #1228
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- You know, even with all the evil bastardry Leon got up to during the series, it is hard to feel that upset with him about trying to lead the Frontier fleet to a good destination.
Well, his ways how to reach the destion is questionable. It is similar to Adolf Hitler in WWII when he declared the Arians are the peak and pure of all human races. This is now rough said.

In Macross he puts the humanoid race over the Vajra.

Some final words on this:
Quote:
Well, excuse the hell out of me if I disagree with opinions raised by the writers ( the seiyuu don't even count with me, they are just employees without decision power. Their opinions are only just as valid as ours. And given how clueless they sound in about every episode commentary, probably even less. ).
The power of the Seiyuus are their voice and their expressed emotions. If they do not agree with the emotions of the character, they can go to the director and ask if the role they play/speak is correct or if they have concerns.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:25   Link #1229
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Well, his ways how to reach the destion is questionable. It is similar to Adolf Hitler in WWII when he declared the Arians are the peak and pure of all human races. This is now rough said.

In Macross he puts the humanoid race over the Vajra.
Which, to the best of his information at that time, were just trying to kill all humans. The comparison to WWII doesn't hold much water, since it was the Vajra who relentlessly attacked Frontier.

That the fanaticism displayed by the pilots from Frontier in this episode is not meant to be commendable is pretty clear, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
The power of the Seiyuus are their voice and their expressed emotions. If they do not agree with the emotions of the character, they can go to the director and ask if the role they play/speak is correct or if they have concerns.
Sure. They get directions on how to play their characters, like every actor. That doesn't make them scholars on their motivations and inner desires. It differs from actor to actor, though, Yuichi Nakamura seemed to have a good handle on Alto, as did Aya Endo on Sheryl.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:27   Link #1230
karice67
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
There's a damn big difference between an official sourcebook which tells you flat-out that "Sheryl and Alto weren't living together" and "Yoshino calling Alto indecisive" in a way which I do not see reflected in Altos actions. Hipocrisy doesn't even enter into it. One is a newly discovered series fact, the other is how a writer thought he wrote Alto.
Since you keep talking about "Yoshino calling Alto indecisive", I've been wondering - where exactly did he do that?

Is this one of the interviews in questions? Either way, are there others?
__________________



You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.



"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes


karice67 is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:36   Link #1231
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Since you keep talking about "Yoshino calling Alto indecisive", I've been wondering - where exactly did he do that?

Is this one of the interviews in questions? Either way, are there others?
No, that was the one. I am not sure how "doesn't have much self-awareness. Unreflective and a little obnoxious" mutated into "indecisiveness", but I guess it was brought up in discussions of the months past, got compressed into that one word and that was how it became the topic of discussion.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:46   Link #1232
karice67
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
No, that was the one. I am not sure how "doesn't have much self-awareness. Unreflective and a little obnoxious" mutated into "indecisiveness", but I guess it was brought up in discussions of the months past, got compressed into that one word and that was how it became the topic of discussion.
Well, that's one thing I'd been wondering, because I haven't come across any interviews yet where Yoshino actually says that.

Going back to this then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Well, excuse the hell out of me if I disagree with opinions raised by the writers ( the seiyuu don't even count with me, they are just employees without decision power. Their opinions are only just as valid as ours. And given how clueless they sound in about every episode commentary, probably even less. ).
I wasn't even referring to the seiyuu that time. But alright, if you feel that way, I'm done.

Which is probably a good thing since you say Nakamura-san and Endou-san both have a good grasp of their characters. Because you sure as hell wouldn't want to know about their fanbook interviews then.
__________________



You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.



"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.
- Patrick Stokes


karice67 is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 07:50   Link #1233
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Going back to this then. I wasn't even referring to the seiyuu that time. But alright, if you feel that way, I'm done.

Which is probably a good thing since you say Nakamura-san and Endou-san both have a good grasp of their characters. Because you sure as hell wouldn't want to know about their fanbook interviews then.
I mostly refer to comments we got over the last three years, of which we got snippets here and there. Compared to how Michael's and Klan's seiyuus seemed barely able at times to pick out the scenes of their own characters, yes, Endo and Nakamura made some more insightful comments over the years. You citing some interview nobody else here has ever read doesn't change that. We can't make conclusions on stuff we never knew before that it was there.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 08:57   Link #1234
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Well, we know she doesn't even remember the face of her mother. And one would think that it would be mentioned at least once if she knew her true ancestry.
Well, conversely, since it wasn't shown that she didn't know that, we cannot be so certain, can we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Spoiler for movie spoiler:
Spoiler for Movie?:
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is online now  
Old 2011-04-23, 09:13   Link #1235
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Well, conversely, since it wasn't shown that she didn't know that, we cannot be so certain, can we?
Well, we do know that Sheryl cannot even remember the face of her mother and that she was living on the streets of Galaxy. You honestly think that, if she had known that she was Mao Nomes granddaughter, her name alone wouldn't have opened doors for her to at least get off the streets?

OTOH, it could well be that Grace was working behind the scenes to prevent just that. Still, I'll leave it at "highly unlikely" that Sheryl did know that Mao was her grandmother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Spoiler for Movie?:
C'mon, it clearly points to the movie. Put a spoiler tag around it upthread. I just got bawled out yesterday about not being careful with spoilers in this thread.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 16:18   Link #1236
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Hm, I'm pretty sure this is the wrong thread for this. Please post it in the "Macross Frontier 2nd Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa" thread.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 16:24   Link #1237
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by uranium235 View Post
sorry for that, I will do it.
Sure I delete this?
You probably should as its very spoileriffic for the second movie, and some people would rather wait until they actually get to see it.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 16:26   Link #1238
rieclipse
銀河の要請
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Cover song?

Okay, since this thread makes us want to go and watch MacF all over again, I was wondering if there is anyone here who would want to sing some MacF covers again (both Japanese and English covers)?
rieclipse is offline  
Old 2011-04-23, 16:33   Link #1239
uranium235
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
You probably should as its very spoileriffic for the second movie, and some people would rather wait until they actually get to see it.
those are the Film cut. the picture took from action of amazon Jp. people selling it on internet. not just shot from cinema.

sorry the that, I remove it all.
__________________

Macross 2012 30th
uranium235 is offline  
Old 2011-04-24, 12:00   Link #1240
Darthtabby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
[QUOTE=magnuskn;3583245]ANYWAY, let's start this weeks run-down.
- I am still kinda thrown that Ozma didn't seem to recognize Gallia IV when Sheryl, Alto and Ranka first went there...
[quote]

You sure he wasn't just hiding it? I wouldn't put it past him to have been hiding other feelings during his conversation with Cathy in Episode 11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- I still wonder if Sheryl will ever know, in the TV-universe, that she is the granddaughter of Mao. The letter Cathy recovered doesn't spell it out, but maybe Cathy or Ozma will make the connection one day.
There was a blogger who argued that she probably did... his reasoning was that it would have been highly unusual for a songwriter to be allowed on set during the filming of a movie as she doesn't really have any business being there -her job is in post production. A family connection to the story would both give her a reason to want to be there and a possible reason why they'd let her be there.

At the time I wasn't sure if I entirely bought the theory, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- And we get to the single best directed scene in the entire series. Every moment is pitch perfect and can be interpreted to have hidden meanings.

- The animation also is excellent, showing exactly how Sheryl is feeling, while still giving Alto enough emotional distance in his facial expression to maintain that slight edge of "what exactly is he telling Sheryl about his feelings?".
That scene is a favorite of mine as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- "Let's leave the lover's business until later" works much better than many other translations I've seen.
My question is whether it's more accurate than other translations. (I'm thinking in particular of one that was something along the lines of "Let's call off pretending to be lovers." Not that I think Sheryl meant that honestly, but I do wonder if that's more in line with what she was actually saying.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- Now, after the intermission, Sheryl prepares to give it all, to sing until she drops dead.
Yeah, you can really see the defiance in her expression there. And that was one heck of an entrance.

The fact that she's still indulging in stage costumes and dance moves/stage gestures at this point seems a bit ridiculous. I guess the best in series explanation is that she's doing it to help herself get into what she's doing.

Quote:
- Hm, between all the drama of the last scenes... Alto being hit warrants a mention over the loudspeaker system of Battle Frontier? He certainly has risen in importance...
Did you happen to take note of his callsign? Sagittarius One?


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
- And, honestly, anybody really thought Alto was dead when the episode just aired?
I don't remember exactly how I reacted to a lot of scenes in the series the first time I saw it. But I don't seem to remember thinking that he was dead.

Few comments of my own here:

I'm really kind of wondering WTF people were thinking when they saw Giant Ranka! appear in front of the fleet.

Is Alto seriously the only guy who noticed that Galaxy warship slipping away from the Frontier fleet? Though I guess it was a decent way to give him a hint that something was out of place. Although maybe the streams of purple flak Giant Holographic Ranka was unleashing should have been a hint. Vajra weapons fire is yellow or orange, people!

It's a wonder the Frontier fleet's casualties weren't much worse given the shots we're shown of them getting blasted by those beams. Also, where were all the other ships and fighters during the previous battles?

Alto's VF-171EX seems to have a bad case of hero enhanced armour. Granted the shots Brera was hitting him with didn't appear to be fully charged except for the last one, but they weren't like the rapid fire ones he was using in combat with Vajra drones at other points in the series either.
Darthtabby is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
macross frontier, re-watch

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.