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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Ratings
Perfect 10 274 67.49%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 70 17.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 40 9.85%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 3.45%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 1.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.25%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.25%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-04-23, 17:47   Link #801
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It's ambiguous to you. I understood perfectly why Kyoko's attitude changed, and I didn't need the show to spoon feed me an explanation. It left enough information there for me to see the reasons, so it was acceptable to me.
Yep. You were able to make up an explanation that worked for you, so the lack of one from the show was acceptable. I'm actually beginning to love this line of thought; I can use it for anyone who has a future issue with my fanfiction!

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Originally Posted by RedWing View Post
Just because a few people agree with you doesn't make your argument objective. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
It would be getting into philosophical realms, but I'll leave this article on Objective Reality here for your persual.

Quote:
People put up loads of different theories, just because one of them was right don’t mean it was a logical conclusion. First, we are looking at it from the view of an outsider, second many people have theories in real life that are not exactly logical. many independent people had the theory that 9/11 was an inside job, they might be right but it doesn’t that mean that it is a logical conclusion to the information we are given.
You're not addressing the point being made. This was thrown up to show that other people, ie, people who were not me, also realized that the "witches born from curses" line did spawn other potential questions, particularly in the realm of "Does that mean all witches are girls, too?"

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Why is it that people think we were shown every single timeline? gg's translation says that Homura repeated the month COUNTLESS times. That means when she says something doesn't work we have no reason to doubt her.
You may also want to read the interview posted not too long ago, in fact, that says Gen himself didn't think the timelooping out too much, considering it not important. So even any attempt to theorize about means you're thinking about the show more than the writer was. Which is, interestingly enough, my point.

Quote:
Are you even watching the show? She DID try something different!
You know, I really love that kind of response; "Are you even watching the show!?" as if the implication is somehow that the other person is making a comment without having watched it. I suppose I could make the same comment in response, but I will take you at your word that you did indeed, watch the show.

But to get to your point, yes, she did try a little something different. But the whole issue of WN is merely a side-show to the real issue: that Homura is barely half-assing an attempt to convince Madoka.

Quote:
I have to disagree here, although this is a much better made point. Homura from the beginning has made a simple goal of not allowing Madoka to come into a situation in which she has to contract. WN is the MOST powerful witch, so once the threat is gone Madoka no longer has any reason to contract. Remember Madoka's life if easy and simple, she has no troubles and no issues. Once WN is gone, she can go back to living her life as normal. You are forgetting that once Madoka said no in ep 4, KYUBEE LEAVES!
Why would Kyube leave? He's after energy, remember, and Madoka is a prized T-bone steak that he's been salivating over. Witches in general will still exist and threaten people. As far as I can recall, the only time Kyube said he was leaving was after he had gained the humongous energy from Madoka turning into a witch. She met his energy quota, whatever that was supposed to mean.

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100% true, but the problem is that you have to actually make proper well supported arguments, not just throwing out a torrent of complaints without really analysing them.
Well, I guess you can take that up with all the other people who seem to feel I have good arguments, even if they don't agree.
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Old 2011-04-23, 17:47   Link #802
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, I wouldn't.

But you set the standard of 'stupidity' as being "taking actions that hurt yourself and those who care about you". Well, Kyouko did that. Unintentionally, of course, but she did do that.


Sometimes people make mistakes. It doesn't necessarily make them stupid or irrational. The brightest and most rational people around can and do make mistakes some times.

I think that you're a bit too harsh on Sayaka... but then, you're not the only one...

I do agree with you on one thing, though: Sayaka is very emotional, and that's often the main reason she makes the mistakes that she does. But some of her conversations with Madoka displayed a good level of intelligence, for both girls.
ummm... no matter how much you try to pass the blame to Kyouko it was still the father who was irrational not Kyouko. And you might have missed a very important detail? I recall that I included "on multiple occasions" in there.

And just for the record when I say Sayaka is more on the stupid side I don't mean to say that she's completely stupid as to not be able to make good conversations/observations. It's as I've said, she's more on the stupid side because she tends to make a lot of mistakes due to her being too emotional.
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Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2011-04-23, 17:50   Link #803
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I'd like to see a comment where Kaijo says he hates the show.
He has problems with it but it seems he enjoyed it overall.
An overall four out of ten review is less than 50%. That's an F--pretty much spells out "this show sucks balls" to me.

My teachers don't grade papers under 50% if they're not complete piles of fail. If a video game review site rates a game four out of ten, a lot of people wouldn't even warez it, much less buy it. So yeah, that says "hate" to me pretty fucking strongly.

Edit: The review so you can see for yourself.
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Old 2011-04-23, 17:59   Link #804
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
Yes that is true, however in that fight neither her limit nor Walpurgis limit was fully tested before Madoka stepped in. I have no doubt that she would still lose in the end but it was not a conclusive fight. While it does provide certain knowledge, I doubt it is to any extent beyond knowing that she with the preparation she had in timeline 4 is not enough to beat it.
'Why can't I defeat her no matter how many times I try?" - Homura.

And there are more resets than what was shown so you don't know the actual number of fights she had with WN.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:00   Link #805
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
An overall four out of ten review is less than 50%. That's an F--pretty much spells out "this show sucks balls" to me.

My teachers don't grade papers under 50% if they're not complete piles of fail. If a video game review site rates a game four out of ten, a lot of people wouldn't even warez it, much less buy it. So yeah, that says "hate" to me pretty fucking strongly.

Edit: The review so you can see for yourself.
To be entirely fair, there's a heavy difference between a grading system where -50% means fail and a ranking system of 1-10. In the latter, 4/10 doesn't mean anything close to "hate"; if 5/10 is the definition of average, it then stands to reason that 4/10 would be "not bad, but not quite average" which sums up Kaijo's opinion pretty cleanly. I strongly disagree with such a low ranking personally, but I respect his opinion enough to be honest about what it likely means.

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Originally Posted by Demon Eyes View Post
'Why can't I defeat her no matter how many times I try?" - Homura.

And there are more resets than what was shown so you don't know the actual number of fights she had with WN.
Indeed, that line has a certain sense of confirming that she consistently gives it her all. Plus, while technically she probably could have gotten back up after being smashed around in timeline 4, timeline 5 shows pretty neatly that a single smashing hit is all it really takes to put her down.

On another note, you can't say that there are more resets than what are shown. Until Gen says something conclusive on the matter we can't safely speculate on any potential timelines but the ones directly shown.

Last edited by Akashin; 2011-04-23 at 18:04. Reason: Editing
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:04   Link #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
An overall four out of ten review is less than 50%. That's an F--pretty much spells out "this show sucks balls" to me.

My teachers don't grade papers under 50% if they're not complete piles of fail. If a video game review site rates a game four out of ten, a lot of people wouldn't even warez it, much less buy it. So yeah, that says "hate" to me pretty fucking strongly.

Edit: The review so you can see for yourself.
I was gonna respond to your earlier post, Syn, but I couldn't bring myself to. I will say that the discussion in this thread has help shifted my viewpoint, and I will probably rate it up a bit higher, to at least a 5. I won't go into your other post much, because honestly, I really feel that you were better than that, and I feel such a post, regardless of what side one is on, one can agree it was out of place.

Also, a paper grade score isn't quite like a rating on a show.

Also, you used the word "fuck" again.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:05   Link #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato View Post
ummm... no matter how much you try to pass the blame to Kyouko
I'm not trying to "pass the blame" to Kyouko. I'm just saying that she did take actions that ultimately lead to herself, and those she cared about, getting hurt. Severely hurt.


Quote:
it was still the father who was irrational not Kyouko.
No, he wasn't irrational. He snapped. There is a difference, imo.


Quote:
And you might have missed a very important detail? I recall that I included "on multiple occasions" in there.
Given the context, I don't think it's a very important detail. It's kind of hard to hurt people multiple times when the first time you hurt them, they're dead.


Quote:
And just for the record when I say Sayaka is more on the stupid side...
"More on the stupid side" comes across to me as you accusing her of "below average intelligence". In my opinion, the level of discourse between her and Madoka strongly suggests that Sayaka is not of "below average intelligence".


Quote:
It's as I've said, she's more on the stupid side because she tends to make a lot of mistakes due to her being too emotional.
I disagree with you. Degree of emotionality has no bearing on degree of intelligence.

Finally, and with all due respect, the fact that you've continued this debate with me for so long strongly suggests to me that you do hate Sayaka, or you'd let this debate go.

As for myself, I'll gladly admit that I like Sayaka a lot, or I wouldn't keep this debate going in order to defend her against what I think are your unwarranted attacks on her character.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:15   Link #808
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I was gonna respond to your earlier post, Syn, but I couldn't bring myself to. I will say that the discussion in this thread has help shifted my viewpoint, and I will probably rate it up a bit higher, to at least a 5. I won't go into your other post much, because honestly, I really feel that you were better than that, and I feel such a post, regardless of what side one is on, one can agree it was out of place.

Also, a paper grade score isn't quite like a rating on a show.

Also, you used the word "fuck" again.
Out of place... what?

Better than what? I just got sick of every time anyone said "hey I like this show it was pretty cool bro" you had to come along and tell them they were wrong.

I like this show, it was pretty cool and it's a hell of a lot better than the stupid harem loserguy crap or the siscon fetish horseshit that's being shoveled out as of late. Maybe I'm being too kind to Madoka simply because 99% of everything else being released is complete and utter ass.

But really, I don't think so. It stands up very well against shows from years ago, before the economy fucked everything up and brought the number of unique and interesting releases down to almost nothing. Things are looking up now, sure, what with this show and several others starting up recently...

I'm not even gonna bother. Your mind is completely made up, you've totally committed yourself to telling people who genuinely enjoyed the show that they're wrong. Just like when you and that other asshole hijacked Dating to try and convince everyone how evil women really are.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:16   Link #809
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Heh, Sayaka is certainly 'stupid' as in, overly emotional. She can't be intellectually stupid if the school she goes to teaches university level entrance exam as everyday homework. But, this kind of stupidity just makes her all more charming in my eyes (to be specific, Sayaka being 'stupid' is what made her charming. I might say differently for different characters for different anime over the same character quality).
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:19   Link #810
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Let's try to keep things civil please.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:25   Link #811
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Heh, Sayaka is certainly 'stupid' as in, overly emotional. She can't be intellectually stupid if the school she goes to teaches university level entrance exam as everyday homework. But, this kind of stupidity just makes her all more charming in my eyes (to be specific, Sayaka being 'stupid' is what made her charming. I might say differently for different characters for different anime over the same character quality).
Not that I'm calling Sayaka stupid (overly emotional yes, but on an intellectual level she proves several times she's definitely not stupid), but where does the university level entrance exam comment come from? Not arguing, in case it sounds like that; I'm genuinely curious, since I haven't heard anything about that.
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:49   Link #812
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It's in the wiki

http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Mathemat..._Madoka_Magica
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Old 2011-04-23, 18:55   Link #813
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o_O Weird. I kind of want to say that those were probably put there without much thought (and they probably were), but still, that is pretty unusual. Well, I guess we can discount anybody in Madoka's class being stupid then. And this puts a whole new spin on Madoka only being a seemingly average student.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:02   Link #814
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Of course, it all depends on if it was put there by Gen, or put there by SHAFT. A lot of things Shaft does just to spice up the visuals(for instance actually making Kyube look creepy), and I have to wonder whether Gen was actually thinking mathematics.

On the other end, that level of math for 14 year olds, does imply that if anything, they should be smarter than the average person, which puts their actions, thoughts, and decisions into more of a strange light.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:03   Link #815
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o_O Weird. I kind of want to say that those were probably put there without much thought (and they probably were), but still, that is pretty unusual. Well, I guess we can discount anybody in Madoka's class being stupid then. And this puts a whole new spin on Madoka only being a seemingly average student.
Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. Look at the ep.9 algebra problem...

ninja edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijou
Of course, it all depends on if it was put there by Gen, or put there by SHAFT. A lot of things Shaft does just to spice up the visuals(for instance actually making Kyube look creepy), and I have to wonder whether Gen was actually thinking mathematics.
Yep, like that black cat thing too . It was probably all shaft.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:04   Link #816
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Of course, it all depends on if it was put there by Gen, or put there by SHAFT. A lot of things Shaft does just to spice up the visuals(for instance actually making Kyube look creepy), and I have to wonder whether Gen was actually thinking mathematics.

On the other end, that level of math for 14 year olds, does imply that if anything, they should be smarter than the average person, which puts their actions, thoughts, and decisions into more of a strange light.
I have no doubt that it was just a stylistic thing, since otherwise there probably would have been at least some kind of indication that their school was anything but an average school. Just kind of an amusing thing to think about as a "what if" of sorts, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. Look at the ep.9 algebra problem...
By saying that I meant that they probably didn't intend for it to be anything but background noise. Of course the problems themselves have serious thought put into them, but that they have any real bearing on the show itself is doubtful.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:05   Link #817
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Of course, it all depends on if it was put there by Gen, or put there by SHAFT. A lot of things Shaft does just to spice up the visuals(for instance actually making Kyube look creepy), and I have to wonder whether Gen was actually thinking mathematics.

On the other end, that level of math for 14 year olds, does imply that if anything, they should be smarter than the average person, which puts their actions, thoughts, and decisions into more of a strange light.
Kaijo bro you're starting up another firestorm...

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
@Kaijo: If you hate the show so much, why are you spending so many hours discussing it and picking it apart? Why spend so much effort trying to make everyone else hate it, too?

If you hate it so much and think Mai-HiME and Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha is so much better, why not just go watch those shows and stop trying to tell people who genuinely enjoyed Puella Magi Madoka Magica how "wrong" we are?

If you hate it so much, why don't you just turn it off? I don't watch stuff I hate--I delete it from my hard drive!
Don't mind him he's a credit and that just how he rolls so I just learned to leave with him...
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:06   Link #818
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I doubt they were put there with no thought at all. Those aren't problems you run into everyday.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:15   Link #819
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Kaijo bro you're starting up another firestorm...
It's what I do

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I doubt they were put there with no thought at all. Those aren't problems you run into everyday.
Well, I suppose we won't really know, unless someone has a Japanese friend who can try to ask in some forum. It's just that with Gen's line about how he didn't think out Homura's timelooping because he didn't consider it that relevant to the plot, means he probably didn't think out math problems on a board, either. It's probably more Shaft just having fun with the ambiance.
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Old 2011-04-23, 19:23   Link #820
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Heh, if I wasn't knee deep in my own fics at the moment, I might consider it. I will say that Madoka has some interesting material to possibly make a fic out of, and I can detect the plot bunnies at the edge of my vision, but I'm hesitant to take anything else on at this time. I'm still overdue churning out the last couple of chapters of my 36-chapter Nanoha fic.
Well thats understandable if you do find time hit me up with a pm. I have a ton of ideas swirling in my head like a story about a washed up ex-cop turned P.I. who is hired by the parents of a missing girl to find her. He stubbles in to the world of Magical Girls and Witches then discovers a traumatic memory form his childhood is also linked to all of it.
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