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Old 2011-04-24, 22:21   Link #981
justpassingby
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
It's believable if she's the best from the start, but to suddenly pull an deus ex machina development to make her the best is just bad writing IMO. It's like the author suddenly decides "Oh, I like this girl, let's make her the strongest between the other girls too. Explanation? Screw explanation, let's just make her genius sister do something magic-like to make her the strongest"
Huh? Not even Amuro is the best from the start. Also, Houki doesn't even know she's an S. Probably the only people know this fact is Tatenashi and Tabane. Tabane also said in the epilogue that the activation rate for Akatsubaki is finally raised. Just hope that the author can put a good background story for Shinonono's household to satisfy those unsatisfied, though I would prefer if he works more on the battle, rather than give a hint "is a hit" (page 225)

Also, Yumizuru needs to define who's the heroine of this story, so that's what he did

Well, here a gundam cliche, since 1979: Older family member creates a war machine, younger one get involved, and become best pilot as the story evolved. To sell more, let's make the pilot an esper a.ka. Newtype lol
.....Tem Ray has purple hair
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Old 2011-04-24, 22:51   Link #982
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More like the story must focus in Ichika-chifuyu-madoka, and Ichika's kidnapping............also, the author should give Ichika some spotlight (like finally learning how to not WASTE his IS................i would say, fight against madoka - bitter end - timeskip for training - second round - better conclusion)
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Old 2011-04-24, 23:00   Link #983
kuroishinigami
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Yea, but Amuro gain skill by being thrust into hard battle after hard battle, but Houki get upgraded by deus ex machina development, or at least that's what I feel. Tatenashi even said that it's almost impossible to develop from aptitude C to S even after long training, while Houki hasn't trained for even 1 year. Furthermore, the upgrade is not because of Houki's herself, but because of Tabane's "Hahaha, just as planned" move. It's just feels like all the trainings the other students at the academy do are useless since Tabane can just pulled her magic move and make anyone she likes stronger than the hard-working one.

On page 225, it was supposed to be a cliffhanger, or at least that's what I thought. We were supposed to imagine ourselves whether the attack defeat the Golem or it won't be able to get past the Golem's armor and they have to receive the teacher's help to defeat the Golem. It's in the same line as Charlotte and Laura's battle earlier(Laura get slashed, and story perspective change). I agree that the battle is far from perfect, but it's improving by each volume. One thing to remember, this is the first time the author use the "more than one enemy" plot, so it's just normal for it to have a lot of fault. I just hope the author will keep trying new things and improve on that rather than making the story formulaic by staying true to what the author already can do(harem antic and one perspective battle).
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Old 2011-04-24, 23:19   Link #984
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Hmm, on page 130, Tatenashi only said "The key is Tabane". It doesn't say anywhere she could change any students' aptitude . Also, Tatenashi didn't specified what type of training to raise the IS synhcro rate, and Houki has been training Kendou like, since forever.

Regarding the battle, the author should learn from other mecha novelists. I'll be happy if he can pull a Fukui and make a book where only 2+ hours has passed (shit blows up)
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Old 2011-04-24, 23:50   Link #985
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Amuro was a genius, Houki ISNT. Potential > Skills, but Houki has shown low potential. She was worse than Ichika at begining according to the Entrance Exam. She was slightly better than Ichika because she had a bit more experience in IS. So Houki basically went from crap-pilot(C) to superace-pilot(S). Yeah, I have to agree with Kuroi. Author likes Houki. Ih he continues the popularity of IS will go down bad.
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Old 2011-04-24, 23:52   Link #986
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Tatenashi indeed didn't specified what type of training needed to raise IS synchro rate, but she explicitly said that it's impossible to raise from level C to S, since the only person with S aptitude is the 5 strongest IS user in the world, and I don't think Houki's kendou training affect her IS aptitude because if it is, we will see every students learning some kind of martial arts to increase their aptitude. I don't mind having Houki get a major power-up(I'm neutral on which girl should win the harem race, although I like Tatenashi's personality), but at least make her get it through hard training, or through an experience with a desperate battle instead of being handed just like that(which is also why I don't really mind her being able to master activating Kenran Butou at will, but her other power up were just too much).

It's indeed hasn't been explained yet if Tabane can change any students' aptitude, but if she can do that with Houki, what makes her unable to do that to other people as well? After all, she can make an IS core out of nowhere and make an unmanned IS. Heck, she could probably take over the world by making an army of unmanned IS if she wanted to.

Personally, I hate Tabane's character. She should have stayed missing to make the story more fair. She could have handed Houki's IS indirectly instead of involving in things directly with her godlike skill. It just feels like her involvement make all the hard works in learning IS piloting technique feels useless. Next thing you know, she will just put out 5th generation IS or some other absurd thing to power up people she wants to instead of them training to get the power up needed.

And about learning from other mecha novelist, IMO everyone have their own writing style and copying the style of other author usually turns up bad. The author should develop his/her own style through experiment. Maybe after several more volume he will be able to write a epic battle that mirror his writing style the best. After all, in the last 2 volume, the author start to insert the danger of pilot dying in the battle(before the last 2 volume, they will just enter absolute defense mode if they lose). I've never read Fukui's work(what book did he write?), but maybe a heavy mecha battle style doesn't suit IS' author with the high-speed mecha and absurd unrealistic technology used here.
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Old 2011-04-25, 00:05   Link #987
justpassingby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n0m@n View Post
Amuro was a genius, Houki ISNT. Potential > Skills, but Houki has shown low potential. She was worse than Ichika at begining according to the Entrance Exam. She was slightly better than Ichika because she had a bit more experience in IS. So Houki basically went from crap-pilot(C) to superace-pilot(S). Yeah, I have to agree with Kuroi. Author likes Houki. Ih he continues the popularity of IS will go down bad.
So if Tabane can rig how Ichika can pilot IS, she can't manipulate her sister's Entrance Exam result? . Also, during the shower scene (pg 174), it is said that the goverment forced Houki to enter the IS Academy. Who's to say Houki herself didn't rigged her exam result

Tatenashi also said there is no record in the library saying people went from C to S, may be Tabane herself played a part in this by deleting the record

Lastly, if the author didn't give special treatment to someone, or give equal special treatment to everyone, then the 'special' will lose it's meaning. And I'm not keen of Houki winning the harem race, (I never like Ichika anyways).

so uhh why the author liking Houki will make IS's popularity goes bad?
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Old 2011-04-25, 00:20   Link #988
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So if Tabane can rig how Ichika can pilot IS, she can't manipulate her sister's Entrance Exam result? . Also, during the shower scene (pg 174), it is said that the goverment forced Houki to enter the IS Academy. Who's to say Houki herself didn't rigged her exam result
It could happen but we dont have actual proof at this point.

Tatenashi also said there is no record in the library saying people went from C to S, may be Tabane herself played a part in this by deleting the record
I'm not sure if Tabane touched Houki's exam or not. But if she didnt then her potential increasing like that means that the author is favouring Houki. You would have to be a total different person if your potential changes like that. If Tabane actually did change Houki's actual skills than I wont complain about it. Except we a not sure about that at this point.

so uhh why the author liking Houki will make IS's popularity goes bad?

Because the plot would be on focusing on Houki rather than other characters. So people who likes other characters like myself would feel let down by the the authors favarism. Giving "special" treatment on one character will make that charcter look superior, but at the same time would make others look inferior. The author would success on making Houki strong but it doesnt mean it would be good in terms of storyline.
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Old 2011-04-25, 00:39   Link #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
So if Tabane can rig how Ichika can pilot IS, she can't manipulate her sister's Entrance Exam result? . Also, during the shower scene (pg 174), it is said that the goverment forced Houki to enter the IS Academy. Who's to say Houki herself didn't rigged her exam result

Tatenashi also said there is no record in the library saying people went from C to S, may be Tabane herself played a part in this by deleting the record

Lastly, if the author didn't give special treatment to someone, or give equal special treatment to everyone, then the 'special' will lose it's meaning. And I'm not keen of Houki winning the harem race, (I never like Ichika anyways).

so uhh why the author liking Houki will make IS's popularity goes bad?
i agree with justpassingby but i also agree with kuroi but i think that'll explain most, esp since tabane is a bloody genius who builds ISes outta no where so why not manipulate marks

@kuroi summary?
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Old 2011-04-25, 00:41   Link #990
justpassingby
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Originally Posted by n0m@n View Post
Because the plot would be on focusing on Houki rather than other characters. So people who likes other characters like myself would feel let down by the the authors favarism. Giving "special" treatment on one character will make that charcter look superior, but at the same time would make others look inferior. The author would success on making Houki strong but it doesnt mean it would be good in terms of storyline.
So what did you expect from novel vol 01 or anime ep 01? That Houki is going to be sideline forever? I like other girls too and would like the author to dedicate a book for each to finish their storyline, (with less harem and echi antics of course). Also, don't worry, there is a possibility to remove Houki from the main heroine seat, because her type of character doesn't sell LOL

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You would have to be a total different person if your potential changes like that. If Tabane actually did change Houki's actual skills than I wont complain about it. Except we a not sure about that at this point.
Funny you mention this, because Ichika himself monologue during the photo shooting session, with a close distance to Houki, that some kind of 'appearance' that he didn't recognize is hidden inside Houki (pg93)
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Old 2011-04-25, 01:04   Link #991
kuroishinigami
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Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
So if Tabane can rig how Ichika can pilot IS, she can't manipulate her sister's Entrance Exam result? . Also, during the shower scene (pg 174), it is said that the goverment forced Houki to enter the IS Academy. Who's to say Houki herself didn't rigged her exam result

Tatenashi also said there is no record in the library saying people went from C to S, may be Tabane herself played a part in this by deleting the record

Lastly, if the author didn't give special treatment to someone, or give equal special treatment to everyone, then the 'special' will lose it's meaning. And I'm not keen of Houki winning the harem race, (I never like Ichika anyways).

so uhh why the author liking Houki will make IS's popularity goes bad?
Considering aptitude is gotten from just a body scan, I doubt that Houki can rigged her exam result, and remember that aptitude is decided from birth, so most likely you can't rigged that, unless you're a certain genius.

But really, my qualm with Houki's upgrade is not in the upgrade itself, but in the way she got her upgrade. She can be stronger than Chifuyu for all I care, but make the upgrade more flowing, not just "You're upgraded because your genius sister who happened to be the creator of IS wants you to be". That was just bad plot writing IMO. I would hate it too if Ichika suddenly become hax piloting wise just because Chifuyu suddenly decide to let Ichika inherit her skill without training whatsoever, or Charlotte, or Cecilia, or anyone in that matter. Make somebody good either by background story(Cecilia, Laura), hard work(Charlotte, Cecilia), or story development(Ichika, although his development hasn't showed much in his case due to his idiotic nature ), not some deus ex machina. In Gundam's reference, it would be as if Amuro suddenly become better at piloting MS than Char because the creator of Gundam wants him to be and upgrade his piloting skill through the Gundam's interface(which didn't happened. Amura become as great as Char through experience. The only reason he can get a draw with Char in the early story is because his unit is vastly superior to Char, not his piloting skill).

Well, no point debating more about it until the author reveals more next volume, but it certainly has made the rating of this series goes down a lot in my list .

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Funny you mention this, because Ichika himself monologue during the photo shooting session, with a close distance to Houki, that some kind of 'appearance' that he didn't recognize is hidden inside Houki (pg93)
I don't think that was as literal as you said here. The appearance that Ichika doesn't recognize refers to Houki's beauty and feminism that grow when he wasn't with her IMO.

About author favoritism make him lose popularity, it will certainly happened in a harem story because some of the other girl's shipper will stop following the story once the author decide on a main girl to be the winner, but not as major as n0m@n thinks. It always happen in harem story unless the author establish who the main male protagonist likes from the start of the story.

Summary will wait till later today. I'm at the office now and don't bring my copy of here of course.
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Old 2011-04-25, 01:10   Link #992
justpassingby
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Considering aptitude is gotten from just a body scan, I doubt that Houki can rigged her exam result, and remember that aptitude is decided from birth, so most likely you can't rigged that, unless you're a certain genius.
Uhh, rigged the scanning machine?
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Old 2011-04-25, 01:32   Link #993
FreedmAngl
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Considering aptitude is gotten from just a body scan, I doubt that Houki can rigged her exam result, and remember that aptitude is decided from birth, so most likely you can't rigged that, unless you're a certain genius.

But really, my qualm with Houki's upgrade is not in the upgrade itself, but in the way she got her upgrade. She can be stronger than Chifuyu for all I care, but make the upgrade more flowing, not just "You're upgraded because your genius sister who happened to be the creator of IS wants you to be". That was just bad plot writing IMO. I would hate it too if Ichika suddenly become hax piloting wise just because Chifuyu suddenly decide to let Ichika inherit her skill without training whatsoever, or Charlotte, or Cecilia, or anyone in that matter. Make somebody good either by background story(Cecilia, Laura), hard work(Charlotte, Cecilia), or story development(Ichika, although his development hasn't showed much in his case due to his idiotic nature ), not some deus ex machina. In Gundam's reference, it would be as if Amuro suddenly become better at piloting MS than Char because the creator of Gundam wants him to be and upgrade his piloting skill through the Gundam's interface(which didn't happened. Amura become as great as Char through experience. The only reason he can get a draw with Char in the early story is because his unit is vastly superior to Char, not his piloting skill).

Well, no point debating more about it until the author reveals more next volume, but it certainly has made the rating of this series goes down a lot in my list .



I don't think that was as literal as you said here. The appearance that Ichika doesn't recognize refers to Houki's beauty and feminism that grow when he wasn't with her IMO.

About author favoritism make him lose popularity, it will certainly happened in a harem story because some of the other girl's shipper will stop following the story once the author decide on a main girl to be the winner, but not as major as n0m@n thinks. It always happen in harem story unless the author establish who the main male protagonist likes from the start of the story.

Summary will wait till later today. I'm at the office now and don't bring my copy of here of course.
True that'd be weird if u did bring it with u, they'd be like are u looking at hentai? Ah well i'll have to wait but i do agree that it is idiotic that she'd get her powers for tabane cause she wants her to

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Uhh, rigged the scanning machine?
And yea genius invented IS why not hack a scanning machine
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Old 2011-04-25, 01:48   Link #994
kuroishinigami
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Uhh, rigged the scanning machine?
Ummm, I mean Houki herself couldn't rigged her own aptitude test. Or course Tabane can rigged the scanning machine, she's the god of IS world. She can do anything she want. Hell, she could probably make Tatenashi into a helpless woman who has the worst IS aptitude if she wanted to. I made that point to counter your point that Houki could have rigged the test herself. I'm pretty sure she doesn't have the genius ability of Tabane considering she can't solve the problem of Aka-tsubaki's energy division problem when not activating Kenran Butou.
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Old 2011-04-25, 02:15   Link #995
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So what did you expect from novel vol 01 or anime ep 01? That Houki is going to be sideline forever? I like other girls too and would like the author to dedicate a book for each to finish their storyline, (with less harem and echi antics of course). Also, don't worry, there is a possibility to remove Houki from the main heroine seat, because her type of character doesn't sell LOL
My expection? I thought it was about Ichika becoming strong and getting popular with girls. Thats it. Its quite weird to keep introducing all these new girls for Ichika while it seems obvious who will be the main heroine. And the story is now focusing on Houki, so why did the author make Ichika the main charcter? If he wanted to make Houki special, he should have made her the main charcter from the begining so it would make more sense.

Funny you mention this, because Ichika himself monologue during the photo shooting session, with a close distance to Houki, that some kind of 'appearance' that he didn't recognize is hidden inside Houki (pg93)
I havent read volume 7 yet, but what you are saying is different in terms of looks(?) and that would be quite stuffed up if you are trying to compare that with how she appears to change in skills.
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Old 2011-04-25, 03:26   Link #996
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lol, i wonder if polygamy is legal at the academy. If it is they could have a harem end where ichika gets married without realizing that he was getting married.

On a different note, it does seem like houki is getting handed everything for free, oh well. theres probably some types of problems awaiting her. some random enemy that half-kills her, theres always a bigger fish in the sea? hmmmm, maybe akatsubaki doesn't have a second or third phase like the other IS? or like in many of the gundam series, maybe byakushiki gets destroyed and then he gets a better one that doesnt have the godly self energy drain ability.
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Old 2011-04-25, 03:30   Link #997
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Originally Posted by n0m@n View Post
So what did you expect from novel vol 01 or anime ep 01? That Houki is going to be sideline forever? I like other girls too and would like the author to dedicate a book for each to finish their storyline, (with less harem and echi antics of course). Also, don't worry, there is a possibility to remove Houki from the main heroine seat, because her type of character doesn't sell LOL
My expection? I thought it was about Ichika becoming strong and getting popular with girls. Thats it. Its quite weird to keep introducing all these new girls for Ichika while it seems obvious who will be the main heroine. And the story is now focusing on Houki, so why did the author make Ichika the main charcter? If he wanted to make Houki special, he should have made her the main charcter from the begining so it would make more sense.
From the promotional poster or pin ups, it's either Houki and Ichika,Houki with the other girls, or the other girls, so yeah, I started to think that the girls are the main character, not Ichika.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0m@n View Post
Funny you mention this, because Ichika himself monologue during the photo shooting session, with a close distance to Houki, that some kind of 'appearance' that he didn't recognize is hidden inside Houki (pg93)
I havent read volume 7 yet, but what you are saying is different in terms of looks(?) and that would be quite stuffed up if you are trying to compare that with how she appears to change in skills.
Let me try to translate:
Quote:
"Houki's eyes, they're beautiful...."
Eyes with strong will, the same from the past. But that's not all. I don't know how to put it into words, but there's an appearance that I don't recognize that is hiding/lurking (in them). And, mysteriously, I am charmed to
Those in bracket are not certain, whether referring to the eyes or Houki ( difficult to translate into English). But lol Ichika noticed something
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2011-04-25 at 04:35.
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Old 2011-04-25, 03:57   Link #998
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Hmm.. I remember that one. IIRC, the kanji they use means appearance but the furigana means face(かお) right? That's why I thought that the passage wasn't literal. He was talking about how Houki's eyes and face has grown beautiful in the years he hasn't met her(because the last time he met her, she's still a tomboy girl who beats up guys that made fun of her). That's just my opinion though since Japanese sentence can be quite ambiguous.
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Old 2011-04-25, 04:37   Link #999
Masuzu
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i am fine with deus ex

sometimes it's stupid

sometimes it isn't (star driver ftw)

i will wait for this thing you're arguing about to be animated

can't read japanese

and summaries can only tell you so much
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Old 2011-04-25, 06:04   Link #1000
Dahak86
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Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Those in bracket are not certain, whether referring to the eyes or Houki ( difficult to translate into English). But lol Ichika noticed something
yeah, LoL indeed.
was he looking into her eyes? perhaps, he noticed a blurred reflection of his own-self into her eyes, and thought: "who the hell is that? aah, whatever... I feel strangely attracted to it.."
yeah, I'm not serious.
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