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Old 2011-04-26, 17:39   Link #1041
felix
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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
Citation needed.
Refused.

Should I give you one it would be from a book, not from the ass of the internet, and frankly I don’t see a reason to go though the trouble and prove it you; considering even if I should give one to you, chances are you can’t check it. And there’s the thing you wrote immediately after you ask for a citation. You proved to me you completely and utterly missed the mark:
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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
Turning typical situations into serious business is a form of comedy, but not all comedy is as such. There's laughing out loud at extremely silly situations, and then there's chuckling at something a little bit strange. Both qualify as comedy.
Did I say anything about “serious business”? Try reading what you wrote, all of that falls into the definition I gave you.

I’ll just say it again, most comedy is just normal plot/story/scene/etc exaggerated, that doesn’t mean the characters have to act stupid or unnatural or the moon has to fall from the sky; but they could. The element being exaggerated can be something almost unnoticeable at first. To put it in negative form, it’s very very hard to have humor with normal characters, doing normal routines/things, in an normal environment, talking perfectly normal, having a normal/usual conversation, etc (but sometimes it happens).

If you still don’t agree, well that’s that, we can’t agree on everything.
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Old 2011-04-26, 19:00   Link #1042
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I agree with how the protagonists dealt with him because even in some of the most pathetic people there's got to be some kind of potential in there someplace,that's the message I got anyway from Ohana saying that he at least had gotten something right about her,doesn't mean you have to like the execution of this any better,but to me the "broken record" sound at the end of his speech told me to not really feel sorry for this guy.
I actually don't have a big problem with how the protagonists handled him. So I agree with you here at least, totoum.

Jiromaru clearly shows that he's no serious threat (lol ), and maybe he has more talent than what he thinks in how he was able to so quickly and accurately read a perfect stranger in Ohana.
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Old 2011-04-26, 19:20   Link #1043
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Refused.

Should I give you one it would be from a book, not from the ass of the internet, and frankly I donít see a reason to go though the trouble and prove it you; considering even if I should give one to you, chances are you canít check it.
If you want to claim 90% of comedy is exaggeration, then you better have at least one person who agrees with you. One source that's already echoed your thoughts. I'll even take someone else from this forum, from the "ass of the Internet" as long as you can show you haven't just fabricated something out of thin air.

Quote:
Iíll just say it again, most comedy is just normal plot/story/scene/etc exaggerated, that doesnít mean the characters have to act stupid or unnatural or the moon has to fall from the sky; but they could. The element being exaggerated can be something almost unnoticeable at first. To put it in negative form, itís very very hard to have humor with normal characters, doing normal routines/things, in an normal environment, talking perfectly normal, having a normal/usual conversation, etc (but sometimes it happens).
So exactly what do you believe is exaggerated in Hanasaku Iroha? Minko's rudeness? Nako's shyness? The large, unfriendly crane flying into Ohana's way?

Of course, they're all normal things. I might find cranes flying into my way funny - where I'm from, birds usually avoid humans. But it might be normal for cranes to be confrontational in Tokyo. Therefore, you can't really speak of a single normality. What's normal here might be abnormal there. You might think the writers are exaggerating Minko's personality for some laughs, but it's how Minko naturally feels toward people.
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Old 2011-04-26, 19:46   Link #1044
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I actually don't have a big problem with how the protagonists handled him. So I agree with you here at least, totoum.
Then I'm not too sure what we disagree on but I preffer leaving it to that before I find out

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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
You might think the writers are exaggerating Minko's personality for some laughs, but it's how Minko naturally feels toward people.
They don't exagerate for some laughs from time to time?

From episode 1:

Spoiler for image:


And I'm not talking about the line,even if I accept that maybe it's considered normal to tell people you've never talked to before to die,the way the face is drawn just makes it look exagerated for laughs.
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Old 2011-04-26, 23:42   Link #1045
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Originally Posted by dark998 View Post
Hanasaku now has its own sub forum? Yay!
YES!!

Thank you AS staff!
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Old 2011-04-26, 23:49   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
While I agree that Jiromaru and Tohru are probably unlikeable characters for many, I'm not sure how they're "fail" characters. Seriously, one is an artsy version of Saito from Welcome to the NHK played for comedy, the other is a prick who seems to enjoy tormenting his schoolgirl coworkers. That's a long way from your usual "harem lead/epic fail sidekick" combination, and I actually like the two for what they bring to the show despite the fact they're the kind of people I wouldn't like much IRL.
Well one thing that struck me during the class introduction, is more annoying male characters? NOOOOO. But thankfully they were minor. Mr. Writer's character just has no credibility at this point and the other is... he's there, lol. I just found him insecure and annoying, and that's all I have for him too.

The only one of interest is Kou, and well, which is why I want him in the story soon.


Quote:
It's not like the girls don't have major personality flaws too. Ohana? A bit naive (though less so than the norm for this character type). Nako? Lacks backbone. Minko? Anti-social. Tomoe? Gossips far too much to deal with the fact her life isn't like a steamy romance novel or soap opera.
Well, the female characters aren't that much better, but I didn't want to bring that up. Maybe I should just say Ohana > everyone else. Everything is relative.

Anyhow, on another topic, about being a serious drama or not, I see no reason to not expect this series could manage to do both. Another series, Steins;Gate, has many casual lighthearted moments but it still is overall a serious story; I don't think that particular one has sacrficed any storytelling integrity to get the silly stuff on the screen.

It troubles me, because PA works last production, Angel Beats, also had this odd mismash of drama and comedy that would work sometimes and not other times. Now, this is a completely different writer that everyone has lauded, so I honestly was a bit hyped up. It makes me suspicious that someone doing the editing or directing is screwing up somewhere.
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Old 2011-04-27, 03:48   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I mean, the sense I took from Jiromaru's suicide attempt scene is that the anime was trying to accomplish both of the following, simultaneously:

1) Make you laugh at this guy's ineptitude, and just how pitiful he is.

2) Make you feel sympathy for the guy's misfortune, and just how horrible his life situation is (hence you'd agree with how the protagonists handled him and the broader situation).
For me the scene leaned heavily towards 1).

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
While I see your point on "curiosity", I have a harder time with your point on"embarrassing".

Ohana is clearly not a person who gets embarrassed easily. I mean, in front of a significant number of people, she actually exclaimed to the person writing her as a central character in erotic fiction that she "wants to sparkle!"

The Japanese in general may hate being the center of attention, but I certainly don't get that vibe from Ohana at all. If Ohana hated being the center of attention, there's no way she'd go out of her way to cook breakfast for everyone, be willing to speak up against even the slightest perceived injustice she comes across, or take a vocal leading role in trying to get everyone to like her and be on friendly terms with her.

The fact that she handled the Episode 4 in-class mobbing very well also speaks to how she's reasonably comfortable being the center of attention, imo.
I agree that she handled it well, but she seemed visibly uncomfortable during the mobbing and during her introduction. She was also a bit flustered when she explained about the uses of the mop in Jiromaru's story. Her attitude when she gives Jiromaru a piece of her mind is different, but that's because she's frustrated - we've seen her act impulsively several times in such scenarios thus far.

So yeah, I think there's good grounds for saying she was embarrassed about being tied up. And we both know Tomoe would yap about it for months if she found out.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well one thing that struck me during the class introduction, is more annoying male characters? NOOOOO. But thankfully they were minor.
Oh, you mean the two guys who were talking about how much they were willing to pay for photos of Minko? Yeah, they're minor... I didn't even think of them when you mentioned male characters.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, the female characters aren't that much better, but I didn't want to bring that up. Maybe I should just say Ohana > everyone else. Everything is relative.

Anyhow, on another topic, about being a serious drama or not, I see no reason to not expect this series could manage to do both. Another series, Steins;Gate, has many casual lighthearted moments but it still is overall a serious story; I don't think that particular one has sacrficed any storytelling integrity to get the silly stuff on the screen.
I guess the issue is that I didn't really see episode 3 as unusually silly for the series. Like Totoum, I saw the "Hey, my boyfriend is in debt and we're running away, go see you grandma" stuff set a less than dead serious tone for the show.

And while I agree Ohana is the best character in the show, I think Nako is adorable and I actually like Tomoe and her soap opera/pulp romance novel fantasies.
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Old 2011-04-27, 05:08   Link #1048
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Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Except that it was also taken here. Please have a look if you can find another one there. ^^

If you still prefer that one switch to this, the same but flipped horizontally.

Thank you. Minko is my favorite.
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Old 2011-04-27, 08:25   Link #1049
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HSI has its own sub-forum now? Cool.

Interested and hopeful that Kou will appear soon and 'spurn' things up!
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Old 2011-04-27, 09:01   Link #1050
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post

I agree that she handled it well, but she seemed visibly uncomfortable during the mobbing and during her introduction.
Not to any unusual degree, imo. I mean, I've seen that exact type of scene play out frequently (most recently centering around Homura in Madoka Magica), and I think that Ohana handled it better than any other character that I've seen faced with it. To me, that says that Ohana gives it to embarrassment much less easily than probably your average female anime character would.

I really don't see Ohana as someone who would be more worried about being embarrassed than simply getting out of being tied up, in bondage, by a creepy stranger who is writing her into erotic fiction (and may well try to rape her, given all of the above, as far as Ohana knows).


Quote:
She was also a bit flustered when she explained about the uses of the mop in Jiromaru's story.
I think that most people worldwide would be embarrassed at explaining how a mop was used as a sex toy on them in erotic fiction wrote up by a creepy stranger.


Quote:
I guess the issue is that I didn't really see episode 3 as unusually silly for the series. Like Totoum, I saw the "Hey, my boyfriend is in debt and we're running away, go see you grandma" stuff set a less than dead serious tone for the show.
I keep finding myself surprised how people took it that way. Because this isn't all that weird, imo.

I mean, I don't even consider myself cynical or jaded, but I can totally buy a mother like Ohana's, who would be willing to send Ohana off to live with another relative while she runs off with her boyfriend to help him avoid debt collectors. There's nothing the least bit unrealistic that I find in any of that.

There are mothers like Ohana's. There are plenty of guys who get into serious debt issues (I personally know people who claimed personal bankruptcy). There are people who run inns.

It's a slightly unusual confluence of circumstances, but neither individual part of it is that out of the ordinary, imo.


Quote:
And while I agree Ohana is the best character in the show, I think Nako is adorable and I actually like Tomoe and her soap opera/pulp romance novel fantasies.
I agree with you on Nako and to a slightly lesser extent Tomoe.

Nako has received a bit more hate than what she deserves, imo.
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Old 2011-04-27, 13:08   Link #1051
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I didn't realize Nako did anything to be hated, lol.
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Old 2011-04-27, 13:35   Link #1052
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I didn't realize Nako did anything to be hated, lol.
Me too actually, lol. But if we try to see deeper into it, then it can be said that the Nako of the first two episodes (the girl who seemed too shy to even talk, the girl who omitted important informations to Ohana regarding room cleaning etc.) wasn't the same of the third and the fourth. Still nothing to "hate" there, imho, but perhaps something to be disappointed with. The Nako of the latest 2 episodes was presented with several more layers (from being a pro swimmer to the cute nicknames' detail, from her kind and caring personality to the temple visit) making her one of the most appealing to the audience as of now.
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Old 2011-04-27, 14:59   Link #1053
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She's still cripplingly shy, though.

(I don't hate her either. I'm just saying: it's still the same Nako.)
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Old 2011-04-27, 15:03   Link #1054
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She's still cripplingly shy, though.

(I don't hate her either. I'm just saying: it's still the same Nako.)
Yes. It was her shyness that indirectly caused trouble for Ohana. She didn't mean any ill will or anything.
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Old 2011-04-27, 15:11   Link #1055
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She's still cripplingly shy, though.

(I don't hate her either. I'm just saying: it's still the same Nako.)
Sure, let's just say that lately she has shown enough reedeming quality to not be so "disliked" anymore.
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Old 2011-04-27, 16:39   Link #1056
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Nako is improving. She’s improving at a snails pace, but I say we should be happy with any character development we get when it comes to her; because chances are she won’t really play any major roles.
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Old 2011-04-27, 19:37   Link #1057
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I understand why people dislike Nako - Ohana and Minko are practically pushing their own unique personalities out in the open; they're being bold and showing their true selves. Ohana especially; she's very much forcing everyone at the inn to accept her role. Not just as the owner's granddaughter, but also as an actual worker like everyone else there. In doing so, she's been put down by several people (Minko and Tohru are the obvious ones, Nako in a more subtle way) but Ohana refuses to back down. I believe this is why everyone is rooting for Ohana.

Nako, on the other hand, is very very reclusive. She's nice, but she's also quite shy and wouldn't have opened up to Ohana if Ohana weren't so eager to be friends. There's not much we can extol about Nako, because she hasn't shown us what's hiding behind the closed veil. In episode 4, we learned she likes the lantern festival... but lots of people like the festival. Nako can be bold at times - she risks her own life in episode 3 (well, not really) to save some half-washed writer who really didn't mean anything to anyone. But even then, Nako still kept the same introverted aura around her. Nako does get angry a couple of times, but immediately reverts back to passive Nako. Personally, I can see why people find it annoying. Nako doesn't quite face the same pressure as Ohana, who is struggling to adapt to a new environment. Or Minko, who is struggling to deal with love (could just be a miscommunication, however).

I'm not going to emplore Nako-haters to give Nako a chance - hate who you want to hate. Still, I do think she's going to gradually improve over the next 20 or so episodes. Mainly because I believe Ohana's going to try and draw out the other side of Nako we haven't seen yet. Just leave it to Ohana... she's going to shake up just about everyone at the inn.
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Old 2011-04-27, 23:14   Link #1058
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Ohana must be an M. So far she is verbally abused, slapped, tied up, and strangled, yet she seems to be as friendly to everyone as ever. M property discovered!
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Old 2011-04-28, 00:14   Link #1059
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I will compile a list of Ohana's mistreatment. This will be even worse than Angel Bullies

Episode 1:
Mom runs out on her, Ohana gets slapped thrice by grandma, recieves death threats from Minko
Episode 2:
Gets scolded by Grandma, harassed by Mr. Writer
Episode 3:
Gets bound and gagged, victim of terrible fanfic.
Episode 4:
Attacked by Heron, strangled by Minko

WHAT NEXT?
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Old 2011-04-28, 00:26   Link #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I will compile a list of Ohana's mistreatment. This will be even worse than Angel Bullies

Episode 1:
Mom runs out on her, Ohana gets slapped thrice by grandma, recieves death threats from Minko
Episode 2:
Gets scolded by Grandma, harassed by Mr. Writer
Episode 3:
Gets bound and gagged, victim of terrible fanfic.
Episode 4:
Attacked by Heron, strangled by Minko

WHAT NEXT?
Hey, are we exaggerating a bit here... Minko made a poor choice in words, and tries to work on it As for the the second, how can fiction victimize a person Sounds like the inverse of that ridiculous reasoning behind crimes against fictional entities

As for what the Tolkien-fan said a couple of posts above, I tend to agree, Ohana seems somewhat M, probably the reason things never progressed with Kou
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