AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Madoka Magica

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-04-26, 13:23   Link #181
FlavorOfLife
Uncaring
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
uhm, i don't consider the white wings fake yet. the white wings were used to cushion her landing after jumping from a skyscraper. it was not used to attack. probably it's for defensive purposes. homura glows and her bow appears. then she commence to attack with bow and arrow.
No i meant what YOU the viewer saw was fake, as in you saw everything as the controlled Homura would have seen it. Only after the credits was how things really were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
although, witch madoka might be talking to her, i consider this unlikely. witch madoka was shot and howled as she vanished. goddess madoka said that she won't even despair. so i guess the witch madoka was probably defeated and no way present in homu's battle. besides goddess madoka was not even attacked or shot at.
That's the thing. No one witnessed who won. Homura got hit with a black and white screen before fading like an anime drawing (loved that). The thing continued only after she awoke.

I'm not saying that witch Madoka definitely won, i'm saying that this is a possibility that i find no evidence to refute, much of it because of Witch Madoka's ability.
FlavorOfLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-26, 13:32   Link #182
SagaraSouske
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
If they are following actual physics, you cannot completely stop entropy. Lets say Timeline 3's Madoka's energy is enough to create a new universe. This at best adds the life span of 1 universe to the deadline.

If the lifespan of 1 universe before heat death is X, the result would be Kyubei now has (2X - Age of universe) time left. entropy is not stopped but delayed.

Then we have to note that the value of X is actually small (!) enough to trouble the incubators to set up their farm. A value of 2X is not going to be massively helpful.

This implies that they would continue to find new energy sources to delay heat death (ignoring some duhhhh! points on actual science)

The only way they had solved the heat death problem would be to change the universal law of entropy like Madoka did for mahou shoujos
Their universe's physical law may not be the same as ours - the fact that the MG system, magic and wishes can exist can prob attest to that.

Also, preventing heat death or entropy is QB's pitch. Whether that is true or not we do not know. But what we do know is that they are farming for energy and have a goal in mind. It is entirely possible Madoka presents a scenario that the energy release has met their goal.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic63006_2.gif
SagaraSouske is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-26, 13:47   Link #183
FlavorOfLife
Uncaring
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
Their universe's physical law may not be the same as ours - the fact that the MG system, magic and wishes can exist can prob attest to that.
Except that Kyubei's explaination is our 2nd law of thermodynamics. Even the word entropy is used the same. As the universal heat death scenerio is based on the 2nd law which Kyubei quoted, the result is the same regardless.

If they were lying then sure, the amount of energy might be enough for their non-stated purposes. However no evidence exists to support either side of truth or lies.
FlavorOfLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 00:33   Link #184
kaigan
Segmentation fault
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
No i meant what YOU the viewer saw was fake, as in you saw everything as the controlled Homura would have seen it. Only after the credits was how things really were.

That's the thing. No one witnessed who won. Homura got hit with a black and white screen before fading like an anime drawing (loved that). The thing continued only after she awoke.

I'm not saying that witch Madoka definitely won, i'm saying that this is a possibility that i find no evidence to refute, much of it because of Witch Madoka's ability.
my apologies. i misunderstood. if the scene with white wings was fake or just an illusion to us and to homura, that would make the succeeding scenes after witch madoka exploded seriously doubtful too, including the homu x mado nude "farewell" scene which is directly connected to the white wings scene.

besides, if homu was engulfed in a witch barrier, isn't she supposedly experiencing paradise by then now? but the white wings scene is far from paradise/heaven. it's more of a continuing struggle and not rest. so it's unlikely to be an illusion, i guess.

now regarding the voice, i doubt if it's witch madoka talking. so far, no known pm-turned-witch ever talk in her old pm/human voice yet. the available examples are sayaka and madoka. both their witch forms' howls sound more like a beast, anything but human.

now, if it is still indeed just an illusion (i hope not), then we are victimized by epic trolling right in the very emotional moment of this episode. just like you said, it will be a bad storytelling indeed. it's possible but i think it will be stretching too far.
kaigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 00:44   Link #185
Akashin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
I'm not saying that witch Madoka definitely won, i'm saying that this is a possibility that i find no evidence to refute, much of it because of Witch Madoka's ability.
Was a "battle" (in the sense of a conflict with winners and losers) even fought, per se? The scene of Witch Madoka being destroyed wasn't a conflict between Madoka and her Witch, really, since it seems probable that Madoka was that Witch, and the Madoka that destroyed it was thus a product of her wish. If that were the case then there wouldn't have been a battle as such, since it would just have been Madoka's wish exterminating her own Witch before it could do anything.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
now regarding the voice, i doubt if it's witch madoka talking. so far, no known pm-turned-witch ever talk in her old pm/human voice yet. the available examples are sayaka and madoka. both their witch forms' howls sound more like a beast, anything but human
It should be noted that the first time we hear Oktavia's voice it speaks, despite sounding quite inhuman, with the same voice actress as Sayaka. Were it to speak coherently, it's possible it would sound the same as Sayaka; we can't confirm this, but it's plausible.
Akashin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 01:15   Link #186
kaigan
Segmentation fault
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
It should be noted that the first time we hear Oktavia's voice it speaks, despite sounding quite inhuman, with the same voice actress as Sayaka. Were it to speak coherently, it's possible it would sound the same as Sayaka; we can't confirm this, but it's plausible.
if you're referring to the first few minutes of ep 9, i could definitely hear something from oktavia. but it's hardly a voice that speaks coming directly from the witch. it's more like a loud cry or groan of anger and despair, hence my howl assumption. we can contrast this to the mocking laughter of WN.

now, both witches don't speak like when they were in their old pm/human form. in fact, they didn't articulate recognizable words, just sounds. unlike the "voice" in the desert it is clearly and distinguishably human/pm. the words are crisp: "ganbatte".

a possible counter to this in the voice when homu walks into a barrier in tl1. but we can't be truly sure if this is from a witch or a familiar. and there is yet an evidence that the witch izabel was also a pm-turned-witch.
kaigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 01:24   Link #187
Akashin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
if you're referring to the first few minutes of ep 9, i could definitely hear something from oktavia. but it's hardly a voice that speaks coming directly from the witch. it's more like a loud cry or groan of anger and despair, hence my howl assumption. we can contrast this to the mocking laughter of WN.

now, both witches don't speak like when they were in their old pm/human form. in fact, they didn't articulate recognizable words, just sounds. unlike the "voice" in the desert it is clearly and distinguishably human/pm. the words are crisp: "ganbatte".

a possible counter to this in the voice when homu walks into a barrier in tl1. but we can't be truly sure if this is from a witch or a familiar. and there is yet an evidence that the witch izabel was also a pm-turned-witch.
Oh, I know; I perfectly agree. I was just making the point that when it makes that inhuman howl (I'm referring to the close up of Oktavia's face at the start of the episode), it does so with Sayaka's voice. I wasn't arguing that this is evidence, just that if Oktavia were to speak (whether it even can or not is completely up for debate), it may also do so with Sayaka's voice.

It's all a moot point, really.
Akashin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 01:34   Link #188
kaigan
Segmentation fault
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
Oh, I know; I perfectly agree. I was just making the point that when it makes that inhuman howl (I'm referring to the close up of Oktavia's face at the start of the episode), it does so with Sayaka's voice. I wasn't arguing that this is evidence, just that if Oktavia were to speak (whether it even can or not is completely up for debate), it may also do so with Sayaka's voice.

It's all a moot point, really.
hehe, i wasn't arguing either. i actually see your point. besides the witches' seiyuu are females too, i guess. what you are saying is actually possible, who knows if that was truly izabel's voice in tl1 and she was a pm before. however, as of current pieces of evidence are available, i found it hard to believe that the voice in the desert is witch madoka and the white wings scene is just an illusion.
kaigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 02:04   Link #189
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
I was just making the point that when it makes that inhuman howl (I'm referring to the close up of Oktavia's face at the start of the episode), it does so with Sayaka's voice.
It is Sayaka's voice, but it's also the only time you hear that kind of noise come from Octavia. I interpreted the screams as the last remnant of Sayaka transforming into Octavia.....I can't imagine it's a pleasant experience in the slightest, considering that Madoka looked like she was in utter agony when she turned into a Witch in Episode 10.

There's only two known instances of Witches talking in human language in the anime: Isadel and Elly (Kirsten). I'm not sure how much you can draw from that though, despite whatever former attachments they had, they also don't seem to be aware of things like a human is.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 04:19   Link #190
Snork
Twilight lander
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
Send a message via ICQ to Snork
Quote:
besides, if homu was engulfed in a witch barrier, isn't she supposedly experiencing paradise by then now? but the white wings scene is far from paradise/heaven. it's more of a continuing struggle and not rest. so it's unlikely to be an illusion, i guess.
Indeed, Gretchen's stated goal was to eliminate grief in the world by creating her own heaven and dragging everyone there. If this is how she sees heaven without grief, I'd say it's a bit too twisted even for a witch.

Quote:
so far, no known pm-turned-witch ever talk in her old pm/human voice yet
There's also Isabel, but she's the only talking witch we've seen (unless you consider Gertrude communicating via her familiars), and there's no way to find out if her voice is anything like the girl she was born from. Oh, and Walpurgis Night as well, but she does more laughing than talking anyway.
The cry Octavia gave, on the other hand, definitely sounds like Sayaka's voice to me. Then again, she stayed silent in all subsequent events we witnessed, even when her hand was sliced off. Maybe her voice was deafened by music, or maybe what we heard was Sayaka's last cry of agony before she ceased to exist...
Oh wait, much of this has been pointed out before me. But did Kirsten talk, too? I don't remember this.
Snork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 05:50   Link #191
ThereminVox
Guess what time it is?
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snork View Post
Indeed, Gretchen's stated goal was to eliminate grief in the world by creating her own heaven and dragging everyone there. If this is how she sees heaven without grief, I'd say it's a bit too twisted even for a witch.
Yeah, I'd say Gretchen's idea of "heaven" would likely be more in line with what Homura said in timeline 3. About how maybe it wouldn't be so bad to become a monster that destroys everything until "all the sad things" are gone, as if they never existed. It might be over-thinking it to assume her "heaven" is a ST:Generations-like Nexus, even though that's how I read her witch card at first.

Maybe just laying waste to a saddened world -- which as Homura put it "can't be saved" -- would be like heaven to Gretchen.
ThereminVox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 06:00   Link #192
Essa Maneira
Tsukiko! ♥
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
wanna know the 100 questions to madoka?
read here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/100_Questions
__________________

HALA MADRID!
Essa Maneira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 09:24   Link #193
Akashin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is Sayaka's voice, but it's also the only time you hear that kind of noise come from Octavia. I interpreted the screams as the last remnant of Sayaka transforming into Octavia.....I can't imagine it's a pleasant experience in the slightest, considering that Madoka looked like she was in utter agony when she turned into a Witch in Episode 10.

There's only two known instances of Witches talking in human language in the anime: Isadel and Elly (Kirsten). I'm not sure how much you can draw from that though, despite whatever former attachments they had, they also don't seem to be aware of things like a human is.
I specified the start of the episode since I couldn't remember if Oktavia continued to use Sayaka's voice after that point. If she doesn't, you're likely correct in saying that it being the last remnant of Sayaka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essa Maneira View Post
wanna know the 100 questions to madoka?
read here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/100_Questions
I can't remember how old this is, but it's been around for a while. Still really helpful (in understanding Madoka's character and, to me, in fleshing her out for writing about her) though.
Akashin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-27, 13:53   Link #194
Snork
Twilight lander
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
Send a message via ICQ to Snork
The questions were published before the broadcast IIRC.
Ah, what a time of speculations and anticipations it was...
Snork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-05-02, 08:34   Link #195
night_sentinel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Hello guys, just want you post this video I found while surfing. Its Madoka's character song with lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEscuT0AKpU


Spoiler for Review of See you Tomorrow:
night_sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-06-28, 21:06   Link #196
rantuyetmai
↓ Crazy in love with her
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Age: 24
^ To my understanding, See You Tomorrow is Madoka at TL1 saying goodbye the day before she headed off to Walpurgisnacht battle. Considering this song came out together with Drama CD1 and the sentiment of this conversation:

"Memories of You" 25:23

Madoka: Hey, if... and this is just an "If"...
Madoka: If something were to happen to me, please take care of Amy.
Homura: Kaname-san...?
Madoka: No no, I'm not saying that anything is going to happen.
Madoka: But it's just like Mami-san said,
Madoka: You never know what might happen during a witch battle.
Madoka: Sometime I feel kind of uneasy about it.


Which is the same as in the song. Madoka is fighting to protect the city because she was had the power and wanted to do so, but as a human being she can't help but being scared of dying and feeling lonely about that.

Now whom this song is addressed to is up for interpretation. This could very well be a goodbye to any of Madoka's family and friends, Homura included, and that is how I see it. This could also more specifically directed to Homura, depending on their closeness at the end of that month.

Spoiler for There is evidence HomuMado can become very, very close:

Last edited by rantuyetmai; 2011-07-06 at 09:18.
rantuyetmai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-06-28, 23:39   Link #197
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Hello guys, just want you post this video I found while surfing. Its Madoka's character song with lyrics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEscuT0AKpU


Spoiler for Review of See you Tomorrow:

I always liked Connect as Madoka's anthem...
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-06-29, 08:20   Link #198
rantuyetmai
↓ Crazy in love with her
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I always liked Connect as Madoka's anthem...
Connect is Homura's song toward Madoka.
rantuyetmai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-06-29, 08:31   Link #199
kaigan
Segmentation fault
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
regarding madoka's character song, it's entitled "mata ashita", right? she finally said it! to homu~ well that's what i heard in the new drama cd. but i'll wait for a translation and verify it.
kaigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-01, 10:54   Link #200
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantuyetmai View Post
Connect is Homura's song toward Madoka.
Can be the other way round too...
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.