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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10 40 42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-04-30, 22:34   Link #2121
karice67
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^
ah, and I just looked carefully at the scan you linked (from darkplataform). The stuff about Sheryl and Ranka was pretty much copied word for word to 2ch, and you can see the heading for "Whether Alto lives or not" in the bottom right corner.

So it should be genuine - the only question being which magazine it was in, and if you don't mind checking... m(_ _ )m
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Old 2011-04-30, 23:00   Link #2122
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Not to continue the off-topic <hint, hint>, but it would be nice if the overly-polite Japanese press would actually ask Kawamari the tough questions such as his need to troll the Macross fanbase continuously...
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Old 2011-04-30, 23:28   Link #2123
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Is this offtopic? XD; It pertains the second movie...

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
ah, and I just looked carefully at the scan you linked (from darkplataform). The stuff about Sheryl and Ranka was pretty much copied word for word to 2ch, and you can see the heading for "Whether Alto lives or not" in the bottom right corner.

So it should be genuine - the only question being which magazine it was in, and if you don't mind checking... m(_ _ )m
That's why I thought the transcription was valid (because of the cropped scan posted earlier).
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Old 2011-05-01, 01:53   Link #2124
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Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Not to continue the off-topic <hint, hint>, but it would be nice if the overly-polite Japanese press would actually ask Kawamari the tough questions such as his need to troll the Macross fanbase continuously...
That's what I've been grousing about for three years. ^^
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Old 2011-05-01, 09:03   Link #2125
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Not to continue the off-topic <hint, hint>, but it would be nice if the overly-polite Japanese press would actually ask Kawamari the tough questions such as his need to troll the Macross fanbase continuously...
Its actually not off-topic at all as it pertains to the ending of the second movie.
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Old 2011-05-02, 09:50   Link #2126
mike_s_6
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Is the scan anywhere yet? I thought I'd look at my usual magazine news source/blather for information on the official book and she didn't have anything interesting to say. But then again she's a bigger Gundam fan than a Macross fan so she might have just not cared...

Quote:
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kouryakukan/e/...4dbd5050021255

According to director Kawamori, it seems that if you listen well, then you can hear the last line of Alto because it's recorded really well?

It's a disappointment however that Kanno definitively stated that there would be no more live for Macross F.
EDIT: Okay never mind, you guys are talking about Animedia and she didn't write a thing about Macross in that one :\
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Old 2011-05-02, 10:09   Link #2127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
It's originally from 2ch. And to be honest, I'd rather have a scan (or the magazine) myself. Maybe I should add that to my order...just to check...

But Yot-chan, at the very least, I think the interpretation of Sheryl waking up is accurate, because of the song that plays during the credits. May'n's comments on it and on the new version of Diamond Crevasse on her blog also seem to support that.

Spoiler for length:
Huh, okay.

Still, it doesn't really make sense to me why they'd work so hard on making the ending relatively ambiguous, only to crush that ambiguity in an anime magazine interview.

Although the interview is still rather ambiguous...

EDIT: I'll join the others in not understanding why CrowKenobi declares this off-topic.
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Old 2011-05-02, 12:21   Link #2128
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^ Probably for the same reason why they left the triangle "open" to the movies (even if the "winner" was kind of obvious?): buy more merchandise.

It seems to me everything got progressively less and less grim. The OST (with May'n claims), Kawamori's interview, Sheryl manga and the Sheryl Visual collection FINAL.

That way there's a more sweet than bitter ending without reducing the impact of the movie ending.
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Old 2011-05-02, 14:36   Link #2129
SS13
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Quote:
So again, everyone WANTS Romeo and Juliet to die, but is afraid they'll survive? I don't buy it. Besides, who says the audience has to leave happy?
In this case, everybody KNOWS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING they'll die (as it is STATED OUTRIGHT , but hopes they may survive somehow. Same medal, other side.

But you don't get the point. The audience doesn't have to leave happy, but they have the right to leave sure what the hell happened! In the end, all loose strings must be pulled and the story concluded. The series DID it, with everything, except the triangle: Grace died, Howard Glass died. Grace died. Sheryl lived, Alto lived. Michel died. Klan lived. THAT'S what normal ending means, and it wouldn't be less normal if Sheryl died (I wrote about it earlier). More tragic, but just as normal.

But the movie has NO CONCLUSION! We don't know what happens to Alto, don't know what happens to Sheryl. We aren't even sure what happened to Brera. And, the living room elephant, we don't know what happeden to MACROSS GALAXY and what it will do. Nothing is resolved, everything is dangling. This usually only happengin a sequel hook (like, say, Episode 24 of the series) and never in the end that is worth its name. Bu putting this in the end, Kawamori basically broke everything - like a cook that can make most delicious meals but feels compelled to add a opiece of shit to each. And this cannot be resolved by us writing something...


Quote:
Well...the simple answer to that is: write your own story and end it however YOU see fit.
Well, this won't help, because the problem IS WHAT KAWAMORI CANONIFIES.

See, IF he had stated "Series is the highest canon, what really happened. Everything else is just in-universe reimagining." - like most productions do ("Primary canon is main canon"), everbody would be happy. Or if he had stated "Movie is just as canon as series, but other stuff (like 'Kiss In the Galaxy' manga and this fighter spec) are canon too", everbody would be also happy. But what DOES he do? He promotes movies - the one source with most ending uncertainities and unresolved doubts - as equal canon to series (and implicitly as higher canon than series: it came late and other materials are centered around it, rather than series), while simultaneously giving many almost-clear-but-never-clear-enough hints about how the story ended (see interview - couldn't he just say whether Sheryl awoke or not? ), AND decanonifying everything that would give us answer (like this fighter spec and aforementioned manga, which I recall he declared lower than movies).

And since he is doing that repeatedly, people get mad and want to yell at him: "Stop this bloody game of unclear hints! Tell us how the story ended already! Or, if you cannot do that, at least stand back and don't decanonify (= declare nonexistent) those sources who do!" THAT'S what is so EVIL about his ending: he produces movie that, according to all dramatic laws is unfinished, doesn't finishes it himself in his interviews and prevents everybody else from finishing it by putting those non-canon disclaimers in their works. He is like somebody who builds a pretty and strong castle but never builds one of the walls, even though all the plans for it are there, AND uses explosives of "non-canon" to blast everything other people try to build to finish the wall.

And that's why it doesn't matter how many endings WE create (FFNet has quite a lot). As long as Kawamiri stands guard and never allows any decisive info to become canon, the story is unfinished and thus butchered. And this AFTER it was basically finished in the series. With almost any western productiom, I'm sure executives would pick an ending (a REAL ending I mean) to be canon, but...

Quote:
hm...though the novel ending is also possible. Especially given the significance of the earring.
Btw, does ANYBODY has confirmed info on how that novel ended yet?
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Old 2011-05-02, 15:48   Link #2130
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS13 View Post
In this case, everybody KNOWS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING they'll die (as it is STATED OUTRIGHT , but hopes they may survive somehow. Same medal, other side.

But you don't get the point. The audience doesn't have to leave happy, but they have the right to leave sure what the hell happened! In the end, all loose strings must be pulled and the story concluded. The series DID it, with everything, except the triangle: Grace died, Howard Glass died. Grace died. Sheryl lived, Alto lived. Michel died. Klan lived. THAT'S what normal ending means, and it wouldn't be less normal if Sheryl died (I wrote about it earlier). More tragic, but just as normal.

But the movie has NO CONCLUSION! We don't know what happens to Alto, don't know what happens to Sheryl. We aren't even sure what happened to Brera. And, the living room elephant, we don't know what happeden to MACROSS GALAXY and what it will do. Nothing is resolved, everything is dangling. This usually only happengin a sequel hook (like, say, Episode 24 of the series) and never in the end that is worth its name. Bu putting this in the end, Kawamori basically broke everything - like a cook that can make most delicious meals but feels compelled to add a opiece of shit to each. And this cannot be resolved by us writing something...




Well, this won't help, because the problem IS WHAT KAWAMORI CANONIFIES.

See, IF he had stated "Series is the highest canon, what really happened. Everything else is just in-universe reimagining." - like most productions do ("Primary canon is main canon"), everbody would be happy. Or if he had stated "Movie is just as canon as series, but other stuff (like 'Kiss In the Galaxy' manga and this fighter spec) are canon too", everbody would be also happy. But what DOES he do? He promotes movies - the one source with most ending uncertainities and unresolved doubts - as equal canon to series (and implicitly as higher canon than series: it came late and other materials are centered around it, rather than series), while simultaneously giving many almost-clear-but-never-clear-enough hints about how the story ended (see interview - couldn't he just say whether Sheryl awoke or not? ), AND decanonifying everything that would give us answer (like this fighter spec and aforementioned manga, which I recall he declared lower than movies).

And since he is doing that repeatedly, people get mad and want to yell at him: "Stop this bloody game of unclear hints! Tell us how the story ended already! Or, if you cannot do that, at least stand back and don't decanonify (= declare nonexistent) those sources who do!" THAT'S what is so EVIL about his ending: he produces movie that, according to all dramatic laws is unfinished, doesn't finishes it himself in his interviews and prevents everybody else from finishing it by putting those non-canon disclaimers in their works. He is like somebody who builds a pretty and strong castle but never builds one of the walls, even though all the plans for it are there, AND uses explosives of "non-canon" to blast everything other people try to build to finish the wall.

And that's why it doesn't matter how many endings WE create (FFNet has quite a lot). As long as Kawamiri stands guard and never allows any decisive info to become canon, the story is unfinished and thus butchered. And this AFTER it was basically finished in the series. With almost any western productiom, I'm sure executives would pick an ending (a REAL ending I mean) to be canon, but...



Btw, does ANYBODY has confirmed info on how that novel ended yet?
First of all calm down. Second of all shouldn't you wait until you actually watch the movie before yo judge it?
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Old 2011-05-02, 16:50   Link #2131
SS13
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Quote:
shouldn't you wait until you actually watch the movie before yo judge it
First, ss I said, this is not just about the movie, but rather about Kawamori's policy at general. And second, The point is that any production with a dangling ending (not sequel hook, but an actual ending) is insalvageable to me, especially seeing as there were thousand ways to make a definite ending, just by not declaring other stuff non-canon. This cannot be corrected by any visual or plot qualities - I can not enjoy driving half a car, I not enjoy watching deliberately non-finished story. Shakespeare unmistakeable told what happened to Romeo and Julia, with audience not havig to guess "well when you see credits, you see that Julia is not quite taking a nap, she is most likely dead..." etc.
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Old 2011-05-02, 17:09   Link #2132
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by SS13 View Post
First, ss I said, this is not just about the movie, but rather about Kawamori's policy at general. And second, The point is that any production with a dangling ending (not sequel hook, but an actual ending) is insalvageable to me, especially seeing as there were thousand ways to make a definite ending, just by not declaring other stuff non-canon. This cannot be corrected by any visual or plot qualities - I can not enjoy driving half a car, I not enjoy watching deliberately non-finished story. Shakespeare unmistakeable told what happened to Romeo and Julia, with audience not havig to guess "well when you see credits, you see that Julia is not quite taking a nap, she is most likely dead..." etc.
I'm sorry but I still don't get why you're still angry as from what I gather the summaries it seems as though movie's ending has tied up all loose ends, that needed tying up. But it seems as though you still don't find it satisfactory to you, to which I say wait until the movie comes out before you judge. Kawamori is not Shakespeare, and this is a different media from Romeo and Juliet.
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Old 2011-05-04, 04:28   Link #2133
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Yes, I agree, Alto tells Sheryl he loves her, but then he's thrown halfway across the universe? That reads as unresolved. For one thing, by the time he gets back, Sheryl might've moved on (figuring that it might take YEARS for him to return) or he might find someone else.
Plug for your upcoming fanfic? Best of luck, "someone else" :wink wink:
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Old 2011-05-04, 04:38   Link #2134
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love triangle is resolved. alto loves sheryl, sheryl loves alto. and that's that. noone needs to guess whom loves whom since the triangle's over.
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Old 2011-05-04, 05:15   Link #2135
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Plug for your upcoming fanfic? Best of luck, "someone else" :wink wink:
I guess after a few years of traveling through the galaxy in company of a Vajra, even chitin begins to look kinda "hot".
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Old 2011-05-04, 06:11   Link #2136
wisteria233
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I Yes, I agree, Alto tells Sheryl he loves her, but then he's thrown halfway across the universe? That reads as unresolved. For one thing, by the time he gets back, Sheryl might've moved on (figuring that it might take YEARS for him to return) or he might find someone else.
But then wouldn't Ranka have also moved on too, and found someone that loved her for who she was, Instead of mourning over a buy who doesn't love her back when she was sixteen?

In fact wouldn't Ranka be more likely than Sheryl to lose her affection towards Alto due to it happening when she was sixteen, and being turned down, then with Sheryl in a coma and Alto not around. I imagine that Ranka would have met someone in that time period and fallen in love with them. Wouldn't that be more in character for movie Ranka? *critiquing your fic ideas*
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Old 2011-05-04, 06:36   Link #2137
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post


Of course, but Ranka wasn't actually in the equation here. I was talking about Sheryl and Alto's reactions to him being thrust away. Ranka might have already moved on, as she seems to have already known (in the movie) that Alto didn't love her, which was why she requested he not speak it. I get that from watching her facial expressions. She's sad but accepting of it. So I doubt she is that upset about it, just more so that her friend - Sheryl - has to suffer. And that's why she's being a supportive friend.
Just making sure you realize that Ranka is no longer in the equation.

And considering that Sheryl does in fact wake up and Alto returns your point is once again moot.
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Old 2011-05-04, 07:19   Link #2138
karice67
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
No, I was mentioning that it takes light-years of travel for us humans. Look at how many years it took Frontier to get there? His mother AND him were born on that ship. And that ship left Earth HOW many years ago? So, it takes years to travel. If Alto thinks he can't make it back to Frontier anytime before he dies (at most 60-100 years old), he might send a message to her as best as possible to tell her to move on. I doubt he'll want to hold her back IF he can't make it back - he's just not that kind of guy who'd want someone to suffer for him.
And you've completely missed the point about what 'folding' actually entails...
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Old 2011-05-04, 10:32   Link #2139
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
And considering that Sheryl does in fact wake up and Alto returns your point is once again moot.
Enh, I wouldn't go quite THAT far... It's HINTED that that's what will happen, but it's still only a hint.

But yeah...LoveMeKags is still wrong, either way.
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Old 2011-05-04, 13:30   Link #2140
Foreshadow
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So.. This thread is a little bit scary...

I don't know if it's been answered yet, but any ideas on when the Blu Ray or the DVD comes out?

Sorry if it's been answered but judging by some of the above... I don't want to read some of these conversations.... I'll have to wait to see the actual thing first. Then I'll pass final judgement.

Last edited by Foreshadow; 2011-05-04 at 16:12.
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