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Old 2011-05-04, 05:46   Link #19861
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
The theory itself states that Tsukune's transformation into a Vampire will be complete but sealed, and so long as Tsukune wears the Holy Lock, he will remain human and his Vampire powers will be locked in the seal. In essence, it works like Moka's Rosario but it's not sealing part of his personality like in Moka's case. Moka and Tsukune will essentially be the same at this stage. Now, all that's left is for Tsukune to grow accustomed to his new body. Indeed, the theory states that Tsukune's body experienced deconstruction and the subsequent reconstruction. That was already confirmed when Fuhai-sensei said that the ritual will destroy his body and rebuild it to accomodate the use of Youjutsu. Because of that, Tsukune will be able to use Youki even in his sealed state because that's what his body does. Tsukune couldn't do that before because his body was human and wasn't designed for that. Next chapter sounds promising if this is so.
True, but part of the reason why Tsukune wasn't capable of controlling his vampire abilities wasn't just because Tsukune's body, wasn't accustomed to his vampire blood, but that Tsukune's mentality wasn't accustomed to the vampire instincts and nature that are also contained in the vampire blood that Tsukune possesses and it remains to be seen, if Tohou Fuhai's human modification ritual managed to adjust that.

Since, if it hadn't Tsukune would still need to keep wearing the Holy Lock to contain his vampire nature and instincts (and stay human), and probably the amount of power that Tsukune is going to be consciously capable of using is going to be limited in some way - basically, while the human modification has managed to resolve the problem of Tsukune's physical body not fully accustomed to the vampire blood, unless the ritual has managed to accustom Tsukune's "mentality" to the vampire blood flowing in his veins (which in my opinion, hasn't happened), then the vampire blood in Tsukune is still capable of destroying Tsukune's mental state and taking control over Tsukune's body (Rosario+vampire Season I, chapter 23, page 16 [14, if you consider the double pages, as a single page] ), even if Tsukune has physically become more accustomed to the vampire blood flowing inside his veins.

It's probably something that you Tsuyoshi, called by "Tsukune getting accustomed to his new body", but to me it's a little more difficult then that, since Tsukune still needs to do what naturally born vampires are capable of instinctively doing (well, apart from Alucard), and that is controlling the vampire instincts present in their blood, which to me is something that Tsukune is still going to need to learn to do, and no ritual is going to help him in archiving that, and until he does, Tsukune is still going to be at a risk of his powers going out of control, when he's pushed to his "limits" (which, where most likely, increased with Tsukune's latest transformation) and would still need to keep wearing his Holy Lock.
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Old 2011-05-04, 06:51   Link #19862
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I think this was brought up before, but there are already some suggestions of a physical transformation in Tsukune after the latest chapter. Particularly the color of his hair before and after the modification technique.
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Old 2011-05-04, 11:52   Link #19863
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Does hair really have anything to do with it? I'm sure the Shuzen family had an asssortment of hair colors. Moka had silver and pink, Akasha had a shade of red, Kokoa had brown I think, and Akua had black.
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Old 2011-05-04, 12:30   Link #19864
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It may not end up being his hair color that changes, but it may show in his eye color and type, he may end up with permanent red, slitted eyes like Ura. If not slitted then at least red, because it's shown that Moka's earlier life her eyes weren't always slits, so that's probably in indication potential power when entering a higher youki output stance.
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Old 2011-05-04, 13:25   Link #19865
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The thing about the hair color seems to be (aside from usual anime/manga odd hair colors) that because Moka was saved at childbirth by Shinso blood, it was the Shinso blood that turned her hair silver from an early age. Going back into that discussion again, if Moka hadn't been injected with Shinso blood, her hair color probably would've been the same as Akasha's- pink. This is evidence by when she's in Outer form, in which her hair is pink and Shinso blood is sealed away. When the rosario comes off, her Shinso blood is more or less being tapped back into, which is why it turns silver. So a lot of people think that because Tsukune has the Shinso blood running through him in a far less confined stage than before, his hair should also turn a different color

That, and shounen protagonists seem to undergo hair changes (whether color or style) when they get a power-up...
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Old 2011-05-04, 13:42   Link #19866
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
The thing about the hair color seems to be (aside from usual anime/manga odd hair colors) that because Moka was saved at childbirth by Shinso blood, it was the Shinso blood that turned her hair silver from an early age. Going back into that discussion again, if Moka hadn't been injected with Shinso blood, her hair color probably would've been the same as Akasha's- pink. This is evidence by when she's in Outer form, in which her hair is pink and Shinso blood is sealed away. When the rosario comes off, her Shinso blood is more or less being tapped back into, which is why it turns silver. So a lot of people think that because Tsukune has the Shinso blood running through him in a far less confined stage than before, his hair should also turn a different color

That, and shounen protagonists seem to undergo hair changes (whether color or style) when they get a power-up...
speaking of this. I had a theory concerning it but takes i a bit further. It might not just be the hair color that came as a result of the blood. Although it was stated that omote was just a aritificial personality that Akasha put in i think it might be that she is the true Moka and that Ura is actually the Shinso personality that came to be when Moka was first injected with the blood. Perhaps Akasha didn't realize since there was no room to tell since Moka was just a child at the time. Or perhaps she did but instead lied that it was an atrifical personality when she was really brining out the original Moka.
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Old 2011-05-04, 14:20   Link #19867
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speaking of this. I had a theory concerning it but takes i a bit further. It might not just be the hair color that came as a result of the blood. Although it was stated that omote was just a aritificial personality that Akasha put in i think it might be that she is the true Moka and that Ura is actually the Shinso personality that came to be when Moka was first injected with the blood. Perhaps Akasha didn't realize since there was no room to tell since Moka was just a child at the time. Or perhaps she did but instead lied that it was an atrifical personality when she was really brining out the original Moka.
Well, to me it seems like you, like Outer Moka's character, more then Inner Moka's, and want to make a theory, that is going to prevent Outer Moka from being an artificial personality - I'm not stating that you're theory is wrong, but for now, there is no evidence that you're theory is correct as well.

Of course, it could be possible that Ikeda is leading us astray with the whole Outer/ Inner Moka personalities deal, but until it's proven in some way in the manga, I will believe what had been stated in the manga so far - that Outer Moka is an artificial personality, while Inner Moka is the original one.
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:21   Link #19868
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
speaking of this. I had a theory concerning it but takes i a bit further. It might not just be the hair color that came as a result of the blood. Although it was stated that omote was just a aritificial personality that Akasha put in i think it might be that she is the true Moka and that Ura is actually the Shinso personality that came to be when Moka was first injected with the blood. Perhaps Akasha didn't realize since there was no room to tell since Moka was just a child at the time. Or perhaps she did but instead lied that it was an atrifical personality when she was really brining out the original Moka.
I find it more plausible to assume they're actually both real personalities, but Omote Moka is more like an incomplete personality, and it is in that aspect that she is "artificial," considering she is not the complete personality, whereas Ura Moka is. Fuhai-sensei mentioned that earlier on, when he was examining the seal, that it is not just designed to lock away all that is Moka, but only certain aspects of her. As a result, Omote Moka appears to be completely different than Ura Moka because only certain aspects of it are brought out into the open, and so those aspects are amplified while the seal is active. They are then juxtaposed by Moka's other aspects when Tsukune takes it off, like her cynicism, her tsundere character, etc. But as Chris said, that remains to be seen as the manga goes on.
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:23   Link #19869
Shinso Tsukune
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Omote = Artificial Moka
Ura = True Moka

Akasha knows that Ura-Moka is the original personality and the Omote-Moka is the one she created based of her own personality to protect Ura, with that being said i don't think there is more on this matter that we can further discuss.

Anyway, about the Holy Lock, doesn't it mention in the Theory that the ritual would give Tsukune's modified body magic/seal cancelling properties (it being permanent), just like that of the belmont whip, if this is true wouldn't that mean that any kind of seal would be useless (this also means the Holy Lock as well, if it's still active?
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:30   Link #19870
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Omote = Artificial Moka
Ura = True Moka

Akasha knows that Ura-Moka is the original personality and the Omote-Moka is the one she created based of her own personality to protect Ura, with that being said i don't think there is more on this matter that we can further discuss.
Dude, idk about you but I would really hate it if a character Ikeda worked so hard to build, a character that his protagonist is in love with, is just a fake that is doomed to be annihilated when the story is over. It'll be the anti-climax of the century if it's as simple as this.
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:38   Link #19871
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Well, like any theory, until it's proven in the manga, it still has a chance of being incorrect or only partially correct, so I don't think that you should take any theories, with a little grain of salt - shortly, speaking the theory that I posted earlier, hasn't been proven of being correct, since their hasn't been anything mentioned on how Tsukune's body works after he has underwent Tohou Fuhai's modification ritual - the only thing that we can be sure about, is that it had been changed.

Furthermore the theory that I posted earlier, was made using a rough translation of chapter 41, and I already seen some things translated differently in Muda's scans of the same chapter, so some of the things posted in that theory, might be wrong - we probably won't know, until the next chapter comes out, but since it doesn't seem like the ritual has changed anything about Tsukune's "mental problems" with his Shinso blood, which has a corrosive effect on Tsukune's "human mentality" when it's awakened, Tsukune is probably going to, still need to continue to wearing the Holy Lock, until he manages to resolve this particular problem, which is probably going to take some time to resolve.
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Old 2011-05-04, 17:13   Link #19872
Shinso Tsukune
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Dude, idk about you but I would really hate it if a character Ikeda worked so hard to build, a character that his protagonist is in love with, is just a fake that is doomed to be annihilated when the story is over. It'll be the anti-climax of the century if it's as simple as this.
I didn't mean that in a cruel way, i know how you feel about this, yes it does suck, but just because Omote-Moka is a created personality, shes real in both Ura-Moka's and Tsukune's eyes. Ikeda did work very hard on building her character and her role in the storyline is very important.

With what happened in chapter 27, Tsukune's hope of both Ura and Omote becoming one, means that Ikeda is going to merge the 2 personalities into one in the future of the series. The Rosary is what keeps Omote-Moka alive and without it she would disappear, as much as we don't like this we can't change it and even though the Rosary is fixed, in time it will weaken and eventually break, so Ikeda's plan to merge the 2 personalities is the only way to keep Omote-Moka from disappearing.

It doesn't matter if she is real, fake or artificial, if she is real to you than thats what counts.

So we mine as well dispose of the thought of Omote-Moka "disappearing", because it isn't going to happen, that much we can be certain
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Old 2011-05-04, 17:56   Link #19873
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I actually thought that Outer Moka is Inner's Moka's mother, Akasha. Except she lost her memories, that's why they look the same. That's why Outer-Moka should not be artificial person. But that's just my assumption so i dont have any proof of it.
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Old 2011-05-04, 18:23   Link #19874
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Lol.. I just noticed that one of the tags for this thread is "non-sparkly vamps." I hope it actually works to keep the Twilight fans out. :P
*raises his hand with a smile* that was me XD
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Old 2011-05-04, 18:48   Link #19875
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*raises his hand with a smile* that was me XD
Good Job, Kudos to you for that lol
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:08   Link #19876
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Well, there is also another issue that seems be be overlooked in that it may be possible that if Moka still has remnants of shinso blood in her. She too might have a hard time dealing with a full power release of her Shinso blood, and the only time she came close was that one time in the flashback, and the only reason she didn't go completely berserk was because she was taken prisoner and slowly being devoured by Alucard at that time. And that was probably the only time Moka was able to release completely without any kind of restraints.

It may be possible that if, or once the seal she wears is removed in it's entirety, she could risk going berserk as well if her own control falters. She may be experienced in fighting, but not to the point of overrunning her limits like Tsukune has. I think that there may be a possibility that if pushed far enough, Moka too would corrode the same way Tsukune has in the past if her mentality isn't prepared for that much power to pour through her.

Akasha has age and experience on her side for that, but I bet it took her some time to know her limits and how to come back once those limits were on the brink of being breached. Being a natural vampire helps, but being a shinso probably multiplies those stresses several times over.

Though I'm sure Akasha meant well in trying to have Moka go live a normal life, but I'm sure deep down she knew that it would be a temporary peace until Alucard woke back up. But Akasha's main failure in my opinion is that she hasn't sought out other powerful allies to see about putting together a task force to permanently kill Alucard. She's had 200 years to do it, but nope, she was more concerned about just keeping him contained and asleep, no plans beyond that.
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:24   Link #19877
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Omote = Artificial Moka
Ura = True Moka

Akasha knows that Ura-Moka is the original personality and the Omote-Moka is the one she created based of her own personality to protect Ura, with that being said i don't think there is more on this matter that we can further discuss.

Anyway, about the Holy Lock, doesn't it mention in the Theory that the ritual would give Tsukune's modified body magic/seal cancelling properties (it being permanent), just like that of the belmont whip, if this is true wouldn't that mean that any kind of seal would be useless (this also means the Holy Lock as well, if it's still active?
Ura Moka is only part of the true Moka. During her childhood, we saw her act completely childlike and girly in a way that the Ura Moka we know would never behave in front of Tsukune and the others.

While it's true that Omote Moka is based on Akasha, her memories with Tsukune are still a part of Moka and have nothing to do with Akasha. Memories and the environment are also a part of developing character and personality. Omote Moka may have the same mannerisms and disposition as Akasha, but whatever she feels towards her friends as Tsukune are real.

Omote Moka may disappear in the way that we may never see her pink hair again, but her certain aspects of her personality will inevitably show up in the "real" Moka when she regains all of her memories and the seal is removed.
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:39   Link #19878
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I had to open that can of worms again... my personal opinion on Outer vs. Inner- Outer is what Moka would have been had Alucard never played a factor in her young life. Inner is essentially the Shinso-influenced side of the original Moka.

But anyways, on Akasha's personal flaw- keep in mind that she thought he would be permanently sealed- she never foresaw herself having a daughter with the Shinso blood. Then when Moka did come around (only 17 years ago, mind you), Akasha dedicated herself to being a loving mother (and wife, depending on how long she had been with Issa). I doubt she had time to try to look for a way to defeat Alucard permanently. Not to mention, being given the status of Dark Lord probably meant there were very, very few youkai even more powerful than herself, Fuhai and Mikogami with the strength to take him down
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:51   Link #19879
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Well, I bet if perhaps they got a hold of a nuclear warhead and stuffed it into the basement with Alucard and then detonated it, that might kill him. But they would have to make sure that it was at least a 30 to 60 megaton bomb and placed in a way that all of Alucard's body would be vaporized in the initial flash of the blast. Though being inside a barrier, they would have to abandon and collapse it to prevent any residual fallout as a result, but if each barrier is self contained, then it's one of the best options because it wouldn't effect the human world or any of the other youkai regions.
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:59   Link #19880
Johnny
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Tsukune's new look. That smooch was hellapowerful..
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