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Old 2011-05-03, 04:09   Link #13461
solomon
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I think the Converatives managing a majority rather than a minority and the sudden NDP surge in the final weeks of the campaign are bigger surprises to most Canadians. The Bloc's support in recent years came not just from separatists, but also from federalists who were left leaning and wanted a left leaning counterweight to the Conservative party, but were pissed at the Liberals. These people were going to jump ship once they were once a federalist alternative was sufficiently well established in Quebec, and the NDP established itself as such this campaign.

As for the results... ugh. What's the point of electing a strong leftist opposition with a Conservative majority? It's not like Harper respect the opposition parties much even when he had a minority government.

We really need to either get proportional representation of some sort in the country (not happening) or merge the leftist parties. The latter is possible but with the NDP being so strong now I'd worry about it being too leftist - I prefer center-left politicians and I think they'd stand a better chance of siphoning votes from the Conservatives too.

Never had as much against the separatists as most Canadians, but still nice to see them go because it makes unifying the left easier. Kind of glad to see Ignatieff lose his seat - and likely, the Liberal leadership in the coming days - too, since while I identify as a Liberal, I'm a left leaning liberal, and he's too right leaning for my taste. Disappointed to see Ujjal Dosanjh lose in Vancouver South since he was always one of the strongest moderate voices in the Vancouver Sikh community.
So some comments and questions as a Yank;

Why were some Quebec federalists pissed at Liberals?

I take it that you are not a fan of the Tories huh? An interesting editorial in La Presse said that people should be wary of jumping on the "I kept Canada stable during the recession" bandwagon because apparently it was due to more STRINGENT financial regulations Canada didn't get in the same mess as we did. Policies in place BEFORE Harper.

Do you think seperatism is fizzled out in Quebec?

Why do you think Harper and his guys did so well, because he was good or the opposition just sucked that much harder?

Do you think the Libs will need to reinvent themselvs ala UK's New Labour or is the country still too Left to require that.

Sorry if the term "too left" is odd, I just use it as a relative term because down here there is such seething animosity towards central federal liberal ANYTHING that alot of your policies in Canada seem like something from Mars to most to Americans either in that they disaprove of it or are amazed that it could ever be legislated (cause it wouldn't in this country )

Also just to add, I one thing I am envious of is the electoral district system you all have, especially in it being administered and renewed by an independent body. THE RIDINGS ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE THE MAKE SENSE COMPARED TO OUR STUPID GERRYMANDERED DISTRICTS!
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Old 2011-05-03, 12:49   Link #13462
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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It's like in Britain, Labour or the Conservatives commonly get a majority government with less then 40% of the vote.

First past the post sucks. Everyone should switch to Irish PR. Tends to match actual percentages fairly well.

I think a party list, or mixed list/PR is better. All our politicians care too much about local affairs. Gives us a healthy contingent of independents though.
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Old 2011-05-03, 12:59   Link #13463
Ithekro
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In the United State there are many parties, but only two at a time (sometimes three) have any real backing from the people. Most other parties are considered too extreme or limited to get major backing outside small regions. Also within the two major parties there are actually subdivision that rarely get mentioned. The actual Republican and Democratic Parties are considered moderate with individuals that lean more left or right on one issue or another. The Republican Party is more to the conservative side of thing than the Democratic Party is Liberal at times, since there are Democrats that lean to the right more than to the left. That is partly because the more left leaning Republicans split the part in the early part of the 20th century and it has become difficult to get left leaning Republicans in since then due to the stigma left from Teddy Roosevelt's Progressives.

I'd actually like to see a return of the Progressives if they had a sustained Space policy.
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Old 2011-05-03, 13:10   Link #13464
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Why do you think Harper and his guys did so well, because he was good or the opposition just sucked that much harder?

Do you think the Libs will need to reinvent themselvs ala UK's New Labour or is the country still too Left to require that.
The Liberal have 2 problems; they still carry the weight of the commandite's scandal and they lack a good leader. Ignatief could have made a better Prime Minister than Harper but the electors have a bad image of him.
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Old 2011-05-03, 14:18   Link #13465
solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
In the United State there are many parties, but only two at a time (sometimes three) have any real backing from the people. Most other parties are considered too extreme or limited to get major backing outside small regions. Also within the two major parties there are actually subdivision that rarely get mentioned. The actual Republican and Democratic Parties are considered moderate with individuals that lean more left or right on one issue or another. The Republican Party is more to the conservative side of thing than the Democratic Party is Liberal at times, since there are Democrats that lean to the right more than to the left. That is partly because the more left leaning Republicans split the part in the early part of the 20th century and it has become difficult to get left leaning Republicans in since then due to the stigma left from Teddy Roosevelt's Progressives.

I'd actually like to see a return of the Progressives if they had a sustained Space policy.
Frankly speaking there needs to be more middle ground. I can deal with moderate Republicans but that's mainly on a local level. Only moderate democrats I know hail from state's breadbaskets or parts of dixie and the mountains. It's insufferable.
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Old 2011-05-03, 14:27   Link #13466
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Did they end up mudslinging each other with personal attacks instead of focusing on key issues during rallies and debates?
If I could vote directly for the next Prime Minister of Singapore, I'd choose Tharman Shanmugaratnam right away.

(The intro text is wrong, by the way. This speech was delivered today, May 3, at around noon in Raffles Place, the heart of Singapore's financial district.)

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Old 2011-05-04, 04:03   Link #13467
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
So some comments and questions as a Yank;

Why were some Quebec federalists pissed at Liberals?
In 1995, Quebec had a referendum on sovereignty. At the time, the sovereigntist movement was very strong, and the federalists won by only a very narrow margin (50.58% to 49.42%). Afterwards, the Canadian government launched an ad campaign to improve the Canadian government's image in the province (ie. highlighting projects in the province, etc.). The program ran until 2000, when it was suspended due to corruption allegations.

Around 2004, the Auditor General released a report on the program, finding that much of the money had gone to Liberal ad firms, with some contracts being for little or no actual work. While most of those involved (a small number of people in Public Works and the Prime Minister's office) had been replaced in a 2003 leadership shuffle, it still had a huge impact on the party's reputation. Prior to the scandal, the Liberals were polling 48%, this dropped to 37% in the 2004 election, dropping to 30% in the 2006 election due to continuing fallout from the inquiry into the scandal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I take it that you are not a fan of the Tories huh? An interesting editorial in La Presse said that people should be wary of jumping on the "I kept Canada stable during the recession" bandwagon because apparently it was due to more STRINGENT financial regulations Canada didn't get in the same mess as we did. Policies in place BEFORE Harper.
Yeah, when Harper became Prime Minister in 2006, he inherited a good set of banking regulations and an economy that was kind of on autopilot. Its perhaps accurate to say that the economy is still in good shape because Harper didn't change much - Liberal party supporters are more likely to go after him for his social policies and spending priorities than his economic management. We'll see if anything changes on that front in the next four years (I suspect they might).

For reference, BTW, one of my Political Science profs in university theorized that Paul Martin (Liberal PM from 03-06 with a background in running large companies, also former finance minister) may have wanted less banking regulation, but decided not to pursue it due to the need to maintain support from leftists, both in his party (leftist Liberals had their own ideas on who should run the party and never liked him much) and among voters (to prevent the NDP from grabbing fence sitters). It's hard to say if its true or not though.

One of my Political Science profs theorized that Paul Martin, the Liberal Prime Minister from 03-06, actually wanted to deregulate
Some people believe that Paul Martin (Liberal Prime Minister from 03-06) actually wanted less regulation on banking but

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Do you think seperatism is fizzled out in Quebec?
Yes. There's been a shift towards pursuing greater autonomy for Quebec within Canada in recent years.

The government also asked the Supreme Court to rule on whether Quebec could unilaterally separate after the 1995 referendum - the Supreme Court said yes, but only if a significant majority supported it. Generally this is thought of as being around two thirds - significantly higher than 1995 levels, let alone the ones you see these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Why do you think Harper and his guys did so well, because he was good or the opposition just sucked that much harder?
Both the Liberals (under Michael Ignatieff) and the NDP (under Jack Layton) ran good campaigns. However, I think Harper was able to portray himself as the most stable choice (being the incumbent and all), and also able to convince some people that another minority government would be unstable - and the Conservatives were the only party with a shot at a majority.

Second, while the Conservative's seats rose by over 16%, the actual rise in votes for them was less that 2% - but much of the came in swing ridings. In some of these ridings, I think the Liberal-NDP vote split on the left was a factor... there's a number of ridings were incumbent Liberal candidates lose by only a few percent.
was able to convince a lot of people that he was the most "stable" choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Sorry if the term "too left" is odd, I just use it as a relative term because down here there is such seething animosity towards central federal liberal ANYTHING that alot of your policies in Canada seem like something from Mars to most to Americans either in that they disaprove of it or are amazed that it could ever be legislated (cause it wouldn't in this country )
This is partly a legacy of the history of the two countries... while English Canada has adopted many American values over the years, historically our values were derived from Britain's... so "Peace, Order, and Good Governance". Even with the increase in American influence in recently years, we simply don't have the same distrust of government intervention Americans do. And while I don't claim to know a lot about Francophone Canadians, I get the impression they look to Europe for their values a lot of the time.

You could probably say that the Conservatives are the most American of the parties, the NDP basically a European socialist party, and the Liberals a mix of the two. Although technically the NDP is actually a homegrown movement, originating with Prairie farmers who wanted more social security during the Depression. Despite the modest seat counts, the NDP has been very influential just because the Liberals have often nicked their most popular ideas in order to prevent the NDP from siphoning off left-leaning votes. This is actually how we got a health care system in the 60s... it was an NDP policy that was adopted by the Liberal Party.
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Old 2011-05-04, 04:25   Link #13468
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
If I could vote directly for the next Prime Minister of Singapore, I'd choose Tharman Shanmugaratnam right away.

(The intro text is wrong, by the way. This speech was delivered today, May 3, at around noon in Raffles Place, the heart of Singapore's financial district.)
The thing is, I don't exactly feel like voting for any of them because they are making public nuisance of themselves shouting over their loud hailers on their technicals. Bunch of noise terrorists need to seriously shut up before someone plants a roadside IED to blow those damn trucks into the sky.

EDIT :

Most U.S. voters say "no" to Palin or Trump in 2012

Quote:
(Reuters) - Nearly 60 percent of Americans would never support a Republican presidential bid by former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin or real estate mogul and reality TV star Donald Trump, according to a new poll Wednesday.

But the Quinnipiac University poll of 1,408 voters found that about half would consider or be enthusiastic about backing former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney or former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee in the November 2012 election.

"It is difficult to get a handle on the 2012 Republican race. Many contenders are not well known and many who are known are not liked," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

"Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee are in the best shape. Sarah Palin and Donald Trump suffer from the reality that, as our mothers told us, 'You never get a second chance to make a first impression,'" he said.

Trump, who has been testing the waters for a possible 2012 run for the Republican presidential nomination, said he would announce something before June -- after his reality TV show, "Celebrity Apprentice," ends its season on May 22.

Palin was the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee and is keeping her supporters guessing on whether she will run.

Among the 613 Republican and independent Republican-leaning voters, the poll showed Romney as favorite to win the Republican presidential nomination with 18 percent, followed by Huckabee and Palin with 15 percent and Trump with 12 percent.

Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels and former House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich each have 5 percent, while former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty and Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann and both on 4 percent.

The margin of error for that subset was plus or minus 4 percentage points.

The telephone poll, conducted between April 16 and May 1, was released on the eve of a debate in South Carolina among a handful of potential Republican candidates, none of them high-profile names.

The error margin for the larger group was 2.6 points.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2011-05-04 at 10:24.
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Old 2011-05-04, 14:23   Link #13469
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
And while I don't claim to know a lot about Francophone Canadians, I get the impression they look to Europe for their values a lot of the time.
As one ''Québequois'' ( ''quebequer'' if you prefer ), I would say yes and no. It was much like than before even thought the link with France is important, a comparaison with californians or newyorker might be better, especialy for the regions around Montréal.

For the Francophone outside the province of Quebec, I can't really tell; at the exeption of the New-Brunswick they only form a small part of the population.
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Old 2011-05-04, 14:25   Link #13470
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Trump, who has been testing the waters for a possible 2012 run for the Republican presidential nomination, said he would announce something before June -- after his reality TV show, "Celebrity Apprentice," ends its season on May 22.

Palin was the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee and is keeping her supporters guessing on whether she will run.
please run,


i will burnt some porn as offering if it would help.
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:40   Link #13471
solomon
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Er, I don't get it are you for Palin and or Trump running or are you joshing?
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Old 2011-05-04, 15:42   Link #13472
Xellos-_^
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Er, I don't get it are you for Palin and or Trump running or are you joshing?
i am for them running, should be more entertaining then watching cats plying the piano.
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Old 2011-05-04, 19:06   Link #13473
yezhanquan
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The thing is, I don't exactly feel like voting for any of them because they are making public nuisance of themselves shouting over their loud hailers on their technicals. Bunch of noise terrorists need to seriously shut up before someone plants a roadside IED to blow those damn trucks into the sky.
Share the same thoughts, but only because both sides are missing the point. Any system will have exploits/loopholes. It is up to the individual to find niches to position himeself/herself to live and fight another day. All the advertising for their systems is, quite frankly, not good to make the individual "grow up" and make their own decisions.
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Old 2011-05-04, 21:33   Link #13474
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Share the same thoughts, but only because both sides are missing the point. Any system will have exploits/loopholes. It is up to the individual to find niches to position himeself/herself to live and fight another day. All the advertising for their systems is, quite frankly, not good to make the individual "grow up" and make their own decisions.
The thing is, they are all fighting for themselves rather than for the Singaporeans they claim to. Two issues brought forward by NSP in their manifesto, which is contesting in my area, are clearly bullcock. Reducing GST and NS length? That is clearly retarded.

GST shouldn't be reduced, not at least for the long term because most of our infrastructure upgrading and maintenance projects are funded by domestic investment, and the capital for that comes from the GST. Sure it may be small, but add up purchases of daily commodities and it snowballs into a few million.

The problem of rising prices are due to external factors (Dr Breen in the West and the idiots in MidEast), not because of the damn GST. I don't know if the opposition are factose intolerant, or are simply using it to an advantage to discredit their rivals.

Secondly, I am against reducing NS to a timespan of below 22 months. Our training syllabus is already goddamn jammed packed without even enough time to practice our tactical drills - not even enough time for training that our weekends have to be burned constantly just for the training. And then, a sudden announcement of a test? With the disincentive of extras? That is ridiculous!

Housing is a big issue because we have 5m people and way too little flats. The government needs to take steps to reduce the number of property developers building condominiums, and substitute them for more HDB flats.

Whichever guy pointed out about cutting manufacturing jobs is clearly stupid beyond words. Manufacturing creates tons of jobs because of something called the "assembly line" - we just need to create higher value products like computer chips and wafers. And come to think of it : there are tons of open positions in our maritime and shipbuilding sector, but why isn't anyone taking that up?

Another thing NSP has been harping about is the "monopoly of power". I don't see what is wrong with a power monopoly if the government does its best to serve its people, a dictatorship can be benevolent if the government fights for a win-win situation every time. Besides, the "monopoly of power" took us from the third world to the first while the country that kicked us out 46 years ago is suffering from a sovereign debt crisis, how bad can that be? Someone seriously needs to plant a roadside bomb to take out their bloody noise-polluting vans spouting nonsense and formenting unrest.

The PAP is really getting an Alzheimer's disease. Have they forgotten how to govern their country already? Listen to the people and work to satisfy them, no matter how hard it is going to be. They gave out scholarships and high-level government positions to fools who can't do anything else other than in school and sucking up. The floods along Orchard Road is a good example of the old guard lying on their laurels - if you want to pave a stretch of land with concrete, make sure there are big holes underneath. Otherwise, leave the plants alone to absorb the water.

Also, they could have worked underground to screw the property speculators who do squatting (buying houses and not living in them). Suddenly announcing funding plans while they are tanking their property at high prices will make property prices plunge as they rapidly try to clear their assets should be a good measure to ease up living place. Redirect their attention to funding malls and shophouses below the flats through ROI schemes should increase business ventures as well as restructuring of marketplaces for the better of the residents in that area.

This election is clearly a group of factose intolerant, self-serving, two-faced bastards plying for power. Makes me rethink that if my right to vote is actually a repackaged liability like the Euro-debt bond.

And it is my first time voting too. What a joke.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:36   Link #13475
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
All SOE MMO games and associated web portals/forums/shops are now down (in addition to the PS3 network compromise explosion)

http://maintenance.station.sony.com/

If you play any of these... you *might* want to keep an extra eye on whatever credit/debit card you use. With these big corporations underspending/understaffing on security measures for their customer accounts - those prepaid cards are starting to look like a 'better plan' for consumers.
Well.. I went ahead and canceled the card I was using for SOE-related gaming. Meh, it was due for replacement in six months anyway.
So far, SOE is giving everyone one free month plus a day per day of down-age.

Last edited by Vexx; 2011-05-04 at 23:06.
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Old 2011-05-05, 01:56   Link #13476
SSIlanya
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Not to be outdone by America.
Quote:
A chief Al-Qaeda operative, Doger Sevdet, known under the alias Abdulla Kurd, has been killed in the North Caucasus by Russian law enforcement. A Turkish national, he is credited with being the international co-ordinator of the region's terror cells.

A Turkish passport has been discovered at the scene, the National Antiterrorist Committee (NAC) said on Wednesday. The document is said to contain Azerbaijani, Pakistani and Georgian visas.

A major result of this operation, according to NAC officials, is the disruption of the connection between the militants operating in Russia’s North Caucasus and Al-Qaeda.

Doger Sevdet took part in the planning and organization of mass terrorist attacks, assassinations and killings of citizens and law-enforcement officials, as NAC stated.

According to Federal Security Service (FSB) files, the militant arrived in the North Caucasus via Georgia’s Pankisi Gorge back in 1991.
http://rt.com/news/qaeda-terrorism-killed-chechnya/
Bless all the Russian fighting to help annihilate terrrorism.
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Old 2011-05-05, 02:35   Link #13477
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSIlanya View Post
Not to be outdone by America.


Bless all the Russian fighting to help annihilate terrrorism.
I think the Cold War evolved into "who kills the most terrorists" competition. The Russians should parade through St Petersburg with his head like the olden Viking/Cossack times.

If you want to be a terrorist, be a terrorist in Europe or US. The politicians waste more time wrangling about what to do with you after they catch you than spend time doing so, while the Russians simply kill you first, then discuss about the ramifications.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-05, 02:53   Link #13478
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think the Cold War evolved into "who kills the most terrorists" competition. The Russians should parade through St Petersburg with his head like the olden Viking/Cossack times.

If you want to be a terrorist, be a terrorist in Europe or US. The politicians waste more time wrangling about what to do with you after they catch you than spend time doing so, while the Russians simply kill you first, then discuss about the ramifications.
Given their methods, I am not sure than they would have heads in enough good shape to be used in a parade...
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Old 2011-05-05, 02:57   Link #13479
flying ^
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i guess this guy didn't want a house call from the SEALs...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenv...di-arabia-says
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Old 2011-05-05, 03:41   Link #13480
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
As one ''Québequois'' ( ''quebequer'' if you prefer ), I would say yes and no. It was much like than before even thought the link with France is important, a comparaison with californians or newyorker might be better, especialy for the regions around Montréal.

For the Francophone outside the province of Quebec, I can't really tell; at the exeption of the New-Brunswick they only form a small part of the population.
I kind of assumed the more French sounding term was more accurate, although I've generally seen it spelled "Quebecois".

I didn't mean to imply that Quebec's values are more European than North American, just that European influence is stronger in Quebec than the rest of Canada. Or so I've heard - you might know better than me.

This article suggests that most of Harper's gains actually came from Toronto area Liberal incumbents losing just enough support to the NDP to let Conservatives squeak through... kind of matches what I saw looking at some of the riding results from that area.
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