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Old 2011-05-06, 22:49   Link #601
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
It was a GTFO move in the sense of getting him the hell away from WB (and it did just that). He was protecting his captain. Jozu's Brilliant Punk involves turning his arm into diamond. That's just the way it is. And what are you talking about that it didn't hurt Croc? Blood came out of his mouth and he was on the ground still recovering from the blow.

Why are you trying to quantitatively measure the difference in fighting blows here? That's not even important. Croc was repeatedly punched through layers of bedrock, and that was enough to finally put him down. That's high damage soak right there. Despite Jozu being leagues above Luffy, one Brilliant Punk won't be enough to put down Croc. It takes a decent amount of effort to put someone of warlord caliber down.

Croc would have undoubtedly lost to Jozu. Jozu is faster, stronger, adept at Haki usage, and has better feats overall. This is one of WB's top subordinates we're talking about.



The two bold statements of yours contradict each other.

Just because Croc may be weaker than some of these top guys doesn't mean that he would get absolutely slaughtered in a fight. It seems you're having trouble understanding this.



For someone of Croc's "level", yes it's possible. Obviously the aforementioned characters you listed are stronger than him; and by powerscaling, Luffy won't be able to beat them no matter how much circumstances play in his favor. Those guys are all top tiers; Croc isn't.

But again, just because Croc is weaker than those elites doesn't mean that he can't hang with them for a while. He was chosen for a reason by the WG to become a warlord. And all of his brief exchanges with those characters were just that: brief exchanges. That doesn't properly tell you how a real uninterrupted fight would go down between the fighters in question.



Yes, it is speculation. But even so, the fact of the matter is that Mr.1 was fodder for Mihawk. Plain and simple. And the slash Mihawk threw at WB was much more powerful than the one Mr.1 deflected.



And your assessment is incorrect, for reasons I've already explained.

This argument is going nowhere. You're the only one who believes Croc got stronger, whereas myself and others have already provided in-depth explanations as to why that's not the case. But feel free to believe what you want.
I never said Croc got stronger. That would imply that he actually did something to gain this strength. My problem is that he is stronger for no apparent reason. But you're right, this argument, as do most, is clearly going nowhere.

However, I do concede that due to the ongoing presence of brain fart, some facts about the first fight did slip my mine (like the fighting only with his hook thing). Nevertheless, it still seems a little sketchy to me.
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Old 2011-05-07, 02:51   Link #602
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I never said Croc got stronger.
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Originally Posted by cheese4u View Post
Here's my opinion as to why Crocodile is stronger now:

1. Arrogance, didn't take Luffy seriously enough when they fought.
2. Lack of will power, Crocodile's will seems a lot stronger now than before.
3. No one knows his weakness.
4. May have gotten stronger in prison
Really?
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Old 2011-05-07, 12:57   Link #603
cheese4u
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Really?
Did you even read my last post? I highlighted the words "got" and "is" for a reason.
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Old 2011-05-30, 04:27   Link #604
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I have one topic about Crocodile too. Sorry if someone has discussed it a long time ago, as it is regarding the prison arc, but I'll post it anyway.

Why do you think Crocodile is allowed to retain his golden hook even in the 6th level prison?

The sea stone handcuff won't stop its function as a weapon and so potentially dangerous. They surely can easily cut it off from Crocodile's arm.

It shouldn't be too gore, considering lately we see many severed limbs, like Shiki the Golden Lion amputating his legs or Doflamingo cutting Oars Jr. leg as well.
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Old 2011-05-30, 12:55   Link #605
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^It's not a big deal. I think it's more of Oda wanting to keep one of Croc's physical trademarks. Besides, Croc would know better than to try and kill the other inmates in his cell. Everyone on Level 6 of Impel Down is very dangerous. The worst criminals reside there, after all.
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Old 2011-05-31, 07:36   Link #606
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And if I'm WG, I don't care if they kill each other in the cell, hell, I would rather them kill each other off. After all they are criminals that WG didn't want the entire world to know.

Speaking of this, one of the things I've notice is how well WG has control the info so far. Granted, they has some mishaps (WB and Roger's declaration) but in general they do a pretty good job in conceal info (especially outside of Grand Line). I mean, and well-informed as Nami is, She didn't know how influential Shanks is when Garp talked about him back in Water 7
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Old 2011-05-31, 08:42   Link #607
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By dangerous I mean of him escaping one day. Impel down has a bad history of having shiki escape, and they could have been more careful by cutting off his hook.

The existence of the hook can make a lot of difference. Imagine if during marineford arc he doesn't have his hook anymore and can't find any worthy replacement, his power would be greatly reduced in the war. There is also a likelihood he won't stand a chance to hold Mihawk, who at that moment would have been able to damage luffy and mr 1 further. Who knows what will happen next if Mihawk successfully subdue luffy.

Beside, considering the hook is croc trademark, i think by cutting it off would have damaged his pride. Isn't that what the marine wants? Making the prisoner feel lose and hopeless forever while they rot in the prison?
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Old 2011-05-31, 10:53   Link #608
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Shiki was an one time deal. I wouldn't call 1 escapee in 800 year as having bad history.(assuming it was built the same time as WG founded)

The fact is Impel Down was still called the un-escapable jail before Luffy's and BB's break in is testament to that. Besides, even if Croc escapes, he'll have to take over a battleship and can only end up in either Marine HQ or Enis Lobby assuming be can somehow get the Gate of Justice to open for him.

Hell, if not because of the Summit War and the fact Laffitte hypnotized the guards to open the gate for their (BB) own escape, Luffy and co. wouldn't be able to escape that easily, They didn't have Shiki's Fuwa Fuwa no Mi that allow him to fly.



As for hook thing, that's just leave it as plot device, after all, with WG wanting the world to forget the existence of those lvl 6 prisoners, they should have just secretly execute them to begin with, why lock them up? WG has done enough questionable stuff that secret execution should be a no-brainer.
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Old 2011-08-02, 10:35   Link #609
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im pretty sure oda has said that there will be no romance in onepiece so i dont think hes planed any love relationships for any of his characters,
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Old 2012-03-07, 19:40   Link #610
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Thought I bump up the old Shichibukai thread so that maybe some of the discussion would move here.

So most recently, Trafalgar Law has been revealed to be the 5th schikibukai
We still have Mihawk, Boa, Kuma, and Doflamingo... that gives us 2 seats left

Now everyone is expecting Buggy to take the 6th seat because of the messenger bat he received after the war. It would certainly be in buggy's interests to accept such a position if offered. It would help him avoid fighting that might prove him to be a fraud. So if Buggy really did get the seat that makes one spot left. Who will it be? Seems like there is a reasonable chance that it could be somone new; i mean when i look at the current crop of pirates, i feel like their aren't too many decent candidates.


My guesses, assuming its not somebody new...

Hawkins- He had the next highest bounty after Kidd and Luffy. Only downside would be that we saw him loose badly to Kizaru which kind of damages his cred a bit, despite how things might have changed in the 2 years.

Bonney- Last we saw she was captured by Akainu after being beaten by blackbeard. Agreeing to work for the world government does sound like what one might offer to be released. Granted, her defeat to blackbeard might also be seen as damaging to her credit like Hawkins; but maybe their is some story potential here considering how it seems possible she and akainu might have some history.

Marco- Really out of left field theory. I have no idea how the government might be able to force him to be a shichibukai as doing so would seriously go against his character, but I'd find it to be deliciously tragic; being forced to work for the poeple who killed his pa... real insult to injury.
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Old 2012-03-07, 20:58   Link #611
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^ I'm more leaning towards the 7th seat being filled by a new character we have yet to meet. I recall Oda saying that there will be a character with an eyepatch that will be very important to the story later on, so perhaps this mystery person would be a good candidate? We'll find out in due time.

Marco becoming a warlord would be an interesting twist, but I really don't see him selling himself out to become a government dog. Doing so would bring shame to the WB pirates, and he would be dishonoring the memory of Whitebeard and Ace. Moreover, how would the shichibukai position behoove Marco? Most likely, he's going to try to make Teach pay for his crimes, but will ultimately fail in the end. The shichibukai position doesn't really facilitate Marco's goals in any way (assuming that his goal(s) is to get revenge on Blackbeard).
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Old 2012-03-08, 15:55   Link #612
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Yeah, Marco becoming a warlord doesn't feel right to me, either. I mean, the only reason why the government had offered Ace the position at all was because they were unaware that he was the pirate king's son, so why would they accept the "son" of the pirate who was closest to becoming PK after Roger (who was actually well-known, unlike Blackbeard)?


As far as other supernovas go, after Law I'd say that Drake would be the most likely to be granted amnesty. After all, he was even a former marine (a rather high-ranking one at that), so the government may be a bit more willing to accept him back under their wing. But this is assuming that he didn't integrate himself into Kaidou's crew or something like that......


But all in all, I'd also say that it's most likely that the last new shichibukai is a new character altogether.

Last edited by marvelB; 2012-03-08 at 16:13.
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Old 2012-03-08, 16:29   Link #613
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Marco becoming a warlord would be an interesting twist, but I really don't see him selling himself out to become a government dog. Doing so would bring shame to the WB pirates, and he would be dishonoring the memory of Whitebeard and Ace. Moreover, how would the shichibukai position behoove Marco? Most likely, he's going to try to make Teach pay for his crimes, but will ultimately fail in the end. The shichibukai position doesn't really facilitate Marco's goals in any way (assuming that his goal(s) is to get revenge on Blackbeard).
Well yes, hence why i called it an out of left field theory... like I was implying, Marco would have to somehow be FORCED to take the position. Like for instance maybe the whitebeard pirates have found themselves on hard times in the past 2 years; hundreds of pirate crews in the new world started picking at WB's territories and Blackbeard in particular was most quick about stealing the land away. Slowly but surrely the crew may have found itself being picked away bit by bit by numerous opportunistic and vengeful crews; in addition to akainu's ruthless pursuits. Marco himself may have even suffered greatly by challenging Blackbeard and loosing. In the end, Marco finds himself forced to take the shichibukai to help protect his crew.

But even that kind of scenario has serious faults considering how Marco would probably soon die than serve the WG (making it about sacrifsing himself to save the others makes it slightly more plausiable), and then there is also the possiblity of them being able to turn to shanks if things looked bad... and we know shanks would help them

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Yeah, Marco becoming a warlord doesn't feel right to me, either. I mean, the only reason why the government had offered Ace the position at all was because they were unaware that he was the pirate king's son, so why would they accept the "son" of the pirate who was closest to becoming PK after Roger?
Well the reason they feared Ace and Luffy is because they feared they would become as strong as their fathers. Marco however does not share that biological connection to WB and thus may not ever come close to being like him. Hell the fact that Marco was not able to take a spot amongst the Yonkoucould validate that he is not as big of a potential threat like a future dragon or future gold roger. Marco still has a fierce reputation and is a powerful fighter. Plus bringing marco into their fold might help further the significance of the government's victory over the pirates.

Quote:
As far as other supernovas go, after Law I'd say that Drake would be the most likely to be granted amnesty. After all, he was even a former marine (a rather high-ranking one at that), so the government may be a bit more willing to accept him back under their wing. But this is assuming that he didn't integrate himself into Kaidou's crew or something like that......
I would doubt Drake would want to be a shichibukai... afterall, he left the marines before becoming a pirate so I would not think that he would want to take up a job that would mean serving the world government again
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Old 2012-03-11, 14:20   Link #614
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Well yes, hence why i called it an out of left field theory... like I was implying, Marco would have to somehow be FORCED to take the position. Like for instance maybe the whitebeard pirates have found themselves on hard times in the past 2 years; hundreds of pirate crews in the new world started picking at WB's territories and Blackbeard in particular was most quick about stealing the land away. Slowly but surrely the crew may have found itself being picked away bit by bit by numerous opportunistic and vengeful crews; in addition to akainu's ruthless pursuits. Marco himself may have even suffered greatly by challenging Blackbeard and loosing. In the end, Marco finds himself forced to take the shichibukai to help protect his crew.

But even that kind of scenario has serious faults considering how Marco would probably soon die than serve the WG (making it about sacrifsing himself to save the others makes it slightly more plausiable), and then there is also the possiblity of them being able to turn to shanks if things looked bad... and we know shanks would help them
I very much doubt that entire scenario. Even without WB, Ace & Thatch and with somewhat lower numbers compared to what they had entering the war, they're still the most powerful Pirate crew in the world outside the 4 Emperors..with the likes of Marco, Jozu & Vista plus the 11 other commanders remaining, they're still a formiddable foe which is why the Gorousei mentioned Marco & the WB crew along with Kaidou, Shanks or Big Mam as being the only ones capable of stopping BB's advance into the NW.

That being said, I don't see Marco & his crew going after BB even if they do want revenge - they're not idiots, they know they can't beat BB, and are probably placing their bet on Luffy to be the one who will take him down.

This idea of Marco being a Shichbukai does make sense to me, evne though i doubt he did. Outside the Emperors, they're still the most powerful crew out there - and given the fact he has status already and is amongst the elite pirates of the world, he'd make a very good choice - in return for Amnesty for his crew....

Though with Akainu in charge - that doesn't seem likely to happen since they got in his way and prevented him from implementing justice...against Dragon's son
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Old 2012-03-11, 14:35   Link #615
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Though with Akainu in charge - that doesn't seem likely to happen since they got in his way and prevented him from implementing justice...against Dragon's son
It's the World Government that ultimately makes the final decision on that, not the marines.
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Old 2012-03-11, 20:36   Link #616
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I don't think Buggy is a Shichibukai.
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Old 2012-03-11, 23:45   Link #617
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I very much doubt that entire scenario. Even without WB, Ace & Thatch and with somewhat lower numbers compared to what they had entering the war, they're still the most powerful Pirate crew in the world outside the 4 Emperors..with the likes of Marco, Jozu & Vista plus the 11 other commanders remaining, they're still a formiddable foe which is why the Gorousei mentioned Marco & the WB crew along with Kaidou, Shanks or Big Mam as being the only ones capable of stopping BB's advance into the NW.

That being said, I don't see Marco & his crew going after BB even if they do want revenge - they're not idiots, they know they can't beat BB, and are probably placing their bet on Luffy to be the one who will take him down.
Well you see this may come as an issue of the whitebeard pirates spreading themselves out too thin. Its possible that WB controlled more territories than he could properly handle. The reason he was able to control them was because of the power of his name. The vast majority of pirates were too scared to touch anything with his name on it, so he rarely had to exert himself to defend those territories. But as we saw after the war, Marco does not command that same fear; the moment WB died, pirates all over the new world started to cannibalize his territories. Marco would now have to work to take them all back, but with the number of places being attacked he might have to split up his forces; each commander and captian going off with their division. While Marco, Jozu and Vista might be able to take back their land, some of the commanders and WB allies might find themselves returning in defeat. Hence why Marco's crew might find themselves getting slowly picked apart.

Blackbeard himself would make life difficult... as they go to take back control they could easily run into him and his crew as BB started with WB territories. Hell its even possible that BB might go so far as to try and hunt down the commanders so that Marco would be unable to take back those areas that BB claimed.. blackbeard may not even be the only one; their could be a number of silver medalitist still in the new world(or who escaped from impel down), who might target the crew out of spite for whitebeard


Quote:
That being said, I don't see Marco & his crew going after BB even if they do want revenge - they're not idiots, they know they can't beat BB, and are probably placing their bet on Luffy to be the one who will take him down.
Why should we assume they do not believe that could beat BB? Sure he may have stolen WB's power, but BB himself did not come off as unbeatable, considering how WB wrecked him even when he had one foot in the grave; the admirals put up a better fight against WB and marco and Jozu were about on par with them. He might have beaten Ace, but Marco could be another story. Hell, you yourself pointed out how the World government believed that Marco and the Whitebeard pirates might have been able to deal with BB; why shouldn't Marco himself believe the same?

Furthermore, Blackbeard did not end his offences agianst them with Whitebeard and Ace... He is also aiming at WB's Territory; and if WB picks Territory like Luffy does, then that would mean that BB is still aiming at WB's allies... and the WB pirates don't let anyone harm their allies.

So ya, i could easily see Marco taking a shot at BB

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I don't think Buggy is a Shichibukai.
The leading reason people believe buggy to have become a shichibukai is that after the war he received a message from the world government via carrier bat. We saw the same bat in jinbei's flashback when he was offered the position
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Old 2012-03-12, 13:01   Link #618
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I don't think Buggy is a Shichibukai.

Yeah, I just wanted to direct you to here in case you missed/ignored it. And yeah, what SlayerX pointed out about the bat.


BTW, I'm personally still hoping that Buggy got a massive bounty hike whether he accepted the warlord position or not. As I said in the past, the fact that he was specifically pointed out as Luffy's accomplice during the ID prison break is reason enough for a raise. Personally, I'm hoping his price gets shot up to the 500 million range, though I guess having around the same price as Luffy/Law is good, too.



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Why should we assume they do not believe that could beat BB? Sure he may have stolen WB's power, but BB himself did not come off as unbeatable, considering how WB wrecked him even when he had one foot in the grave; the admirals put up a better fight against WB and marco and Jozu were about on par with them. He might have beaten Ace, but Marco could be another story. Hell, you yourself pointed out how the World government believed that Marco and the Whitebeard pirates might have been able to deal with BB; why shouldn't Marco himself believe the same?

Furthermore, Blackbeard did not end his offences agianst them with Whitebeard and Ace... He is also aiming at WB's Territory; and if WB picks Territory like Luffy does, then that would mean that BB is still aiming at WB's allies... and the WB pirates don't let anyone harm their allies.

So ya, i could easily see Marco taking a shot at BB

Maybe he meant that that Marco and the remaining commanders would have some degree of trepidation about going after Blackbeard's crew now. After all, if we take Jinbei's story at mermaid island into consideration, Teach has been stocking up on DF powers and pretty much conquered all of Whitebeard's territory in the NW. Heck, maybe he even shared some of those fruits with his crew. There's pretty much zero doubt that he's become an even greater force to be reckoned with than he was before the skip. So frankly, I wouldn't find it so surprising that even someone as mighty as Marco is wary of what may happen if he squares off with his former comrade now....
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Old 2012-03-12, 14:41   Link #619
Slayerx
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Maybe he meant that that Marco and the remaining commanders would have some degree of trepidation about going after Blackbeard's crew now. After all, if we take Jinbei's story at mermaid island into consideration, Teach has been stocking up on DF powers and pretty much conquered all of Whitebeard's territory in the NW. Heck, maybe he even shared some of those fruits with his crew. There's pretty much zero doubt that he's become an even greater force to be reckoned with than he was before the skip. So frankly, I wouldn't find it so surprising that even someone as mighty as Marco is wary of what may happen if he squares off with his former comrade now....
Well remember we are talking about what may have gone on during the timeskip; as in anywhere between now and 2 years ago. Yes today Blackbeard is know as one of the yonkou, controls most of WB's Territory and is gathering devil fruits, but that wasn't the case 2 years. 2 years ago is when the World government thought Marco might be able to stop BB's advance and 2 years ago is most likely when Marco would have tried to deal with BB if he wanted to. Hell should we really think that Marco sat back and did nothing while BB was taking all of the former WB land; knowing whitebeard, many of the inhabitants of those islands may have been friends of the WB crew.

Not to mention its very telling that Marco not only did not manage to rise up as a yonkou, but that it was Blackbeard and not the Whitebeard pirates, that now control most of Whitebeard's Territory. As formidable as they were, it sounds like the whitebeard pirates may have fallen from their once very high place in the past 2 years.

heh, not to mention that if BB is hunting for powerful devil fruits, i might expect the Phoenix fruit and the Diamond fruit would be on his list. Some real terrible things may have happened in these past 2 years.
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Old 2012-03-12, 18:15   Link #620
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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It was noted by Jimbei that Blackbeard acquired Whitebeard's territories almost immediately after Whitebeard's death. As stated already, it's unlikely that Marco would stand idly by and allow that to happen, so most likely he has already tried and failed to stop Blackbeard.

The shichibukai position only grants amnesty. The World Government doesn't try to pick fights with the emperors because doing so would be very exhausting/depleting on their resources. That being said, if Marco were to become a warlord, he'd have to accept the position for something else other than trying to take down Blackbeard; he wouldn't be given any protection and neither would his crewmates.
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