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Old 2011-05-10, 14:10   Link #13601
Ithekro
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Now if that a real "dim view" or just politics talking?
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Old 2011-05-10, 14:29   Link #13602
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
White House takes dim view of Boehner debt plan
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7484FT20110510
Wait 2 Trillion with a T in spending cuts? That's over half the federal budget. You are not getting that without heavy, heavy cuts to social security, medicare, medicaid, and the military.
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Old 2011-05-10, 15:43   Link #13603
james0246
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^It's probably 2 trillion over 10+ years...or at least that's how the politicians generally word their economic discussions ("we will save/lose X Trillion dollars if we follow Plan Y"; etc).
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Old 2011-05-10, 15:55   Link #13604
Ithekro
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Ten years would be about right. Then if it succeeds or fails it can be pinned on whoever is the President just coming into office in 2021, or as the main platform of the 2020 election.

of course...one wonders about the zero curse on US Presidents (the one where every Presidetn elected in a year ending in year will die in office). Reagan supposedly broke it at the cost of his mind (deal with the Native American nation that reportedly put that curse on in the first place), and Bush survived his presidency, but we got hit by 9/11. What's up for Mr. President elected in 2020?
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Old 2011-05-10, 16:41   Link #13605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Ten years would be about right. Then if it succeeds or fails it can be pinned on whoever is the President just coming into office in 2021, or as the main platform of the 2020 election.

of course...one wonders about the zero curse on US Presidents (the one where every Presidetn elected in a year ending in year will die in office). Reagan supposedly broke it at the cost of his mind (deal with the Native American nation that reportedly put that curse on in the first place), and Bush survived his presidency, but we got hit by 9/11. What's up for Mr. President elected in 2020?
the world will end in 2012, no need to worry about 2020.
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Old 2011-05-10, 16:45   Link #13606
Ithekro
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The Mayans said that's not how their calander works....so no end in 2012. Renewal perhaps...ending, no.
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Old 2011-05-10, 16:58   Link #13607
SaintessHeart
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That 2T is to maintain their status as the world largest economy. The problem is that, the assets backing the USD are so lean and questionable that nobody dares to use it as transaction, so no amount of "quantitative easing" or "stimulus" is going to help - they have already broken the trust of investors.

In Macroeconomic terms, it is called liquidity trap. Though I don't know how something can be liquid when the pieces of paper issued it driven by the demand for more of it, and most of those who demand it seem to contribute less than what it is worth - resulting in its constant dilution of actual worth through the ages.

If bartering isn't that tedious and time-consuming, I would have totally be for screwing the USD or any other currency in favour of that.
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Old 2011-05-10, 17:58   Link #13608
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^It's probably 2 trillion over 10+ years...or at least that's how the politicians generally word their economic discussions ("we will save/lose X Trillion dollars if we follow Plan Y"; etc).
Doesn't sound like it from the article though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
That 2T is to maintain their status as the world largest economy. The problem is that, the assets backing the USD are so lean and questionable that nobody dares to use it as transaction, so no amount of "quantitative easing" or "stimulus" is going to help - they have already broken the trust of investors.

In Macroeconomic terms, it is called liquidity trap. Though I don't know how something can be liquid when the pieces of paper issued it driven by the demand for more of it, and most of those who demand it seem to contribute less than what it is worth - resulting in its constant dilution of actual worth through the ages.
Except people, companies, and countries are using the USD for transactions. Not as much as before, thanks to the rise of the Euro, but it has its own problems. It's not a liquidity trap until it actually stops investment, and it hasn't. Of course that not as much as before part gets very little coverage in US media.

Also that 2 trillion increase to the debt cap would be unnecessary if they'd just raise taxes. It's impossible to get a balanced budget without doing so, and US federal taxes are at the lowest level since the WWII.
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Old 2011-05-11, 01:39   Link #13609
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Except people, companies, and countries are using the USD for transactions. Not as much as before, thanks to the rise of the Euro, but it has its own problems. It's not a liquidity trap until it actually stops investment, and it hasn't. Of course that not as much as before part gets very little coverage in US media.

Also that 2 trillion increase to the debt cap would be unnecessary if they'd just raise taxes. It's impossible to get a balanced budget without doing so, and US federal taxes are at the lowest level since the WWII.
The thing is, how can you tax someone who has little or no money? Especially that the middle class is sinking in their finances, raising tax doesn't exactly solve problems

And guess what, those guys at Wall Street, despite their questionable work ethics, are right :

Exclusive: Wall Street says cuts alone won't fix budget

Quote:
(Reuters) - A majority of top Wall Street bond dealers and money managers say spending cuts alone cannot solve the U.S. budget problems and tax increases must be part of the mix.

In a Reuters survey conducted on Tuesday, 17 out of 29 fund managers and economists representing major Wall Street bond dealing firms said the Republicans' favored option of spending cuts alone would not a work.

The good news for politicians is that big Treasury market players say they have a couple of months to hammer out a solution. Twelve out of 23 surveyed said the government had until the end of July before the bond market would start to worry.

The bad news is any deal requires a compromise between anti-tax Republicans and Democrats, who support social spending programs known as entitlements -- positions that each side is holding onto dearly ahead of 2012 elections.

A middle path is needed, Wall Street said.

"I would ask Republicans to come up with new revenues that don't undermine incentives to work and invest. And I would ask Democrats to recast entitlements in a way that doesn't compromise the social safety net," said Bob DiClemente, head of U.S. economic and market analysis at Citigroup in New York.

Nine of the respondents said a deal could still be credible without dealing with the popular but huge entitlement programs, Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid before the 2012 elections.

Eight said such a deal would not be credible and the rest did not answer.

Politicians the past week have talked of pushing these hot-button issues off the table until after 2012, making them a campaign issue. Standard and Poor's warned last month that a credible medium-term budget deal needs to be in place by 2013 or the United States risks is gold-plated, triple-A sovereign debt rating, which keeps its borrowing costs low.

PREACHING TO THE CHOIR

The United States is expected to hit its $14.3 trillion legal limit on how much it can borrow on May 16. Republicans have tried to link any rise in the debt ceiling with a deal to narrow the budget deficit, which they worry is approaching unsustainable levels.

To avoid a showdown, the U.S. Treasury says it can hold off until August 2 before defaulting on the nation's debt.

A default would be a cataclysmic event for the U.S. economy, its financial markets and, probably, for the rest of the world.

Republican congressmen began making visits this week to Wall Street to stump for their budget reform proposals, which aim to cut the budget deficit with spending cuts and no tax hikes.

The survey showed their pitch may fall on sympathetic ears. Most primary dealers, or 7 out of 11 of the Wall Street firms who answered the question, said they favored spending cuts as the main method of tackling the budget deficit.

Four who answered wanted tax hikes in the mix.

In contrast, of the money management firms in the Reuters survey, which oversee nearly $2 trillion in investments, 13 favored a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes.

Primary dealers are critical to pricing of U.S. debt. They bid at U.S. government bond auctions and are authorized to deal directly with the Federal Reserve and the Treasury to help distribute U.S. debt to investors.

OPPORTUNITY FOR A RIOT

Even with the debt limit looming and specter of default not far off, most of the investors are taking a sanguine view of the problem in the near-term.

U.S. 10-year Treasuries are yielding 3.22 percent -- well below their average of 6.75 percent over the last 30 years. Any worries about the budget would most likely emerge in the bond market in the form of rising yields.

Of the fund managers and primary dealers surveyed, 12 out of 23 said the government had until the end of July before the market started to worry.

A small group of respondents to Reuters' survey thought a budget deal would not be reached until the end of August.

"I do not believe that many expect near-term action on the key entitlement programs," said Michael Moran, chief economist at Daiwa Securities in New York.

However, they also said politicians should not take the market's patience for granted.

"I think the opportunity for the markets to stage a riot is going to be elevated because this is not going to get done before the very last second and it's not going to be done in a way that's very satisfying to markets," said Mitch Stapley, chief fixed income officer, Fifth Third Asset Management in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Fifth Third has $17 billion in assets under management.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-11, 01:50   Link #13610
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The thing is, how can you tax someone who has little or no money? Especially that the middle class is sinking in their finances, raising tax doesn't exactly solve problems

And guess what, those guys at Wall Street, despite their questionable work ethics, are right :

Exclusive: Wall Street says cuts alone won't fix budget
Why of course you give them credit cards, make them believe it's real money, then tax the hell out of what they do have .
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Old 2011-05-11, 01:54   Link #13611
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Why of course you give them credit cards, make them believe it's real money, then tax the hell out of what they do have .
You mean tax or non-prime interest for the cards?

Wait never mind. In US sometimes those two things are not mutually exclusive, considering WHERE those monies go to anyway. *sarcastic*
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-11, 01:59   Link #13612
iLney
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If you think the pie can't get bigger, all suggestions here are mere cannibalism.
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Old 2011-05-11, 03:00   Link #13613
ganbaru
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China eases trade rules, allows U.S. fund sales
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7480DO20110511
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Old 2011-05-11, 03:13   Link #13614
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
China eases trade rules, allows U.S. fund sales
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7480DO20110511
Quite ironic that China decides to open up trade with the US during a period where the people are encouraged to pay tribute to the greatness of China
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Old 2011-05-11, 06:59   Link #13615
sa547
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Damn.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...w-2282364.html
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Old 2011-05-11, 07:46   Link #13616
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post

Except people, companies, and countries are using the USD for transactions. Not as much as before, thanks to the rise of the Euro, but it has its own problems. It's not a liquidity trap until it actually stops investment, and it hasn't. Of course that not as much as before part gets very little coverage in US media.

Also that 2 trillion increase to the debt cap would be unnecessary if they'd just raise taxes. It's impossible to get a balanced budget without doing so, and US federal taxes are at the lowest level since the WWII.
Tax revenue alone has no chance of equaling our debt when you count our unfunded liabilities. Unfortunately it's going to take both tax hikes and cuts, which definitely isn't a pill anyone wants to swallow.
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Old 2011-05-11, 09:21   Link #13617
Roger Rambo
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Well, that's politics for you. Lower taxes and increase spending.
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Old 2011-05-11, 10:57   Link #13618
GundamFan0083
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Forbes Predicts U.S. Gold Standard Within 5 Years

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43439
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Old 2011-05-11, 11:33   Link #13619
Ithekro
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Well....Goldfinger would be pleased.
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Old 2011-05-11, 16:26   Link #13620
flying ^
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community activists are at it again.....

forcing businesses to into risky, money-losing ventures

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8031594062.htm
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