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View Poll Results: AnoHana - Episode 5 Rating
Perfect 10 46 52.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 27.27%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 14.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 4.55%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.14%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-05-19, 02:52   Link #181
cyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
To me, her works seem to suggest that she lacks sufficient insight on real human emotions and predicaments, and therefore relies on tropes to carry her stories. It's fine to me if that's what fans in general want. Hell, why would I want to convince anyone to dislike what they enjoy?

But, by the same token, don't turn around and try to convince me that any of such tropes are "realistic". They just aren't, not within the context of this particular drama, because there simply has not been enough development to explain how it could have taken such a drastic turn.
I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.
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Old 2011-05-19, 02:56   Link #182
deadite
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So the hate bandwagon has arrived huh? I guess no show is exempt.... It just another "the show is not going the way I want it to and not conforming to my views so It must be flaw" school of thought.
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Old 2011-05-19, 03:15   Link #183
cyth
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The show doesn't have to be realistic to be enjoyable. Personally, I love making fun of all these broken characters, especially Poppo. However, based on that, I don't think it's deserving of the praise it's got so far.
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Old 2011-05-19, 04:09   Link #184
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by deadite View Post
So the hate bandwagon has arrived huh? I guess no show is exempt.... It just another "the show is not going the way I want it to and not conforming to my views so It must be flaw" school of thought.
Should practice reading comprehension, because clearly you have very little of it.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And, pardon me, I just find it incredibly implausible for an otherwise normal guy to regress into cross-dressing just because he misses a dead friend terribly. It's the kind of plot device that works only within the sphere of anime. If I were to show AnoHana to viewers who are unfamiliar with anime, I am 99% certain that Yukiatsu's predicament would draw far more WTFs than sombre understanding.
I'm pretty sure most people here thought "wtf" with Yukiatsu's behavior. Both the posters and Yukiatsu in the show himself, stated that he's sick in the head. If you're saying that you don't find it plausible that someone can be sick in the head for something like this then well, there's not much to say. But while people expresses sympathy for him because of his inability to move one, I don't think anyone here thought that cross dressing was an understandable way to cope with it. It was played up to shock value. Some weren't bothered by it, but obviously you were. So it simply didn't work for you, and I respect that.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
That's a problem I notice I frequently encounter with Mari Okada's screenplays. In True Tears, she threw in the trite device of sibling incest, both as a red herring and as an incredibly implausible plot development to drive a wedge between a pair of characters. However, within the anime community, such devices are easier to digest, because it happens so frequently that fans have long since learnt to shrug it off, accepting it as normal.

To me, her works seem to suggest that she lacks sufficient insight on real human emotions and predicaments, and therefore relies on tropes to carry her stories. It's fine to me if that's what fans in general want. Hell, why would I want to convince anyone to dislike what they enjoy?
I guess it's a matter of viewpoint, but I often find her scripts not very reliant on the usual tropes and overwrought melodrama, so it's why I tend to enjoy some of her works. Ano Hana specifically manages to play very well on the right chords of nostalgia for many people in the audience, and it's the reason people were able to be so emotionally attached to the characters from the getgo in episode 1. To me, that demonstrates a nice understanding of human emotions.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
But, by the same token, don't turn around and try to convince me that any of such tropes are "realistic". They just aren't, not within the context of this particular drama, because there simply has not been enough development to explain how it could have taken such a drastic turn.
Forgive me but could you clarify which specific tropes in Ano Hana bother you besides Yukiatsu's cross dressing and perhaps Memma in general?

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And the major problem for me is that Menma the ghost is an incredibly annoying distraction from the so-called "realism" displayed by the rest of the cast.

Menma is an actual entity instead of a haunting memory. Her very presence in every episode saps attention away from far more interesting developments, such as revelations of how Anaru is growing as a character, even as Jintan remains pathetically stuck in a hikkikomori rut (let's be honest, he hasn't grown much since the beginning of the series).

If Menma were a stronger character, I may not have minded as much. But as she is at the moment, she inspires sympathy but not empathy. To me, she's like pretty wallpaper. She's cute, sure, but that's about all we can say about her right now. She's there to tug at heartstrings, effectively so, but there's little we have seen about her to allow us to understand why she is the way she is and how she intends to move on. That draws tears, true, but it most definitely does not inspire understanding, at least not for me.
I'd have to agree with this actually. It's the main flaw of this anime, and why I can't see it in any way, perfect.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Of course, I would reiterate that I fully understand that it's all subjective. That said, I would appreciate if people don't brush off valid criticism as a simple refusal to suspend disbelief. How well a viewer is able to do that depends as much on the storyteller as it does on the viewer managing his own expectations.
I certainly hope no one does. I think most of what you are saying is perfectly fair.

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.
I'm sure you may not find it necessarily relateable, but there is an error you've made here. First, what do you define as "moving on?" When does a person "move on?" Is it simply, not letting interrupt you living life? Is it to not let it bear any weight on your mind? I'm sorry, but if losing a dear friend doesn't bear any weight on someone's mind, then that is something I find implausible. I n regards to continuing ot live life? Tsuruko, Anaru, Yukiatsu, Poppo have all done just that. It's only Jintan who has let his life completely slide away.

What I find especially disagreeable here are your insinuations that this is some otaku wish fulfillment. Maybe I missed it, but is this some sort of harem anime ? Get real here.

Growing apart from your friends earlier in your life is something that MANY people can relate to. It is not limited to Otakus. It certainly manipulates the audience into nostalgia, but that isn't a bad thing. That makes it all the more relateable for some people. How many people out there have ever felt disappointed about past friendships got awry?

Sure, you might be able to call this anime some sort of wish fulfillment. A desire to go back to how things once were for people. A fairy tale reunion of sorts. But if you're seriously going to sit here and tell me that this only applies to Otakus, then that's simply ludicrous.
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Old 2011-05-19, 04:12   Link #185
guuchan
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Are you sure? 0_o
Most of your points (and assumption) there also surround whether Menma really exist or not....
Eh, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Menma being a hallucination or ghost didn't matter anymore in my conclusion there, and I even speculated that there would possibly be no revealing of the answer at the end of the show.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Realism is not about being real.
Realism (noun)
...a way of thinking and acting based on the facts of a situation and what appears to be possible, rather than on hopes for things which are unlikely to happen.
The key concern in any work of fiction is plausibility. Without establishing a plot that is plausible, suspension of disbelief becomes that much harder and that, in turn, makes it difficult for viewers/readers to enjoy the fiction, particularly fiction that seeks to be "realistic" rather than "fantastic".

And, pardon me, I just find it incredibly implausible for an otherwise normal guy to regress into cross-dressing just because he misses a dead friend terribly. It's the kind of plot device that works only within the sphere of anime. If I were to show AnoHana to viewers who are unfamiliar with anime, I am 99% certain that Yukiatsu's predicament would draw far more WTFs than sombre understanding.
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.
"Implausible". Apparently friendship doesn't work the same way for you, so don't stereotype yourself now. As I mentioned in my first post of this show, I also had a close friend among a group of friends who passed away, a couple years ago. Me and another friend visit his grave at least 2-3 times every year, and it is still ongoing, even though that other friend has already married a year ago. Seeing that we are all guys, I'd imagine the feelings could be more complicated if that friend were a girl. Why do you think we're doing that? Because we did't just move on in the sense that "oh, he's dead, okay. Just another person disappeared from this world". We moved on in lives alright, as the majority of the characters in Anohana did, but our feelings didn't just "move on". That deceased friend will always be with us - in our thoughts, in our conversation, in our daily lives.

Now, is crossdressing as the deceased friend going a bit too far? Is seeing a hallucination of your deceased friend a bit too much (let's just assume she's a hallucination here for argument's sake)? Maybe. But, sreaming out loud for God's sake, this is an anime. This is a drama. We have seen way more unrealistic stuff in other animes, we have seen way more dramatic elements in other dramas, so what is up with this talk about realism? What is realism to you anyway? Something that you have to have experienced, something that you have to be feeling?

As for Memna's setting, my comment so far is: she's acting like her age when she died alright. Could the character be better designed? Maybe. But I definitely wouldn't want to see her appearing all mature, i.e. being a mature character guiding her friends. Now that would be bad. Her appearance alone has already served the purpose, it's up to the living characters to figure out the rest themselves.
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Old 2011-05-19, 04:31   Link #186
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Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
"Implausible". Apparently friendship doesn't work the same way for you, so don't stereotype yourself now. As I mentioned in my first post of this show, I also had a close friend among a group of friends who passed away, a couple years ago.
Are we going to reduce this to a sob story, trading mutual woe-is-me experiences to justify our points of view?

I lost my father, in my early 20s, when I was still in university, just as our relationship as father and son was turning for the better. I carry regrets that will stay with me for as long as I live.

So... don't go around dissing people, thinking they have not experienced as much "pain" as you do. That said, my condolences, of course.

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Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
Now, is crossdressing as the deceased friend going a bit too far? Is seeing a hallucination of your deceased friend a bit too much (let's just assume she's a hallucination here for argument's sake)? Maybe. But, sreaming out loud for God's sake, this is an anime.
Precisely my point. None of the major plot devices driving this show's tragedy would work outside of anime. AnoHana is effective as anime drama, but does not have, in my opinion, sufficient legs to carry it beyond the insular confines of this genre. In that sense, I strongly feel that much of the praise it is getting is unjustified.

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Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
This is a drama. We have seen way more unrealistic stuff in other animes, we have seen way more dramatic elements in other dramas, so what is up with this talk about realism? What is realism to you anyway?
For a start, watch something like Colorful, recommended by Reckoner, who, as far as I know, also enjoys AnoHana, much more than I do anyway.

Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in AnoHana.

Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.

Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums is built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.
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Old 2011-05-19, 05:19   Link #187
guuchan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Are we going to reduce this to a sob story, trading mutual woe-is-me experiences to justify our points of view?

I lost my father, in my early 20s, when I was still in university, just as our relationship as father and son was turning for the better. I carry regrets that will stay with me for as long as I live.

So... don't go around dissing people, thinking they have not experienced as much "pain" as you do. That said, my condolences, of course.
I said that because a certain someone here suggested that the ones enjoying this show are otakus with darkness in their heart, not being able to move on in their lives (which is not true for the characters anyway). I didn't start it. *raise both hands up with innocent look*

Besides, my point was - and it's a point in general, not directed to you, TinyRedLeaf - just because you can't find yourself feeling the same as the characters feel, it doesn't mean it's not realistic. Don't stereotype yourself. I find myself understanding the characters' feelings, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Poppo maybe a bit too happy-go-lucky, Yukiatsu maybe a bit too indulged in his memories of Menma... other than Tsuruko, they are all "a bit over", but that doesn't make it unrealistic. It just becomes a bit more dramatic, that's all.

Quote:
Precisely my point. None of the major plot devices driving this show's tragedy would work outside of anime. AnoHana is effective as anime drama, but does not have, in my opinion, sufficient legs to carry it beyond the insular confines of this genre. In that sense, I strongly feel that much of the praise it is getting is unjustified.
Other than the dramatic settings (and geez, it's not that dramatic. Now Yukiatsu is just crossdressing - what if he acted like a girl too? Pretending to be like Menma more than just the outlook? Are you going to curse this show if you haven't already?), I find this show pretty realistic so far. I don't get what wouldn't work... the hallucination/ghost? Friends who don't go crazy after finding out one of them is a crossdresser?

Quote:
For a start, watch something like Colorful, recommended by Reckoner, who, as far as I know, also enjoys AnoHana, much more than I do anyway.

Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in AnoHana.
To be honest, I don't see how the hallucination/ghost is dominating the show. Screentime-wise she's getting quite some, but she's not really the plot-pushing device. As I said already, her appearance alone has already served her purpose, acting as a opportunity for something to happen to her group of living friends. So far there hasn't been any major change to the characters yet - when they do, I would expect more screentime for them gradually.

Quote:
Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.

Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums are built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.
Erm, same words returned to you. I admit I'm posting in this show's thread because I like the show, and usually I will finish the show once I decide to keep it unless it becomes really unbearable somewhere along, but it doesn't mean I will neccessarily end up finding it a good show just because I like the beginning. To me, Anohana got a good start, it's climbing, and I will give my criticism if it ever goes downhill like I did to some other shows. In that sense, I'm definitely on the more objective side - my opinion might change, while it seems you already got your judgment down for this show.
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Old 2011-05-19, 06:37   Link #188
cyth
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'm sure you may not find it necessarily relateable, but there is an error you've made here. First, what do you define as "moving on?" When does a person "move on?" Is it simply, not letting interrupt you living life? Is it to not let it bear any weight on your mind? I'm sorry, but if losing a dear friend doesn't bear any weight on someone's mind, then that is something I find implausible. I n regards to continuing ot live life? Tsuruko, Anaru, Yukiatsu, Poppo have all done just that. It's only Jintan who has let his life completely slide away.
None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.
Quote:
What I find especially disagreeable here are your insinuations that this is some otaku wish fulfillment. Maybe I missed it, but is this some sort of harem anime ? Get real here.
I guess this is why otaku are eating it up, because most of them are oblivious to its main manipulative trick. Obviously, I'm stereotyping here just a little bit, but... real otaku do not live admirable lives. There's nothing great about being a basement dweller spending most of your time on the internet, watching anime, playing games and ordering merchandise. I've been there, and let me tell you this: it is not the image that Danny Choo is trying to sell you.

Why I categorize AnoHana as wish fulfillment is because it lets the relatable Jinta realize all of his former friends still have issues on the same topic of internal conflict as he has. Yukiatsu's crossdressing wasn't as shocking as it was grotesque in comparison to Jinta's problem. I can see the show playing out in the same manner for the rest of the cast, with Jinta as the main spectator of each character's breakdown.
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Old 2011-05-19, 08:29   Link #189
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How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth? I know I'm not and I don't really relate to him. I care about him, tho, and about the story and the other characters, myself (yeap, even Yukiatsu). So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.

And I have no problem with the "supernatural" part, either. Doesn't really matter, as long as it's a good yarn, for me. Maybe I'm wrong?
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Old 2011-05-19, 09:09   Link #190
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.
I believe Reckoner had mentioned this already, but such things are inevitable, especially for the two characters, Jintan and Yukiatsu, who believe they were responsible for Menma's death. It isn't a simple matter of, "Oh, my childhood crush died. Now I'll do ridiculous things to overcome my sorrow." They both believe they killed Menma.

That being said, cross-dressing is still a very strange idea, and something that definitely needs explanation. I'm going to reserve judgement on it until I understand completely why it happened. I don't think people can just attribute it to Yukiatsu being sad though.

Tsuruko and Anaru don't seem to have exaggerated problem with Menma's death. Tsuruko so far only mentions it as something that has already passed, and Anaru shows a reasonable amount of sentiment [I'd say she's more stuck on how Jintan is affected by her death] for someone close who passed away five years ago. We still don't know much about Poppo, but he seems to take the, "Bringing back Menma," thing as something that would be good, not something that would cure his emotional scars.

If anything, I'd say that the only reason it seems like every character is so bothered by it is because we see things from Jintan and Menma's point of view.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in AnoHana.

Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.
If anything, I'd say the problem lies in your use of the term "realism", rather than any sort of subjective view. It's entirely plausible in the circumstances that these characters find themselves for the self-cognitive ghost to wonder why she can only interact with one person and for this character to want her old friends to bond again.

I can accept that Yukiatsu cross-dressing is really unrealistic [again, I'm personally suspending judgement] and I can accept that you don't like how involved Menma is with the drama [a lot of people have already said that they were bothered how the plot wouldn't have moved forward without Menma], but I don't understand how Menma being so involved in the drama is unrealistic.

Edit: Just to explain, when you say, "That's the kind of 'realism' I enjoy, which I find lacking in Anohana," it suggests that supernatural elements that don't dominate the story is the only kind of realistic supernatural story. I don't believe how supernatural elements affect drama has anything to do with realism [in the context we're discussing it, anyway].

Also, I will check out that recommendation. Thank you.

Last edited by OceanBlue; 2011-05-19 at 09:21.
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Old 2011-05-19, 09:50   Link #191
cyth
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.
Neither does Mad Men purposely target women who just like seeing good-looking men in decent suits, but primarily it's a modern male power fantasy. I was specifically talking about why otaku are eating it up.
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Old 2011-05-19, 09:54   Link #192
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Originally Posted by idiffer View Post
and why is everyone still doubting that menma is a ghost? we see her withought jinta being anywhere near her.
Why does everyone here seems ignorant of umineko? Perhaps I'll explain again briefly, how the "Schrodinger Box" concept works in cases like these. Simply put, a "Schrodinger Box" themed story revolves around: looking at particular results and interpolating possible events that could've lead to said conclusions. Umineko used witches and magics to explain the murders in the story, AnoHana used the phenomenon called "Menma". However, AnoHana didn't play it like Umineko did. It only replicates a smaller aspect of it.

For instance, Jintan eating that cake? It could be made by him, and then ate it himself while reminiscing his mother and Menma. The door at Menma's house? It could be that it was actually loose and a wind blew it open. People feeling weight around their shoulders? It could really originated from fatigue. Jinta knew about the hairpin? It is possible that Jinta stopped running and looked at the confession scene for a while, and resumed running afterward. Every single scene with Menma in it can be explained without her actually taking part in it (at least, so far).

Though again, this is merely theory. Menma could really be a corporeal ghost that only Jin can perceive. The point is that this theory is as plausible as the Jintan=idiot theory.

However, I can tell that this is a story about a group of people trying to move on with their lives after a tragedy befell them all. Any other thing is really just spices to freshen things up a bit, and it's best not to dwell too much on them.
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Old 2011-05-19, 10:23   Link #193
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums is built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.
The plot devices are clearly manipulative, and the problems you mentioned about Menma are spot on - they make the series almost like a chick-flick.

On the other hand, I think many of us enjoy the series for its human interactions. I think whether one will ultimately enjoys this series really comes down to which aspect of the show is more important to you.

As a side note, I found Colorful unbearable - just a personal opinion.
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Old 2011-05-19, 11:13   Link #194
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How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth?
Yes, though no where near his level. But you're right. I'm sure you don't need to actually experience their pain to empathise with them.

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Controlled experiments. Sure, if you're so inclined, you can always come up with alternative explanations. Even if they have to become progressively sillier as evidence piles up. But really, do the Busters look like they're that reticent to believe in Menma's ghost?
Fair enough. The group would certainly be willing to believe it, though the doubt will always be there and they are somewhat less inclined to change.

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Well, it would make a rather large difference on whether he should get himself checked into a hospital or not...
I doubt he would get himself checked into a hospital anyway.
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Old 2011-05-19, 13:36   Link #195
Reckoner
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How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth? I know I'm not and I don't really relate to him. I care about him, tho, and about the story and the other characters, myself (yeap, even Yukiatsu). So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.

And I have no problem with the "supernatural" part, either. Doesn't really matter, as long as it's a good yarn, for me. Maybe I'm wrong?
I think it's silly to disregard the show's attempts to play up on the nostalgic chords of its audience. That's what makes this show relateable. Has everyone gone through Jintan's pain? I would think most of us have not lost one of their dear friends and their mother while growing up, while feeling guilty for causing his friend's death. But since when does the audience ever have to actually go through the troubles of a character to empathize and understand? With this logic, there are almost no relateable characters in anime .

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.
Well 3 of them feel like they caused Memma's death. I think Jintan is obvious because of this and his mother's death, that he really isn't happy. Yukiatsu has an inferiority complex with Jintan. Anaru likes Jintan and is pained to see him in such a situation. I think they all have very plausible reaosns for still being a bit miserable, 10 years down the road.

The ball is still out on Tsuruko. Poppo doesn't seem miserable. In fact, he seems like the one character to not be emotionally scarred to death by this all incident.

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I guess this is why otaku are eating it up, because most of them are oblivious to its main manipulative trick. Obviously, I'm stereotyping here just a little bit, but... real otaku do not live admirable lives. There's nothing great about being a basement dweller spending most of your time on the internet, watching anime, playing games and ordering merchandise. I've been there, and let me tell you this: it is not the image that Danny Choo is trying to sell you.
All I'm saying is that this trick doesn't just apply to otakus. It's not what I'd call specifically otaku pandering which only works on otakus. It's something that has broad appeal. Usually, otaku pandering is something general audiences would find annoying due to lack of understanding, or even being offended by some of those elements.

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Why I categorize AnoHana as wish fulfillment is because it lets the relatable Jinta realize all of his former friends still have issues on the same topic of internal conflict as he has. Yukiatsu's crossdressing wasn't as shocking as it was grotesque in comparison to Jinta's problem. I can see the show playing out in the same manner for the rest of the cast, with Jinta as the main spectator of each character's breakdown.
And that's fine. I don't deny that this show is supposed to play up on that. It's emotionally appealing precisely because many people have experienced the distancing of old friends when they grow up. While the show surely goes to extremes to portray this (Yukiatu's cross dressing), the underlying thoughts are still there.

We still don't know how the rest of this show will play out, but I don't think anyone is as screwed up as Yukiatsu and Jintan (I certainly hope not). There's no real indication of that.
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Old 2011-05-19, 17:20   Link #196
Guardian Enzo
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I sympathize with you, TRL, as someone who had major issues with Bakemonogotari and Eden of the East (just to name two). Once a show is popular enough to get a sub-forum there comes a point of diminishing returns in dismissing it's worth outright - it's an upstream swim.

That said, I happen to think you're completely wrong about this one - it's easily the best show of the season for me (and maybe the year so far). I have no issues with Menma as a plot device and I think this is more or less a classic example of magical realism brilliantly executed. And frankly, it's nice - though quite disorienting - for me to be on the same side as public opinion for once...
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Old 2011-05-19, 18:20   Link #197
CWW
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I can relate to Jinta because I lost my mother as well. Moreso because I can see her in my dreams once in a while even now. That's largely the reason why how Menma is used doesn't bother me much. It's a plot device, one that is far from realistic, I agree, but I can mostly see through it as Japanese storytelling and focus on Jinta's and everyone's struggles, as that is the main focus of the story. You can call it wish-fulfillment, but I dearly hope Jinta and the rest will have a special place for her in their hearts and won't forget her even if they've moved on, because that would be the saddest thing.

Well, everyone except that sicko Yukiatsu.
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Old 2011-05-20, 10:48   Link #198
BetoJR
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Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics, then. I don't find Jinta relatable, but I am sympathetic toward him and the other characters. In the end, I guess it's still the same feeling, yes?
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Old 2011-05-24, 07:51   Link #199
Rushberry
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Love Hotel on this episode is real

too bad the image link is dead so the image don't appear

but this is the link : http://s2.kimag.es/share/59138701.jpg (yeah, this link is dead)

Last edited by Rushberry; 2011-05-28 at 08:59. Reason: image link is dead lol
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Old 2012-06-25, 18:40   Link #200
bananapills
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There's something I really don't understand in this episode, when Naruko "Anaru" Anjō and that dirty guy are standing in front of the love hotel he says something like: "Wouldn't it be a waste though? They're black aren't they?"
What is he talking about?
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