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Old 2011-05-17, 04:45   Link #161
Haak
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Episode 18.

Ami gets it spot on when she says Ryuuji worries about "not knowing if that man will treasure her as much as you do" but I also think she puts a bit of a spin on things by comparing it to a father and daughter relationship in the hopes that Ryuuji might be turned off and consider someone else (like Ami) instead.

And Taiga giving presents to children? Makes you want to squee doesn't it?

And I'm pretty sure that star Minori broke that she wants to fix was meant to to symbolise something...
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Old 2011-05-20, 14:34   Link #162
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Episode 19

Ohhhhhhh snap!! The legendary episode. Seriously, there is so much emotion in this single episode, it's amazing. And I'm not just talking about Taiga's crying, but Ami and Minori had their moments too. I think I was hoping for a non-Taiga ending at this point just to break the mold... but I was just deluding myself, lol.

And I really didn't like Ami and Tagia's dresses or hair.

Lastly, note how we learned that Yasuko ran away from home in some serious ill will.
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Old 2011-05-20, 15:02   Link #163
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probably one of my favorite scenes in the series.
finally hearing taiga admitting her feelings. so great
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Old 2011-05-21, 09:34   Link #164
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I watched episode 19 the same day I watched episode 18 of Clannad After Story. Left me in a strange euphoric high for days. Anyway so as not to sound redundant on one of the best RomCom episodes I have ever seen, I stand by the very same post I talked about more than 2 years ago.

Quote:
What makes Taiga for me for me stand at amongst a whole slew of characters of a similar character build (Tsundere, but not really so much of that) is that unlike the others, we are given some insight and backstory that givs some weight as to why her personality is as such and why she acts that way to Yuuji to some degree. Now I personally don't think she's Tsundere as most people seem to say she is, but she does share some similar traits, but as a whole she's more different than that.

Taiga is a very, very, very, really really flawed character. Even if her traits are similar to many other characters of the same archetype, she isn't like that for some default reason of by some completely sadistic personality disorder. She has a bit more backstory from what I've seen in the series (and purely the series, never read the original material), and backs it up with consistent action and language. Granted the past 2 episodes are a bit of a deviation, but she does state some plausible reasons for suddenly being nice which is a polar opposite expectation to how she would be acting even though it's Xmas, again pointing out her own inner conflicts in terms of how she "genuinely" treats other people. She's already selective enough as it is.

Her violent and anti-social attitude is perhaps deeply rooted in her anger towards her father and towards a feeling of betrayel she gets from people she'd have thought really cared about her. Even if people truly cared, with the exception on Minorin, she still acts the way she is.

From a Psychiatric POV this is a typical defensive technique to shield oneself from hurt and harm by being unapproachable and eccentric. At the same time these people are also the ones crying out loud for someone to love them, but their defensive stanced prevent them from reaching this.

Taiga is almost a classic example of this. I would know, I used to be like her.

I think one of the reasons why she acts like a bitch towards Yuuji is that Yuuji, to some extent, acts like sort of a "father figure" type to Taiga. Yuuji is genuinely a caring and loving person, one of the very few genuinely real anime characters of that type I've seen in recent years. That said, we all know of Taiga's history with her father. She hates the bastard for understandable reasons. I doubt she truly understands to have a caring male figure, most likely having had an absent or irresponsible father most of her life. She treats him like crap, rightfully so, and doesn't perhaps truly understand what it means to have someone "caring" over her.

I'd think she had spent most of her life looking out for herself. Besides Minorin anyway, she's never had a an adult figure and someone to truly rely on. Remember how she laments that she fears she'll never have someone care over her, thinking that the men in her life never gave a damn about her. She has some probably dislike for men, or at least some fear, which extends towards her crushes. Towards that she is suddenly all hesitant, shy and reserved, a far cry from her violent and aggressive self. The only man to have really cared for her was Ryuuji.

Which is why about at around the end of the father arc I think I finally understood why she treats Yuuji as she does:

She sees Yuuji as an extension of her father, thus a father figure, and as such treats him like crap. And yet, as the conflict in herself manifests to us, she is unable to respond and integrate well to the fact that Yuuji is indeed, very much different than her father is. That Yuuji is unlike any caring man that she seen before, she simply does not know how to act. She would simply treat him as she treats her father, but he is obviously a person far from him.

I see her conflict enough as it is. Many scenes were shown of her being dumbfounded enough as it is that Yuuji is nice to her despite her abuse. She clearly isn't well adjusted to this, and like a maladjusted person reponds typically with disdain. But as the series progresses, despite her usual violence, I can see some appreciation in her eyes.

She's slowly warming up to him. She is, in short, slowly learning.

The years of neglect and potential man/father hate is slowly disappearing. She has never appreciated what it meant to have someone care for her, despite her longing for one, because she never grew up with it. She never truly understood, because she was not given the chance. The first time she felt what it was like to have someone care for her almost without recompense was Yuuji. She didn't understand, she didn't know, she could not notice, and thus couldn't appreciate. But she found herself on that street, crying out his name, because she finally realized what it was to truly have someone watch over her.

This, I think, is what makes her the penultimate example of her character type.

And with that, with her heartfelt realization, tells me no other person deserved Yuuji more than her.
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Old 2011-05-21, 09:48   Link #165
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HEY! You can't do that. You cannot be thinking to same exact thing, come on. What about knowing what was going to happen? That didn't change your perspective?

I first said:
Quote:
Okay.. EPIC episode. I voted 10. My jaw dropped when they sang on the stage together. That teddy bear was lame but the lame was the win in itself. He should have went to Minorin first and then to Taiga but obviously that wouldn't have worked for many reasons. Now I think its Ami's turn with Ryuji and then the final pair up towards the last couple of episodes.

This is a really good series, oh man.
Meanwhile, the singing on stage didn't do much for me this time.
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Old 2011-05-21, 09:52   Link #166
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Nope. To this day I still stand by my belief that at that moment in time the proof came out that no one deserves Ryuuji more than her, and vice versa.
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Old 2011-05-21, 13:03   Link #167
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Well there is one difference. He's spelling Ryuuji with an R now.

There's not really much I can say that hasn't already been said except that I don't know how many times I've watched the scene where Ryuuji pretends to be santa for Taiga and Taiga's realisation. The massive piss-take is that the music that plays during the scene where Ryuuji pretends to be santa for Taiga was never released. And it's one of my favourites too.
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Old 2011-05-22, 16:27   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Nope. To this day I still stand by my belief that at that moment in time the proof came out that no one deserves Ryuuji more than her, and vice versa.
Yes, that is quite true. I just figured you'd have some other thought or something. I was happy the first time I saw Ryuji jump in the window. I laughing until Taiga started crying. This time, I was sad once he walked in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well there is one difference. He's spelling Ryuuji with an R now.


Quote:
There's not really much I can say that hasn't already been said except that I don't know how many times I've watched the scene where Ryuuji pretends to be santa for Taiga and Taiga's realisation. The massive piss-take is that the music that plays during the scene where Ryuuji pretends to be santa for Taiga was never released. And it's one of my favourites too.
They never released that track? That's surprising. It was a wonderful scene.

And don't forget to read the novel!
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Old 2011-05-28, 09:09   Link #169
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Episode 20.

It's only my second time rewatching but only now I started to notice how much different Taiga really acts towards everybody at the start of the episode. She's relatively more civil towards everyone, Ami in particular. It becomes really apparent how much her sacrificing and self-depreciating ways is meant both as a way to protect herself and also as the developmental core of her personality. A self-defeating lifestyle that is latched on to her own experience where, as I had posted on before, she pushes all the good things to others because she doesn't believe herself to deserve any of it. It doesn't take a genius to know that from here on in after her speeches it looks and sounds like she just wants to cry but she doesn't, to keep up the brave facade of surviving suffering.

In the end, of course, she's just breaking herself for other people's sake, when in reality there's enough to go around for everyone, and no one should ever be considered undeserving of happiness.

In that aspect Minorin is almost exactly the same, also putting up her usual genki girl facade to hide the fact that she's sacrificing herself as well. The awkward tension between her and Ryuuji is as thick as galvanized rubber. The way they're both pushing Ryuuji towards the other is both hilarious and depressing because, in the end, you know someone will definitely get hurt.
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Old 2011-05-28, 14:50   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Episode 20.

In that aspect Minorin is almost exactly the same, also putting up her usual genki girl facade to hide the fact that she's sacrificing herself as well. The awkward tension between her and Ryuuji is as thick as galvanized rubber. The way they're both pushing Ryuuji towards the other is both hilarious and depressing because, in the end, you know someone will definitely get hurt.
And Ami knows this all too well judging from her "Hopefully you'e the only one getting hurt" comment to Ryuuji.

It really is wonderful how sutble this show can be. One thing I noticed is that after Taiga and Ryuuji's convo is over at the start of the episode, Ryuuji thinks "Don't run away, huh?", whilst we have a shot of Taiga who just said that she'll stop coming to Ryuuji's house and take after herself.

And it's amazing how insane Haruta can be sometimes. Intentionally pissing off Taiga? It's like someone wrote his name on a Death Note...

And as expected Ryuuji is also worried about Taiga taking care of herself as much as he's worried about his chance with Minori. He's wondering if it's still worth it. If Taiga hadn't pushed it on him then I think Ryuuji would've given up on her already.

It's always wonderful to see Taiga and Ryuuji interact with the other secondary characters in a big group. It really gives a sense of just how far they've come. Up until Ano Hana, I've always thought Toradora! had the best group dynamics.
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Old 2011-05-31, 09:48   Link #171
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Yes, the juxtaposition and all is great. I wish more attention was given to Noto, but there wasn't any time to do it. The poor guy.

And as stupid as Haruta is, he ends up with one fine girlfriend in the end.

More details to follow.
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Old 2011-05-31, 10:20   Link #172
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hmmm, i wonder,
what could have/would have happened, if Taiga managed to catch Ryuuji after leaving her apartment
??? interesting
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Old 2011-06-04, 22:59   Link #173
MeoTwister5
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Episode 20

I'm still convinced that Ami KNEW someone, at least Taiga anyway, was inside that closet. She noticed the towel on the floor and probably knew that was the one Taiga used, and was very vocal about her once again spot-on observations about people. That was the first complete dissection of Minorin in the entire series. Again the tension between people have started to become as thick as rubber despite the facades everyone puts up, and only Ami thinks it that the things unsaid need to come out. It ends with one of the most solid catfights I've seen animated, and it takes both Ryuuji and and Taiga again to pick up the slack and pieces.

Most important is that while episode 19 was the climactic setup, this episode was what got everything tolling towards the conclusion. This was the episode that Ryuuji finally started to realize "holy shit I like this girl" and of course, in her semiconscious state, Taiga finally tells Ryuuji the truth that she's been struggling with for the last 3 episodes.
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Old 2011-06-07, 10:30   Link #174
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Episode 21

I'm still convinced that Ami KNEW someone, at least Taiga anyway, was inside that closet. She noticed the towel on the floor and probably knew that was the one Taiga used.
I don't think I noticed that the first time I watched it but I think you're right. They focused on that towel like several times whilst Ami was talking. I think Ami knew too. I think another hint tht Ami knew they were there was when Ami apolagized to Ryuuji afterwards trying to explain to him why she had a fight with Minori. It's as if she felt embarressed that he saw the whole thing.

Episode 21.

Heh, I hadn't even considered that Noto liked Maya but the signs were clearly there. You can clearly see that almost every line has a double meaning to it now.

Takasu realising he just can't get with Minori was kinda sad but inevitable. And it's good to see how perceptive he is aswell.

Watching Ami argue with Minori was just gripping. It's great to have a character like Ami that can so brilliantly take down a character like that.

But then watching tensions just explode like that between Minori and Ami...man they were really on thin ice and it only took a small nudge set it all off. But maybe just seeing Minori seriously angry like that was shocking in itself.

Ryuuji: "I'll never let go of you when I catch you this time!" - I WONDER WHAT THAT MEANS?!?!

And then it happens. That draw dropping confession. No words can describe how utterly perfect that was...
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Old 2011-06-07, 13:59   Link #175
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Ahh... brilliant writing here, brilliant.

Who would have thought that Minori had a better mask than Ami? I do feel bad for Ami though. She really got shafted here. People may call her a bitch or say she has no place saying this, but she liked Ryuji too - and that's why she says what she says and does what she does.

They were very wise to blend the ED in there. I think a non-vocal would have been better (never thought of it before watching Gosick) but it was still excellent. I love when they make full use of their time like that.

Yeah, Noto has a thing for Maya. Poor slump. XD

And this is where the novel is getting really abridged. So if you were unsure if you'd be able to read it due to time or whatever, read the final three volumes. I will have to say shame on you for not reading it all thought, it's really really good.
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Old 2011-06-11, 09:32   Link #176
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Episode 22

Goes to show why Ami is the sharpest character in the series, and one of the sharpest supporting characters in anime I have ever seen. And here she's already grazing the surface of the central personality conflict in the entire series: that is, what happens when everyone is sacrificing for each other to the point of self-destruction.

We ran that debate years ago when the series aired. It was rightly pointed out that much of what has been happening was a result of everyone simply being selfless to the point that the road to hell becomes paved with good intentions. When they have each other in mind too much, everything deflects off each other, and no one benefits. It becomes highly evident here as Ryuuji shows that he is very much like that to a fault, when teacher asks what he feels about it rather than what everyone else does. The same question could be posed to the rest of the cast for all other situations. Too much of selflessness is just as bad as too much selfishness. He's just as bad as Taiga.

Lying to themselves and to each other thinking that it'll help the other. The biggest kicker was the complete bald faced lie she told Ryuuji at the end. Here they lie to themselves and each other even though we see right through them. The status is no longer quo, and the cracks have broken. All it needs now is the truth to stop all the falsehoods.

Which we will see next week.
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Old 2011-06-14, 21:23   Link #177
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My favorite thing is how realistic the current arc is. Most teenagers don't recognize their parents efforts for them. I sure didn't.

And I am really liking Taiga right now. I much prefer her cute side.
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Old 2011-06-16, 14:12   Link #178
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Episode 22.

When I watched the final episodes, I never really understood why Minori rejected Ryuuji if she loved him too but this episode makes things clear. "Things that you can see" are her ambitions in life and she thinks she won't achieve them if she focuses on "ghosts she can't fully see" (love). I wish they made that clearer (unless it's made clearer in the next episodes and I just missed it)

I just love what Ryuuji says at the end "Taiga, you really are a clumsy girl, aren't you?" He's obviously referring to her clumsiness in relationships aswell. God, the dialogue is just so awesome I can't ever get used to it.
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Old 2011-06-16, 14:47   Link #179
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Minori chose the safe road. Should she had pursued Ryuji, there would have been pain since she knew Taiga liked him. That's how I take from her 'what you can see' spiel.

All of the dialogue is meant to be vague and it works quite well.
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Old 2011-06-17, 05:59   Link #180
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I started rewatching Toradora yesterday, after 2+ years... 10 eps in one day ;p
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