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Old 2011-05-27, 01:15   Link #1081
HandofFate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
hate when they do this...

did I miss something from the end of episode 6 and start of episode 7?
Totally cheated us out of the dinner scene with Ryoushi and Niwa alone in that cliff-hanger.
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Old 2011-05-27, 01:52   Link #1082
Guardian Enzo
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Spoiler for 7:
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Old 2011-05-27, 02:38   Link #1083
mpt37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
hate when they do this...

did I miss something from the end of episode 6 and start of episode 7?
Totally cheated us out of the dinner scene with Ryoushi and Niwa alone in that cliff-hanger.
I was bit confused too but I think this is what happened... (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

The first 8 minutes happened before episode 5+6 which is why Niwa has a cast when he's eating lunch with Maekawa. Then we get the story behind the plastic bottle rockets which explains why Maekawa had to leave at the end of episode 6 (to get some bottles).

Cut to the scene where Niwa, Erio and Ryuuko are sitting at the table during the tea scene and that's about where we left off episode 6 before Maekawa arrives with the bottles.

After they're done making the rockets they all make their rice bowls, which is the dinner scene. Unfortunately, it wasn't Niwa and Ryuuko alone like I expected. Although I think the scene on the deck made up for that.
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Old 2011-05-27, 02:43   Link #1084
Guardian Enzo
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Is that a guess on your part? It does sound feasible - indeed, I was wondering why Makkkie had the cast in school but not at home. As for Ryuushi and he being alone, well - with apologies to Harold Camping every scene with Maekawa is a little rapture for me. Ryuushi, OTOH, is starting to grate on me a little.

As always, SHAFT refuses to treat this material seriously enough to make me take it seriously. My curiosity about these matters of romance and Erio's re-integration into society is more idle than intent - while the potential for greater emotional investment is certainly there, is just doesn't look like the series is interested in playing that game. I remain entranced by the eye and ear-candy, and as long as I get my Maekawa-san - preferably in cosplay - and my ED I'll be perfectly happy. But it would interesting, in a different universe, to see the self-indulgence dialed back to "medium" for a while and the characters given a chance to really interact seriously.
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Old 2011-05-27, 05:39   Link #1085
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by mpt37 View Post
I was bit confused too but I think this is what happened... (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

The first 8 minutes happened before episode 5+6 which is why Niwa has a cast when he's eating lunch with Maekawa. Then we get the story behind the plastic bottle rockets which explains why Maekawa had to leave at the end of episode 6 (to get some bottles).
When I read this one I rewatched the episode. The event with the pet bottle and when Maekawa-san receive the cola happens in May 8 and May 9 when she visits him to ask why is he flying it.

Then the event in episode 5 where Ryuuko was stalking Mako-kun happen in June 19 onwards.
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Old 2011-05-27, 06:05   Link #1086
Kanon
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I'm afraid my poor heart won't be able to handle the strain until the end of the season. Erio is just TOO DAMN MOE! She's like the very definition of it. Everytime I see her, I just want to protect her. Ryuushi's not bad herself either. She's just a different kind of moe. Her jealousy makes her even more entertaining; the scene with the knife was great. She's no yandere yet, but she might get there if this keeps up... careful not to end up like another Makoto, Makoto.

Maekawa was awesome as always. I was happy to finally see a bit more of her. Never thought the reason she keeps calling Makoto "transfer student" after all this time is that she forgot his name

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
As always, SHAFT refuses to treat this material seriously enough to make me take it seriously. My curiosity about these matters of romance and Erio's re-integration into society is more idle than intent - while the potential for greater emotional investment is certainly there, is just doesn't look like the series is interested in playing that game. I remain entranced by the eye and ear-candy, and as long as I get my Maekawa-san - preferably in cosplay - and my ED I'll be perfectly happy. But it would interesting, in a different universe, to see the self-indulgence dialed back to "medium" for a while and the characters given a chance to really interact seriously.
I understand your complaint, but I don't get why you're pinning this on Shaft. From what I know, they're just staying faithful to the original material, as they always do. Can't blame them for that.
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Old 2011-05-27, 06:29   Link #1087
ID555
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Wow, brilliant. You can almost feel the romantic atmosphere of that night scene with Ryuushi and Makoto, like you were there yourself.

The rest of the episode was pretty great as well, like Ryuushi exhibiting future 'controlling girlfriend' tendencies, and Erio being adorable without overshadowing the rest of the cast.
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Old 2011-05-27, 06:36   Link #1088
shishio
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I'm afraid my poor heart won't be able to handle the strain until the end of the season. Erio is just TOO DAMN MOE!
I understand what you mean. Erio is too uniquely MOE . How come this show didn't get as much love like anohana or Hanasaku iroha? I mean, it is waste to not let this show have a sub-forum of its own.
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Old 2011-05-27, 06:49   Link #1089
ID555
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Is there really a Ham-don?

I guess Erio really wants some female friends, her delight at the two girls staying over was almost... creepy. (Which makes me wonder even more what her past behaviour was like, if she so easily accepts Maekawa and Ryuushi(who doesn't have a fond memory of her)).

Meme stopping at Granny's shop.... I wonder if she's dead/dying?
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Old 2011-05-27, 06:58   Link #1090
tsunade666
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Maekawa-san is indeed fine with Touwa though for Ryuushi..... she has her own problems without Mako-kun included on it. She is one of those who would avoid Erio as much as they can. But like what she said in the end. She might avoid Erio but she will side with Niwa-kun such sweet girl

Love her ribbon
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Old 2011-05-27, 07:29   Link #1091
Haak
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I dunno. I just can't help but feel that these last two episodes aren't as crazy as the previous episodes. Maybe they're just taking a breather but I'd like more of that crazyness.
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Old 2011-05-27, 11:53   Link #1092
ars89
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Spoiler for ep 7:
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Old 2011-05-27, 12:17   Link #1093
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I understand your complaint, but I don't get why you're pinning this on Shaft. From what I know, they're just staying faithful to the original material, as they always do. Can't blame them for that.
You're right in pointing out that some of this flippant tone is surely from the source material, and I can't say for sure what the proportions are. However, I would certainly take issue with the notion that SHAFT is "always faithful to the source material". To the contrary, I'd say they're always faithful to their own artistic sensibility and they make the source material bend to fit that. Sometimes the fit is more natural than at other times.
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Old 2011-05-27, 12:24   Link #1094
Kaoru Chujo
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@HandofFate -- I was a bit disoriented at the beginning of ep7, too, but in fact they continued the cliffhanger perfectly. As mpt37 said, they just gave us a bit of background before they showed us Makoto, Ryuuko, and Erio all waiting for Maekawa to come back.

They dropped back in time to show us the background to the bottle rocket stuff: Maekawa deciding to go find rocket man; then thinking at lunch of asking Makoto to go with her but deciding against it because of his broken arm; then going to see the man and getting the job of making the rockets.

All this must have happened between episode 4 (when she visited Makoto in the hospital) and episode 5 (when she mentioned the guy and his ear tag to Makoto, after Makoto's arm had healed).

@Guardian Enzo -- Your reaction that the show is not taking itself seriously enough is reasonable, but my reaction differs completely. As I said before, a show does not have to be simple and straightforward to be serious, and the complexity of tone here -- humour, moe, and serious business all interlayered -- is part of what makes this show so great, at least for me.

We can feel Erio's uncertainty and pain, Ryuuko's longing, Maekawa's pride and depression, without them having to be reinforced with a complete consistency of tone. One of the things that makes Shinbou at his best so modern is that he refuses to fool us with such traditional dramatic trickery. He has better tricks to play, lol.

From my point of view, Shinbou is simply playing in a higher league than most anime directors. He may fall off his high wire from time to time, but when he is on, as here and in Bakemonogatari, he is superb. It definitely has to do with the source material, as both you and Kanon said, in different ways. His style suits these serious fantastic comedies perfectly.

@ID555 -- The night scene with Ryuuko and Makoto was brilliant, a memorable anime scene. The wind (or the UFOs?) in the background, the rushing clouds and moon above, the hesitancy of the speakers, all contributed to making it feel real.

I also thought Erio's reaction to having the girls stay over was amazing. "Creepy," perhaps, but powerful. Her face at the end of that sequence was a spellbinding image. Asako-neesan saikou! The mere fact that she wanted them to stay was wonderful and amazing. Her character has made remarkable changes since episode one, while she has still remained herself.

@Haak -- I have actually enjoyed these past two episodes at least as much as any of the others, if not more, but I can see what you mean that they are less crazy. Maybe part of that is us getting used to the craziness, lol. But I think it is the natural evolution of the show, toward a fairly serious conclusion. However, we know that the girl in the spacesuit has yet to appear, so perhaps something pretty crazy lies in store for us.
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Old 2011-05-27, 12:26   Link #1095
Dist
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^What girl in the spacesuit?

I've myself considered these past two episodes probably better than the ones at the beginning. Erio with her '' I'm an alien '' was only starting to annoy me. How do you even expect the '' craziness '' to remain when that part has already been solved after they jumped off the cliff..
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Old 2011-05-27, 12:45   Link #1096
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
^What girl in the spacesuit? I've myself considered these past two episodes probably better than the ones at the beginning. Erio with her '' I'm an alien '' was only starting to annoy me. How do you even expect the '' craziness '' to remain when that part has already been solved after they jumped off the cliff..
1. Spacesuit girl is in the OP.
Spoiler for cast list from official site:
2. One bit of craziness is gone, but there could easily be more to come, from Erio or from elsewhere entirely. I'm not going to predict how, but the possibility exists. However, I do think that we are moving toward things that are more serious than before. Maybe Erio really was abducted by aliens? Is that crazy or serious?
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Old 2011-05-27, 12:47   Link #1097
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
@Guardian Enzo -- Your reaction that the show is not taking itself seriously enough is reasonable, but my reaction differs completely. As I said before, a show does not have to be simple and straightforward to be serious, and the complexity of tone here -- humour, moe, and serious business all interlayered -- is part of what makes this show so great, at least for me.

We can feel Erio's uncertainty and pain, Ryuuko's longing, Maekawa's pride and depression, without them having to be reinforced with a complete consistency of tone. One of the things that makes Shinbou at his best so modern is that he refuses to fool us with such traditional dramatic trickery. He has better tricks to play, lol.

From my point of view, Shinbou is simply playing in a higher league than most anime directors. He may fall off his high wire from time to time, but when he is on, as here and in Bakemonogatari, he is superb. It definitely has to do with the source material, as both you and Kanon said, in different ways. His style suits these serious fantastic comedies perfectly.
This is certainly where we differ. I see this not as Shinbou playing in a higher league, but not willing enough to trust his talent (and the material) enough to let it speak for itself. There's a compulsion to inject his genius into the work - to remind everybody how smart he is by showing them repeatedly. Sometimes it works better than other times - I'd argue that it works best when there's a very strong established identity balancing it out (for example Gen Urobuchi or Ken Akamatsu). In the case of Bakemonogatari, you've got a ticky director paired with a writer equally eager to throw cleverness in your face, and it's kind of a perfect storm of pretentiousness - a harmonic resonance if you will. I think that's a case where both the source material and the director were ill-served by being too compatible. Others can - and do - strongly differ.

I do agree with your assessment that these absurdist comedies are easy pickings for Shinbou, right up his alley. Natsu no Arashi, Soredemo, Denpa Onna - this stuff is right in his strike zone. I think both NnA and Soredemo had enough inherent sincerity that the final product was somewhat more effective than it is here in terms of emotional impact. This show clearly exceeds them in visual dexterity and cuteness, so on balance I'd rank them all about equal - though the first season of NnA would still rank highest of the group for me.

EDIT: You know, in thinking about it, I think Shinbou is a lot like Tarantino (a huge anime fan, obviously) is with live action. A lover of snarky, absurd dialogue. A deft hand with action and a superb visual framer. Someone whose personal style makes every work he directs unmistakably his own - for better or worse. A "name above the title" director - where it's always about him first, the material second. The difference, of course, is that Tarantino is very often working with his own scripts - so the synergy between director and material (and the self-indulgence) is generally assured. With Shinbou, part of the success or failure of the work comes in deciding what to adapt - or in the case of Madoka, who to collaborate with.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2011-05-27 at 13:05.
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Old 2011-05-27, 13:43   Link #1098
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
This is certainly where we differ....
We differ a lot, lol. Negima, Madoka, SoreDemo and especially Natsu no Arashi (and Arakawa) are not among the Shinbou works I have most enjoyed. Those would be Cossette, Tsukuyomi, Bakemonogatari, Vampire Bund, and this. To me, what you call "pretentiousness" is intelligence and art. Shinbou has clearly imbibed a lot of modern art, which elevates his work.

The visual techniques you and others dislike usually convey aesthetic, emotional and/or narrative meaning to me. Seeing only a bit of something, for example, can give a feeling of intimate presence in a scene. Seeing a character from an odd angle can convey the character's unsettled mood (e.g., Ryuuko on the steps at the beginning of ep6).

"Letting the material speak for itself" seems to me often to mean presenting it in a conventional and pedestrian way. As in Cross Game, Seirei no Moribito (which I did enjoy, despite that) and even to some extent AnoHana (which I'm also enjoying).

It's great that we can differ so much and still enjoy some of the same shows.
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characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Akatsuki no Yona | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Fate/Stay Night UBW | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete | Wixoss
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Old 2011-05-27, 13:51   Link #1099
Itlandm
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Theory of the end: The time has come for CATTLE MUTILATION!

Also: There is no harem. The only girl who takes a romantic interest in Makoto is Ryuuko-san. Maekawa-san does not even remember his name. Erio enjoys his company but in a family way. Meme is his aunt, no matter how much she teases him. So we have a harem of one pure-pure girl.
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Old 2011-05-27, 13:53   Link #1100
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
Oh lol, the scene where ryuuko is waving the knife in correspondence to Niwa's hand movement cracks me up. Though she still has a lot to learn before she can call herself a full fledged yandere.
An animated gif is needed, be it sig or avatar both can work.
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