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Old 2011-05-27, 02:43   Link #2961
Haak
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
This I am not too sure on, but I don't think there was ever an actual wish. The grail was just a means to reaching the Origin and the wish thing was the propaganda used to fulfill the ceremony to complete the grail.
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
No, the wish exists, even though it wasn't the original point of the Grail. It's just a side-effect of having so much mana in one place and accessible to one person. They can essentially make the world into whatever they want it to be.
I don't fully remember but I think in HF,
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Old 2011-05-27, 09:57   Link #2962
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I don't fully remember but I think in HF,
Spoiler for HF:
I thought....

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-05-27, 18:23   Link #2963
DragoZERO
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I really think there never was a wish at all. We need a long time expert to chime in here.
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Old 2011-05-27, 19:03   Link #2964
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It's original function was wish granting, because that is how AM came about. It was " a wish from mankind for an absolute evil" that polluted the Grail in the Third War. But yes, the Grail was originally supposed to bring about wishes, but it's main purpose was to punch a hole with the souls of the Heroic Spirits to Akasha to obtain the third Magic from the other side.
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Old 2011-05-27, 19:11   Link #2965
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
It's original function was wish granting, because that is how AM came about. It was " a wish from mankind for an absolute evil" that polluted the Grail in the Third War. But yes, the Grail was originally supposed to bring about wishes, but it's main purpose was to punch a hole with the souls of the Heroic Spirits to Akasha to obtain the third Magic from the other side.
Neh the original function of the grail was immortality, materialisation of the soul. Hence why it was called the holy grail. The wish granting was just a ploy by Einzbern to get magi to participate so they could kill they're servants.

The grail itself is a mass of concentrated prana linked to the origin which is why it had the ability to grant wishes. I think it was more of a something that just occured than something designed to grant wishes.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2011-05-27 at 19:21.
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Old 2011-05-27, 20:03   Link #2966
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That is pretty much what I said. But it does grant wishes with the extra prana.
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Old 2011-05-27, 20:28   Link #2967
DragoZERO
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I think wish is a tough word to employ here. It's just that the grail has to ability to do almost anything but the wish wasn't the original function. But after the third war, the ability to make a wish was null since it was corrupt, right?
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Old 2011-05-27, 20:29   Link #2968
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Thanks for the responses both of you ^_^.

Now here's the main part of my question: Saber wished to obtain the Holy Grail to switch the sword choice selection. In essence, she wanted to use the Grail's massive amount of mana to enact the 5th true magic, Time Travel. Was this even possible? I recall Tohsaka mentioning at the end of HF that not even the Holy Grail had the ability to resurrect someone from the dead (which would be considered the 3rd true magic).

Sorry if these have been asked before but I only finished F/SN this year and havent had the 6 years of experience of you guys. (I also searched through most of the pages in this thread but nothing really stuck out >.<)
It's highly questionable if it is possible, actually (for the reasons you suggested), but from Alaya's viewpoint it doesn't matter. Saber merely wished for the Grail, she did not wish to be able to perform any specific action with it.

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But after the third war, the ability to make a wish was null since it was corrupt, right?
No, it still grants wishes. It just does so in a way which results in the most destruction possible.
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Old 2011-05-27, 21:17   Link #2969
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It's highly questionable if it is possible, actually (for the reasons you suggested), but from Alaya's viewpoint it doesn't matter. Saber merely wished for the Grail, she did not wish to be able to perform any specific action with it.
Huh? The whole reason she wanted it was to undo her removing the sword out of the stone.
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Old 2011-05-28, 05:33   Link #2970
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
It's highly questionable if it is possible, actually (for the reasons you suggested), but from Alaya's viewpoint it doesn't matter. Saber merely wished for the Grail, she did not wish to be able to perform any specific action with it.


To be quite honest Saber got completely screwed over. If you consider the fact that there is an infinite number of parallel words, it's highly likely at least one of the Sabers didn't pull out the sword in the stone. Sabers wish is in essence to produce a parallel world, through time travel or otherwise (since she can't erase her existence) where that event didn't happen but there's a very good chance that world already exists.

So most likely even if it wasn't possible Alaya would simply show he a parallel world since it's in essence the same as what she wished for.
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Old 2011-05-28, 14:05   Link #2971
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Huh? The whole reason she wanted it was to undo her removing the sword out of the stone.
Yes, but she never asked to be allowed to redo the selection of the King, she asked for the Grail. If what she wished for doesn't allow her to do what she intended to do with it, that's her problem, not Alaya's....
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Old 2011-05-28, 15:10   Link #2972
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It's just that Vigilantia wasn't asking about how it would affect Saber's time breaking contract with Alaya to obtain the Holy Grail and DragoZero probably didn't realise you were reffering to that...
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Old 2011-05-28, 17:42   Link #2973
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Hmm. I must admit, Saber really got the short end of the stick. So her wish of redoing the selection since the beginning was impossible. And even if she did get the grail (in its pure or corrupted form), it couldn't even "grant" her wish and she would be stuck as a CG; doomed forever to kill the innocent and guilty while growing more and more cynical.

Hmm... This seems like a good premise for a fallen Saber. CG ARTURIA anyone?
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Old 2011-05-29, 05:48   Link #2974
Haak
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We already have Saber, Alter Saber, Lily Saber, Genki NotSaber and Lion Saber. We don't need an Archer Saber.

Anyway, I like to believe she got her happy ending in Last Episode.
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Old 2011-06-06, 08:32   Link #2975
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We already have Saber, Alter Saber, Lily Saber, Genki NotSaber and Lion Saber. We don't need an Archer Saber.

Anyway, I like to believe she got her happy ending in Last Episode.
Speaking of Last Episode, is that where shirou reunites with Saber? There was some stuff about Saber consulting a mage in her time to see if it was possible for her to see Shirou again. And the mage was like NO. In any case though, the ending statement, "welcome back", said by saber means that they DID get to re-united...although i do wonder how...
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Old 2011-06-07, 16:20   Link #2976
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Btw... do Servants age (from Shirou with red hair to white hair)?
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Old 2011-06-07, 23:22   Link #2977
sharingan0619
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Btw... do Servants age (from Shirou with red hair to white hair)?
No, the white hair that archer shirou has is a result of his extensive use of trace magic in his lifetime before he became a heroic spirit.
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Old 2011-06-08, 13:46   Link #2978
DragoZERO
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No, the white hair that archer shirou has is a result of his extensive use of trace magic in his lifetime before he became a heroic spirit.
Same about his darker skin too.

Clever excuse, huh?
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Old 2011-06-08, 16:38   Link #2979
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Btw... do Servants age (from Shirou with red hair to white hair)?
No. However, Archer is older than Shirou, because he has the age he was at the time he died (or, possibly, when he was at the peak of his power, which would be not long before that).
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Old 2011-06-08, 21:36   Link #2980
sharingan0619
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No. However, Archer is older than Shirou, because he has the age he was at the time he died (or, possibly, when he was at the peak of his power, which would be not long before that).
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