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Old 2011-06-02, 14:23   Link #41
Bonta Kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaAlba View Post
but the main guy is a 33 years old guy, too old for a main guy doesn't he?
For me not so much, I like the fact he is old enough to know he will have a good deal of experience behind him(I think it's cause I have just recently saw Battle: Los Angeles and the old geezer works so well there)

I don't mind the "teenage soldier" cliche but in there cases their backgrounds are much less believable than a real old guy.

Also with otherworldly beings coming to earth, I think it's better to have a guy with life experience to show em the ropes and interact with than some teenager that doesn't have a clue.

But then I don't think too many young kids would be reading this anyway.

Love those characters btw, there are cliches thrown in left, right and center but they don't seem bad at all.
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Old 2011-06-02, 14:46   Link #42
wellis
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Here's more information from Baka-Tsuki:

Quote:
Like a mad elephant on a rampant, a roaring Type-74 was running across the wasteland at the opposite side.

The first thing that caught everyone's attention was the 105mm rifled gun pointing out from the nose of the giant metallic monster.

"Are... are you saying... that thing will blow out fire?" asked a villager in a shaking voice.

But Piņa had her own plans. It was very likely that the refugees from the village of Koda had a strong weapon known as "The Great Metal".

"Well, it's the first time for me to see it by my eyes. But it's also well within what I have expected before."




-------------


Great. Just the same as our drills.

Kamo opened the hatch of his CCV (Command Communication Vehicle), climbed through the opening, and looked around with his binoculars.

Like thousands of invisible needles, the strong wind outside was stinging his face.

With turbo diesel burning inside the 10-cylinder V-shaped engines, the trackbelts of fifity-seven Type-74s drawn deep tracks on the land.

The Type-73 armoured carriers running behind Kamo's vehicle sped up and left the CCV behind.

Far away were the Type-87 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns shooting at something in the air. Upon closer look, the dragons struggling over them had their wings ripped into pieces by countless canon rounds. Soon after, they fell onto the ground one by one.





P.S. Don't bother to ask me to translate the whole book as my almost-nonexistent Japanese proficiency is likely not much better than yours. You'd be better off finding someone who truly has the time, capability and dedication. 力不足でゴメンね.
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Old 2011-06-02, 17:19   Link #43
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaAlba View Post
but the main guy is a 33 years old guy, too old for a main guy doesn't he?



See. THIS says allot about anime. We're so used to giant robots and space fleets being commanded by teenagers, that the notion of a main character whose over 30 years old seems extremely unnatural to us. It's almost as if we normally think of such characters as secondary (even backround characters) whose sole purpose is to stand around and be impressed by the teenage wunder kind.


I think one of the selling points for this is the fact that the male protagonist ISN'T some kid that makes this more interesting. It amuses me to no end that by going with the most *normal* choice of protagonist (An adult military man, as opposed to a 16 year *just a regular old high school student*) to handle a major nation threatening crisis...the series is doing this huge subversion of everything that surprises most fans.


edit: Also FUCK YEAR ARMOR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
For me not so much, I like the fact he is old enough to know he will have a good deal of experience behind him(I think it's cause I have just recently saw Battle: Los Angeles and the old geezer works so well there)

I don't mind the "teenage soldier" cliche but in there cases their backgrounds are much less believable than a real old guy.
Teenage *soldiers* aren't necessarily a cliche. If you look at the age of most of the enlisted guys going into Iraq and Afghanistan, you DID see allot of guys who were still teenagers. The key distinction though, is that this is for relatively low ranked enlisted. Officers and NCO's are generally all older.
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Old 2011-06-02, 17:29   Link #44
wellis
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At first I thought the main character was too old, but then I thought about it. He's an officer so he has to have a good amount of experience, and thus easily several years into the JSDF, so it's not surprising he's 33. You can't really argue an age difference because none of the fantasy characters, with the exception of the 15 year old and 19 year old, are younger than him.
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Old 2011-06-02, 17:33   Link #45
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More information:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis
Also how "right-wing" is the author? Is he the kind of person who claims that Japan never did anything wrongin WWII and that the Rape of Nanking never happened? I ask this because I've heard Japan's right-wing is pretty crazy, compared to say the right-wing in the US as an example.
China and Korea are automatically presented as antagonists, who are said to cry 'aggression' and condemn anything Japan has done. The socialists and communists in the Diet are presented as fools who oppose everything.

I have not read that far and don't know if it will get any worse than that. But then the activities of the JSDF in the story stretch the definition of self-defence as allowed by the Peace Constitution imposed on the nation after its defeat in WW2.

IMO the author does have a political stance, but does not intend to use the novel as a means to further his political agenda. I assume at the very start the story was just a personal one, to be shared among his friends who likely had similar political views. Put it in another way, you can see the author obviously leaning towards the right, but at least he doesn't shout at your ears like all other right-wingers. His effort to rewrite the whole novel and publish only the watered-down version shows that he intends to keep all the naughty stuff with himself and doesn't want to make his novel a propaganda machine.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis
Very cool Doraneko! Is there any more information on how well magic does against the JSDF?
"It is truly an outstanding performance and I can't further comment on it, Lelei. Now, tell me more about the 'truth'."

Lelei bowed politely, and started presenting the "truth" as if she was in an academic conference.



It is often said that we, the Lindon School of wizards, will be feared and rejected by the public if we openly use magic in wars. However the reality is not that one-sided.

The whole concept behind using magic in wars is to intervene natural phenomenons - a manifestation of the "Surface Truth" - in such a way usable in fights.



"Just like this."

Upon hovering the stones that she had just picked up, Lelei shot them into the withering trees around her.



As you have seen, the "Counter Truth" has just intervened the "Surface Truth" of the stone pellets being still. However, similar effects can also be achieved by arrows or catapults. Therefore, our objective is to bring in practicality to overcome such a reality.



This time, Lelei simultaneously floated over ten stones around a specific target. The stones shot into the target from every direction. What was left was a bark lying on the ground with thousands of holes.



A trick like this can never be achieved with a single arrow or a single catapult. This is the reason behind the public's fear towards war magic.

However, even if the typical audience is satisfied, how about jugglers who know alternate tricks? Fire magic is nothing more than the burning of objects. Why not simply use oil or firewood? Even for water magic, at the end of the day it is not much different from pouring water on an object.

All of these can be recreated by machines and tools. However, the effect of "Counter Truth" lasts for a short period, and is incomparable with the strength of massive machineries.

Such a problem is insignificant in the small-scale military conflicts in the past. However recently the scale of wars increases dramatically, while at the same time wizards are becoming more and more obsolete. Of course there is no point to waste such talents. That is why they are currently used for medical and indirect support - areas that are essential nowadays. Nevertheless, being a major school in magic fights ever since ancient years, the Lindon School can never be satisfied at the current situation. Just as how our current status is built up on our forefathers effort, we have to continue to move forward by advancing our researches.

But, facing the strong weapons of the JSDF such as "guns" and "cannons", it may also be true that by paying the same degree of effort we may still be unable to cope with the tide of times.

As long as we stick with using "Counter Truth" merely as a means of directly interfering the "Surface Truth," this is a problem we have to face sooner or later. The reason is that the most effective way to bring about any change within the "Surface Truth" is to work within the framework of "Surface Truth". Given enough time we will always be caught up, and eventually overtaken, by technological advances.

However, researches in regard of the "Surface Truth" are much deeper and more extensive at the other side of the Gate. Is it possible that we can achieve a better result by using magic to complement, instead of directly interfering of the "Surface Truth"? This is Lelei's focus.

For example, at the other side of the Gate, there are researches in regard of "flames".

The wise men said, burning is a result of the combination of the "burning essence" and the "object essence."

The wise men also said, explosion is a result of such burning within a short time frame. However the reason for the bottleneck of our research is that we have been mistaking the breaking of utensils upon heating as detonation.



"I shall hereby present an authentic detonation."

Lelei created an orb of light in the air.

"Across the Gate, the Object Essence is called Oxygen. The Burning Essence is equivalent to their Carbon, Water and a number of other materials. Oxygen is prevalent in the air. What Lelei is going to do is to draw and accumulate the Burning Essence, lock it in a force field with a suitable density, float it in the air, and release it by the use of Counter Truth."

Lelei bent a finger, and the orb busted.

"A material called Explosives across the Gate is equivalent to this orb."

The Old Sage nodded in response. "Um... It fits the 'truth' and can expand the scope of magic usage. Although you are clearly inspired by the researches in the other world, your achievement of fitting their theories into ours with practical results makes you deserve a doctorate degree."

"If the phenomenon of explosion can be controlled effectively, the value of magic will further increase. Not only for the military, but also for industrial and construction work, this will be very useful," Katou the Old Sage added and was about to end the assessment.

"But, there is not enough power."

Lelei looked at Katou's direction. A JSDF officer was standing there.

"Sorry. What I'm going to say will be a bit complicated. Would you mind interpreting for me?"

Lelei gave a small sigh, made a bow towards her teacher, and walked towards the officer.

Last edited by wellis; 2011-06-02 at 17:45. Reason: Minor Corrections
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Old 2011-06-02, 18:42   Link #46
Roger Rambo
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VERY interesting. Seems the wizards are trying to overstate the power projection that they would add to a major conflict.

And it IS an interesting idea. That for a long time the mages have been focusing their power on trying to suppress conventional tech, instead of using it as a compliment to it. This of course has resulted in them having to eventually deal with some crazy shit coming through the gate in the form of cannon and rifles.
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Old 2011-06-02, 23:49   Link #47
AlaAlba
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Quote:
His effort to rewrite the whole novel and publish only the watered-down version shows that he intends to keep all the naughty stuff with himself and doesn't want to make his novel a propaganda machine.
Rewrite the whole novel!? holy sht.

@doraneko: (well, he's not here so I don't know if he will answer my question...)
by which you mean watered down version, is this version like a summary version of the original version? like say, whether the volume is way much less than the original.

edit:
... I just know this is also the same like SAO, in which they're both started of as a web novel and then a publisher took it on to publish the materials. As in SAO the light novel version only have a minor differences with the web version.

So I wonder if "Gate" also the same?

Last edited by AlaAlba; 2011-06-03 at 00:05.
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Old 2011-06-03, 05:11   Link #48
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If I understand this correctly.... their magic relies on the perception that the "Surface Truth" is the natural state of the world, and that they use "Counter Truth" to change that state: making something do stuff it normally wouldn't. Interesting view on things there... it's these kinds of stuff that make me want for MOAR
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Old 2011-06-04, 06:53   Link #49
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaAlba View Post
Rewrite the whole novel!? holy sht.

@doraneko: (well, he's not here so I don't know if he will answer my question...)
by which you mean watered down version, is this version like a summary version of the original version? like say, whether the volume is way much less than the original.

edit:
... I just know this is also the same like SAO, in which they're both started of as a web novel and then a publisher took it on to publish the materials. As in SAO the light novel version only have a minor differences with the web version.

So I wonder if "Gate" also the same?
Another possibility is that there was so much content in the original web publication that the publisher wanted a more trimmed down version to release.
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Old 2011-06-05, 03:12   Link #50
wellis
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Here's some more information as to why it took a week to beat back the invaders from the Fantasy World:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis
Doraneko thanks for the information about the tanks and magic.

Is there a reason why it took some time for the JSDF to push the invaders back through the gate? I remember reading somewhere that it took about a week to do so. Is there any information or excerpts from the books that talk about the initial invasion and how the JSDF fought it off?
It was basically a problem of logistic, international politics and bureaucracy rather than military strength. The surprise attack by the brutal soldiers of the Empire pushed deep into Tokyo city, while the police were too unprepared for such sudden and large-scale military attack. When the JSDF finally got a yes to move, it quickly gained control of the city and pushed the enemy troops back to the Gate within the first day.

JSDF's retaliation through the Gate started seven days after for the reasons stated above. The first major and fair battle between the two sides, took place in the fantasy world, ended within two days with the Empire suffering great losses.

And yes of course the fightings are mentioned in detail in the book. The resident otaku leader, who was shopping for comics at that time, got some cool points during the first wave of surprise attack. He calmly used his military authority to command the police officers and diverted panicking pedestrians into an ancient castle city inside the palace area. The traditional castle defences worked perfectly against the medieval troops and they successfully held on with minimal deaths/injuries until the JSDF forces came.
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Old 2011-06-05, 03:14   Link #51
wellis
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Also here's the length of the novels:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doraneko
With around 500 pages in each book there are around 2000 pages in total. On top of that due to the larger print size, the number of words per page is much more than your typical light novel page. The word count (Japanese characters) is probably around 1.5 to 1.8 million.

It would certainly be a fun and enjoyable series to translate - if it the length wasn't that epic. To translate the whole thing within a reasonable time frame, you will need a team of at least 4 (one for each volume) and preferably 8 (two for each volume) experienced translators working simultaneously. Team members also need to be highly cooperative and vigorously cross check each other's work, due to the high possibility of inconsistencies caused by the large amount of fantasy terms and names. Ideally there should also be a military otaku in the team serving as a consultant, but I am certainly asking too much. :lol:

It will be great if someone here has some connections in the publishing industry and persuades them to seriously consider a localization. This is the author's first ever published work and he is totally incomparable with big names like Haruki Murakami (Norwegian Wood & etc) or even mid-tier writers like Nagaru Tanigawa (Haruhi). Logically there should be some leeway in regard to the licensing fees. There are Japanese elements in the story for sure, but the core of the story is still military x fantasy, an area which I think even Western novel readers would love.
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Old 2011-06-05, 05:59   Link #52
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Here's some more information as to why it took a week to beat back the invaders from the Fantasy World:
This makes sense. Troop mobilizations take quite a bit of time to organize even under ideal conditions. If there's any bureaucratic inertia at all things are going to take even longer. There's allot more logistics involved in getting troops into combat (even within you country) than just ordering guys into their vehicles and driving towards the enemy.


Good to see that our protagonist is a level headed fellow! Quite refreshing I think.



With regards to translation...if anything WAS done, it'd probably be best to initially focus all the energy onto just the first novel. To get as much of that out as a complete translated unit as possible.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2011-06-05 at 06:50.
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Old 2011-06-05, 19:46   Link #53
wellis
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Well someone on Spacebattles was able to translate a portion of the prologue from the sample page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prologue 1, first part
20××, Summer

According to records, the day was humid and hot.
The temperature exceeded 30°C, the level of humidity was high too, and due to the influence of a heat island the streets had turned into a scorching hell.
Nevertheless, it was Saturday. Lots of people went to the city centre and had fun buying things or window shopping.

11:50 am

The sun was approaching the zenith, and when it seemed like the temperature would reach a new record, in Ginza, central ward of the Tokyo metropolitan area, suddenly a "Gate to Another World" appeared.
Knights and infantry that, from the looks of their armor, seemed to be straight from medieval Europe came pouring out. And then... What came then seemed like it belonged into a fantasy story or movie: Fantastical beings like orcs, goblins and trolls.
They charged the people that, by chance, happened to be present.
Young and old, men and women, no matter the race or nationality, slaughtering everyone seemed to be their objective.
The people, having gotten used to this peaceful country in these peaceful times, had no way to resist. In this pandemonium of shrieks, one by one they fell.
The shoppers, the parents with their children, and tourists from overseas, one by one they were trampled down under horse's hooves, pierced by lances and cut down by swords.
Heaps of corpses covered the streets, and the asphalt of Ginza turned the dark red colour of blood. "Hell" would have been a fitting title for the scene.
The troops of the other world stacked even more corpses on top of the piled up ones. Then, on this hill of meat, a jet black battle flag was hoisted. And with their loud voices, in their own language, they declared this place conquered and in their possession.
Although, since there was nobody to listen to them, it was a one-sided proclamation of war.

"The Ginza Incident"

This is what history would later call this touching of the other world with ours.
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Old 2011-06-06, 03:44   Link #54
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Baka-Tsuki: Gate - Thus the JSDF Fought Here

They have a project page now
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Old 2011-06-06, 05:02   Link #55
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Wow, AA guns versus Dragons?

Assault rifle versus sword and shield?

I like!
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Old 2011-06-06, 08:16   Link #56
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Baka-Tsuki: Gate - Thus the JSDF Fought Here

They have a project page now
Awesome! this is great news!



And it seeming, that despite the colorful cover, the tone of this series seems to be more in line with that one fanart of the berserking gothic lolita. VERY bloody.
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Old 2011-06-06, 09:36   Link #57
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^ yeah, very bloody indeed, from the very first few pharagraphs we're being welcomed by a massacre on daylight.

and 6% on chapter 1, the one wellis posted right there I think.
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Old 2011-06-07, 19:57   Link #58
wellis
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Doraneko translated a scene showing Rory Mercury against some bandits who'd just robbed a family fleeing the village that'd been attacked by a dragon:

Quote:
At dusk, the gang of bandits were sitting next to a campfire. In celebration of their success they were indulging themselves with the prize of their raid.

Among the victims’ belongings, there were not only valuables, but also food that could sustain the family for a reasonably long period. After filling their stomachs with delicacies, everyone was eager to lay his hands on the mother and daughter. But even for bandits, the senior ones could satisfy their beastly lusts first and enjoy drinking afterwards, while everyone else had to wait for their turn.

"Boss, seems like they are from the Koda village. The villagers are escaping from a dragon, and are moving slowly because they have so much to carry. Sounds like an easy target. How about attacking them? There’s simply no reason not to. Let’s do it!"

Seeing his subordinate talking so eagerly, the head of the bandits smiled complacently. This isn’t a bad idea. Just do that. The head initially shared similar views. But…

"Well, we don’t have not enough folks here."

With less than twenty men under him, a caravan as large as a village is too big as a prey.

"Just spread the word and get more people to join us. We’ll then be able to clear this big job - a big job that we could never clear in the past."

This also makes a good opportunity to recruit new gang members, the bandit head thought.

With enough men under him, he would be able to attack towns and villages. If everything went fine he might even be able to drive out a feudal lord and become one himself. From a bandit to a lord. From living a hand-to-mouth existence like every other bandit, to becoming a ruler. The bandit head was indulging in a short, ephemeral dream.

A bandit known by no one. For a person to meet his end while he was having a happy dream, is this a fortune or a misfortune?

There was a heavy sound of a head hitting the ground. Rolling and rolling, the head stopped right next to the fire. With a frizzling sound, there was a unique smell of burnt hair.

Biologically, when a person is decapitated, he still remains conscious for a few seconds. If this is true, the bandit experienced the instant when his head hit the floor. With the world rotating in front of his eyes, before realizing what actually happened, he had witnessed how blood gushed out of the lump of meat that was previously his body, and how the shaking lump eventually fell onto the ground.

With his vision darkening rapidly, he saw a goddess of death with long black hair bathed in his own blood.



Anyone who sees the girl always immediately thinks of "black": dark black hair on white, porcelain-like skin, black dress, and a pair of eyes that are as black as bottomless darkness.

With a whizzing sound, the head of the bandit cut into the air.

What the girl was holding was a heavy halberd. A halberd is an axe blade which looks like a heavy piece of metal attached to a long pole. This is clearly not a weapon for a petite girl to swing around. Neither is it something fit to be held by a girl in a frilled dress. It certainly defies logic further to see it being swung by a delicate arm as thin as a willow, and fingers as tiny as ice fishes.

Resting the heavy axe on her shoulder, a voice, "heh", came out of her mouth. While at the same time dead bodies of the bandits were piled up around her.

"Tee-hee-hee… Thanks a lot for tonight, Messieurs~"

The girl gently held her skirt and gave a curtsy.

From her appearance she seemed to be around thirteen. Her elegance and grace suggested good family background. On her face was a beautiful smile. But inside her iris were bottomless darkness.

"Th~anks a lot for the generous donation of your lives. On behalf of the chief god I would like to sho~w my gratitude. The god said he is interested in your acts and love to taste you~"

"Wh… what! Who the heck are you!?"

The atmosphere was so heavy that the surviving bandits felt like their stomach were being filled up with ice. But a few of them brazenly bluffed. The mere fact that they were able to make a sound already deserves praise.

"M~e?" The girl made a cute smile.
"My name is Rory Mercury. The apostle of Emroy the god."
"Isn’t that the priestess outfit of the Emroy Temple? Are… are you one of the twelve apostles… Rory the Reaper?"
"O~h, you know that? Tee-hee-hee. Correct answer~"

Right in front of the giggling girl, the bandits ran for their lives.
Jo… Joking… Must be joking… No way can we fight against an apostle!
Different souls give different screams. But all of them were trying their best to run from the jaw of death.

"No w~ay. Yo~u can’t escape~"

Rory jumped. Carrying a gigantic metal that could easily be as heavy as her, she attacked the bandits like a vicious carnivore. Heads were splat open like water melons, with pieces like minced meat being spread all over the place.

"HYAA… AAH… HIK…"

In front of a man who lost his balance from fear stood Rory in a relaxed face. When she was trying to lift up the heavy halberd, she tottered a bit, but still managed to raise it up in the air.

Her porcelain-like skin was tainted into red by spurts of blood.

"Hehehe… The God has said~, man ultimately dies~, and can never escape from it."

The axe blade swang down. What immediately followed was a final death scream.
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Old 2011-06-10, 06:59   Link #59
Roger Rambo
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It would seem this fanartist accurately captured the tone of this character and her fighting style. I love it.




Doraneko deserves Megas Kudos
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Old 2011-06-10, 13:03   Link #60
paladinenvec
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I love this =P, awesome that there are already people working on this i'd like to see a full chapter scanlated hehe...
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