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Old 2011-06-03, 13:04   Link #3121
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
... I don't think Hayate lasted even 10 minutes in her unison with Reinforce. Sorry, I just don't see it, Aki. I don't think a Unison Device is going to let Signum get back into the action.
Curious that you mention it, i don't think there's any official counting of the time spended with Reinforce but it was enough for:

-Cast the rebirth of the Wolkenritter(complete with epic Knight speeches from all four of them).
-Have a heartwarmly reunion with them as also forgive Vita.
-Talk to Nanoha and Fate and asking to Shamal for cure them.
-Have a freaking planning room chat with all the cast on various details from the constitution of the monster(which also take some time to born) to ways of defeating it to a little discussion about the use of the Arc-en-Ciel.
-The ensuing battle where she cast not one, but two humongous spells(the two with corresponding magic chant).
-A "give me five" with Nanoha and Fate.
-And then she finally faints surrounded by her knights xD.

Hardly all of that can be compressed under 10 minutes unless they're fighting on Namek xDU.

I won't try to convince you of the "Unison Recovery" hypothesis but i personally are against understimating Agito and Rein just because of their size and lack of juggernaut-esque powers(specially Rein, she's after all, Reinforce I's daughter/reincarnation). Just pointing out the "10 minutes" thing xD.
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Old 2011-06-03, 13:19   Link #3122
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I won't try to convince you of the "Unison Recovery" hypothesis but i personally are against understimating Agito and Rein just because of their size and lack of juggernaut-esque powers(specially Rein, she's after all, Reinforce I's daughter/reincarnation). Just pointing out the "10 minutes" thing xD.
Rein isn't a reincarnation of Reinforce. She's a 'regular' unison device created from Hayate's linker core. She hasn't inherited anything from Reinforce beyond one message Reinforce implanted in Hayate's core as a note to her successor.

Reinforce, on the other hand, wasn't just a unison device, she was a lost logia. A lost logia capable of destroying planets. You can't compare Rein or Agito with her.

Example in case: Unisoning with Agito did nothing to improve Zest's health.
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Old 2011-06-03, 13:25   Link #3123
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Hell, it got to the point where he couldn't unison with her again...
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Old 2011-06-03, 13:36   Link #3124
Akiyoshi
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Rein isn't a reincarnation of Reinforce. She's a 'regular' unison device created from Hayate's linker core. She hasn't inherited anything from Reinforce beyond one message Reinforce implanted in Hayate's core as a note to her successor.

Reinforce, on the other hand, wasn't just a unison device, she was a lost logia. A lost logia capable of destroying planets. You can't compare Rein or Agito with her.

Example in case: Unisoning with Agito did nothing to improve Zest's health.
Gonna search official confirmation of that, still sounds like a fun idea for an Agito/Rein centric adventure fanfic xD.

On the "Lost Logia" and "Zest" thing i can't deny that those two are pretty solid arguments. That's why i mentioned that it will be Hayate the one replicating the "healing" process on a much weaker version using her book to empower Agito somehow and unlike Hayate the condition of the "recovery" will be rapidly deteriorating allowing Signum/Agito only a small amount of time to fight on decent conditions. Of course, the scenario for such a risk and untrusty method can only be logically used fi the situation demands Signum's precense, otherwise it will be pretty dumb to risk Signum and Agito's lives when there are still healthy fighters out there capable of taking action.

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Hell, it got to the point where he couldn't unison with her again...
Definetly need to rewatch StrikerS xD
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Old 2011-06-03, 13:46   Link #3125
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The source on Rein's creation is A's sound stage 3, track 19. Hayate specifically talks about creating Rein as something she chose, and enlisting Yuuno and Mari to design her. This track also tells us that Hayate's book isn't the Book of Darkness, but a regular storage device created by the TSAB.
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Old 2011-06-03, 13:59   Link #3126
Akiyoshi
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*reading articles*

Yup, the New Tome of the Night Sky was created by Hayate herself(don't know how, tough) and the TSAB are the ones that helped her to create the Schwertkreuz to use in combination with the book, it's mentioned that the staff is now used to cast the spells from the book contrary to the past where the book can cast the spells by itself. Apparently this crumbles the option of a "book powered unison" along with any other theory related to "Hayate searching on the misteries of her previous awesome powers" xDU. The only connection with the old Reinforce and the true legacy of the Tome of the Night Sky is apparently the fusion of her Ein's linker core to Hayate's(and arguably the fact that rein Zwei is their "daughter" of sorts because she born of the combined core). Which still left open intersting possibilites, just much more harder to justify xDU.

Well, uhm, still hope an answer about my original question about the magic used to temporary allows Hayate's legs to move. xD
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:24   Link #3127
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Reinforce was the cause of the paralysis, so unison with her lifted the paralysis. Once Reinforce left, the paralysis was back again.
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:30   Link #3128
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I know her constant absortion of The Book of Darkness/Reinforce is what provoked her paralysis, the Unison somehow cured it temporarily, and after the de-unison Hayate's legs become disabled again. Then Reinforce "died" and Hayate spent years in rehab now that the damage to her body has stopped and it have now time to fix it normally. Still the mistery remains on how the unisom makes her able-bodied.

The world may never know.
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:39   Link #3129
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did we actually see Hayate walk, and not fly?

because it may just be a flight spell.
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:47   Link #3130
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We see Hayate moving her legs normally while unisoned, if that were the case her legs must be dancing like lifeless spaghettis xDU
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:51   Link #3131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I know her constant absortion of The Book of Darkness/Reinforce is what provoked her paralysis, the Unison somehow cured it temporarily, and after the de-unison Hayate's legs become disabled again. Then Reinforce "died" and Hayate spent years in rehab now that the damage to her body has stopped and it have now time to fix it normally. Still the mistery remains on how the unisom makes her able-bodied.
Hayate's legs were paralysed because Reinforce had been slowly draining her, when Reinforce unisoned what she drained was now again part of Hayate, making her 'whole' again.

That, or it's the flight spell. Flight spells seem to have telekinetic properties, so she could have simply been moving her legs like that instead of the usual way.
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Old 2011-06-03, 14:57   Link #3132
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Hayate's legs were paralysed because Reinforce had been slowly draining her, when Reinforce unisoned what she drained was now again part of Hayate, making her 'whole' again.
Hmmm... it actually makes sense, i can accept that as a good explanation for now. Thanks xD

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That, or it's the flight spell. Flight spells seem to have telekinetic properties, so she could have simply been moving her legs like that instead of the usual way.
Plausible, but i still find funny the idea of the flying spaghetti legs
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2011-06-03 at 15:30.
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Old 2011-06-03, 15:11   Link #3133
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There is this A's DVD booklet that says that when the Lord cannot handle the Unison Device, the latter completely takes over her body (Unison accident or somesuch). This was used to explain what happened when Hayate blacked out upon the Book's awakening: the body Nanoha and Fate were fighting was actually Hayate's, or rather a merger of both her and Reinforce's (while her consciousness was in that pocket dimension, talking to the Book's will). Her post-reprogramming Unison, however, was more her and less Eins (though her hair went almost white like Eins', for instance).

I think that's therefore logical that different levels of Unison are possible and it's up to the Device how much of itself will show up in the merger. In this case, Eins has simply replaced or merged Hayate's atrophied legs (and probably lower spine) with hers, as well as their Linker Cores, giving Hayate a fully-functional body again before it could heal properly (which took several more months after she was disconnected from the Book).

Okay, long text. To put it shortly: Unison Devices can probably choose which parts of their master's body to augment. Eins was able to give Hayate enormous mana output and replace her legs. Zwei and Agito may not be able to do the same.
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Old 2011-06-03, 15:31   Link #3134
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Zwei and Agito may not be able to do the same.
At least by themselves
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Old 2011-06-03, 16:32   Link #3135
Koveras Alvane
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That gave me an idea. If Subaru can use two Devices at once... Can Signum Unison with both Rein and Agito at the same time?
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Old 2011-06-03, 16:35   Link #3136
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It probably wouldn't be healthy, as the Devices would likely have to synchronize with each other as well as their user.
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Old 2011-06-03, 16:43   Link #3137
Akiyoshi
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Wow! I agree with Raising Dragon on that one, a double unison seems to be pretty dangerous xDU. If the info is correct, unison devices make some sort of connection with the user's linker core and also an special synch rate is required to do that. One can fantasize on that a little tough, taking in consideration that Signum is compatible with both Agito and Rein. But there's still some danger i don't know how that will work but i guess the strain for the three involved parts will be high. Normally, a control problem over the synch rate can lead to an "unison accident", i wonder what will happen with two unison devices.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2011-06-03 at 16:58.
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Old 2011-06-03, 16:51   Link #3138
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That sounds like it would make for awesome fanart (Rein with red streaked hair and bat wings slinging both fire and ice?). Unless the artist has a mind for horror. . .
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Old 2011-06-03, 16:59   Link #3139
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Yup, on the same train of tought i want to see an "unison accident" withy Signum and Agito. I totally want to see Agito's "adult form" xD!
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Old 2011-06-07, 10:12   Link #3140
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Which is correct: Scrya Clan or Scrya Tribe?
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