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Old 2011-06-03, 20:05   Link #721
Justin_Brett
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This isn't the manga to be getting so negative over, dude.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:00   Link #722
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... So negativity is only allowed in the Force thread?
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:10   Link #723
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Yeah, because it has a track record for not being very surprising in how fights and situations work out. IE, badly for the heroes basically every single time so far.

But like, in Vivid, recall when the mock battle started. Would you have thought Teana and Erio would be defeating their teachers in it? Probably not, but that's what happened.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:13   Link #724
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Yeah, but none of them have main character status. In this case, Einhart does. Can you honestly see her losing to Corona, the least combat orientated of the bunch, of all people? I'm sure the fight will go for a bit with both sides taking damage but it's a pretty safe assumption that Einhart will win.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:14   Link #725
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And so does Corona.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:16   Link #726
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No, Corona has secondary character status. Vivio and Einhart are the main characters of the story.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:23   Link #727
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I'd disagree there.

And even if she isn't, Erio was basically a secondary character in StrikerS, and here he beat someone who was one of the leads for three seasons. You shouldn't just go 'oh, she's gonna lose' based on what genre it is.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:28   Link #728
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Putting aside Einhart's main character armor, she's also stronger and more experienced. But looking at Miura's fight that means nothing. Then look at combat styles. Corona uses a big golem that, while powerful, is large and easy to dodge. If she even gets the chance to summon it. Corona herself is not very strong and is quite vulnerable. One good hit would probably do lots of damage. Looking at her fight with Rio, Rio was able to flip the golem over easily and Einhart fights in a similar fashion. Corona only beat Rio due to Rio being distracted by Caro.

Would it be pleasently surprising and genre breaking if Corona won? It sure would be. Is it likely to happen? Given Tsuzuki's perchant to stick to genre cliches so far, not very.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:32   Link #729
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Yeah, there you go, logic. Just say that.
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Old 2011-06-03, 21:34   Link #730
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Being a tournament, there's pretty much no way that it can complete without a matchup between Einhart and Vivio, given their main character status and rivalry set-up, so that means there's even less of a chance for Corona to win here.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:09   Link #731
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I still hold close my wish that Vivio gets mauled by Hoodie-girl, which inspires Einhart to go on to win the championship. I know it's not likely, but it is the outcome I wish to see.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:14   Link #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
I still hold close my wish that Vivio gets mauled by Hoodie-girl, which inspires Einhart to go on to win the championship. I know it's not likely, but it is the outcome I wish to see.

Cheers.
A toast to that.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:22   Link #733
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What I'm actually hoping for is for none of the main characters to reach the very top.

Sure, make Vivio or preferably Einhart reach top five, but just not the championship. It would be too much spotlight stealing for the supposed tournament elite participants. Plus, it would be boring if they get to the top so easily. Not even sports manga/anime would make the protagonists champions just from the first go.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:41   Link #734
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Didn't they say that Sieg had only lost a match before because she didn't show up?

Then again, I don't know why you'd foreshadow a complete cop-out like that so blatantly.
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Old 2011-06-04, 01:57   Link #735
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Not even sports manga/anime would make the protagonists champions just from the first go.
My experience on the genre is limited, so I'll let the experts answer: how 'bout Super Robot manga/anime cliches? Since Tsuzuki seems to solely relied on them as inspiration...
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Old 2011-06-04, 03:30   Link #736
LoweGear
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I kinda find that comment insulting somehow, as though you're implying super robot manga/anime cliches are bad for some reason. There are too few giant mecha anime that cover tournaments (G Gundam for example), and even then they rely more on shounen hero manga tropes than traditional super robot ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Not even sports manga/anime would make the protagonists champions just from the first go.
Well, there is an example I can think of from the top of my head: Angelic Layer, where Misaki becomes the year's national champion despite jumping into the entire Angelic Layer tournament scene as a novice - in fact she's only played Angelic Layer twice when she got shoehorned into the tournament by a certain mad professor.

Actually, while many sports-centric manga do feature the protagonists not becoming champions on their first try, shounen hero manga featuring tournaments often do have the protagonists come out as champions on their first tries, mostly because of the dire consequences they face if they don't. The only thing Vivio and gang have to lose in this story is their pride though, so there's no real need to become champions immediately.
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Old 2011-06-04, 03:35   Link #737
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Yu Yu Hakusho comes to mind.
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Old 2011-06-04, 04:29   Link #738
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Well, YYH had the reverse- Yusuke won his first two tournaments, and got powned on the prelims of the third.
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Old 2011-06-04, 05:12   Link #739
Nightengale
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I would say that for most parts, the reasons most protagonist are shoe-horned towards obtaining ultimate victory for tournaments at their debut is because they couldn't afford to lose them and the stakes were too high.

Yu Yu Hakusho was that kind of interesting twist of events, because Yuusuke literally turned a 'high stakes must win situation' his third time round into a... friendly and relatively light-hearted sporting event.

Still, something like that are highly determinant of the author's intentions and values at play so it's not always standard.

Look at the Gary Stu of the Sports Manga World, Oozora Tsubasa for example. He has literally almost never ever ever lost when things needed to count, no matter how small that count is.
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Old 2011-06-04, 06:38   Link #740
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But these are not the "Finals". Just the rounds to determine who'll represent Mid-Childa (or was it District?). Even if one of the "main" cast win this Championship, she'll still need to face off the other representatives from the other worlds.

Cheers.
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