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Old 2011-06-03, 18:45   Link #1
bradosia
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Has anyone made an anime?

I don't mean professionally made. I mean like made with you and friends all working for the enjoyment. I ask this because I'm really curious to see what a fan made anime looks like. I've seen some forum posts about people wanting help making an anime, but it always ends up being a person who knows nothing about anime production and has no talents of their own except that they want to make action.

If anyone could point me to a fan made anime that has a plot that would be awesome. I really want to know if they exist. Usually user made projects die in the planning phase, but I want to see that someone was successful. I'm curious.

Well I did a search on the forum and I found topics that make no progress:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...t=making+anime
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...t=making+anime

Last edited by bradosia; 2011-06-03 at 19:32.
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Old 2011-06-03, 23:05   Link #2
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A 20 minute episode of anime would require 14,400 separate drawings at *12* frames per second (decent anime is usually 24fps or better) .... not saying it isn't impossible but other than a college team doing it as an arts project I find it difficult to visualize a "hobbyist" effort even with the latest software art tools.
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Old 2011-06-03, 23:17   Link #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
A 20 minute episode of anime would require 14,400 separate drawings at *12* frames per second (decent anime is usually 24fps or better) .... not saying it isn't impossible but other than a college team doing it as an arts project I find it difficult to visualize a "hobbyist" effort even with the latest software art tools.
Indeed, which is what makes Makoto Shinkai's breakthrough feat as an independent animator that much more remarkable.
After graduating from the university (1994), Shinkai got a job in a computer game company and learned CG for five years by making video clips for games and graphic design including web content. He made many wonderful video clips for games, but they are short ones for about several minutes, so he felt dissatisfied. He wanted to make longer anime to demonstrate his creativity and imagination.

He had been making paper-play like CG works during his school days with a computer. From 1997, he began to make short CG anime on his private time. After some studies such Tooi Sekai, he made a short five-minute anime film
Kanojo to Kanojo no Neko (She and Her Cat).

She and Her Cat won awards in some contests. However, the biggest rewards he got from this film were not awards but Mr Hagiwara (who later became his producer) and CoMix Wave (company of copyright management and produce).

I doubt there are many people masochistic enough to make their own anime "for fun", though I could of course be wrong. We have at least one known student animator in this forum, C.A., so who knows? Maybe he has created some of his own in his spare time.

In the meantime, you may be interested in this thread that popped up in the General sub-forum late last year, about an amazing short created by a trio of Taiwan film-art students: Out of Sight.
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Old 2011-06-03, 23:27   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
A 20 minute episode of anime would require 14,400 separate drawings at *12* frames per second (decent anime is usually 24fps or better) .... not saying it isn't impossible but other than a college team doing it as an arts project I find it difficult to visualize a "hobbyist" effort even with the latest software art tools.
Most anime is just panning still pictures with lip flapping so there are not that many original key frames as you say, but I understand the difficulty. I guess manga is more manageable since you remove audio, color, backgrounds...

Quote:
In the meantime, you may be interested in this thread that popped up in the General sub-forum late last year, about an amazing short created by a trio of Taiwan film-art students: Out of Sight.
Thanks for the link. Cool three people did that, that's some talent. I wonder how long it took them.

Yes and I do remember Voices of a Distant Star from that guy you mentioned.
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Old 2011-06-04, 00:00   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradosia View Post
Most anime is just panning still pictures with lip flapping so there are not that many original key frames as you say, but I understand the difficulty. I guess manga is more manageable since you remove audio, color, backgrounds...
Even doing those tricks or like in Evangelion they used lotsa scenes showing the characters' back so they don't need to animate their lips, it's a herculean effort. There is an anime called Midori and like Voices of a Distant Star it's an one-man-job. However, the animation is far cry compared to Makoto Shinkai's masterpiece. Midori took like 5 years to be finished.

Even crappy animated stuff like Naruto fillers are amazing considering they had a really tight schedule to finish them.
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Old 2011-06-04, 00:00   Link #6
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Shin-chan quality animations crop up all the time at the short film festivals, so it's certainly possible; just requires dedication. For anime specifically, there's the fan made Touhou anime - Musou Kakyou: A Summer Day's Dream. But I do know that was done by a decent sized team of zealous fans.

One potential light is to look into flash animation as there quite a few of those out there in the world and they *seem* to be easier and considerably faster to do versus traditional animation.
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Old 2011-06-04, 00:14   Link #7
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One potential light is to look into flash animation as there quite a few of those out there in the world and they *seem* to be easier and considerably faster to do versus traditional animation.
Yea that's definitely possible. But as soon as you use flash you can say goodbye to cute characters and hello to deformed main character comedies. I guess anime assumes higher quality animation with more dedication.

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Even doing those tricks or like in Evangelion they used lotsa scenes showing the characters' back so they don't need to animate their lips, it's a herculean effort.
Yes hehe, Evangelion is my first taste at what budget cuts do to anime quality. I love the 2 minute scene on the elevator where shinji and rei are silent for what seems like an eternity. Also the abstract ending with images floating everywhere with constant repeats.

I guess indie anime would greatly reduce the quality and increase workload to the point where the product looks unbearably grotesque to the work put in.
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Old 2011-06-04, 10:59   Link #8
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
In the meantime, you may be interested in this thread that popped up in the General sub-forum late last year, about an amazing short created by a trio of Taiwan film-art students: Out of Sight.
Aye.. the "Out of Sight" short is one of my all time favorites.
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Old 2011-06-04, 11:58   Link #9
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Originally Posted by bradosia View Post
Yea that's definitely possible. But as soon as you use flash you can say goodbye to cute characters and hello to deformed main character comedies. I guess anime assumes higher quality animation with more dedication.
Actually, you can make high quality animations with Flash, it just takes dedication and hard work and lots of time and in many cases one needs to use other programs for backgrounds and other effects.

For instance here is a flash animation with some amazing quality.



here are a few other videos showing how one can still make fluid looking movements even with flash and still make somewhat high quality works.



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Old 2011-06-04, 14:07   Link #10
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I didn't make any animation that I'd call Japanese anime, but for the past year in my animation course I've made at least five 1 minute short animations, and a whole bunch of animations 30 seconds and below.

We were to experiment as much as we can therefore we've done everything from traditional hand drawn, stop motion, claymation, wipe board, paper flipping to computer animation like Flash and Maya.

You can create awesome animation with any medium, its all a matter of technique, time and effort. If we're talking about animation quality here, even at an amateur level, I'm sure with the the right technique and drawing skills, one can do a good animation. But animation is never easy, be it traditional or computer animation.

Here's an example that was shown in my class, a completely independent production written and animated by a single animator. It was one of the most outstanding work for an independent animation competition in Japan.

Fumiko's Confession:



In my opinion one of the best points of this animation are the camera work and perspective. He cleverly used perspectives for the still backgrounds through out the entire animation. For the buildings that move past rapidly in the middle portion of the animation, he made them in 3D. I really think its the entire setting, the backgrounds that make this animation interesting. You can almost call this a 'background driven' story lol, the girl literally is forced to move by the terrain.

But yes, the plot, a good story should have a good plot. What is story and what is plot?

The story of Fumiko's Confession is as its title suggest, Fumiko wants to confess to the guy she likes. The plot? Fumiko's confession failed, so she ran away with a burst of emotions and ends up flying through the town and straight into the guy he likes at the bottom of the hill.

Its a simple story, simple is always good. Don't think too much for a story, especially since we're talking about amateur level work here, even if its professional its not always good to have complicated story lines.

Think of a story you want to tell, make it simple. Then think of how you can make it interesting, think of what others have done before for your type of story, then don't do it in those ways. Do your story in a way that nobody has done before. But then again thinking of a story and writing it is always difficult.

Alternatively, or actually a better way, is to think of a message that you want to tell. Then write a story that tells the message. The story and its plot is not the message. For example, the newspaper says that recently there has been a number of murders at night in the neighbourhood, this is the story. The message is, we should be careful at night and keep the kids at home.

I guess I'll say this much for now, its becoming quite a big post lol. Maybe the message for this post is that animation is hard to do, but it can be done if you know what to do.
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Last edited by C.A.; 2011-06-05 at 12:00.
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Old 2011-06-05, 05:37   Link #11
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Here's an example that was shown in my class, a completely independent production written and animated by a single animator. It was one of the most outstanding work for an independent animation competition in Japan.

Fumiko's Confession:
Oh my gawd, that was truly awesome!

For a moment there, I though she was going to "Leapt Through Time"
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Old 2011-06-05, 19:47   Link #12
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Actually, you can make high quality animations with Flash, it just takes dedication and hard work and lots of time and in many cases one needs to use other programs for backgrounds and other effects.
Your right! That animation looks really well made even though it was made in flash. But i doubt they drew in the actual program, rather compiled the images inside. As for the two other videos its cartoon styled rather than anime.

Thanks for posting the videos though, it's great to see the quality of independently made anime and how they pull off the animation.
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:22   Link #13
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Sadly, if you're not Japanese in Japan -- then you can't make anime because so many people are stuck on the idea that "anime has to be made in Japan". That's based on some "Japanese only" definition; that is really an archaic definition in today's age. At the very least, you'll be relegated to making a cartoon (not by my decree). If your work ever gets out there, no one else will call it anime.

Just look at the attempts at "web manga". Non-Japanese who produced manga looking stuff and displayed their work in the web. Well, they're deemed as "web comics". I haven't read much of any of this stuff though; so, if anyone knows anything that best resembles "web manga made by a 'white' person", lemme know. And I haven't looked at Megatokyo in a long long time.

Regardless, if you really want to make some kind of indie anime, go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradosia
it always ends up being a person who knows nothing about anime production and has no talents of their own except that they want to make action.
Animation takes a lot of work. It's a complex process. Even with computer aided tools.
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Old 2011-06-06, 20:03   Link #14
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It's more of a "poorly made motion comic" than "anime," but for the past two years, I've been working on my own project, Kisuke no Seitenkan.



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Old 2011-06-06, 20:09   Link #15
bradosia
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Sadly, if you're not Japanese in Japan -- then you can't make anime because so many people are stuck on the idea that "anime has to be made in Japan". That's based on some "Japanese only" definition; that is really an archaic definition in today's age. At the very least, you'll be relegated to making a cartoon (not by my decree). If your work ever gets out there, no one else will call it anime.

Just look at the attempts at "web manga". Non-Japanese who produced manga looking stuff and displayed their work in the web. Well, they're deemed as "web comics". I haven't read much of any of this stuff though; so, if anyone knows anything that best resembles "web manga made by a 'white' person", lemme know. And I haven't looked at Megatokyo in a long long time.
Yep. Anyone can make anime as long as it follows the general look and style of anime or else its just a cartoon in my opinion. Anime to me implies a greater quality of work.

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It's more of a "poorly made motion comic" than "anime," but for the past two years, I've been working on my own project, Kisuke no Seitenkan.
That's awesome. really good anime work. I guess there are works that are dotted throughout the internet. I need to look harder.
Wow i just watched a few episodes. That was all solo made? That's incredible.
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Old 2011-06-07, 23:19   Link #16
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Anime to me implies a greater quality of work.
Do I need to post a .gif of the cabbage from Yoake Mae Yori Ruri Iro Na? There's nothing about anime that implies quality. It's all a matter of the staff and how much budget they have to work with.

Also, flash is a perfectly acceptable form of animation these days. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic is done in flash, and animation is usually cited as one of its strong points.
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Old 2011-06-08, 16:55   Link #17
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Yep. Anyone can make anime as long as it follows the general look and style of anime or else its just a cartoon in my opinion. Anime to me implies a greater quality of work.
If we're talking about overall quality here, anime does not have any greater quality compared to a normal 'cartoon'. If we were to break down into individual components, such as story, style, voice acting characters, backgrounds, there is one very important component that anime is lacking alot: Animation.

To an animator, the animation in anime is extremely jerky and simple. The frame rate of anime is only 8 - 12 frames per second compared to western animation which uses full 24 or 25 frames per second. Even though the backgrounds, clouds and such are moving at 25 fps, an anime character is still moving at 8 fps. Every time when it comes to frame rate and smoothness of animation, I would refer back to Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, it had masterful animation even when it was created in 1937. Skip to 3:10 for the best part, where Snow White starts to dance.



The animation is extremely smooth, even her skirt, just look at it, I was completely mesmerised by it when I watched it after I learned about the principles of animation. Look at their facial expressions, the way their lips, cheeks and chins move, the way they blink and the direction of their eyes. I'd say Japanese anime haven't achieved what Disney has been able to do in animating techniques even since Snow White.

Anime facial expression and movement is where animation technique is most lacking, especially for female characters. Because of how the general female character is drawn, they don't have much lines on their face and have a lack of facial features. The almost have no nose, when they talk, their tiny mouths move on their own, the facial shape doesn't change because their cheeks and chins don't move. They have beautifully drawn eyes, but they are not animated much.

A lot of times there are still frames and looping animation in anime. After I started animating myself, I found that I do not have much patience to sit through anime as before. Most of the time when characters talk, you are literally looking at still frames. You would be looking at characters standing still most of the time, with a looping mouth animation or even worse, showing their backs, the worst, panning of a still background. Dialogue and seiyuu definitely help studios save lots of animation effort.

Even with a bigger budget for anime movies, the quality of animation is still not as good as the west. The general audience is not captured by the animation of anime, but the style , the appeal and the stories. If anything anime dares to try more unusual, mature and darker stories, for the general audience at least. In the world of artistic and experimental animation, anime and cartoons are all considered mainstream and conventional. Its hard to explain animation in detail, but no matter what type of animation it is, anime, cartoon, stop motion, video games etc. it will always require a lot of hard work to do something good that appeals to audience.
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Old 2011-06-08, 17:56   Link #18
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TBH, other than using Maya for building models, I have never used it for moving objects and frames, so I have little or no idea how much work is put into the anime we watch other than the music composition.

From my view, animating facial expressions can be ridiculously tough, but when it is well done, the effects from the anime we watch on a regular basis are starkly different, like this :



But certain parts ingame aren't as well-synced.....



And this is the original game from 1998.

I wonder how many hours went into coordinating the facial and body movements, especially the minute movement of the shoulders with the breasts when breathing(though I think most of you would just stare at the chest movement.....poor Mana)
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Old 2011-06-08, 20:57   Link #19
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I don't know if you've seen this thread before (it's an old one), but a user here is making a Doctor Who fan anime:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=68780
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Old 2011-06-25, 14:01   Link #20
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
If we're talking about overall quality here, anime does not have any greater quality compared to a normal 'cartoon'. If we were to break down into individual components, such as story, style, voice acting characters, backgrounds, there is one very important component that anime is lacking alot: Animation.
Oh Actually I agree with you. Animation is weak. It's just that anime makes characters look cute.

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Originally Posted by GreatTeacherKen View Post
I don't know if you've seen this thread before (it's an old one), but a user here is making a Doctor Who fan anime:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=68780
Wow that guy is really talented.
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