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Old 2011-06-04, 23:19   Link #621
Poetic Justice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jao View Post
1, In comparison to what exactly?

2, You have seen the animated intro right?
1: In comparison to every other Visual Novel intro ever, Girl standing in rain, Check. Hugging girl with bewildered look, Check.Awful song accompanied with terrible guitar solo, Check. I could go on and on.

2: I'm talking about this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-4_Bz0wAg
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Old 2011-06-04, 23:33   Link #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
1: In comparison to every other Visual Novel intro ever, Girl standing in rain, Check. Hugging girl with bewildered look, Check.Awful song accompanied with terrible guitar solo, Check. I could go on and on.

2: I'm talking about this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-4_Bz0wAg
I'm afraid I don't see it. It's no Remember11/Ever17 intro, but it's definitely a cut above the usual.

Also the song is great.
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Old 2011-06-05, 05:17   Link #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
2: I'm talking about this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-4_Bz0wAg
Who cares about that opening?

Go watch the animated one if you haven't already. That should give you a better indication of what the game is about.
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Old 2011-06-05, 07:50   Link #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Who cares about that opening?

Go watch the animated one if you haven't already. That should give you a better indication of what the game is about.
Ok that was much better.
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Old 2011-06-05, 09:55   Link #625
Ceral
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I need to get this off my chest: That 2nd OP is getting so much praise everywhere I go, but personally I hate it. I guess you all must be shonen-action anime fans? Because that anime looks like something to come on after an episode of Bleach or Naruto. News-flash: Key isn't into making shonen-action ANYTHING, and if they start, I think they really risk irking their core fanbase. I became a Key fan because their works have been tasteful and artistic with story arcs that didn't involve giant mechas, aliens, or heroes fighting it out on a constant basis using their super powers. I can't stand those shonen-action anime that aim to be cool, trite and when not fighting, perpetually building up for the next battle. Watching the 2nd OP, I could really care less about teenagers fighting it out with giant wolves on the moon.

I don't know why Key fans who actually like their works and buy their stuff would like this OP unless by coincidence they also happen to consume a lot of shonen-action material. I mean this doesn't even look like high quality seinen-action material, something like GITS or Bebop, I might be a little bit forgivable about that. This looks like Bleach, I'm not hating, I actually kind of liked Bleach when I saw it many many years ago, but to be honest, this is what it looks like, and I haven't been remotely interested in something like this for at least 5 years.

Just sayin', because the 2nd OP looks like they're trying way too hard to go mainstream, frankly I think they'll really piss off their core fanbase if they keep getting away from what they're good at. Now from playing the demo, I know that they haven't gotten too far away from what they usually do. BTW I love their 1st OP, but 2nd OP... well at least they gave me a fair warning so I don't go too crazy while I'm playing...
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Old 2011-06-05, 10:13   Link #626
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I actually think that this opening is leading to a lot of possibilities, especially if you put that one and the first one in conjunction: so far, everything has been confirmed as coming from the very same game, which means that both "classic" and "action" packed sequences are from the very same story.

Suffice to say, as much as Key is known for a very specific genre, remaining in their own foil isn't always that good. I don't imply they should try going on something similar to Nitro+ for example, but if they can balance out things, it wouldn't be a waste in my opinion, especially considering it is something imagined by the founder of the company, while we still have Maeda being the QC.
Personally, whilst I don't enjoy shonen things that much, actions of that kind might be a breath of fresh air, as long as it is executed properly in a way that would blend well with the rest. So far, the second opening doesn't really have much indication about that (or against that), and nothing aside of the actual game will show what kind of stuff that would bridge both polarized sides.

It would be probably wiser waiting for the complete release, instead of making a hasty conclusion, regardless which opening it is (generic 1, or "shonen" one), as each statement are basically alienating that game for no damn reason. Judging from its cover basically (which was a mistake to begin with, illustrated by Kotori: everyone expected your classic airhead/moe blob, and we got something drastically different).

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-06-05 at 10:37.
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Old 2011-06-05, 11:19   Link #627
Ceral
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Well i think that Key has a very unique "Genre" already. If they want to improve their works, I think they should improve on what they already do well instead of changing the genre. I think there's enough fantasy and super-power works that are already made (American Comics have enough of this stuff already.) I've never seen anything quite like what Key has made, which is why I'm worried about this "Change". I don't want them to stop making what they're making because frankly I don't think I can find their sort of "Genre" elsewhere.

I wouldn't be bothered by this 2nd OP by itself, except that it's made by Key, whose works I've come to love and expect a certain something from. Tons of action just isn't something I expect. I know there's been some swordplay in about every Key VN, but I don't think anyone ever bought a Visual Novel by Key to read about the one or two fighting scenes in that specific game. But this 2nd OP seems to really sell that (Hey buy this VN!, we've got a lot of really cool action scenes and super powers!). I don't buy a VN to read about fighting scenes, and I would never have expected Key to sell me something based on that. Honestly, if it weren't for the demo and 1st OP, I would seriously reconsider my pre-order of Rewrite based on just the 2nd OP.

It just puzzles me that more people aren't up in arms about this 2nd OP, Key just isn't known for this. I'm sure I can't be the only person who liked Clannad or Little Busters! and appreciated their brand of fiction that scarcely used any horror/action. With all of Keys works I have been satisfied beyond all expectation. With the new writers and the 2nd OP, I'm a little worried, I'd prefer there be more fans be a little apprehensive about this incase Rewrite happens to be go too overboard on this "Action" and "Superpowers" thing. If Key ends up making works that all end up being like Angel Beats, that'd make me very sad, as I'd lose being able to read works that I love.

The demo is pretty darn good though, so I agree, let's just read this Visual Novel before we make anymore judgements .

Last edited by Ceral; 2011-06-05 at 11:33.
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Old 2011-06-05, 11:34   Link #628
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The irony is that Angel Beats is actually even more "faithful" than Rewrite, since it was written by Maeda (although the execution and screenplay was probably altered, AB was his idea as a whole), so that's actually part of the company main writer as well.
In fact, AB is definitely quite close to LB heritage, so you may actually argue that LB was already an indication of some additional themes being added in their usual stories.

Also, I still don't get why you are so touchy about that opening: an opening may give the headlines and themes of a given VN, but that's arguably not a summary of it, especially that the main opening is still the first one no matter how you look at it.
So I don't get why you are so upset about that, despite we have absolutely no idea how predominant the action will be nor how it will blend with the rest.

Therefore, expecting it to be the "main selling point" is rather way too hasty, and it is a tad too much to expect a company to stick on the same formula if they are actually willing to test new waters, without going completely on the opposite direction (otherwise, the trial itself would definitely not be anything close to the previous works).

I can see why some people may be worried that this game is definitely "un-key like" but at the same time, it is really puzzling to have such response while we don't have the full picture.
That's like crying foul that about Muv Luv Alternative having mecha compared to what age has done, and actually realizing that it is much more character centred than just "pew pew" festival.
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Old 2011-06-05, 11:40   Link #629
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I for one am all for people who try to find new markets and new possibilities. Coping yourself up in your own niche can be good in the short term,but eventually as with everything you will just go stale (In the sense that eventually you will produce the best you can do in a given genre and from there it will only go downhill).

And yes, you heard this from a KyoAni fanboy.
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Old 2011-06-05, 11:52   Link #630
Ceral
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(edited my last post, it pretty much has all my counterpoints... sorry I couldn't articulate what I wanted to say the first time, I don't post often enough to be so skilled :P.)

Yes, I know that Maeda headed Angel Beats, but that doesn't make it more "Faithful" just because of the creator. I look at the material, and there are just way too many action scenes, and the climaxes of each of the character arcs, all feel way too rushed. I never felt compelled by any of the story arcs in Angel Beats. I don't want a repeat of that.

And I'm actually quite open minded to the new writers, and I AM withholding judgement.

By putting a magnifying glass on this 2nd OP and throwing this out there, I'd like to see more discontent seen in the community if it does get changed. I know a lot of people hated Angel Beats that loved Clannad. But Angel Beats has such a good rating, probably because a lot of people who weren't interested in what Key usually makes watched it, I woul venture a guess. If this game ends up being something like Nitro or too close to Higurashi, man, I'd be really disappointed. Yet I think this VN would be considered a commercial success still. This OP just scares me, I'm not saying the game will be a failure or anything, it's a sign of change from what they usually write about though...
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Old 2011-06-05, 12:12   Link #631
Ceral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I for one am all for people who try to find new markets and new possibilities. Coping yourself up in your own niche can be good in the short term,but eventually as with everything you will just go stale (In the sense that eventually you will produce the best you can do in a given genre and from there it will only go downhill).

And yes, you heard this from a KyoAni fanboy.

A lot of people say Clannad was the pinnacle, Little Busters went past my expectations though. A lot of people will say they made changes in LB, like making it more comedic and focused on friendship. IMO that's still very much Key-Esque. That's a change I can live with. The changes that occur with Angel Beats, for example, were way too much. They went full blown sci-fi from the start, most Key games are actually very ordinary until some massive plot twist, and before that they get you emotionally invested in the characters beforehand. Well i'm not gonna sit and pick apart everything a Key Game is, but I don't think they should change what their games "Fundamentally" are.

And what says we reached the pinnacle of whatever genre Key has been making? With the formula they have, I haven't been bored by any of their games yet, maybe after a few boring VNs that basically followed the Clannad formula, I'd be open to major change. Until then, if they start making VNs that are like Angel Beats before I'm bored with what their making, I think being a bit PO'ed is something a fan should be entitled too. No one else makes em like Key does. But I like the demo and I like the game and all the characters so far , I am just trying to be proactive as a fan. I don't like the 2nd OP or what it'd represent in a VN :P.
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Old 2011-06-05, 18:58   Link #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceral View Post
A lot of people say Clannad was the pinnacle, Little Busters went past my expectations though. A lot of people will say they made changes in LB, like making it more comedic and focused on friendship. IMO that's still very much Key-Esque. That's a change I can live with. The changes that occur with Angel Beats, for example, were way too much. They went full blown sci-fi from the start, most Key games are actually very ordinary until some massive plot twist, and before that they get you emotionally invested in the characters beforehand. Well i'm not gonna sit and pick apart everything a Key Game is, but I don't think they should change what their games "Fundamentally" are.


If we're allowed to talk things that aren't officially key...

(Key core staff before they founded Key)


(Jun Maeda)
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Old 2011-06-05, 20:57   Link #633
Ceral
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Originally Posted by VDZ View Post


If we're allowed to talk things that aren't officially key...

(Key core staff before they founded Key)


(Jun Maeda)
I have no problem with Planetarian, it was a very short side project for a few staff members. I don't care if Maeda goes off to make Tomoyo After, Angel Beats, Hibiki's, etc, as long as stuff like Little Busters is still coming out. I just don't want them to stop making what I like, which is almost everything that officially has the Key label on it. (I know TA is labeled Key etc, I wasn't implying it wasn't...) But yea, I'd rather avoid a situation where Key starts only releasing stuff like Planetarian anyway. If Planetarian was their major title and they had 5 characters, and it was as long as their main titles and not a 5 hour game, I think they'd have a lot of angry fans. The fact that they treated it like a side-project, is why no one has a problem with that, I would hope. If Rewrite turned out to be an 80+ hour version of Planetarian with action scenes, I know I would be disappointed.
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Old 2011-06-05, 23:35   Link #634
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I disagree. Authors and companies should not be bound to creating games or content for anyone. An artist first and foremost should not be creating something for its public but for themselves. Although a company often tries to pander to its public and fanbase by rehashing the same themes, it is often the most creative companies that appeal to a wider range of the market than just a small segment of it. It's a choice of remaining on a niche or giving some space to the creators. Personally I'll advocate for the later time and time again, not only because of the reasons mentioned but because by trying different things people grow both artistically and professionally.

And on a personal level, I want to be surprised and rocked off my socks. If Key play it safe they would be able to come up with something good, but most probably it wouldn't be anything groundbreaking.
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Old 2011-06-06, 01:25   Link #635
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Originally Posted by VDZ View Post


If we're allowed to talk things that aren't officially key...

(Key core staff before they founded Key)


(Jun Maeda)
And I'll also toss



in there.

Ceral, I can't believe you can say with an honest face that Key post-Clannad is similar in vein to what they've done before it, on or off label. You may have liked Little Busters, it still doesn't mean it was 100% something "Key-like" and then you go criticizing Angel Beats! for not being the same, singling it out as the only outlier in Key's current productions that deviates when it's clear that the company has been diversifying its style and moving away from pure nakige style for years now and Rewrite is just another step in that vein.
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Old 2011-06-06, 02:36   Link #636
Ceral
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And I'll also toss



in there.

Ceral, I can't believe you can say with an honest face that Key post-Clannad is similar in vein to what they've done before it, on or off label. You may have liked Little Busters, it still doesn't mean it was 100% something "Key-like" and then you go criticizing Angel Beats! for not being the same, singling it out as the only outlier in Key's current productions that deviates when it's clear that the company has been diversifying its style and moving away from pure nakige style for years now and Rewrite is just another step in that vein.
Eh? You're misunderstanding me completely. What's the point of posting pics of Kud Wafter and Tomoya After? They're spinoffs of the nakige that I am speaking about and are written in practically the same styles. If you read what I'm saying at all, I'm actually very happy that they made those spinoffs. They don't have an ounce of shonen action anime in them. Look, I'm not saying that Key should spew out Clannad clones every other year. I don't think they have been either, there are many differences from VN to VN, such as Air and Clannad. Air had a lot of fantasy elements but it was done beautifully. My concern is that they start using fantasy elements so they can make something mainstream that'll appeal to a larger demographic, such as preteens, the same way Bleach does. And I'm not saying Clannad doesn't appeal to preteens, (I feel you guys are picking out the smallest things to grill me on, I promise you I am not trying to imply things that I don't specifically say.) Obviously though, the style of writing from Clannad or Air or even Planetarian is a whole lot different from Bleach or Angel Beats IMO.

If you don't believe me, watch the first episode of Angel Beats, and watch the first episode of Clannad. Angel Beats is a whole lot concerned with looking flashy and cool. Even ignore the fact that they have action scenes, they even decided to stick in an All Girl's Band in the Afterlife. Do you really think that was for plot? I think they just wanted to sell more CDs.

I just don't want them to ever making something that is solely based on that 2nd OP. Now if you've read any of my posts, you'd know I don't believe that this is what they're making. All I am saying is that I don't like that 2nd OP, because it represents something that has way too much action, way too much flash, and you know, to be honest, I used to have some shonen anime liking bones in me, and that 2nd OP... What can I say? I'm about as underwhelmed as when I saw a commercial for a Pokemon, that's what that 2nd OP reminds me of. But enough, I'll reiterate that I like this game and it's characters a lot, based on the demo, I just don't like the 2nd OP.
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Old 2011-06-06, 02:58   Link #637
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Keep in mind who is writing this and what they are known for. I think most people were expecting Rewrite to be a little different from Key's usual style.

And although I haven't seen much of it here, rest assured that the pure nakige fans ARE up in arms about it.
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Old 2011-06-06, 02:59   Link #638
Ceral
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I'm not trying to say that Key should remain stagnant and make the same games over and over. Angel Beats was very different from what Key has made before, but even though it was "Different" it had more cliches than anything else I've seen from Key. It's like they decided to throw in every cliche in anime they could think of into Angel Beats. Yes, some of it in jest, perhaps, but you can't take the whole work as a joke, there were moments where they tried to be serious too. When I look at the 2nd OP, it's not original to me, it might be different from what Key is used to making, but Koutaro with a flaming fist... that's not original at all. Fighting some monsters on the moon, this is something that I feel I've seen a dozen times in the past when I actually used to watch these types of things. The girl in the sky, woo damn, that was original! The 2nd OP doesn't look like that though.
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Old 2011-06-06, 03:11   Link #639
Ceral
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Keep in mind who is writing this and what they are known for. I think most people were expecting Rewrite to be a little different from Key's usual style.

And although I haven't seen much of it here, rest assured that the pure nakige fans ARE up in arms about it.
Mm, yea, I actually think I'm a lot more optimistic than those who brand it a failure already. I think I heard a little bit of doomsay before I started playing Little Busters, but I ended up liking it a lot. I'm actually kind of moderate on this whole issue, if say, everyone was saying how crappy the 2nd OP looked (Yea of course I would agree with them.) but then I'd also point out the 1st OP and the demo, and tell them to withhold judgement.
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Old 2011-06-06, 03:19   Link #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceral View Post
My concern is that they start using fantasy elements so they can make something mainstream that'll appeal to a larger demographic, such as preteens, the same way Bleach does. And I'm not saying Clannad doesn't appeal to preteens, (I feel you guys are picking out the smallest things to grill me on, I promise you I am not trying to imply things that I don't specifically say.) Obviously though, the style of writing from Clannad or Air or even Planetarian is a whole lot different from Bleach or Angel Beats IMO.
This point of concern is still quite weird in my books: why would a single aspect of a story/execution warrant such expectation?
I mean, you can't call Muv Luv Alternative as a "shonen" VN because of the presence of mecha, can you?
Likewise, I don't get why you would expect them to try appealing people for "mainstream" stuff, while we have Romeo and Ryukishi being nothing close to "mainstream" stuff, nor why they would make a VN, which is nothing but a niche market.

I don't try preying on the little details, but the way you express yourself is basically hard not to interpret another way: you are taking AB as an example of what will/can happen to rewrite and not giving a thought how both can work together.

Quote:
If you don't believe me, watch the first episode of Angel Beats, and watch the first episode of Clannad. Angel Beats is a whole lot concerned with looking flashy and cool. Even ignore the fact that they have action scenes, they even decided to stick in an All Girl's Band in the Afterlife. Do you really think that was for plot? I think they just wanted to sell more CDs.
I will stop you right there: there is a huge difference between the author idea, and the way how an anime studio execute it. You have to realize that an anime is bound to budget restraints, which is heavily dictated by producers as well. Maeda is known to have a liking for bands (which is natural considering his other hobbies) and it is quite natural to exploit a portion of the story for marketing purpose. Likewise, fleshing out actions may appeal more people in general for a short series. And even so, people noticed how dichotomic AB was: action/comedy were stuffed a way too tightly with some "nakige" elements which made the series looks like in identity crisis. That would have happened to Clannad etc if the animation studio were to do jack in transitions, composition etc.

This can be illustrated by how different both Kanon anime series were, even if you cut some slack to Toei for adapting it with only 13 episodes. Likewise, you can notice how drastically different Clannad TV and Clannad movie were, despite they are both based on the very same story.

I do not expect AB to be that far from Maeda's ideas, but it is obvious that AB would have been extremely different depending of the director and could potentially be more in line with other Key TV anime (in fact, AB is, as I said before, extremely close to LB, be it mood and themes, despite the premises are no way close).
Quote:
I just don't want them to ever making something that is solely based on that 2nd OP. Now if you've read any of my posts, you'd know I don't believe that this is what they're making. All I am saying is that I don't like that 2nd OP, because it represents something that has way too much action, way too much flash, and you know, to be honest, I used to have some shonen anime liking bones in me, and that 2nd OP... What can I say? I'm about as underwhelmed as when I saw a commercial for a Pokemon, that's what that 2nd OP reminds me of. But enough, I'll reiterate that I like this game and it's characters a lot, based on the demo, I just don't like the 2nd OP.
The problem I see is still the fact all of us have no clue how it will be used, and you assume that these parts will be squeezed in a huge chunk like any shonen anime series, despite we -do not know-.
Again, do you remember LB? It has a lot of fun stuff but also -brawling- things that could be your shonen fair any day of the week. If we make a LB animated OP, they potentially could pull the LB fighting stuff, baseball and Saya sequences, and that would "look like some shonen franchise" despite it isn't anything close.

To each their own I guess, but again, this opening is hardly that far from what Key has done in the past.
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