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Old 2011-06-05, 21:33   Link #761
00-Raiser
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Case in point: the logical outcome should have been Miura losing to a superior fighter. Obviously that didn't happen. All too often meta reasons trump in story logic.
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Old 2011-06-05, 22:12   Link #762
LoweGear
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There's really nothing meta about it though, just narrative license, which has been directing the flow of stories for thousands of years. It's just David beating Goliath with a single stone even though logically he couldn't have
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Old 2011-06-05, 22:36   Link #763
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Except you're making that judgement before the thirty page chapter has even been translated.
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Old 2011-06-06, 01:15   Link #764
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i never liked david, he killed some guy who wanted to avoid a mass slaughter (at least on both sides) and after, his people were slaughtered :/ goliath was an honorable warrior

yay analogies
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Old 2011-06-06, 03:16   Link #765
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Except you're making that judgement before the thirty page chapter has even been translated.
You really don't need a translation to see this happening. Einhart is a more important character than Corona, translation or not we already know this. Even if you don't like meta reasoning, even Nove pinned Einhart higher than Corona a couple of chapters back.
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Old 2011-06-06, 03:32   Link #766
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That's what I'm saying. Just putting in-story logic like that second is pretty needless when it has a fairly decent justification.
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Old 2011-06-06, 04:04   Link #767
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I, ah- I'm confused on what you guys are supposed to be arguing
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Old 2011-06-06, 04:48   Link #768
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Me too, actually. I don't get what you're trying to say, Justin.
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Old 2011-06-06, 11:56   Link #769
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And Miura clearly pulled out something crazy on Micaiah. Pretty sure it's kind of like what happened with Fate vs. Nanoha, Fate, while more skilled, didn't see Nanoha's trump card coming her way, which kind of blasted her to pieces. Miura won because she had a big surprise that was crazy powerful. Makes me wonder how well any of her future battles will go, since part of it's effectiveness was likely it's surprise.

I'm just guessing though. Maybe it wasn't any sort of secret and Micaiah was just overly arrogant, thinking along the lines of how she has been in the tournament more compared to Miura. But just being in it more doesn't make her a superior fighter necessarily.

I don't see any reason why, logically, Miura winning and Corona losing can't be justified by in-story reasoning. It makes sense to me, at least, ignoring the other things going on.
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Old 2011-06-06, 12:03   Link #770
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If the updated info on the wikia is to be believed, Miura's finishing move is a "mana collector" spell like Stralight Breaker(but on a much smaller scale i guess), miura just change the application instead of a powerfull blast she focuses the enerngy on the magical blades on her legs to deal a devastating kick, at least that could explain why Miura deal damage to Micaiah equal to more than double of her original base Hit Points.
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:08   Link #771
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So to beat Miura, you need to finish her off fast before she reaches peak charge?

Interesting.
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:21   Link #772
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I'm sure she has other moves for more fast-paced situations but Micaiah agreed to have a duel of finishing moves with Miura allowing her to set up the attack and charge it xD.
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:40   Link #773
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I'm sure she has other moves for more fast-paced situations but Micaiah agreed to have a duel of finishing moves with Miura allowing her to set up the attack and charge it xD.
Which, if this is a non-elimination preliminary round, makes perfect sense. It gives Micaiah a chance to see what Miura has "up her sleeve," as it were, in case she has to face her later on in an elimination match. Now she definitely knows to avoid it like the plague.
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:48   Link #774
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Which, if this is a non-elimination preliminary round, makes perfect sense. It gives Micaiah a chance to see what Miura has "up her sleeve," as it were, in case she has to face her later on in an elimination match. Now she definitely knows to avoid it like the plague.
Of course, i doubt she wants to be kick-slashed again xD
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:48   Link #775
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Okay, basically, I'm annoyed that you guys keep using meta reasons first, like 'x will win because she's on the cover of the volume', and then bringing up the actual reason why they won second, like what actually goes on in the story is somehow less important. Every story might as well be the same if you're gonna do that.

(And yes I know I've done this for Force, but Vivid is way better about this in general.)
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Old 2011-06-06, 14:57   Link #776
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Okay, basically, I'm annoyed that you guys keep using meta reasons first, like 'x will win because she's on the cover of the volume', and then bringing up the actual reason why they won second, like what actually goes on in the story is somehow less important. Every story might as well be the same if you're gonna do that.

(And yes I know I've done this for Force, but Vivid is way better about this in general.)
Is it, though? Of course, ViVid is in a tournament fighting arc, so those kind of metastory-prescribed results are a little more blatantly obvious, but if everyone is talking about the metastory first off and only thinking of the "in-story" explanations later, doesn't that suggest that to this audience that the story's kind of failing to create the suspension of disbelief necessary for people to think that the resolution of conflicts does have to do with the "in-story" explanations? I mean, sure, metastory does pretty much describe why everything happens in fiction, but it's the job of the writer to involve us in the story enough not to be constantly thinking about that.
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Old 2011-06-06, 15:00   Link #777
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To be fair, i really end up surprised by Miura winning her match, while she's a "heroine" she isn't part of the main girl ensemble(Vivio, Corona, Rio and Einhart), thus being only a support character. With all the foreshadowing of Micaiah's status as a very powerfull contender and Miura being trained by the Wolkenritter but also being still an unexperinced non-protagonist girl, that make me think of the plausibility of Miura losing to Micaiah to show how strong she while showing Miura's potential by giving her a "good battle". The Main focus is on Viovio and Einhart so i see Miura as a disposable hero for the job.

Einhart's case is different because what happens to her will have a direct impact on the story y don't expect her to lose until she faces with some important character and her defeat will be taken as a challenge for the other girls. Probably is a meta example but i think her victory over corona is a given because of those reasons. But being a lighthearted manga about effort and friendship i don't expect any kind of curbstomp battle, probably wuill be a hard fight where Corona will manage to show how strong she has become but then einhart will discover a weak point in her strategy to take advantage and after the fight corona and einhart will promise to keep working togheter to become stronger, or something like that.
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Old 2011-06-06, 15:09   Link #778
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There were too many flags to indicate a Miura win. Maybe it was just my passive literature senses tingling, but damn... I kinda saw the outcome coming.

"I can see the ending!"

That said, I'm enjoying Vivid for all the clichés it's embracing. Tropes can be very entertaining when they're not taken too seriously.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-06-06, 15:52   Link #779
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
If the updated info on the wikia is to be believed, Miura's finishing move is a "mana collector" spell like Stralight Breaker(but on a much smaller scale i guess), miura just change the application instead of a powerfull blast she focuses the enerngy on the magical blades on her legs to deal a devastating kick, at least that could explain why Miura deal damage to Micaiah equal to more than double of her original base Hit Points.
This is also something we'll have to keep in mind...that they're fighting with Hit Points on them.
So no "miracle revive" triggered by an epiphany after being knocked out

Though...how does it work for Corona? Does her HP get a percentage loss for the damage her golem takes?
Probably not...
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Old 2011-06-06, 16:05   Link #780
Akiyoshi
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Though...how does it work for Corona? Does her HP get a percentage loss for the damage her golem takes?
Probably not...
Probably she needs to invest her own Hit Points to cast the golem? Kind of like the "Substitute" move on the Pokemon games xD!
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