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Old 2011-06-09, 18:19   Link #1261
Hiro Hayase
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So I've finally settled down and finished volume 6... Hmmm... How should I put this...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



1. Kinji - So I was right; every volume Kinji and Aria gets into some kind of argument and falling out, it's like their relationship never gets anywhere- It's kind of hard for me to take any of their previous heart-warming moments seriously anymore because it doesn't go anywhere. Aria's too prone to misunderstandings and Kinji occasionally has his fit of PMS. I've complained before that his monologues are just so... Frustrating [/polite]. I went back to check some of the comments of the people defending Kinji saying he had a crappy day and everything, but that's not the excuse he gave right? No, the excuse he gave was because he doesn't want to have any more memories of Aria.

That's nothing more than a selfish excuse for himself not to get hurt, using Aria only as a justification for himself.

??????: “You are the only one that can fully understand what you are hiding. She is the only one that can judge how she feels about those things. You seem to have been protecting her from it for your own satisfaction, but I look forward to seeing whether she judges that to have been a good thing or not.”





2. Reki - It's always good to have someone tell Kinji outright that girls are attracted to him and that his perception of reality, is but an illusion. Even if Kinji doesn't get it, at least someone had said it to his face nice and clear. Now, on to the not so nice part; It's all fun and games until someone pulls out a bayonet, at that point warning bells started ringing in my head. She was absolutely serious about killing Aria, she was willing to turn on her friend, or at least someone who had treated her like a friend, she could just as easily turned on anybody as long as the [wind] orders her to.


3. Jeanne - I think she's the best character this volume. The one person that has her head straight and her act together. It's a shame that she's not part of the harem... No scratch that, it's because she's not part of the harem that's what makes her more desirable. Plus she's one of the few girls that doesn't fumble around and can have a clear and misunderstanding free conversation with Kinji.
Since not many people are responding to Kinji and Reki's, I guess I'll play the devil's advocate.

On Kinji: Well just think about it from Kinji's shoes. He's being pushed around by all these fierce girls and so his stress levels would build up eventually. Aria isn't blameless either, seeing as she's the descendent of Sherlock, those numerous misunderstandings are getting annoying after a few volumes. Kinji is a misogynist, plus his experiences in middle school when he was dealing with girls gave him a bit of a trauma. So Kinji naturally doesn't wish to go into HSS anymore and moreover doesn't want girls taking advantage of him again, therefore he keeps HSS a secret from most of the girls.

It seems to me that Kinji's frustrations arise from his inferiority towards HSS Kinji. Most of his friends and comrades-in-arms look up to HSS Kinji, while most people usually never acknowledge the normal Kinji, with the of exception Reki. Perhaps, the expectations that people have for Kinji is weighing down on him so harshly that he became indifferent and stopped desiring to become an 'ally of justice' anymore.

Although, Kinji's goal is to transfer to normal high school and live an ordinary life, Kinji hasn't thought that far ahead about what he's doing afterwards. Well Reki will just end up following him anyways lol.

Yes, that is the basic formula in almost every novel, Kinji and Aria have a fallout, then an enemy attacks them. This must be a sign that Kinji and Aria just aren't meant to be together lol. Your frustration with Kinji will be alleviated with volume 7 hopefully.


On Reki: If you read volume 7 after its translated, then you will understand Reki's character and intentions more. Reki's body may be that of teenager, but her mind is that of a child's, you can't blame her for that. She does have a bit of individuality though, Reki stated in the epilogue of volume 6 that she was truthfully very glad to be engaged with Kinji, enjoyed shopping and having fun with him. She confessed a bit of her feelings there. After hanging out with Kinji, 'emotions' started blossoming inside Reki.

On Jeanne: Although Jeanne doesn't dislike Kinji, there were a few blushing and awkward scenes between the two. She also wears a maid outfit in volume 8, you can see it in the illustrations I think. Well the light novels haven't fully revealed Jeanne's background story that much, so its too early to say. The reason why I like Jeanne is because she's so blunt and truthful lol. It really doesn't matter to me if she's part of the harem or not, she will still be Jeanne. You people are over thinking this.


P.S. If there is one thing that I learned from HnA, it is to never judge a character prematurely. The characters have their reasons for behaving the way they do, including the villains/enemies. For example, I completely misjudged Riko's character before hearing her background story and what she's been though. There's always two sides to a story.

P.S.S. Don't post flamebaits. You know better.

P.S.S.S. That was tiring to write. Small posts are nice.

Last edited by Hiro Hayase; 2011-06-09 at 18:38.
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Old 2011-06-09, 19:20   Link #1262
ZeKeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Since not many people are responding to Kinji and Reki's, I guess I'll play the devil's advocate.

On Kinji: Well just think about it from Kinji's shoes. He's being pushed around by all these fierce girls and so his stress levels would build up eventually. Aria isn't blameless either, seeing as she's the descendent of Sherlock, those numerous misunderstandings are getting annoying after a few volumes. Kinji is a misogynist, plus his experiences in middle school when he was dealing with girls gave him a bit of a trauma. So Kinji naturally doesn't wish to go into HSS anymore and moreover doesn't want girls taking advantage of him again, therefore he keeps HSS a secret from most of the girls.

It seems to me that Kinji's frustrations arise from his inferiority towards HSS Kinji. Most of his friends and comrades-in-arms look up to HSS Kinji, while most people usually never acknowledge the normal Kinji, with the of exception Reki. Perhaps, the expectations that people have for Kinji is weighing down on him so harshly that he became indifferent and stopped desiring to become an 'ally of justice' anymore.

Although, Kinji's goal is to transfer to normal high school and live an ordinary life, Kinji hasn't thought that far ahead about what he's doing afterwards. Well Reki will just end up following him anyways lol.

Yes, that is the basic formula in almost every novel, Kinji and Aria have a fallout, then an enemy attacks them. This must be a sign that Kinji and Aria just aren't meant to be together lol. Your frustration with Kinji will be alleviated with volume 7 hopefully.


On Reki: If you read volume 7 after its translated, then you will understand Reki's character and intentions more. Reki's body may be that of teenager, but her mind is that of a child's, you can't blame her for that. She does have a bit of individuality though, Reki stated in the epilogue of volume 6 that she was truthfully very glad to be engaged with Kinji, enjoyed shopping and having fun with him. She confessed a bit of her feelings there. After hanging out with Kinji, 'emotions' started blossoming inside Reki.

On Jeanne: Although Jeanne doesn't dislike Kinji, there were a few blushing and awkward scenes between the two. She also wears a maid outfit in volume 8, you can see it in the illustrations I think. Well the light novels haven't fully revealed Jeanne's background story that much, so its too early to say. The reason why I like Jeanne is because she's so blunt and truthful lol. It really doesn't matter to me if she's part of the harem or not, she will still be Jeanne. You people are over thinking this.


P.S. If there is one thing that I learned from HnA, it is to never judge a character prematurely. The characters have their reasons for behaving the way they do, including the villains/enemies. For example, I completely misjudged Riko's character before hearing her background story and what she's been though. There's always two sides to a story.

P.S.S. Don't post flamebaits. You know better.

P.S.S.S. That was tiring to write. Small posts are nice.
TRUTH. you cant blame kinji for it all tho, since he's trying so hard to avert from women but strangely, the women are domineering and coming for him. maybe this is the charisma that a teacher of his assessed him with, given the fact that right now he has just TWO male friends and lets see, umm... EIGHT girls.. inb4 shiranui turns into the dark side and reveals he be into homo
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Old 2011-06-09, 20:25   Link #1263
Chaos2Frozen
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Flamebait? Oh nonono, I simply wanted to learn if I've been missing out on something regarding my analysis on Kinji and Reki, it never hurts to learn


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Since not many people are responding to Kinji and Reki's, I guess I'll play the devil's advocate.

On Kinji: Well just think about it from Kinji's shoes. He's being pushed around by all these fierce girls and so his stress levels would build up eventually. Aria isn't blameless either, seeing as she's the descendent of Sherlock, those numerous misunderstandings are getting annoying after a few volumes. Kinji is a misogynist, plus his experiences in middle school when he was dealing with girls gave him a bit of a trauma. So Kinji naturally doesn't wish to go into HSS anymore and moreover doesn't want girls taking advantage of him again, therefore he keeps HSS a secret from most of the girls.

It seems to me that Kinji's frustrations arise from his inferiority towards HSS Kinji. Most of his friends and comrades-in-arms look up to HSS Kinji, while most people usually never acknowledge the normal Kinji, with the of exception Reki. Perhaps, the expectations that people have for Kinji is weighing down on him so harshly that he became indifferent and stopped desiring to become an 'ally of justice' anymore.

Although, Kinji's goal is to transfer to normal high school and live an ordinary life, Kinji hasn't thought that far ahead about what he's doing afterwards. Well Reki will just end up following him anyways lol.
Yes I've heard all this already; but that's not the issue- Kinji didn't lash out in frustration and spite in a moment of impulse; he did it with a purpose in mind- he wanted in inflict pain to Aria to push her away- Sounds dramatic? Maybe, but Kinji said those things to Aria because he's trying to break contact with her, to avoid having anymore memories of her and justified it by saying that he's doing this for her sake.

And this is not the first time Kinji intentionally struck back at Aria, he's been hitting her below the belt since vol 1 and vol 2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Yes, that is the basic formula in almost every novel, Kinji and Aria have a fallout, then an enemy attacks them. This must be a sign that Kinji and Aria just aren't meant to be together lol. Your frustration with Kinji will be alleviated with volume 7 hopefully.
It was supposed to have been alleviated back vol 5 =_=

The problem this time is after all that crap of putting his life on the line to save Aria from EU, and even before that when he could have let her go after the plan hijacking scene, he just decided that he doesn't want to be with her?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
On Reki: If you read volume 7 after its translated, then you will understand Reki's character and intentions more. Reki's body may be that of teenager, but her mind is that of a child's, you can't blame her for that. She does have a bit of individuality though, Reki stated in the epilogue of volume 6 that she was truthfully very glad to be engaged with Kinji, enjoyed shopping and having fun with him. She confessed a bit of her feelings there. After hanging out with Kinji, 'emotions' started blossoming inside Reki.
I have no doubt that Reki has feelings and emotions, but I'm pointing out that she was willing to kill a friend, or at least someone who views her as a friend, because the [Wind] ordered her to. It could just as easily had been Kinji on the chopping board, even if she likes him, her emotions takes second place to the [Wind].


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
P.S. If there is one thing that I learned from HnA, it is to never judge a character prematurely. The characters have their reasons for behaving the way they do, including the villains/enemies. For example, I completely misjudged Riko's character before hearing her background story and what she's been though. There's always two sides to a story.
I'm willing to let Reki explain herself, this being her story arc after all, but I can't look past how easily she could turn on a friend, or at least someone who had considered her a friend.

Kinji on the other hand, I had given him six volumes already; he had two chances to let Aria go, and now that he's got her back, he suddenly doesn't want her? Talk about a heartbreaker and woman player.
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Old 2011-06-09, 21:14   Link #1264
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post

Yes I've heard all this already; but that's not the issue- Kinji didn't lash out in frustration and spite in a moment of impulse; he did it with a purpose in mind- he wanted in inflict pain to Aria to push her away- Sounds dramatic? Maybe, but Kinji said those things to Aria because he's trying to break contact with her, to avoid having anymore memories of her and justified it by saying that he's doing this for her sake.

And this is not the first time Kinji intentionally struck back at Aria, he's been hitting her below the belt since vol 1 and vol 2.
Isn't it because the super idiot already knows the ending. And it's a bad ending. The relationship of those 2 will end by the current school year. Aria will go back to London and Kinji will quit being a butei and the super idiot is dead set on quitting. Aria even ask Kinji that he could come with her to London but the super^100000000 idiot said he will still quit ( pressing my index finger on my forehead) his dead set on it that he even ignore his feelings or does he even have feelings for Aria? there are hints but still no improvement. (pressing my finger now hard on my temple ....<.< )

I like his interaction more with the none harem girls than with the harem girls. His more friendly with Jeanne that's why she's the best second is Reki. Despite being a part of his harem. Kinji treasures that girl like she's a national treasure because she doesn't give him much trouble except for a 24/7 sniping problem super stalker.

Riko I think could be the best for him. If she is more honest about her feelings. I just like her the best!!!! Normal Riko is the best . Flirtatious Riko is the best playmate and Hysteria Riko is your doomsday Though I think a dere Riko will meltdown even an idiot
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Old 2011-06-09, 21:26   Link #1265
Hiro Hayase
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Flamebait? Oh nonono, I simply wanted to learn if I've been missing out on something regarding my analysis on Kinji and Reki, it never hurts to learn
It must have been my misunderstanding then. Although that line of yours "Where are all the indignant fans" seemed to have been like an invitation for flaming, but it looks like you edited it out. That's good.


Quote:
Yes I've heard all this already; but that's not the issue- Kinji didn't lash out in frustration and spite in a moment of impulse; he did it with a purpose in mind- he wanted in inflict pain to Aria to push her away- Sounds dramatic? Maybe, but Kinji said those things to Aria because he's trying to break contact with her, to avoid having anymore memories of her and justified it by saying that he's doing this for her sake.

And this is not the first time Kinji intentionally struck back at Aria, he's been hitting her below the belt since vol 1 and vol 2.
If I was in Kinji's position and a bossy girl like Aria started controlling my life and randomly firing her guns on me, I would hold a small grudge against her. Although its very spiteful of me to do so, I would take every opportunity that's presented to me to extract a bit of revenge on the said person.

Whenever Kinji and Aria get into an argument, Kinji always starts remembering the times when Aria wronged and becomes even more enraged, it eventually reaches a boiling point and the fallout happens.


Quote:
It was supposed to have been alleviated back vol 5 =_=

The problem this time is after all that crap of putting his life on the line to save Aria from EU, and even before that when he could have let her go after the plan hijacking scene, he just decided that he doesn't want to be with her?!
Kinji is probably denying his feelings, its hinted in the light novel that he has feelings for Aria to a degree. Perhaps, for Kinji it is easier to forget Aria's existence than saying goodbye. It's almost like Kinji and Aria are like Tsundere's lol.

Quote:
I have no doubt that Reki has feelings and emotions, but I'm pointing out that she was willing to kill a friend, or at least someone who views her as a friend, because the [Wind] ordered her to. It could just as easily had been Kinji on the chopping board, even if she likes him, her emotions takes second place to the [Wind].
Reki would probably hesitate if she was ordered to kill Kinji, since he's the first one who opened her heart. Furthermore, she already sworn fealty to him, so its highly unlikely now. The [Wind] is actually the Azure Irokane. Btw your assessment of Reki is almost the same as Kinji's!

Reki has already killed people before, she doesn't understand what's right from wrong yet. Her emotions and character development is only just beginning.

Quote:
I'm willing to let Reki explain herself, this being her story arc after all, but I can't look past how easily she could turn on a friend, or at least someone who had considered her a friend.

Kinji on the other hand, I had given him six volumes already; he had two chances to let Aria go, and now that he's got her back, he suddenly doesn't want her? Talk about a heartbreaker and woman player.
Umm, didn't you already complain about Kinji twice in your above sentences...? Either Kinji's being tsun about Aria, or he's just reverting back to his former cold character. Before Aria showed up, Kinji was a cold and loner type of character, who seldom opened his heart to anyone, including his fellow butei.

That fallout situation could have easily been avoided, if Aria wasn't as prideful and more honest about her feelings. Although Kinji is stubborn too, but you can't blame it all on him. If he goes with Aria, then his goal of a normal life would be annulled permanently. Majority of people would hate having guns or swords pointed to their throats on daily basis, so I can't blame Kinji if he wants to stay where he is lol. Besides Kinji can't speak English, so how is he supposed to go with Aria? Aria speaks about 14 different languages.

People can't change that easily.



P.S. It's nice seeing an opposing viewpoint every once in awhile.

Last edited by Hiro Hayase; 2011-06-09 at 21:41.
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Old 2011-06-09, 21:35   Link #1266
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Isn't it because the super idiot already knows the ending. And it's a bad ending. The relationship of those 2 will end by the current school year. Aria will go back to London and Kinji will quit being a butei and the super idiot is dead set on quitting. Aria even ask Kinji that he could come with her to London but the super^100000000 idiot said he will still quit ( pressing my index finger on my forehead) his dead set on it that he even ignore his feelings or does he even have feelings for Aria? there are hints but still no improvement. (pressing my finger now hard on my temple ....<.< )
He had two chances to let her go, first time was after the plane hijack, I didn't read that volume but the gist is that he still decided to be her partner- That was his choice, nobody forced him. Later in Vol 4 after they went on a date, he told Aria that even though he would leave next year-

Quote:
"Your mission must be resolved completely.'Before April of next year, I am still a Butei...and before that, I cannot go against any articles of Butei Law. And also, as a person, I cannot go against my own word. So until we completely resolve the matter with EU, I will always remain by your side."
And then onboard the Vostok, when he uttered those sweet words to Aria, making her forsake her Great grandfather for him...

BUT NOW, THAT PUNK- !!

Quote:
"Aria. So what if I'm in a team with you? That kind of team, about to split and part their own ways, is meaningless."

You are going to disappear. From my side.

Since that is the case, do not try to leave any lingering memories.

"It doesn't really matter, does it? Fighting together with you was a thing of the past. Now--"

Would he freaking make up his mind?! Is this how he's going to be everytime he gets into a stressful situation?! How many times is he going to play with her?!
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Old 2011-06-09, 21:46   Link #1267
mysterious
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post

I have no doubt that Reki has feelings and emotions, but I'm pointing out that she was willing to kill a friend, or at least someone who views her as a friend, because the [Wind] ordered her to. It could just as easily had been Kinji on the chopping board, even if she likes him, her emotions takes second place to the [Wind].
Like the others have said, he is her husband now, ok it is not like he has a choice but still...


Quote:
I'm willing to let Reki explain herself, this being her story arc after all, but I can't look past how easily she could turn on a friend, or at least someone who had considered her a friend.
From what I see so far, there isnt any hint in the novel to suggest that Reki sees Aria as a friend. So I dont see any problem with Reki goes for the kill when Aria strikes her first (if I am not mistake). Also, the novel suggests that she has killed before over sea. Furthermore, when they fought Patra, Reki did not hesitate to shoot through her head (I dont think the novel says whether Reki knows that is a clone or not), and she also asked if she could shoot to kill Cao Cao when they fought in the woods. So I dont think Reki gives a damn about the "not kill" part of the butei law and just retaliated with full force to annihilate the enemy as efficient as possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
second is Reki. Despite being a part of his harem. Kinji treasures that girl like she's a national treasure because she doesn't give him much trouble except for a 24/7 sniping problem super stalker.
I beg to differ. Even Kinji said that she is the most dangerous girl to him in both hysteria and normal mode due to her snipping skill and her indifference of showing her naked body or panty or that smooth white shoulder or...Heck, she is the first one to suggest having children with him (Shirayuki's notes dont count ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post

And then onboard the Vostok, when he uttered those sweet words to Aria, making her forsake her Great grandfather for him...

BUT NOW, THAT PUNK- !!
Didnt he say it in the special hysteria mode? does that even count as his true feeling?
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:03   Link #1268
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
If I was in Kinji's position and bossy girl like Aria started controlling my life and randomly firing her guns on me, I would hold a small grudge against her. Although its very spiteful of me to do so, I would take every opportunity that's presented to me to extract a bit of revenge on the said person.

Whenever Kinji and Aria get into an argument, Kinji always starts remembering the times when Aria wronged and becomes even more enraged, it eventually reaches a boiling point and the fallout happens.
That argument would have worked in the first volume, but I've pointed out that Kinji choose to be Aria's partner, he couldn't let her go; and now he's complaining?

His whole life story thus far seems to be grudgingly living out a life full of regrets then- regret becoming a butei, regret becoming Aria's partner etc.

Now I can understand being pissed at someone for being bossy, we've all been there; You called them an idiot, you put salt in her coffee, switch out her peach buns for melon bread! You don't just crank the dial up to 11 then to hit them when they're already feeling down!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Kinji is probably denying his feelings, its hinted in the light novel that he has feelings for Aria to a degree. Perhaps, for Kinji it is easier to forget Aria's existence than saying goodbye. It's almost like Kinji and Aria are like Tsundere's lol.
No, they're what I would call the double Tsundere act

Yes, it's beyond obvious that Kinji has feelings for Aria; all the instant HSS mode gave that away But like I've said, Kinji's only cares that he himself doesn't get hurt from Aria leaving him, that little punk doesn't care if Aria gets hurt from his actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post

Reki would probably hesitate if she was ordered to kill Kinji, since he's the first one who opened her heart. Furthermore, she already sworn fealty to him, so its highly unlikely now. The [Wind] is actually the Azure Irokane. Btw your assessment of Reki is almost the same as Kinji's!
It still doesn't change that it could just as easily had been Kinji or some other person that considered her their friend. It was mentioned before in the volume that Aria and Reki got along well, and that she was one of Aria's few friends. I don't know how Reki truly feels about Aria, but I wouldn't trust her so readily.


Are they the same How so?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Umm, didn't you already complain about Kinji twice in your above sentences...? Either Kinji's being tsun about Aria, or he's just reverting back to his former cold character. Before Aria showed up, Kinji was a cold and loner type of character, who seldom opened his heart to anyone, including his fellow butei.

That fallout situation could have easily been avoided, if Aria wasn't as prideful and more honest about her feelings. Although Kinji is stubborn too, but you can't blame it all on him. If he goes with Aria, then his goal of a normal life would be annulled permanently. Majority of people would hate having guns or swords pointed to their throats on daily basis, so I can't blame Kinji if he wants to stay where he is lol. Besides Kinji can't speak English, so how is he supposed to go with Aria? Aria speaks about 14 different languages.

People can't change that easily.
Actually, I've could have sworn I've been repeating my argument eight times already So I don't think you want to hear it all again But the gist is this; I agree that both Aria and Kinji were at fault, I've also accept Kinji's decision to leave Butei high as well as his decision not to follow Aria, and Aria in turn had also made that decision to leave for England.

But what I can't stand is Kinji throwing away the words he had said to her, all those sweet promises he had made, because he was afraid of getting hurt?

That don't make no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
P.S. It's nice seeing an opposing viewpoint every once and in awhile.
Well, I feel REALLY STRONGLY about this
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:16   Link #1269
Chaos2Frozen
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Like the others have said, he is her husband now, ok it is not like he has a choice but still...
Yes I've got that already But at that point, hypothetically speaking, had the [Wind]'s orders were to kill him, or anyone of her friends, or at least people who had treated her like their friends, she would have done it right?


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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
From what I see so far, there isnt any hint in the novel to suggest that Reki sees Aria as a friend. So I dont see any problem with Reki goes for the kill when Aria strikes her first (if I am not mistake). Also, the novel suggests that she has killed before over sea. Furthermore, when they fought Patra, Reki did not hesitate to shoot through her head (I dont think the novel says whether Reki knows that is a clone or not), and she also asked if she could shoot to kill Cao Cao when they fought in the woods. So I dont think Reki gives a damn about the "not kill" part of the butei law and just retaliated with full force to annihilate the enemy as efficient as possible.
Hell, even I don't give a damn about the "not kill" part But it says alot about the person if he or she is willing to turn on someone that had treated him/her well. And yes, I know, her emotions and thinkings isn't developed, but that also makes her even more dangerous and unpredictable.

And no, even when Aria hit her first, that was a legal fight- plus it was unarmed, Aria didn't expect Reki to not defend herself and she certainly wasn't going to kill her. But in response, Reki pulls out a bayonet and tried to take Aria's head off

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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
Didnt he say it in the special hysteria mode? does that even count as his true feeling?
His true feelings is that he went against his brother, crossed an Ocean, and fought Sherlock Holmes, and even willing to die to bring her back.

Whether his words were under the influence... Doesn't matter, even if he had used less flowery words, it would mean the same thing.
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:17   Link #1270
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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post



Reki would probably hesitate if she was ordered to kill Kinji, since he's the first one who opened her heart. Furthermore, she already sworn fealty to him, so its highly unlikely now. The [Wind] is actually the Azure Irokane. Btw your assessment of Reki is almost the same as Kinji's!
That's why it seems to me that the ririirokane and perhaps irokane in general are a taint. I mean they aren't inherently evil and all being just mystic metal of unknown origin but their effects are like plutonium and ionizing radiation.
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:24   Link #1271
Glacierfairy
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Hi! I'm a newcomer in this forum and a new reader of this series and I must say I'm hooked. There may be nothing original plot-wise or character-wise, but this particular combination just interests me immensely. So I'd like to offer my gratitude here for the translators in Baka-Tsuki for translating this series. Thank you very much!

And now, I'd like to contribute my pet theories and interpretations regarding some of events in the novels.

First, regarding the issue of the name of Koko/Cao Cao, it was mentioned by the author that the former was supposed to be the original pronunciation of 曹操 back in the times of the Three Kingdoms (3rd century AD). Based on what I can gather about historical Chinese (shamelessly ripped off from Wikipedia ) and my meagre knowledge on linguistics, there is some basis to the author's assertion. However, that is only because some of the j/q sounds in Mandarin Chinese are descended from g/k and z/c sounds in pinyin. In other words, the "k" in Koko and the "c" in Cao Cao are related, but not because the former gave rise to the latter. And considering how both the "k" and "c" exist in Old Chinese (according to the consensus anyway), it is unlikely that the author's assertion is correct in this case, which is a shame.

Second, regarding the questions on why Reki uses a Dragunov SVD instead of a more effective bolt-action rifle such as the Remington 700 that Koko uses, I'd like to offer a theory. Perhaps Reki is interested in the versatility the Dragunov offers. Strictly speaking, the Dragunov was not designed purely for sniping purposes but is rather meant for designated marksmen. That is why it is gas-operated unlike the more conventional bolt-action for sniper rifles (which meant that Reki can fire more rapidly, since she does not need to manually pull back the bolt after each shot). That is also why it can be equipped with a bayonet, which is again unusual for conventional sniper rifles. Considering how Reki's bayonet became a plot point in the novels, I guess the author assigned that weapon to her on purpose. The only thing that boggles me is her ability to shoot 2 km with her Dragunov, since it was supposed to have only a maximum range of up to 1.3 km. Maybe her Dragunov was a modified one?

Finally, I have a question for the translators. Back in Volume 5 when Sherlock Holmes mentioned about the "Scarlet Research", I wonder whether is it written as 緋色の研究 in the original Japanese? Because if that is so, then it will be a direct reference to the title of the first Sherlock Holmes novel A Study in Scarlet which I believe is translated into Japanese as 緋色の研究.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-06-09 at 23:38.
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:34   Link #1272
mysterious
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post


Hell, even I don't give a damn about the "not kill" part But it says alot about the person if he or she is willing to turn on someone that had treated him/her well. And yes, I know, her emotions and thinkings isn't developed, but that also makes her even more dangerous and unpredictable.
The novel may said that Aria gets along well with Reki but we dont know about how Reki feels about Aria. . Well if it was me, and I didnt want to make friend then I would just tell that person to go away, but this is Reki we are talking about. From the way she communicates with Kinji, I can just picture Aria all cheerfully talks to Reki and Reki replies in a monotone voice without any feeling whatsoever like a robot (pun intend). I mean, Reki may just saw Aria as a client, nothing more nothing less. So I dont see any problem if she goes for the kill when they have conflict. It is not like Reki tries to get close to Aria to get benefits and then turns on her.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That's why it seems to me that the ririirokane and perhaps irokane in general are a taint. I mean they aren't inherently evil and all being just mystic metal of unknown origin but their effects are like plutonium and ionizing radiation.
So the irokane that Shirayuki possess is yandereirokane? and Tsudereirokane for Aria just for shit and gigle
Seriously though, has they mentioned the name of the irokane of the Hotogi? I dont remember seeing it.
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:53   Link #1273
Chaos2Frozen
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The novel may said that Aria gets along well with Reki but we dont know about how Reki feels about Aria. . Well if it was me, and I didnt want to make friend then I would just tell that person to go away, but this is Reki we are talking about. From the way she communicates with Kinji, I can just picture Aria all cheerfully talks to Reki and Reki replies in a monotone voice without any feeling whatsoever like a robot (pun intend). I mean, Reki may just saw Aria as a client, nothing more nothing less. So I dont see any problem if she goes for the kill when they have conflict. It is not like Reki tries to get close to Aria to get benefits and then turns on her.
Two things; one- the 'I've never considered you as my friend' is a poor justification. If Aria treated her well, and she can still turn on her, then what's the difference from how Kinji treats her well? Because he's a handsome boy? In fact, when has anybody not treat Reki well? Is she going to stab them too? The only difference is what the [Wind] tells her, and it just so happens Kinji got lucky but it could just as easily go sideways.

Secondly, that fight was supposed to be unarmed, Aria didn't fight with the intention to kill. It's like you're having a wrestle with your siblings on the bed and he sudden pulls out a shiv
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Old 2011-06-09, 23:19   Link #1274
Hiro Hayase
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That argument would have worked in the first volume, but I've pointed out that Kinji choose to be Aria's partner, he couldn't let her go; and now he's complaining?

His whole life story thus far seems to be grudgingly living out a life full of regrets then- regret becoming a butei, regret becoming Aria's partner etc.

Now I can understand being pissed at someone for being bossy, we've all been there; You called them an idiot, you put salt in her coffee, switch out her peach buns for melon bread! You don't just crank the dial up to 11 then to hit them when they're already feeling down!
The complex part about Kinji's character is that he wants to stay true to his promises towards other people, maybe its his stubborn or hardheadedness. He feels a sense of duty to keep promises. That may have been an understatement on my part, but Aria is way beyond the norms of being bossy, she's really animal-like and quick to draw her guns to silence any opposition. She never does the housework either lol, Kinji ends up doing it instead. Outside of combat, Aria is...uhh like a brat.

When your extremely angry at another person, you are not thinking at all. Anger is an emotion that just consumes you with rage, until you burn out. Majority of people who lash out at other people when angry are regretful when they calm down. That's basically what Kinji was.

Quote:
No, they're what I would call the double Tsundere act

Yes, it's beyond obvious that Kinji has feelings for Aria; all the instant HSS mode gave that away But like I've said, Kinji's only cares that he himself doesn't get hurt from Aria leaving him, that little punk doesn't care if Aria gets hurt from his actions.
During Kinji's voyage in the EU nuclear submarine, he was prioritizing defeating Sherlock Holmes and fulfilling his promise to finish this to his older brother Kinichi. Aria wasn't thinking clearly at time since she idolized Sherlock, her heart was in a turmoil. Kinji and Aria reconciled later, and they knew that the right path was to stop Sherlock as Butei's.

Kinji's promise to Aria to be partners was only valid until they defeated EU and freed Kanae-san (Aria's mother).

Quote:
It still doesn't change that it could just as easily had been Kinji or some other person that considered her their friend. It was mentioned before in the volume that Aria and Reki got along well, and that she was one of Aria's few friends. I don't know how Reki truly feels about Aria, but I wouldn't trust her so readily.

Are they the same How so?
I really don't think that Reki really considered Aria as a friend per say, more like a comrade-for-the-moment-soon-to-become-an-enemy. Reki only accepted missions under three conditions, one of those were if they involved Aria, Shirayuki, and or Kinji. Reki at the time did not have emotions, so how could she have a friend? Wouldn't you need emotions to consider someone a friend? I could imagine Reki being silent and nodding while Aria just continued talking for hours, Aria is socially inept at times. Aria could have easily misunderstood the silence as a sign of friendship, while in relaity Reki was just keeping tabs on her.

The [Wind] said to be on friendly terms with Kinji and produce offspring's. Reki did say that Kinji was stronger than her if he was serious, I do not doubt her intelligence since she's been stalking Kinji for over a year without Aria in the picture. Reki's liking for Kinji did not happen in a day.

Your assessment of Reki is very similar to Kinji's. Re-read volume 6, I'm sure you will find the similarity.

Quote:
Actually, I've could have sworn I've been repeating my argument eight times already So I don't think you want to hear it all again But the gist is this; I agree that both Aria and Kinji were at fault, I've also accept Kinji's decision to leave Butei high as well as his decision not to follow Aria, and Aria in turn had also made that decision to leave for England.

But what I can't stand is Kinji throwing away the words he had said to her, all those sweet promises he had made, because he was afraid of getting hurt?

That don't make no sense.
Usually Kinji never says sweet sugar-coated words to other girls, unless he's in HSS mode. Kinji isn't that heartless, if Aria's life was in danger he would help her out. Moreover, now that EU's leader Sherlock is gone, the majority of the remnants of the organization will most likely go after Kinji now. Since a faction of EU supported Aria as the next leader, she's in less of a dangerous position than Kinji.

You have very pro-Aria bias in your words and arguments, I see that your trying to be neutral, but its still present.


Quote:
Well, I feel REALLY STRONGLY about this
Ummm.... lol


@Cosmic Eagle I agree, the Irokane seem to have the power to taint people, its almost like they are the source of corruption and evil.

Last edited by Hiro Hayase; 2011-06-09 at 23:44.
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Old 2011-06-09, 23:20   Link #1275
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We do not know how Aria and Reki interact with each other. Saying Aria treats her well ot they go to shop, eat, play, is just a theory.

Aria thinks of Reki as a friend because her abilities are enough to isolate her. And Reki has abilities that match Aria so in that sense she feels close to Reki.

"The Wind" said Arias is danger for Kinji. What do you do in this case, you drive the danger away. If that isnt enough this means the problem has to be taken care. And for Reki it means a definitive end.

We do not know in which moment Reki felt close to Kinji but we do Know that this could have been before the novel started. Besides that a person treats you well doesnt mean I will love this person. Sometimes there are pheromones, Status and all kinds of stuff that causes chances for love to bloom.

Kinji hasnt broke any promise that he has made, (except in vol 2 when he was a jerk). Let me remind you a night before he was going to tell Aria about HSS before being interrupted by Reki. Kinji is afraid of a lot of things, and to just simply forget that fear isnt simple. since the beggining he said Until we end with EU and im going to transfer as soon as possible. He was in the verge of dead before.

In the train they dont talk about him they talk about Histeria Kinji. And he doesnt identify himself with his Histeria self.
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Old 2011-06-09, 23:45   Link #1276
mysterious
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Two things; one- the 'I've never considered you as my friend' is a poor justification. If Aria treated her well, and she can still turn on her, then what's the difference from how Kinji treats her well? Because he's a handsome boy? In fact, when has anybody not treat Reki well? Is she going to stab them too? The only difference is what the [Wind] tells her, and it just so happens Kinji got lucky but it could just as easily go sideways.
The novel said they get along well, but that is from the perspective of Aria and others only. Also, yes for normal people when someone treats them well, they would be either graciously accept it and thankful or they can decide to refuse the present and be on their way. The bad one will take the present and stab you in the back three times for good measure But we are talking about Reki here. First of all, she isnt normal The novel doesnt say that Reki approaches Aria to be friend. For all we know, it may just be Aria pushes for it by herself without thinking about Reki's feeling. Then again, Reki doesnt have any feeling so she may just considered Aria to be some kind of insects flying around and decides to leave it alone since it doesnt post any threat yet. Under the circumstances, I dont see why she has any obligation to treat Aria well though.

Quote:
Secondly, that fight was supposed to be unarmed, Aria didn't fight with the intention to kill. It's like you're having a wrestle with your siblings on the bed and he sudden pulls out a shiv
but Reki doesnt have any hand-to-hand combat training (I think), then what is she gonna do? dont use her bayonet and be a punching bag? If it was me, I would also ignore the school rule and use my best weapon to defend myself. Beside, it was Aria resorts to violence first, and in my opinion it doesnt matter if she intents to kill or not, one who decides to fight should prepare to be killed. If she doesnt want to be skewed by the bayonet, she should have continued to resolve the conflict with words and not violence every time things dont go her way
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Old 2011-06-10, 00:03   Link #1277
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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
During Kinji voyage in the EU nuclear submarine, he was prioritizing defeating Sherlock Holmes and fulfilling his promise to finish this to his older brother Kinichi. Aria wasn't thinking clearly at time since she idolized Sherlock, her heart was in a turmoil. Kinji and Aria reconciled later, and they knew that the right path was to stop Sherlock as Butei's.

Kinji's promise to Aria to be partners was only valid until they defeated EU and freed Kanae-san (Aria's mother).
Wait wait, this has nothing to do with my statement of "Kinji's only cares that he himself doesn't get hurt from Aria leaving him, that little punk doesn't care if Aria gets hurt from his actions."


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I really don't think that Reki really considered Aria as a friend per say, more like a comrade-for-the-moment-soon-to-become-an-enemy. Reki only accepted missions under three conditions, one of those were if they involved Aria, Shirayuki, and or Kinji. Reki at the time did not have emotions, so how could she have a friend? Wouldn't you need emotions to consider someone a friend? I could imagine Reki being silent and nodding while Aria just continued talking for hours, Aria is socially inept at times. Aria could have easily misunderstood the silence as a sign of friendship, while in relaity Reki was just keeping tabs on her.
Sigh, that's why I put in the effort to type that extra line of "Or at least someone that have treated her like a friend" every single time this topic comes up

Even if Reki never considers Aria as a friend, to point her weapon at her so easily at someone who had treated her kindly... I would be careful around her, treating her friendly won't promise you safety.


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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post

The [Wind] said to be on friendly terms with Kinji and produce offspring's. Reki did say that Kinji was stronger than her if he was serious, I do not doubt her intelligence since she's been stalking Kinji for over a year without Aria in the picture. Reki's liking for Kinji did not happen in a day.
Yes, but all that means is that Kinji was lucky; treating Reki nice does not ensure that she won't pull one at the back of your head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
Usually Kinji never says sweet sugar-coated words to other girls, unless he's in HSS mode. Kinji isn't that heartless, if Aria's life was in danger he would help her out. Moreover, now that EU's leader Sherlock is gone, the majority of the remnants of the organization will most likely go after Kinji now. Since a faction of EU supported Aria as the next leader, she's in less of a dangerous position than Kinji.
Since he's a tsundere, his actions hold more meaning than his words- [copy] he went against his brother, crossed an Ocean, and fought Sherlock Holmes, and even willing to die to bring her back. [/paste]

Point is- He had definitely said it, he had definitely promised to be her partner till the end of this year.

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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
You have very pro-Aria bias in your words and arguments, I see that your trying to be neutral, but its still present.

"W-W-W-W-W-What?! I don't c-c-c-care about Aria! Don't, don't say rubbish! I, I-I-I-I, don't care about something like Aria! T-T-T-The kind of things like Aria--it's simply wasting time! I didn't! I didn't even think about it! I've never looked forward to it, and never looked for it! I don't even look forward to it! Hontoni Hontoni Honto-!! "
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Old 2011-06-10, 00:07   Link #1278
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Glacierfairy View Post
Hi! I'm a newcomer in this forum and a new reader of this series and I must say I'm hooked. There may be nothing original plot-wise or character-wise, but this particular combination just interests me immensely. So I'd like to offer my gratitude here for the translators in Baka-Tsuki for translating this series. Thank you very much!

And now, I'd like to contribute my pet theories and interpretations regarding some of events in the novels.

First, regarding the issue of the name of Koko/Cao Cao, it was mentioned by the author that the former was supposed to be the original pronunciation of 曹操 back in the times of the Three Kingdoms (3rd century AD). Based on what I can gather about historical Chinese (shamelessly ripped off from Wikipedia ) and my meagre knowledge on linguistics, there is some basis to the author's assertion. However, that is only because some of the j/q sounds in Mandarin Chinese are descended from g/k and z/c sounds in pinyin. In other words, the "k" in Koko and the "c" in Cao Cao are related, but not because the former gave rise to the latter. And considering how both the "k" and "c" exist in Old Chinese (according to the consensus anyway), it is unlikely that the author's assertion is correct in this case, which is a shame.

Second, regarding the questions on why Reki uses a Dragunov SVD instead of a more effective bolt-action rifle such as the Remington 700 that Koko uses, I'd like to offer a theory. Perhaps Reki is interested in the versatility the Dragunov offers. Strictly speaking, the Dragunov was not designed purely for sniping purposes but is rather meant for designated marksmen. That is why it is gas-operated unlike the more conventional bolt-action for sniper rifles (which meant that Reki can fire more rapidly, since she does not need to manually pull back the bolt after each shot). That is also why it can be equipped with a bayonet, which is again unusual for conventional sniper rifles. Considering how Reki's bayonet became a plot point in the novels, I guess the author assigned that weapon to her on purpose. The only thing that boggles me is her ability to shoot 2 km with her Dragunov, since it was supposed to have only a maximum range of up to 1.3 km. Maybe her Dragunov was a modified one?

Finally, I have a question for the translators. Back in Volume 5 when Sherlock Holmes mentioned about the "Scarlet Research", I wonder whether is it written as 緋色の研究 in the original Japanese? Because if that is so, then it will be a direct reference to the title of the first Sherlock Holmes novel A Study in Scarlet which I believe is translated into Japanese as 緋色の研究.
I believe Reki uses Dragunov because her homeland is in Russia. Doesn't seem unlikely that all her people's weapons are Russian.
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Old 2011-06-10, 00:16   Link #1279
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but Reki doesnt have any hand-to-hand combat training (I think), then what is she gonna do? dont use her bayonet and be a punching bag? If it was me, I would also ignore the school rule and use my best weapon to defend myself. Beside, it was Aria resorts to violence first, and in my opinion it doesnt matter if she intents to kill or not, one who decides to fight should prepare to be killed. If she doesnt want to be skewed by the bayonet, she should have continued to resolve the conflict with words and not violence every time things dont go her way
Your argument is wrong on three counts.

1. Aria resorted to violence first? Reki was the one that slapped her.


2. And Reki could like- You know, DON'T FIGHT? Aria had no idea that she doesn't have any unarmed skills so after her first hit she completely stopped. Reki on the other hand decided to continue with a weapon.

Quote:
She couldn't bring herself to let the blow fall. Reki was too weak. No, that was not the only reason. Aria doesn't wish to hit Reki. Because, she has always recognized Reki as her friend.
So your excuse that Reki should not be a punching bag is false because she was in no danger of that.

3. And the one who decides to fight should be prepared to be kill? By your logic siblings fights should end in blood? Friends must settle their conflicts with a pistol and ten paces? Everything is situational, not every fight, especially unarmed, is a fight to the finish.


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Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
Kinji hasnt broke any promise that he has made, (except in vol 2 when he was a jerk). Let me remind you a night before he was going to tell Aria about HSS before being interrupted by Reki. Kinji is afraid of a lot of things, and to just simply forget that fear isnt simple. since the beggining he said Until we end with EU and im going to transfer as soon as possible. He was in the verge of dead before.
Then let me remind you in vol 4 when he had promised to remain as Aria's partner till the end of his time (In Butei). Suddenly, because Aria is leaving for England, he doesn't want to have any more memories with her?
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Old 2011-06-10, 00:34   Link #1280
mysterious
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Your argument is wrong on three counts.

1. Aria resorted to violence first? Reki was the one that slapped her.
Well, it is Aria who closes the distance with Kinji hostilely such that Kinji prepares to be hit so Reki steps in to protect him. But well ok, technically Reki deals the first blow.
Quote:
2. And Reki could like- You know, DON'T FIGHT? Aria had no idea that she doesn't have any unarmed skills so after her first hit she completely stopped. Reki on the other hand decided to continue with a weapon.
Well, that line of thinking is made by Kinji assertion, but in that situation how would Reki knows what Aria thinking. No way she gonna keeps lying down there and asks Aria "so are you going to continue to hit me or not?" Also you know, Aria could be less of a spoiled brat that trigger happy every time she is pissed, and talks it out like the noble that she is supposed to be.

Quote:
3. And the one who decides to fight should be prepared to be kill? By your logic siblings fights should end in blood? Friends must settle their conflicts with a pistol and ten paces? Everything is situational, not every fight, especially unarmed, is a fight to the finish.
It is my personal opinion that once you decide to attack someone, be prepared for whatever they throw back at you. It is not like I gonna killed anyone that attack me, but I have no complain to anyone that decide to do that. Obviously, there is also the matter of law in real life, but this is fiction so yeah.
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