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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 51 57.95%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 28.41%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 9.09%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 2.27%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.14%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.14%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-06-16, 02:26   Link #141
garbage
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wow great episode..

in the end it was tohru with minchi that was there for her...
so what to make of that...guess it would be tohru at the end or none at all

what the hell, satsuki doing fake reviews, and concerning her family's inn too. well i guess she really needs the money. one needs to eat before they can have pride. but that's real dirty coming from the hotel developer, but this really happens in real life. a lot of times people with wads of cash think they can buy anything, and just trash anyone...hmp.

on the other hand, there seems to be that other reviewer from last episode. like it was hinted. so there might be hope for kissuiso on the business side. she might even be from a more reputable magazine.
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Old 2011-06-16, 10:40   Link #142
Riou17
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I guess it's just not her day when she went to Tokyo. First the review, then her mom and last is Koichi. Oh, she almost got harassed and then run into a pole and got soak also.

I know her mom is not that good as a parent since she treats Ohana as a friend-child rather than daughter-child. Also writing a fake article because the higher-ups said so is not that uncommon and it looks like she's been doing it to raise Ohana. So I can't really say that I hate or love her.

About Ko-chan...why can't Ohana just answer him? It's obvious that she likes him back but she won't tell him. Is she going to base her decision on whether to tell him or not on what megane-girl's going to tell her? I really wish that Ohana ends up with Ko-chan.

Anyway, this episode made me cry because of Ohana, and this is one of the most realistic episode I've watched so far. I love this series!
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Old 2011-06-16, 11:05   Link #143
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I don't think Ko was being indirect all all this episode. Ohana is the one who ran away from him. He ran after her when she left the bookstore. I think Ohana might be fearful that if she opens that part of herself to him, she might end up mucking it up in some way. Keep in mind, Ohana has never seen a healthy relationship work outside her and Ko. It was very telling that it was his name she called out in the end for help. Personally, I like Ko and would like to see more of him. He is very kind and truly cares for Ohana. Normally Ohana gets on my nerves but in this episode she was absolutely wonderful and so tormented. I look forward to next week's episode.
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Old 2011-06-16, 12:05   Link #144
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This is a tangental philosophical point, but I disagree with the implicit argument made by some other posters here that being an adult means calmly accepting injustice, or rejecting one's ideals.

No, adults can choose to maintain their ideals and fight against what they perceive as injustice. It's just that adults are typically more realistic about the odds of success in such endeavors than adolescents and kids are.

In the real world, even someone like Ohana would eventually have to accept that she's not going to win every moral or ideological fight that she enters into. But that doesn't mean she has to abandon her ideals as she becomes an adult, or stop fighting for what she believes in altogether. Many adults don't.
I strongly agree. Obviously, it takes a certain kind of people to stand up to injustice, only a few have the balls and/or the means to do so (and I'm the first to admit I'm probably not one of them). Society became a little better thanks to people like them. Just because the majority turns a blind eye to those kind of things doesn't mean it's the adult thing to do and that kids ought to grow up to become as cynical as current adults.
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Old 2011-06-16, 13:30   Link #145
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Now before I go on a little rant I'd like to say this epīsode rocked my soul!

One gripe with Mari Okada (lucky me she actualy wrote the script of this epode),it's a problem I have with her writing (not just in this show) sometimes I feel there's too much monologues,some feel like they're just there to spoonfeed us the info as if we're not smart enough to "get it".

Case and point in the scene where Ohana tells Ko it wasn't ok to not give a proper answer to a love confession.
She stops halfway through and I get it in her reaction:she never gave Ko a propper answer either,I remember episode 1 so I don't need a monologue to explain all this to me.
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Old 2011-06-16, 13:40   Link #146
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On the most recent episode of Hana Saku Iroha, Ohana goes after the bastard that gave them a mediocre review. Fortunately I was on vacation so she was frustrated to find nobody there. (But who wouldn't want her over though?)

Oh wait, she's going after the other hater, and it turns out to be... her mom. Oh man, does Mom do anything right; given her laziness, trivial things such as facts don't bother her. She'd make a good politician, or a reviewer for ANN.

Ohana threatening "balut" was funny.

It's pretty damned ridiculous how much she doesn't care, even going as far as pulling out a smoke as Ohana is raging at her. It seems to take a long time to realize Ohana is really pissed at her, making her not only a failure as a mother but also at realizing what other people think. She does start to slowly recant but Ohana refuses this gesture of peace. War will happen, and someone's going down.

So she runs into Kou and all is nice, but both of them seem really confused, and Ohana for once doesn't know what to do or say at all because she's worried as hell about Kou's co-worker. I think it's probably nothing. So she runs, and of course meets a gang of shady men (Mari Okada seems fond of it) because the plot hates her, so you know, you can't have an episode where Ohana isn't miserable.

Then it ends with Minko and Touru saving the day. If they were the only two people out there to save me, I'd cry too.

Actually Minko was pretty nice this episode, for her at least.

Anyhow, this episode gets 5 stars out of 10.
Spoiler for oh wait:
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Old 2011-06-16, 14:08   Link #147
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First and foremost, this was an excellent ep. 8/10 vote from me.

That being said, I am afraid I fall into the "camp" of those who have a continually lowering opinion for Ohana's mother.

Yes - the episode portrayed the entire situation very well ... there are people who work jobs like that and are "stuck" - happy they just have employment and are able to pay the bills and make ends meet and the rest.

But that is not what is the main issue for me here. The main issue is the insensitive and outright callous attitude the mother has towards her daughter when she comes to confront her about it. The feeling I get is that Satsuki did not want a daughter, but found herself pregnant and found that the child "got in her way", but grudgingly accepted the responsibility of raising the child. Even now it seems that is the "default setting" ... she does have some motherly feelings for Ohana, but the over-riding feeling of "Satsuki first" (and in a self centered way) is still present. Of course, on the bright side of things the very fact that Satsuki did not abort Ohana and agreed to provide for her is a good thing - perhaps a huge step forward for her. But imo she still has a lot of work to do....

It is also possible that Satsuki developed such a strong "me first" attitude because of a desire to want to "break out" of the environment SHE grew up in ... I could see growing up under the strict, no-nonsense, "customer first" approach of the "landlady" (i.e. Satsuki's mother/Ohana's grandmother - who is running Kissui Inn) as stifling and evoking a desire to get out, thus bringing forth a strong "me first" attitude to "survive". Even so - even if one can understand the reason why such selfishness helped to be cultivated in a person the existence of such selfishness in a person is still not praiseworthy.

Ohana was raised in such an environment and since the apple does not fall away from the tree she is dealing with the results - I think she sees that she has developed some similar character traits that she dislikes in her mother and has been suffering from them off and on throughout the episodes (and in episode 11) up to now.

Perhaps the series' main focus will be a chronicle of how Ohana herself "breaks out" of the cycle she has been handed, but does so in a healthier and more wholesome way?
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Old 2011-06-16, 17:19   Link #148
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But that is not what is the main issue for me here. The main issue is the insensitive and outright callous attitude the mother has towards her daughter when she comes to confront her about it. The feeling I get is that Satsuki did not want a daughter, but found herself pregnant and found that the child "got in her way", but grudgingly accepted the responsibility of raising the child. Even now it seems that is the "default setting" ... she does have some motherly feelings for Ohana, but the over-riding feeling of "Satsuki first" (and in a self centered way) is still present. Of course, on the bright side of things the very fact that Satsuki did not abort Ohana and agreed to provide for her is a good thing - perhaps a huge step forward for her. But imo she still has a lot of work to do....
You are being too judgmental on Satsuki here. Who Satsuki is now does not necessarily reveal who Satsuki was in the past - lots of things change in 16 years. The existence of Ohana and Satsuki's decision to send her away may not be proof that Satsuki is progressing as a mother... quite the opposite, even. Maybe she's degenerated from a loving, caring parent to someone who lives solely for her own self-interest.

Even so, I still feel Satsuki is trying to protect Ohana in her own messed up type of way. We've all seen stories when a parent makes a living through dangerous or morally appalling means, and tries to send their child away so they don't grow up to be just as bad as their parent. In the same way Satsuki is trying to protect her own daughter from growing up as the child of some dishonest, bribed review writer by sending Ohana somewhere she'll learn the values of hard work and family. Satsuki is separating herself from Ohana because she loves her daughter.
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Old 2011-06-16, 17:31   Link #149
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S'okay - it is fine to "stir the pot" imo if it involves defending something in the context of standing up for the possible good in a thing and giving it the benefit of the doubt. I can certainly respect that!

You are right, of course, when you say that who Satsuki is now does not NECESSARILY reveal who Satsuki was in the past ... and it is true that lots of things can change in 16 years. And the manner you present Satsuki certainly could be the case, too. (It would be nice if it did turn out to be so.)

But I am still not convinced at this point. No doubt more will be revealed as the series progresses - but atm I am not very impressed with Satsuki, although I have a sneaking suspicion there is a lot more to her than is being presented.

Ah well.
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Old 2011-06-16, 17:59   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
As back in the Madoka days, I once again find myself stirring the mixing pot...



You are being too judgmental on Satsuki here. Who Satsuki is now does not necessarily reveal who Satsuki was in the past - lots of things change in 16 years. The existence of Ohana and Satsuki's decision to send her away may not be proof that Satsuki is progressing as a mother... quite the opposite, even. Maybe she's degenerated from a loving, caring parent to someone who lives solely for her own self-interest.
Yeah... As I said in Satsuki's thread, I'm curious about the early years. Considering how well Ohana turned out, she must have done something right. Instead of, I don't know, stuffing baby Ohana into a freezer or something. (Yes, that happens. Crazy moms can be really crazy. Satsuki's merely a bit irresponsible.)
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Old 2011-06-16, 20:34   Link #151
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Just to play devil's advocate, both Sui and Enishi have mentioned how similar Satsuki and Ohana are. And Ohana herself a bit when she mentioned that she must get her lack of consideration/obliviousness to the situation (kuuki yomenai-ness, for lack of a better way to put it) from her mother...
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Old 2011-06-17, 01:11   Link #152
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But I am still not convinced at this point. No doubt more will be revealed as the series progresses - but atm I am not very impressed with Satsuki, although I have a sneaking suspicion there is a lot more to her than is being presented.

Ah well.
I suppose the writer makes a stylistic choice in keeping Satsuki's past a mystery for now, rather than explicating the reasons why she's so self-interested immediately after she gives many inns a negative review. Building up to the big reveal is pretty commonplace among anime, and I believe the writer intentionally wishes for the viewers to hate on Satsuki now.

I don't entirely understand why a viewer needs to be convinced of Satsuki's hidden caring side... even though I do respect evaluating characters as of the current episode. Personally I'm alright with Satsuki being an unloving parent to her own daughter - Satsuki's personality adds needed diversity to a show where everyone is a nice person. (Well, Tohru and Madam Manager excluded...)

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Just to play devil's advocate, both Sui and Enishi have mentioned how similar Satsuki and Ohana are. And Ohana herself a bit when she mentioned that she must get her lack of consideration/obliviousness to the situation (kuuki yomenai-ness, for lack of a better way to put it) from her mother...
I wouldn't mistake obliviousness for eagerness, but you can make the case as a devil's advocate. Ohana doesn't think through her actions; instead she chooses to rush headfirst into solving every visible problem and injustice. Because she's so attentive and considerate of everyone around her, Ohana chooses to fling herself into their lives and try to make things right.
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Old 2011-06-17, 01:40   Link #153
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This reminds me of the debates over the characters after ep. 1. People were bellyaching about the grandmother slapping Ohana. Others thought Ohana was annoying and arrogant. A few thought Minko was a jerk. And of course some thought Satsuki was irresponsible too.

That probably has something to do with the reason why I liked both episodes so much
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Old 2011-06-17, 02:08   Link #154
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Just to play devil's advocate, both Sui and Enishi have mentioned how similar Satsuki and Ohana are. And Ohana herself a bit when she mentioned that she must get her lack of consideration/obliviousness to the situation (kuuki yomenai-ness, for lack of a better way to put it) from her mother...
Yeah, I remember the part where Ohana's grandma commented to her vaguely hapless son that Ohana was 'the spitting image' of Satsuki. Which makes me wonder if Ohana's mom straightens her hair because it's naturally wavy like Ohana's sexhair is.
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Old 2011-06-17, 02:31   Link #155
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This reminds me of the debates over the characters after ep. 1. People were bellyaching about the grandmother slapping Ohana. Others thought Ohana was annoying and arrogant. A few thought Minko was a jerk. And of course some thought Satsuki was irresponsible too.

That probably has something to do with the reason why I liked both episodes so much
Like I and other said earlier, there is probably going to be a reason for her behavior. Whether the reasons for dumping her daughter off to go away with her boyfriend, not call her for six months other than sending her a photo of her with her boyfriend enjoying themselves, writing a bad review of the place said daughter works in which might ends up causing the Inn to run out of business, and then not asking her to go home with her and leaving her on the street are good is the present question.

My guess? She has some inner demons back from the says at the Inn, and that scared her mentally to the point where she became uncaring to anyones happiness other than herself, except when she tries and be a decent mother by providing a roof over her daughter's head and accept the occasional pity punishment every now and then.

Now while I certainly empathize with her being a single mother and all, so her missing the Work Day at school for example can be attributed to Ohana's own vision as opposed to her own (she might have been indeed working with her daughter in mind) and can be said to not really matter much, but the other things like the running off and the bad review ... yeah.

So we'll see, but if it is inner demons, they had better have some really long twisted horns.
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Old 2011-06-17, 02:45   Link #156
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Help me out here…Ko told the glasses girl at the books store that after her confession, he couldn’t return her feelings, but… she told him she’d wait?

To me, that is pretty concrete on Ko’s part. He is refusing her but she is unwilling to accept it and is willing to wait for a better answer. That he gave this explanation to Ohana and she upbraids him on not being clear is confusing to me. He was more honest and upfront to the glasses girl than Ohana ever was to Ko after his confession…(actually he fled after he confessed so even if she had an answer for him, he refused to listen.)

Between Satsuki and Ko, Ohana never had a chance. I am really interested in what Ohana has to say to the glasses bookstore chick in the next episode…I just hope she doesn't go all noble and give Ko up.
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Old 2011-06-17, 10:18   Link #157
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I think I was rather explicit, so you should have called me out specifically.
I was responding to a couple people there (I personally interpreted some of tezu's points as having the same meaning as yours had), not you alone.


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But if others are making the argument... maybe there's some merit to crushing childhood idealism?
One thing I've studied a great deal in College and University is business and politics over the past hundred to two hundred years. Positive changes never occurred in those fields (or on the many areas of life impacted on by them) by people calmly accepting injustice. They were due very much to the contrary. They were due to people having ideals that they were striving towards, and/or a strong personal sense of justice (in many cases, quite similar to Ohana in this anime) that they acted upon.

The modern workplace is still flawed in some ways, but it's come a long way from the beginning of the Industrial Age, and it's precisely due to people refusing to accept truly unacceptable situations.

Childhood idealism absolutely should not be crushed. A wise parent will see their child with such idealism, and will seek to temper it with realistic expectations and pointing to practical ways of channeling it.


Quote:

I'd love to respond to this, but some random American writer already has so I'll just regurgitate his thoughts.

"At 18 our convictions are hills from which we look; At 45 they are caves in which we hide."
That American writer is wrong, in my opinion.


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No it doesn't mean people necessarily abandon what is considered "ideal," but adults do learn or cope with the fact that there is very little they can do about many injustices in their life.
That depends on what the particular injustices are, and where a person lives. In other words, this can vary quite a bit from person to person, and from place to place depending on what the laws are in that place.


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It's just important to note that when people are forced to make the less favorable decision idealistically, that one can only condemn that person if they are willing to condemn themselves for most likely taking the exact same decision.
That only applies if they would, in fact, take the exact same decision. But yes, it does apply then.
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Old 2011-06-17, 13:24   Link #158
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I agree with Arabesque in his clarification of the question being whether the actions he listed Satsuki in of themselves were good actions. As of right now they looked like they were not, even if one may be able to empathize with her "rationale" as to why she was doing them or how she came to the place where she could act like that. For now I am not impressed.

I also agree with Triple R in his statement that:

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
....Childhood idealism absolutely should not be crushed. A wise parent will see their child with such idealism, and will seek to temper it with realistic expectations and pointing to practical ways of channeling it....
I would agree that what the American writer quoted may be the case with some people (perhaps even a large number), but I still think that even if he is describing something that is commonplace I don't think it is a good thing to become like that.

Still, Reckoner has a point when he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner
No it doesn't mean people necessarily abandon what is considered "ideal," but adults do learn or cope with the fact that there is very little they can do about many injustices in their life.
I generally agree with this but to me the difference is in the "shades" and manner to which this is done.

One of the most difficult things anyone has to face in one's life is how one should act, believe, etc. when confronted with "injustice" or situations where it seems they have to compromise their idealism in some way. Retaining idealism vs. becoming jaded has always been a struggle. Not to go too black and white here, of course, there are many shades of grey in between and there is a difference between general principles one can articulate and the actual application of the principles in the events we meet day by day.

This is one of the main things episode 11 (and perhaps one of the main themes of the series overall thus far?) seems to be dealing ... and in a poignant, effective way imo. To me Satsuki has compromised too much and become a little too jaded (she is not yet "extinguished" it seems, or leading a life of "quiet desperation"). Ohana has not yet "compromised" much but is just beginning to face the situation all of us have to face. No real "decisions" were given in the chapter, no "judgements" per se, but the presentation of the characters in of themselves evokes thoughts on the subject in general and makes us think about it. Imo it would not hurt for more of us to be reminded about this.
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Old 2011-06-17, 13:37   Link #159
Anh_Minh
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This is one of the main things episode 11 (and perhaps one of the main themes of the series overall thus far?) seems to be dealing ... and in a poignant, effective way imo. To me Satsuki has compromised too much and become a little too jaded (she is not yet "extinguished" it seems, or leading a life of "quiet desperation").
It's possible. It's also possible she never had much to compromise in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Like I and other said earlier, there is probably going to be a reason for her behavior. Whether the reasons for dumping her daughter off to go away with her boyfriend, not call her for six months other than sending her a photo of her with her boyfriend enjoying themselves, writing a bad review of the place said daughter works in which might ends up causing the Inn to run out of business, and then not asking her to go home with her and leaving her on the street are good is the present question.

My guess? She has some inner demons back from the says at the Inn, and that scared her mentally to the point where she became uncaring to anyones happiness other than herself, except when she tries and be a decent mother by providing a roof over her daughter's head and accept the occasional pity punishment every now and then.

Now while I certainly empathize with her being a single mother and all, so her missing the Work Day at school for example can be attributed to Ohana's own vision as opposed to her own (she might have been indeed working with her daughter in mind) and can be said to not really matter much, but the other things like the running off and the bad review ... yeah.

So we'll see, but if it is inner demons, they had better have some really long twisted horns.
I wonder if Satsuki's behavior isn't some kind of twisted reflection of the way she was raised? To her own mother, it's always "the customers". First, last, and only. At the expense of her employees and, I suppose, her family. Maybe Satsuki resented being told by her own mother how utterly unimportant she was compared to strangers who happened to spend a few days at the inn and (most importantly) fork over some money. And, like many mistreated children, she repeated the pattern by focusing on her work rather than her daughter? And maybe to her, the new hotel is the customer, so who cares if she has to hurt her family's business to satisfy it?

Or maybe she just decided that, since her mom had cared only for others, she'd care only about herself?
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Old 2011-06-17, 13:42   Link #160
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
....I wonder if Satsuki's behavior isn't some kind of twisted reflection of the way she was raised? To her own mother, it's always "the customers". First, last, and only. At the expense of her employees and, I suppose, her family. Maybe Satsuki resented being told by her own mother how utterly unimportant she was compared to strangers who happened to spend a few days at the inn and (most importantly) fork over some money....

Or maybe she just decided that, since her mom had cared only for others, she'd care only about herself?
I said pretty much the same thing earlier as for a possible source of Satsuki's behavior and agree with this evaluation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
...And, like many mistreated children, she repeated the pattern by focusing on her work rather than her daughter? And maybe to her, the new hotel is the customer, so who cares if she has to hurt her family's business to satisfy it?...
Hmm ... this is an interesting angle on things. Didn't think of it like that. Certainly seems possible.... Essentially we have a repeat of a pattern she was exposed to, but with her own individual "twist" on it.
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