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Old 2011-06-17, 21:55   Link #11341
Mr.Kyon
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You mean he's not lazy and irresponsible with his school work? Or that he's a troubled student that gets into fight in the back alleys?

He's not a perfect character, he has deviant streaks.
If you compare to many other characters, that's really not a big thing. Heck, haven't we all at least been lazy about school at one time?
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Old 2011-06-17, 22:08   Link #11342
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon View Post
If you compare to many other characters, that's really not a big thing. Heck, haven't we all at least been lazy about school at one time?
It's better than nothing and at the same time shows that Touma is not always an upstanding citizen. What kind of flaw are you looking for? Do every character have to make one bad decision or an amoral choice to be considered interesting? By definition, even having a single flaw no matter how small, you cannot call a person 'perfect'.

In a world filled with child experiments and religious persecutions, what's wrong with having a good honest character to rely on? And it's not like he's the perfect example of virtue... He has just enough deviance to avoid that.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2011-06-17 at 22:22.
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Old 2011-06-17, 22:09   Link #11343
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
In a world filled with child experiments and religious persecutions, what's wrong with having a good honest character to rely on?
The problem is it's far too black and white.
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Old 2011-06-17, 22:13   Link #11344
Okashira
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Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
This reminds me of the time when Touma's class had to hand in a sheet on what they want to do in the future, Touma written "Anything is fine, as long as I become lucky", Motoharu written stuff like "I'm going to conquer the maid kingdom", and Aogami... I forgot what he wrote
I want to be popular. With a bigger front size, even How i wish that Aisa would have written something like "I want magic" or "I want to be unique" and see herself dragged into the problem student group

Quote:
So yeah, I'd say Touma doesn't really have a goal in life... too busy trying to deal with his bad luck to think otherwise.
"A world were no one has to cry and no one has to lose anything at all". Curiously enough he only told Mikoto about "his dream".

Part 3 of volume 21 of chapter 6 got updated. I can't tell if it was mentioned before since I'm drunk and sleepy :P


a,
Quote:


For what I can tell it only mentions that the new long awaited issue is coming out that "Kamijou Touma, Accelerator y Hamazura Shiage get acquainted". There is a little bit extra about how another volume is coming out in the same date with Styl SS (and only Styl SS? I can't tell that nicely).
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Old 2011-06-17, 22:27   Link #11345
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
The problem is it's far too black and white.
Not really, look at it this way- Academy City does all these kind of horrible things, but at the same time it's a place for people with unnatural abilities to call home and for science and technology to flourish. Should you destroy Academy City because of it's dark side? What happens if you do? Would you condemn the rest of the population?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
I want to be popular. With a bigger front size, even How i wish that Aisa would have written something like "I want magic" or "I want to be unique" and see herself dragged into the problem student group
Aogami isn't popular? There goes the theory that he's the 6th

If he was, he would definitely be popular

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
"A world were no one has to cry and no one has to lose anything at all". Curiously enough he only told Mikoto about "his dream".
I was under the impression that it was only in regards to the situation with the Level 6 experiment


Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
For what I can tell it only mentions that the new long awaited issue is coming out that "Kamijou Touma, Accelerator y Hamazura Shiage get acquainted". There is a little bit extra about how another volume is coming out in the same date with Styl SS (and only Styl SS? I can't tell that nicely).
Is there something like "A Big incident will occur?!" because I could have sworn I saw those words...
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Old 2011-06-18, 00:17   Link #11346
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Not really, look at it this way- Academy City does all these kind of horrible things, but at the same time it's a place for people with unnatural abilities to call home and for science and technology to flourish. Should you destroy Academy City because of it's dark side? What happens if you do? Would you condemn the rest of the population?
You also have to look at the other side of the coin: The people with unnatural abilities flourish, yes. But what about those without unnatural abilities? Or those with lesser unnatural abilities in the face of greater unnatural abilities? Science and technology flourish but at what cost? Look at the various Level 6 projects, and the technologies AC develops from various Esper abilities. Look at how AC creates the masks used by the Equ.DarkMatter soldiers.

There's two sides to every coin, yes. But black and white isn't how the world works, and attempting to portray it that way is overly simplistic and disingenuous.
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Old 2011-06-18, 00:30   Link #11347
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
You also have to look at the other side of the coin: The people with unnatural abilities flourish, yes. But what about those without unnatural abilities? Or those with lesser unnatural abilities in the face of greater unnatural abilities? Science and technology flourish but at what cost? Look at the various Level 6 projects, and the technologies AC develops from various Esper abilities. Look at how AC creates the masks used by the Equ.DarkMatter soldiers.

There's two sides to every coin, yes. But black and white isn't how the world works, and attempting to portray it that way is overly simplistic and disingenuous.

I seriously don't know what you're getting at. Since when in the world of Toaruverse ever completely black or white? On face value yes, there are some obvious wrong deeds, but those behind those evil deeds are also responsible for protecting the city and it's inhabitants.

I've already said that Academy City does bad things, but you seem to ignore that there is also good to come from technology improving. What about better living standards? Transportation? Green Energy? Medical science to help save lives? And there is an unbalance between people with power and those that doesn't. So what? Every country has it's racial, class and religious separation, doesn't mean the entire city is bad. Do you purge the entire city because of the bad that comes from it? Isn't that alittle too black and white view?
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Old 2011-06-18, 00:35   Link #11348
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I seriously don't know what you're getting at. Since when in the world of Toaruverse ever completely black or white? On face value yes, there are some obvious wrong deeds, but those behind those evil deeds are also responsible for protecting the city and it's inhabitants.

I've already said that Academy City does bad things, but you seem to ignore that there is also good to come from technology improving. What about better living standards? Transportation? Green Energy? Medical science to help save lives? And there is an unbalance between people with power and those that doesn't. So what? Every country has it's racial, class and religious separation, doesn't mean the entire city is bad.
I was never talking about Academy City in the first place; that was just where you went. I'm talking about Touma. Everything is black and white whenever he's involved, and he's the white.
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Old 2011-06-18, 00:53   Link #11349
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
I was never talking about Academy City in the first place; that was just where you went. I'm talking about Touma. Everything is black and white whenever he's involved, and he's the white.
Black and White from who's stand point? Touma or us? You need to be abit more specific before I know how to answer you
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:01   Link #11350
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Black and White from who's stand point? Touma or us? You need to be abit more specific before I know how to answer you
Us. Touma's the good guy and everyone who sides with him or shares the same goals is in the right.
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:13   Link #11351
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Us. Touma's the good guy and everyone who sides with him or shares the same goals is in the right.
No not really, I still think Necessarius is a den of Vipers...

I'm very certain Touma knows about the dark side of Academy City, maybe not the full extent, but he knows that it exist. But he still doesn't hesitate to protect this city, and to that end, he also protects the Dark Side of it.

Wait, if you were referring to us, doesn't that mean we're the one's that are attempting to portray it that way is overly simplistic and disingenuous?
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:29   Link #11352
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Wait, if you were referring to us, doesn't that mean we're the one's that are attempting to portray it that way is overly simplistic and disingenuous?
This, mostly. Everywhere I go, even on TV Tropes, Touma is generally viewed as this infallible god who will "shatter the illusions" of everyone who opposes or disagrees with him and makes every woman he sees fall irrevocably in love with him.
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:37   Link #11353
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
This, mostly. Everywhere I go, even on TV Tropes, Touma is generally viewed as this infallible god who will "shatter the illusions" of everyone who opposes or disagrees with him and makes every woman he sees fall irrevocably in love with him.

Well for one thing, not every girl likes him that way, why can't people see that?

For another, and I'm still trying to find the quote for this, even Touma himself admits that he's not a perfect human that can get everything right.
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:39   Link #11354
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
For another, and I'm still trying to find the quote for this, even Touma himself admits that he's not a perfect human that can get everything right.
The problem is that's how the fandom at large views him, which bleeds over into everything I see about him and the To Aruverse.
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:55   Link #11355
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
The problem is that's how the fandom at large views him, which bleeds over into everything I see about him and the To Aruverse.
God damnit, help me find that quote I know it's somewhere from vol 14 up to 20
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:57   Link #11356
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I know it's somewhere from vol 14 up to 20
That's real specific.
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Old 2011-06-18, 02:00   Link #11357
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
That's real specific.
Well if it was easy, I would have done it myself already

Okay, narrowing it down, it's either in 14, 16, 17, or 18. I never read SS2 and I'm almost certain it's not in 20 because I've only read it recently.
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Old 2011-06-18, 02:30   Link #11358
Okashira
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Well if it was easy, I would have done it myself already

Okay, narrowing it down, it's either in 14, 16, 17, or 18. I never read SS2 and I'm almost certain it's not in 20 because I've only read it recently.
I'm pretty sure that Touma calls himself "負け犬" ("loser", lit defeated dog) in vol 1. In vol 3 he also calls himself the worst level 0 of Academy City. About calling himself "not perfect"; considering the type of speech it was probably vs Terra (who was indirectly looking for people "worthy") or against Fiamma the humble


Quote:
Originally Posted by Between the Lines 4 (V21)
“This isn’t an issue with how risky it is. If one side is putting all their efforts into killing a normal high school student and the other side is putting all her efforts into saving that normal high school student, which side do you want to be on? Which side could you proudly say you were on?”

The pilot fell silent upon being asked those questions.

(…Ahh. This kind of talk just isn’t my thing. I think he infected me or something.)

Mikoto scratched at her head.

(This is all that idiot’s fault! As soon as I find him, I’m punching him!! Strategy meeting complete!!)
Is this a new symptom of the Kami-yan disease? Heroic preaching?
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Last edited by Okashira; 2011-06-18 at 02:48.
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Old 2011-06-18, 02:38   Link #11359
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
I'm pretty sure that Touma calls himself "負け犬" ("loser", lit defeated dog) in vol 1. In vol 3 he also calls himself the worst level 0 of Academy City. About calling himself "not perfect"; considering the type of speech it was probably vs Terra (who was indirectly looking for people "worthy") or against Fiamma the humble
As I recall it wasn't a lecture against a foe... More like one of those monologue thingy... Gahhh! It's driving me crazy...

Quote:
"Because I am a small man, my heart is moved by what's in front of my eyes, not by what the whole world needs. I can't just abandon what's in front of me."
While not from Index, this quote definitely suits Touma. I think there's a big difference from being this (the above) and being naive.


@Mikoto

I don't think that's the only thing you've been infected with

A girl in love is invincible!
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Old 2011-06-18, 02:48   Link #11360
NightGale
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
"Because I am a small man, my heart is moved by what's in front of my eyes, not by what the whole world needs. I can't just abandon what's in front of me."

While not from Index, this quote definitely suits Touma. I think there's a big difference from being this (the above) and being naive.
Yeah, it suits him perfectly. Touma is someone that just like Aiwass said in vol 19, "does whatever he feels like it": what he feels is right, what he feels is for the best, etc. It seems good because he uses his "common sense" to gauge these things and that common sense of his, pretty much guides him to an ideal but ordinary world.
P.D: Can you tell me from where is that quote?

Last edited by NightGale; 2011-06-18 at 03:39.
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