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Old 2011-06-18, 18:26   Link #20341
tyranuus
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Mmmm, just read through the last 15 or so pages of posts that have emerged whilst I was away, and hadn't had a chance to read yesterday.

I'm sure I had a few fair points to make but damned if I can remember them now. I am however looking forward to seeing what state Tsukune is in, or at, when Touhai lets him go after Akua; there's also the fact his ghoul mode seems very much to be akin to a sort of 'Devil Trigger' mode ala Devil May Cry; with the slight side effect of burgeoning insanity; should he get beaten to the usual point of no return.
He's also slowly getting closer to taking control of that power as well; considering Tsukune has now reached a point whereby even in Ghoul mode; he retains his conscious self, even if it's not the portion of him in control. Back in the early days; I don't remember him even remembering. That his conscious self is now strong enough to remain 'awake' and remember, it's obviously either getting use to his vampiric self, becoming slowly attuned, or getting stronger itself; giving a clear indication at some point, not now, and likely not for some time, but one day Tsukune will be in full control of every essence of power we've seen his ghoul form exhibit; and likely more as he'll no longer effectively be acting against himself.

He's definately gone up a whole different level of power though, just judging by the blast he gave the ground without even trying; and the punch we saw in Ghoul mode; I'm definately looking forward to seeing Moka's rescue, and her reaction to the Six-Million-Dollar-Tsukune He's definately starting to stretch his legs from the early encounters; and it's not just his conscious form getting stronger, so is his ghoul.

He's definately going to be a tough one if he survives long enough.

I'm also definately looking forward now to finding out what's happened to Issa. With his wife in her position; it makes me all the more interested to find out where he is; whats happened to him and what he's been doing. Someone who heads a large vampire coven, and can take a mistress, whilst having a wife like that says something about his strength.
PERHAPS he HAS been killed; or taken out the picture. But I somehow think that he'd be too strong to depose easily.

Also glad to see a small hint that Akasha may well still be alive; although 50/50 as she may instead have merged with Alucard.

Akua's also still bat-shit crazy it has to be said; right now I've no idea if she'll do a turn round like Kokoa, or whether she really might have to be killed; or whether she'll simply up and leave/continue to be a pain from the side lines.

Once Tsukune's learnt something that'll at least give him a chance against the Jigen-Tou, it's certainly going to be a nasty fight; especially if any element of the 'ghoul' appears.
We saw previously that Akua didn't want to take on Touhai; but we saw last chapter just what Tsukune's ghoul form is capable of right now, absolutely wasting him. I'd say that suggests the raw power potential [albeit not the level Tsukune can control] from Tsukune is already far higher; but Akua has control and technique on her side.

From obvious suggestions and the original 'falcon punch' it'd also suggest that Tsukune in his current conscious state; has probably surpassed the strength of his at-the-time-far-stronger ghoul form when we first saw it; demonstrating how much he has grown; and perhaps not entirely from Touhai's ritual, but from experience and the Ayashi nature slowly becoming a bigger part of him.
[Although there is also no doubt the ritual hasn't also given him a fairly potent power up/helped bring out a little more of his potential]
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2011-06-19 at 04:46.
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Old 2011-06-19, 01:55   Link #20342
kenjiharima
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Old 2011-06-19, 17:40   Link #20343
KLGChaos
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My question is, how long will the training of Tsukune take? I figure the next chapter or two will focus on Moka and Alucard while dealing with Akuha's mother. So, maybe 5-6 chapters from now they may finally be ready to go after Moka? Or do you guys think the author will draw it out longer? With the pace the slow pace arc has had, I'm thinking we may be a year away from a Tsukune x Moka reunion. I really wish this were a weekly manga.
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Old 2011-06-19, 19:44   Link #20344
khprincessh
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My question is, how long will the training of Tsukune take? I figure the next chapter or two will focus on Moka and Alucard while dealing with Akuha's mother. So, maybe 5-6 chapters from now they may finally be ready to go after Moka? Or do you guys think the author will draw it out longer? With the pace the slow pace arc has had, I'm thinking we may be a year away from a Tsukune x Moka reunion. I really wish this were a weekly manga.
it should take like 2 chapters right? maybe author will draw it out longer.who knows you never know what he will do.A weekly manga no way thats to fast the season will be over like that
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Old 2011-06-20, 07:34   Link #20345
Shinso Tsukune
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What exactly did Akua mean when she told Moka "carve a way through this fate together with me", does this mean she wants Moka to help her break away from their "fate" with Alucard?
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Old 2011-06-20, 07:45   Link #20346
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What exactly did Akua mean when she told Moka "carve a way through this fate together with me", does this mean she wants Moka to help her break away from their "fate" with Alucard?
Most likely, but she's going about it the wrong way. From the looks of it, she seems to think the only way to break away from that fate is to have his power for themselves. Akasha had the right idea in wanting Moka to live a normal life for herself and not worry about/completely forget Alucard, and thus erasing all her memories with respect to him.

As for the training, I don't think Ikeda's going to waste anymore time on it and keep the results of his training a surprise and whatever else Tsukune will do with Fuhai-sensei will take place off-panel. Next time we see him, I assume it'll be to plan how they make an entry into the HQ.
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Old 2011-06-20, 08:04   Link #20347
Shinso Tsukune
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Most likely, but she's going about it the wrong way. From the looks of it, she seems to think the only way to break away from that fate is to have his power for themselves. Akasha had the right idea in wanting Moka to live a normal life for herself and not worry about/completely forget Alucard, and thus erasing all her memories with respect to him.

As for the training, I don't think Ikeda's going to waste anymore time on it and keep the results of his training a surprise and whatever else Tsukune will do with Fuhai-sensei will take place off-panel. Next time we see him, I assume it'll be to plan how they make an entry into the HQ.
Thats what i thought, than Tsukune is definitely the man who will change both Akua's and Moka's fates in the end, no doubt about that now

And as for the training, Touhou didn't say that there was a technique that Tsukune would need to know in order to fight Jigen-Tou, but all he had to know how to do is know Youjutsu, which Tsukune now knows. So since Touhou didn't say anything about any sort of technique that could block Jigen-Tou, than i'm hoping Ikeda would skip over the rest of the training and go straight to the "Rescue Moka Arc", since it would be pointless to continue the "Training Arc", if Tsukune isn't going to learn anything specific to block Jigen-Tou.

It's interesting isn't it?, Akua has her agenda, Gyokuro has her agenda, Tsukune and Co. has their agenda and Hokuto as well as Kiria has their agenda (along with Miyabi, no doubt), this is basically a " every man and woman for themselves" as well as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" will be used in this upcoming arc, with all that you just know that things are going to get bat-shit crazy on the floating garden
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Old 2011-06-20, 15:02   Link #20348
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And as for the training, Touhou didn't say that there was a technique that Tsukune would need to know in order to fight Jigen-Tou, but all he had to know how to do is know Youjutsu, which Tsukune now knows. So since Touhou didn't say anything about any sort of technique that could block Jigen-Tou, than i'm hoping Ikeda would skip over the rest of the training and go straight to the "Rescue Moka Arc", since it would be pointless to continue the "Training Arc", if Tsukune isn't going to learn anything specific to block Jigen-Tou.
Dunno, from the way Fuhai-sensei went about it before, it would seem like there is a certain technique designed to counter the Jigen-tou, altho Tsukune will have to go through some more training to master and control his own Youkai before learning such advanced Youjutsu. At the stage he's at, he already has much more stamina than Akua, that's already fairly certain, and that was the main reason Akua beat zombie girl (can't ever remember her name to save my life), so what I'm hoping for is that Tsukune learns the Jigen-tou himself, or at least the basic form of it. With his power and the basic technique, he should be able to face Akua quite evenly.
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Old 2011-06-20, 23:37   Link #20349
kenjiharima
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The R+V Wikia is updated

http://rosariovampire.wikia.com/wiki/Gyokuro_Shuzen


I got a feeling this is all just a family affair in the end and Alucard is the main baddie villainous-Bosseus. lol
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Old 2011-06-21, 07:28   Link #20350
Shinso Tsukune
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Dunno, from the way Fuhai-sensei went about it before, it would seem like there is a certain technique designed to counter the Jigen-tou, altho Tsukune will have to go through some more training to master and control his own Youkai before learning such advanced Youjutsu. At the stage he's at, he already has much more stamina than Akua, that's already fairly certain, and that was the main reason Akua beat zombie girl (can't ever remember her name to save my life), so what I'm hoping for is that Tsukune learns the Jigen-tou himself, or at least the basic form of it. With his power and the basic technique, he should be able to face Akua quite evenly.
Yes, Tsukune definitely has more stamina, strength, speed, power, than even Akua does, this was made clear when he was under the control of his Shinso blood during the ritual, now with his Shinso blood resealed, she will indeed be a difficult opponent for him to face, but with a youkai body now, Tsukune will definitely be able to fight at higher levels, than when he was human.

I also agree that a Jigen-Tou of his own would allow him to be able to fight on equal grounds with Akua, considering all of her fighting is centered around Jigen-Tou anyway, and that right there is her weakness, but by the time they encounter and fight, Tsukune will already know how to block Jigen-Tou and he will have the advantage over Akua, if she doesn't use any others means to fight, however, i don't know weather or not Tsukne will still learn Jigen-Tou, but it's still a possibility.

The zombie girls name is "Ling-Ling Wong"

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The R+V Wikia is updated

http://rosariovampire.wikia.com/wiki/Gyokuro_Shuzen


I got a feeling this is all just a family affair in the end and Alucard is the main baddie villainous-Bosseus. lol
Yeah, ive noticed a lot of wikia updates on R+V, but Tsukune's monster type is still listed as human/ghoul, which is way off, thats something that does need changing
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Old 2011-06-21, 10:07   Link #20351
HayashiTakara
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Tsukune should be listed as "Unknown" or "Shinso", Touhai himself realized his mistake when calling him a ghoul.
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Old 2011-06-21, 10:43   Link #20352
Shinso Tsukune
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Tsukune's monster type should be like "Shinso/Youkai", since he is no longer human anymore.
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Old 2011-06-21, 11:23   Link #20353
Chris38
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Tsukune's monster type should be like "Shinso/Youkai", since he is no longer human anymore.
Well, while I agree that Tsukune can't be called a normal human anymore, but I would say that even after Tsukune's latest transformation, Tsukune's body has still partially retained it's humanity, since if he had been a Shinso / youkai hybrid like you think Shinso Tsukune, Tsukune would be affected by the weaknesses of a Shinso vampire, and would need blood to survive, and we haven't seen anything like that happening to Tsukune. After all, the only reason why Tsukune's body is still immune to vampire weaknesses and doesn't need blood to survive, is because his current body still physically retained a part of it's humanity.

Furthermore why do you think that HTsukune is a Shinso / youkai hybrid, if the case is the human modification ritual then I think you are mistaking something, since any kind of ayashi can learn youkai techniques, it's just that the method used to make Tsukune learn them has been a bit unusual due to Tsukune, not having enough time to learn ayashi techniques using the normal way of learning.

In other words, to me Tsukune is still classified as a human / Shinso vampire hybrid, at least until we see him being affected by vampire weaknesses or needing blood to survive, since in my opinion, only those two things could signify that Tsukune has fully lost his humanity, and if that doesn't happen then I, would still consider Tsukune as a Shinso vampire / human hybrid.
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Old 2011-06-21, 11:39   Link #20354
Shinso Tsukune
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No no no, the Shinso/Youkai is for his monster type at the wikia page, it's not what you think. The Shinso part refers to his Shinso power, blood and form (that we have seen so far all the way up to the point of the modification ritual). The Youkai part refers to his newly reborn youkai body that he has, didn't mean him actually being a Shinso/Youkai.

Touhou did say that Tsukune's body has been reborn, and this is true, however, the only "human" parts that Tsukune has left is his linaege and mind, while his physical body is a artificial youkai body, his mind and linaege AKA his humanity remains, i agree with you on that one.
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Old 2011-06-21, 11:53   Link #20355
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Youkai is still a broad category. Let's just leave it at that.
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Old 2011-06-21, 13:54   Link #20356
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Yes, Tsukune definitely has more stamina, strength, speed, power, than even Akua does, this was made clear when he was under the control of his Shinso blood during the ritual, now with his Shinso blood resealed, she will indeed be a difficult opponent for him to face, but with a youkai body now, Tsukune will definitely be able to fight at higher levels, than when he was human.

I also agree that a Jigen-Tou of his own would allow him to be able to fight on equal grounds with Akua, considering all of her fighting is centered around Jigen-Tou anyway, and that right there is her weakness, but by the time they encounter and fight, Tsukune will already know how to block Jigen-Tou and he will have the advantage over Akua, if she doesn't use any others means to fight, however, i don't know weather or not Tsukne will still learn Jigen-Tou, but it's still a possibility.
Hrm, I didn't notice that about Akuha, maybe because I was too busy raging over the fact that she got everything she wanted and the group just had to eat it. Silly me.

But does Akuha really have low stamina, or is it she just wears herself out quickly spamming the Jigentou? I'd always hoped it had a weakness, and in chapter 41 it was implied that it does.

http://3.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/1...e_ii_41_12.jpg

http://4.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/1...e_ii_41_23.jpg

Fuhai could not use the Jigentou is his elder form (not safely anyway), which means it requires a lot of energy. And when used as frequently as Akuha does, I can see how she could get winded quickly. As you said, it's one of her weaknesses. Not to mention being an overachiever. I am really looking forward to her downfall, and may Tsukune be the man to bring it about. Until then...
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Old 2011-06-21, 14:15   Link #20357
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Well, while I agree that Tsukune can't be called a normal human anymore, but I would say that even after Tsukune's latest transformation, Tsukune's body has still partially retained it's humanity, since if he had been a Shinso / youkai hybrid like you think Shinso Tsukune, Tsukune would be affected by the weaknesses of a Shinso vampire, and would need blood to survive, and we haven't seen anything like that happening to Tsukune. After all, the only reason why Tsukune's body is still immune to vampire weaknesses and doesn't need blood to survive, is because his current body still physically retained a part of it's humanity.

Furthermore why do you think that HTsukune is a Shinso / youkai hybrid, if the case is the human modification ritual then I think you are mistaking something, since any kind of ayashi can learn youkai techniques, it's just that the method used to make Tsukune learn them has been a bit unusual due to Tsukune, not having enough time to learn ayashi techniques using the normal way of learning.

In other words, to me Tsukune is still classified as a human / Shinso vampire hybrid, at least until we see him being affected by vampire weaknesses or needing blood to survive, since in my opinion, only those two things could signify that Tsukune has fully lost his humanity, and if that doesn't happen then I, would still consider Tsukune as a Shinso vampire / human hybrid.
Vampires dont need blood to survive in this series, it's just an instinctual reaction.
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Old 2011-06-21, 15:09   Link #20358
Shinso Tsukune
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Hrm, I didn't notice that about Akuha, maybe because I was too busy raging over the fact that she got everything she wanted and the group just had to eat it. Silly me.

But does Akuha really have low stamina, or is it she just wears herself out quickly spamming the Jigentou? I'd always hoped it had a weakness, and in chapter 41 it was implied that it does.

http://3.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/1...e_ii_41_12.jpg

http://4.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/1...e_ii_41_23.jpg

Fuhai could not use the Jigentou is his elder form (not safely anyway), which means it requires a lot of energy. And when used as frequently as Akuha does, I can see how she could get winded quickly. As you said, it's one of her weaknesses. Not to mention being an overachiever. I am really looking forward to her downfall, and may Tsukune be the man to bring it about. Until then...
Because she is a vampire, Akua can exert lots of stamina, this is no surprise, but even vampires have their limits, since Jigen-Tou is a highly advanced and secretive technique invented by none other than Touhou himself, it has lots of energy requirements to perform the technique itself, Akua tired herself out by using the technique so much during her fight with Ling-Ling Wong, while her hand to hand combat is above Touhou's, his knowledge and mastery of Youjutsu is far above Akua's own, even at full power, she wouldn't have stood a chance against him anyway.

The reason why Touhou had to use his own lifeforce energy to compensate for his lack of youki was because he had injected Tsukune with a tremendous amount of youki through the needles, which tired him out.

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Vampires dont need blood to survive in this series, it's just an instinctual reaction.
I agree, because of lack of blood, it will just weaken vampires, it's not needed to live.
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Old 2011-06-21, 17:53   Link #20359
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Speaking of blood sucking. We do not see Kokoa running after Tsukune's neck. Though she did lick his blood. O_O

As for Tsukune race...well he should be hybird by now, though I think there is need to have 2 separate Tsukune's in the Wikia since in the first season manga he is still human, though here at SII manga with this kind of metamorphosis that needs to be in a new category of a hybird, since he's still partially awake like he said in that berserk vamp/ghoul form.
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Old 2011-06-21, 20:59   Link #20360
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The Jigen-tou technique does require a lot of energy. Vampires are perfect for learning it because of their own massive energy reserves. It also depends how much the technique is being used and what it's being used for. Even when she was a child, Akua used the Jigen-tou primarily focused around her hands, which along was considered a feat in of itself. Now she can basically phase her entire body out using the technique, which undoubtedly eats up much more energy than just using it around her hands as she likes to do. She was spamming it already when she fought against the Tongs (phasing out of the fire attack, then attacking the Tong family directly, phasing through the wall to get to the gang, fighting Jigen-tou to Jigen-tou against Ling Ling, phasing out just in time of Ling Ling's uzi and 'suicide attack') and then she decided to mimic Fuhai's long range version, which probably nearly drained her completely.

And I think we should wait at least two more chapters before we try and clarify exactly what Tsukune needs to be labeled as of now.
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