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Old 2011-06-20, 12:15   Link #1861
Lost Cause
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsenshi View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again: There wasn't a fate gruesome enough for Rolo.

Simply put, Rolo saw Shirley as someone who would get between himself and Lelouch so he removed her from the situation in the way he found most expedient: he killed her. Shirley, who's motivation was to help Lelouch, was killed because some whiney, angsty, teenage brat with an inferiority complex found her before she found Lelouch.

To put it even simpler: Shirley was the only person who could have stopped Zero Requiem from happening. Because Rolo killed her before she had a chance, that makes Rolo just as guilty as Lelouch for all the misery and death it caused. With considerably less excuse.
While I agree that Shirley's death was paticularly gruesome, and that Rolo would have done the same to Nunnally if he had the chance (or anybody else who got between him and Lelouch). The thing about Shirley actually being able to stop the Zero Requiem is an interesting thought! Do you think she would have shot Lelouch over the death of her Father, or joined his cause?
As for the rest of your post; Respect others views! We all have the right to say what's on our minds here, and if some one wants to hate a character in an anime so be it! I loved Shirley, and hated Rolo for what he did! But that doesn't mean I'm going to go out if my way bash a Shirley hater for his/her views!
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Old 2011-06-20, 14:25   Link #1862
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Actually, Rolo killed Shirley because she uttered the name of the person whose existence he wanted erased: Nunnally. Hence, he snapped and killed her. Let's not forget that he actually listened to her right before that.

As far as Shirley's death leading to the Zero Requiem, it was a factor, but not the only one. As of R2 16, for instance, Lelouch still looked to be well on track of fulfilling his initial plan of rescuing Nunnally and overthrowing Britannia with the announcement of the UFN formation. It was really 19 where things took a turn for the worse, with Nunnally's apparent demise, and last, but definitely not least, the Black Knights' betrayal, the latter caused by Schneizel's suspicious testimonies, and Ohgi's gullibility that led him, along with Villetta, in leading the charge against Lelouch. Note that right before the betrayal that Kallen's reappearance gave him a final wind before the Black Knights had their guns set on him.

Now I don't normally refer people to fanfics, but I recommend checking out an ongoing one called Changing Course, a what if scenario where an OC saves him from the execution rather than Rolo, and helps reunite him with Nunnally right afterwards, pretty much averting the Zero Requiem, and instead leading into a meeting between the remaining Britannians and everyone remaining in the Black Knights and the UFN.
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Old 2011-06-20, 15:18   Link #1863
lightsenshi
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You're probably correct about the reasoning but I still stand by my premise. If Rolo hadn't killed Shirley, then Zero Requiem wouldn't have happened. (Yes, I know it's a 'fairy tale story ending', which is why I'd never happen.)
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Old 2011-06-20, 15:59   Link #1864
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Same goes for Nunnally being feared dead though.
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Old 2011-06-21, 21:47   Link #1865
lightsenshi
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Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
The thing about Shirley actually being able to stop the Zero Requiem is an interesting thought! Do you think she would have shot Lelouch over the death of her Father, or joined his cause?
My opinion being that Shirley actually could have talked Lelouch out of it. To being a wiser and more gentler ruler. Love does tend to have strange effects in anime.
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Old 2011-06-21, 21:49   Link #1866
azul120
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Yeah, that is true.

Shirley would have been another thing that would have helped keep him from the Zero Requiem.

BTW, who's that in your avatar? I'm guessing she's from Claymore.
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Old 2011-06-21, 22:47   Link #1867
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BTW, who's that in your avatar? I'm guessing she's from Claymore.
Yup. Windcutter Flora.


Needless to say, Shirley as Empress would have proved to be an interesting dynamic all in itself.
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Old 2011-06-22, 00:13   Link #1868
Roloko vi Britannia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsenshi View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again: There wasn't a fate gruesome enough for Rolo.

Simply put, Rolo saw Shirley as someone who would get between himself and Lelouch so he removed her from the situation in the way he found most expedient: he killed her. Shirley, who's motivation was to help Lelouch, was killed because some whiney, angsty, teenage brat with an inferiority complex found her before she found Lelouch.

To put it even simpler: Shirley was the only person who could have stopped Zero Requiem from happening. Because Rolo killed her before she had a chance, that makes Rolo just as guilty as Lelouch for all the misery and death it caused. With considerably less excuse.
Well it was her own fault. Besides what idiot just runs into a building that has a suspected terrorist in it? Thats right a dumbass so she got what was coming to her. She could have talked to Lelouch later that night or the next day, but no she decided to run into a building which basically signed her own death warrant. So she was killed by her impatience and stupidity.

Besides if Rolo were not there and she wouldn't have died she would have died in another way later on in the series I grantee it cause she was always getting into everything. =/
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Old 2011-06-22, 00:38   Link #1869
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: C'mon, you're the Rolo fan here--you should be the last person I need to remind of that pathetic rag's character. Where it was had nothing to do with it--the one and only thing which 'caused Shirley's death was the delusional little shit's desire to erase anything to do with the name 'Nunally'. If Rolo had met Shirley at any other time or place, he would've tried to kill her there anyway. Since the 'suspected terrorists' you're talking about were the very Black Knights Shirley was trying to join, the only thing remotely dangerous about Shirley's course of action was that (as she had no way of knowing) there was a psychotic little murderer loose amongst their ranks.
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Old 2011-06-22, 02:59   Link #1870
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia View Post
Well it was her own fault. Besides what idiot just runs into a building that has a suspected terrorist in it? Thats right a dumbass so she got what was coming to her. She could have talked to Lelouch later that night or the next day, but no she decided to run into a building which basically signed her own death warrant. So she was killed by her impatience and stupidity.

Besides if Rolo were not there and she wouldn't have died she would have died in another way later on in the series I grantee it cause she was always getting into everything. =/
My god the things your mind will delude you into believing when you're trying to defend a terrible character and scorning a respectable one.

As Sol said, it doesn't where it was, Rolo would've killed her all the same regardless of the location once she brought up Nunnally. Now as for her running into the building, was it smart? Well, no, not exactly, but she did it because she wanted to help Lelouch, and thus is indicative of the love and devotion she had for him. I mean, seriously, if a person drove out to the store to pick up something for a loved one but then was killed by a drunk driver in a traffic accident, would you say, "Well, it's their own darn fault."

Oh yeah, and she would have died eventually because she was "getting into everything." What does that even mean? I think most of the rest of the cast of Code Geass were "getting into" a lot more than Shirley and most of them got off pretty well.

Now let me just say this; you were correct earlier that this is not a Shirley lovers thread. In fact, that's the last thing I want this thread to turn into is some kind of hugbox where outside and negative opinions are not welcome. If you have a beef with Shirley, by all means, state it. But when you start spouting bullshit like this, I'm gonna call you out on it.
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Old 2011-06-22, 12:13   Link #1871
azul120
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Exactly. This is pure Ron the Death Eater/Draco in Leather Pants territory right here.

Sol is right. If someone realized one of their loved ones was in a burning building and went in after them, would you call that person stupid? Most would lean towards hero.

The only thing that led to her death was her unawareness towards Rolo's seething hatred of Nunnally. But I guess you've blocked that little detail out of your head. I know, because my last post to state as much was on this very page.

You're free to like or hate whoever you want, but when it's for illogical, unfactual or even in some cases, downright petty reasons, be prepared to be called out on it.
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Old 2011-06-22, 21:10   Link #1872
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia View Post
Well it was her own fault. Besides what idiot just runs into a building that has a suspected terrorist in it? Thats right a dumbass so she got what was coming to her. She could have talked to Lelouch later that night or the next day, but no she decided to run into a building which basically signed her own death warrant. So she was killed by her impatience and stupidity.

Besides if Rolo were not there and she wouldn't have died she would have died in another way later on in the series I grantee it cause she was always getting into everything. =/
Doesn't this situation mirrored that of Shirley x Maul from Season One?



Recall how he was obsessed over C.C. while Rolo was obsessed over Lelouch? Shirley was always in the middle of that desire. Thus, she gets killed. Although her death was a plot device for the Zero Requiem, which was the only unchanged part of the story. It was about getting to the end of the story as quickly as possible, like this plot technique:


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Old 2011-06-22, 22:54   Link #1873
azul120
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
Doesn't this situation mirrored that of Shirley x Maul from Season One?



Recall how he was obsessed over C.C. while Rolo was obsessed over Lelouch? Shirley was always in the middle of that desire. Thus, she gets killed. Although her death was a plot device for the Zero Requiem, which was the only unchanged part of the story. It was about getting to the end of the story as quickly as possible, like this plot technique:

Shirley only got in the middle of that desire when she mentioned the name of the person who posed a threat to Rolo's relationship with Lelouch: Nunnally. And that was because Rolo was so possessive over Lelouch.

And somehow I don't think they really reached that conclusion logically at all. The problem was putting a death sentence on Lelouch so soon in advance with no real plan. So much so that the leading circumstances, which also included Villetta once again being a selfish/shortsighted contrarian and Oghi being a nimrod, were first rate Wall Bangers, especially since those two received the most undisputedly happy ending of the series.
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Old 2011-06-23, 23:56   Link #1874
Roloko vi Britannia
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
lol I remember that scene the first thing that came to mind was Harry Potter. xD Emperor Rocket FTW.
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Old 2011-06-29, 15:02   Link #1875
darthfury78
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Shirley only got in the middle of that desire when she mentioned the name of the person who posed a threat to Rolo's relationship with Lelouch: Nunnally. And that was because Rolo was so possessive over Lelouch.

And somehow I don't think they really reached that conclusion logically at all. The problem was putting a death sentence on Lelouch so soon in advance with no real plan. So much so that the leading circumstances, which also included Villetta once again being a selfish/shortsighted contrarian and Oghi being a nimrod, were first rate Wall Bangers, especially since those two received the most undisputedly happy ending of the series.
Nothing in Code Geass R2 made any sense at all, actually. The creators were only concerned about finishing the story as quickly as possible. And a lot of unintended changes were made to the second season due to the early timeslot change from its original late night schedule to the weekend primetime 5PM lineup. Rather than retain the original format, it was reset to what it was in season one to make it easy for the new viewers to follow the story. Too bad it only added a lot of unresolved issues that was also left out in the first season(which was planned to be resolved in the original version of season two).

That is why I feel that Code Geass R2 is a lot like the first season when compared alongside each other. Everything about the second season came too fast, too soon, like the Lelouch's death. Thus, the revised version of Code Geass R2 was about ending the life of Lelouch to bring about the vision that he had about a kind and peaceful society for his sister Nunnally.
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Old 2011-06-29, 17:30   Link #1876
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I'll take my explanation over to the Generic Discussion thread.
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Old 2011-09-19, 16:20   Link #1877
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia View Post
Well it was her own fault. Besides what idiot just runs into a building that has a suspected terrorist in it? Thats right a dumbass so she got what was coming to her. She could have talked to Lelouch later that night or the next day, but no she decided to run into a building which basically signed her own death warrant. So she was killed by her impatience and stupidity.

Besides if Rolo were not there and she wouldn't have died she would have died in another way later on in the series I grantee it cause she was always getting into everything. =/
Shirley's death was meant to accelerate the plot of the story, also know as Zero's Requiem. And Lelouch took responsibility for her death. Her death was in a similar fashion as Euphemia: The same gunshot wound.
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Old 2011-09-21, 23:23   Link #1878
Roloko vi Britannia
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
Shirley's death was meant to accelerate the plot of the story, also know as Zero's Requiem. And Lelouch took responsibility for her death. Her death was in a similar fashion as Euphemia: The same gunshot wound.
Really? I didn't notice since I was too busy being happy.

I thought Euphie's was in the chest while Shirley's was in the stomach....
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Old 2011-09-22, 19:12   Link #1879
ginran
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I'm not sure the actual spot was the same, but it was a gunshot either way. Shirley's death mirrored Euphie's death in other ways too though, one of the major ones being that they were both characters who were among the ones furthest from deserving what happened to them. Although Euphie's was a tragic accident on Lelouch's part and Shirley's was being murdered.

This has probably been said many times before, but Shirley died for wanting to help the man she loved...I really doubt the writers wanted anyone seeing that as a good thing. I mean opinions are opinions...but she never did anything to deserve that. I can't see how a girl that was willing to be strong and act out to help someone she loved was so awful. She acted on impulse going into that building and the first person she ran into shouldn't have been a threat to her since she was always kind to him. She had the best intentions in her mind...But we know how that ended, sadly.

And, I did find Rolo's death sad. Not gonna lie. But I hated that he did that to her.
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Old 2011-09-22, 20:59   Link #1880
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There's a general agreement that both are tragic characters. Shirley's death, while ultimately sad and heroic, served primarily to advance the plot. Nothing more.
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