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Old 2011-06-24, 07:50   Link #261
Snork
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The question in my mind is Yuma. Did anyone else think it was odd that she was so underplayed? Kyubey practically salivated over her (until he caught wind of Madoka), and she's not only powerful but she snapped the other girls out of their shock/despair like it was nothing.
Until Vol 2 came out, I still had suspicions that she might be related to WN somehow.
Yuma is apparently an efficient cleric and a capable Puella Magi (although I've yet to figure out WTQB she fights with ). Her power may be explained by the amount of grief she carries, and we know this amount is high.
I consider her speech in ch 6 as her main highlight in the manga. That's a Puella Magi to handle the truth for you. If only she was around in TL6, during Sayaka's arc...
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Old 2011-06-24, 10:06   Link #262
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Until Vol 2 came out, I still had suspicions that she might be related to WN somehow.
Wait, did something happen in volume 2 to negate that? Didn't it end well before WN appeared? She could still theoretically be related to it. Granted, I prefer the explanation implied by the Madoka Magica manga for WN more.
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Old 2011-06-24, 10:42   Link #263
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They're probably assessing future Madoka projects (and you know there will be some) with more thought. The three manga spinoffs felt rushed because they most likely were rushed, to cash in quick in case the anime didn't sell as well as expected/hoped for. I fully expect that Kazumi will be given more attention in light of things due to its slower release schedule (monthly).

On the topic of Oriko itself....well, Madoka dying was inevitable. Actually, mission accomplished for Oriko. Despite Homura's best intentions Oriko knew the truth, that Madoka would be contracted and she would turn into Gretchen no matter what. Kyubey would find Madoka, it was just a matter of time.

The question in my mind is Yuma. Did anyone else think it was odd that she was so underplayed? Kyubey practically salivated over her (until he caught wind of Madoka), and she's not only powerful but she snapped the other girls out of their shock/despair like it was nothing.

Outside of that, the only other irregularity was Kirika. She now holds the record for "girl with the longest time between busted Soul Gem and turning into a Witch". Sorry Sayaka and Madoka. I guess it's now canon that a Soul Gem that has turned black doesn't mean immediate Witch, for some girls. Could be plot armor I guess.

What I take from Oriko is that there exists three timelines that Homura never found:

1. A timeline where Madoka never contracts, ever, but doesn't die.
2. A timeline where she does, and doesn't die, become a Witch, or a Goddess.
3. A timeline where she does, becomes a Goddess, and returns.

We've seen the other three variations now:

1. She never contracts, and dies anyway.
2. She contracts and dies or becomes a Witch.
3. She contracts, becomes a Goddess, and ceases to exist to any mortal but Homura.

We've also never seen a timeline where bringing girls back from being a Witch was actually possible.

So outside of various stories of Homura failing, such as this one, and slice of life alternatives, there's still plenty of story telling left in the Madoka universe, not including stuff not directly related such as Kazumi.
That one's strange you know because technically her Ascended form transcends all timelines so there can only be one.
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Old 2011-06-24, 11:07   Link #264
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Wait, did something happen in volume 2 to negate that? Didn't it end well before WN appeared? She could still theoretically be related to it. Granted, I prefer the explanation implied by the Madoka Magica manga for WN more.
Supposed to end well because of alot of allies, but Oriko persisted to kill Madoka at any cost that she used a shard from Kirika's witch form and throw it at her, which she successfully pierced her chest and died. It did not end well...

Apparently there is no proof that Yuma's witch form=WN, because of the gears. It will take a long time to explain that part zzz
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Old 2011-06-24, 11:15   Link #265
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Supposed to end well because of alot of allies, but Oriko persisted to kill Madoka at any cost that she used a shard from Kirika's witch form and throw it at her, which she successfully pierced her chest and died. It did not end well...

Apparently there is no proof that Yuma's witch form=WN, because of the gears. It will take a long time to explain that part zzz
How does any of that negate the theory? Madoka dying does not cause Walpurgisnacht to not appear. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
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Old 2011-06-24, 11:35   Link #266
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Supposed to end well because of alot of allies, but Oriko persisted to kill Madoka at any cost that she used a shard from Kirika's witch form and throw it at her, which she successfully pierced her chest and died. It did not end well...
Oriko's last vision showed that Homura would fail, though. I already mused about this problem - Homura is locked on protecting Madoka by defeating WN without her help, thus escaping this groundhog month... but she doesn't even seem to consider what will happen next. And Kyuubey's still around...

Quote:
2. A timeline where she does, and doesn't die, become a Witch, or a Goddess.
Sunny Day Life?

As to WN... I really don't know. The gears are described in the profile as "symbol of eternity" or something, but we don't know if the witch herself actually existed for a long time (it's a known fact that several magical girls have to fight her together - meaning these attempts were successful?). We also have little info on the actual logic of witch design (Octavia is more or less hinting, but good luck deciphering Madoka and Kirika's witch forms), so for all we know, gears might pop up from a thousand of reasons. The same with "stage" quirks and all. The only hook we got in PMOM was that WN's nature of helplessness matched Yuma's mindset just dandy (plus her witch form might have a recovery ability even better than Sayaka's - yeah, I'm thinking ep 11 here). But that's just speculah.

It's unknown whether Magica Quartet are even GOING to let us know about WN's origins. But if we hope to derive it from the existing spin-offs, then there's still Kazumi & Co. They have about as many chances to be related as Yuma.

By the way... Oriko makes the last shot with her soul gem broken? I thought it was a quicker death... Apparently not.
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Old 2011-06-24, 14:30   Link #267
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By the way... Oriko makes the last shot with her soul gem broken? I thought it was a quicker death... Apparently not.
Actually, it seems that when Kirika was defeated, part of witch form was still left behind, and Oriko used a broken piece of Kirika's form to shoot Madoka.



If you look at this page closely, there's one panel that shows what seems to be a chunk of Kirika's form stuck on the roof of the barrier and shard breaking apart from it.
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Old 2011-06-24, 15:53   Link #268
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I get the chunk part (although it's interesting how the witch didn't disappear completely at once). What I'm talking about is that I expected Oriko to die instantly as her soul gem was shot. After all, both Mami and Kyouko in TL3 give an impression of that. Oriko, however, retains her consciousness and magic for some seconds. Apparently souls don't leave the "jar" immediately.
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Old 2011-06-24, 16:47   Link #269
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Ah yea that's true. Maybe Homura didn't completely destroy Oriko's soul gem like how Kirika's soul gem was partially cracked. And when Oriko used all her magic in that one shot, she finally died. Or maybe she had a moment of plot armor.
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Old 2011-06-24, 21:41   Link #270
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I get the chunk part (although it's interesting how the witch didn't disappear completely at once). What I'm talking about is that I expected Oriko to die instantly as her soul gem was shot. After all, both Mami and Kyouko in TL3 give an impression of that. Oriko, however, retains her consciousness and magic for some seconds. Apparently souls don't leave the "jar" immediately.
i completely disagree.Mami did try to shoot at Homura even though the soul gem is destroyed. Just missed
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Old 2011-06-24, 22:04   Link #271
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And Kyoko's body didn't revert to normal until a second after hitting the floor.
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Old 2011-06-25, 04:06   Link #272
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i completely disagree.Mami did try to shoot at Homura even though the soul gem is destroyed
I thought it was an aftereffect, since her finger was ready to pull the trigger?

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And Kyoko's body didn't revert to normal until a second after hitting the floor.
True. although such a detail is prone to remain dubious until the BD release
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Old 2011-06-25, 06:49   Link #273
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Actually, it looks like I ended on the wrong side of the debate. My statement was meant to show that the girls' magic lingers for a bit even after the soul gem is shattered. However, I do support the view that the girls are pretty much dead the moment the gem shatters.
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Old 2011-06-25, 16:14   Link #274
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Well, the process can't be reversed, alright. The matter in question was just how long it takes a soul to fade away from the broken soul gem. ^_^
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Old 2011-06-25, 21:29   Link #275
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I thought it was an aftereffect, since her finger was ready to pull the trigger?



True. although such a detail is prone to remain dubious until the BD release
Follows a person's death...normally your hand should be leaving the trigger and the gun should be off your hand already(i think)
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Old 2011-06-26, 05:21   Link #276
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not when you died in the process of pulling it. It's not an uncommon detail in movies, actually.
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Old 2011-06-27, 09:35   Link #277
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Well, the process can't be reversed, alright. The matter in question was just how long it takes a soul to fade away from the broken soul gem. ^_^
Or maybe how strong a person's will to achieve a mission can last.
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Old 2011-06-28, 05:37   Link #278
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By the way, speculahs have it that Oriko simply becomes a witch in other timelines.
and as you might guess, that's also a fertile ground for Walpurgis-themed epileptic trees to grow. As much as I'm cautios about them... we've never seen WN's arrival in the Oriko timeline.
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Old 2011-06-28, 05:51   Link #279
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By the way, speculahs have it that Oriko simply becomes a witch in other timelines.
and as you might guess, that's also a fertile ground for Walpurgis-themed epileptic trees to grow. As much as I'm cautios about them... we've never seen WN's arrival in the Oriko timeline.
Is the witch name called Gertrud?
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Old 2011-06-28, 10:23   Link #280
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Her, too. Although Elsa Maria was mentioned as well. But hey, it doesn't even have to be a known witch - I'm pretty sure Mitakihara houses a greater number than all we were shown so far.
Now, concerning WN=Oriko speculah... Hmmm...
Gears as relation to time and fate: check
Helplessness: check?
Theatrical quirks: er, wait, I give up here.
Also Oriko saw WN in her first vision and said it was her fate. She must have also learnt about the system right then, since instead of shouting "Kyuubey-san, there's a terrible witch due to be born! You gotta do something!" she directly starts tricking him, and keeping him away from the girl destined to become Gretchen (speaking of Kyuubey, this is also the first time we see him openly planning the demise of a magical girl who messed up with his job ).
But whatever witch Oriko was bound to turn into (and you don't need to be a prophet to calculate the odds), it brings a whole load of bitter irony: the poor girl made a cotract to know her fate, but it was actually the contract itself that defined it. Who knows, maybe if she didn't gain an urgent goal of preventing Gretchen's birth, might she have just committed a suicide to change her own fate the quickest way possible? Kyubey sure has a reason for not telling the truth outright even to those already in his grip.
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