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Old 2011-06-20, 15:27   Link #4221
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
"Kenichi, burn this battle into your memory! Remember, you will NEVER be this good!"

Think I'm going to put this series on hold for now, like I did with Bleach. Come back after 100 chapters or so when the story moves forward a bit and Kenichi is doing more than standing around watching nearly every chapter. Hopefully by then, the Masters won't be constantly overshadowing Kenichi's own fights. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with his growth is there was some real, palpable showing that he is growing. For example, in Naruto as he got stronger, you got to see him overcome Sasuke who was always considered stronger, then he gave Kakashi a run for his money before finally surpassing him, the defeat of Pein that others couldn't stop. In HSDK, Miu is still a little better, he still can't even lay a single finger on the Masters. The only thing we have to rely on are people telling us he's getting stronger or him fighting some random dude in a business suit. If he actually came close to maybe landing a punch on Sakaki or Apachai, it would go a long way towards showing that he's actually gotten stronger.
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Old 2011-06-20, 16:39   Link #4222
Mars Mode
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Join Date: May 2011
Sakakis battles are always the best.

I liked how they are going to clash with stances and Ki's so different from each other.
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Old 2011-06-20, 17:52   Link #4223
aliasxn
Eye for an Eye
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
"Kenichi, burn this battle into your memory! Remember, you will NEVER be this good!"

For example, in Naruto as he got stronger, you got to see him overcome Sasuke who was always considered stronger, then he gave Kakashi a run for his money before finally surpassing him, the defeat of Pein that others couldn't stop. In HSDK, Miu is still a little better, he still can't even lay a single finger on the Masters. The only thing we have to rely on are people telling us he's getting stronger or him fighting some random dude in a business suit. If he actually came close to maybe landing a punch on Sakaki or Apachai, it would go a long way towards showing that he's actually gotten stronger.
The hell are you talking about, I haven't seen a character get more overshadowed in a series that has his name on it than Naruto has. Even the main heroine loves the other guy. He did turn into tactical nuke eventually, but it took like 10 rl years to get there, during which time he would get embarrassed by fodder characters. That was how the author would usually introduce new characters, by having them make a complete fool out of him.

Also, I don't see where this coming from. His masters are all monsters who reached the absolute top of their respective martial arts, while Kenichi has only been doing it for a little over a year. Of course he is nowhere near their level of strength, most of the time even other masters don't come close to landing a hit on them. And the way I see it he was never competing with them in the first place, he is competing with the other guys in his class. At least that's how I measure his growth, and I'd say he is doing fine.
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Old 2011-06-20, 18:56   Link #4224
KLGChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliasxn View Post
The hell are you talking about, I haven't seen a character get more overshadowed in a series that has his name on it than Naruto has. Even the main heroine loves the other guy. He did turn into tactical nuke eventually, but it took like 10 rl years to get there, during which time he would get embarrassed by fodder characters. That was how the author would usually introduce new characters, by having them make a complete fool out of him.

Also, I don't see where this coming from. His masters are all monsters who reached the absolute top of their respective martial arts, while Kenichi has only been doing it for a little over a year. Of course he is nowhere near their level of strength, most of the time even other masters don't come close to landing a hit on them. And the way I see it he was never competing with them in the first place, he is competing with the other guys in his class. At least that's how I measure his growth, and I'd say he is doing fine.
And that's the problem. The story is now focused on Yami, all the top Masters... which overshadows Kenichi's own achievements as the story focuses more and more on saving the world and less and less on the disciples. Hard to focus on a characters growth when it means absolutely nothing to the story at large right now. As it is, Kenichi is useless in the war. What should have happened is that there should have been some sort of time skip where Kenichi trains up a bit and maybe becomes at least a regular master class. As it is right now, all he does is stand around standing in awe or nearly getting killed every time the Masters go out to fight.

I understand it's only been a year story time-- and that's an issue. 435 chapters in and barely any time has passed story-wise. It's almost as bad as Bleach.

And despite Naruto being mocked when characters are first introduced earlier on, you still got a sense of palpable growth from him as time went on. Don't know why you bolded the text there and said you didn't know what I was talking about. He started out as a wimp who couldn't touch Sasuke... then ended up beating someone Sasuke couldn't beat, surpassed Sasuke until he got his Cursed Seal, and even then gave him the fight of his life... then the 2nd part came and he and Sakura were able to give Kakashi a run for his money before he went on to actually surpassing him and then saving the village as the hero who defeated Pain (something the entire village couldn't do together), and now he's able to trade blows with the Raikage. It's not like I'm making that stuff up.

Part of the thrill of reading an action manga is watching the student get stronger and eventually surpass the teacher... in HSDK it feels like it will never happen, because there is no real sense that he's catching up to them.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it or like it, it's just what I feel. I enjoy the series, but the lack of progression gets boring for me. It's why I either tend to avoid action mangas or read them in batches. It's sad when I find myself looking more forward to seeing Shigure naked every week than actually caring about the plot.
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Old 2011-06-20, 19:55   Link #4225
aliasxn
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I acknowledged that Naruto improved, I merely pointed out how long it took for it happen. I honestly didn't sense any palpable improvement until his fight with Pein, until then he had been spamming the same 2 moves he had since he was a kid, he was still struggling to land a hit on his opponents, was still going berserk with the Kyuubi, the list goes on. Basically all the problems he had in part one he still had in part two. Being stronger than Kakashi was meaningless at that point, that was the absolute bare minimum he needed to be to even step outside. Who wasn't stronger than Kakashi? And other than a brief time in part one and the last 50 or so chapters, Sasuke was superior to him for the vast majority of the series. All the girls wanted to date him, all the guys wanted a match with him, one of the main villains wanted to be him, his power was/is absolutely ubber and hierarchically superior to Naruto's, he was somewhat effortlessly beating guys that Naruto and his team couldn't, and overall he was the one driving the plot forward. Things were happening in the story because of him and not Naruto.

I get much much more of a sense of improvement in HSDK. He's been improving noticeably from day 1. He is hitting more, getting hit less, and simply fighting his peers on equal footing. In fact, since his fight with Shou and until his fight with Tirawit, I daresay he was flat out overpowering his opponents, no asspull power-ups or zombie-like stamina anymore.
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Old 2011-06-20, 20:16   Link #4226
Fenrir_valindri
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I agree with aliasxn, your really looking at this the wrong way if your expecting a story about a Disciple to accelerate his grown so quickly that he surpasses his Masters part way through the story.

The story is about Kenichi as a disciple, and what he learns from his Masters. Sakaki tells him to watch the fight so Kenichi can learn and get stronger, not to show off how awesome he is. He is ultimately still a teenager and a disciple, you can't have him realistically going up against people who are twice his age and have been training longer then he has been alive. Especially not with 1 year of training under his belt, training from hell that it is.

As for Naruto, he took FOREVER to become a seriously competent character, and spent 95% of the chapters in that manga being overshadowed by just about everyone, not even just primary villains either, many of the side characters completely overshadowed him as well.

and now he is effectively a physical god, and they are STILL going to somehow pull Sasuke being a serious threat to him, due to the fact his eyes are made of 100% plot power.
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Old 2011-06-20, 23:09   Link #4227
Mizuno
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What the hell... we need verification that Griffith is a girl!

Where's Ma Sensei when you need him.
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Old 2011-06-21, 02:20   Link #4228
Battler-kun
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Can't wait to see more.

Just love these moments.
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Old 2011-06-21, 02:44   Link #4229
Merilyn Mensola
I am a Boxer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliasxn View Post
I acknowledged that Naruto improved, I merely pointed out how long it took for it happen. I honestly didn't sense any palpable improvement until his fight with Pein, until then he had been spamming the same 2 moves he had since he was a kid, he was still struggling to land a hit on his opponents, was still going berserk with the Kyuubi, the list goes on. Basically all the problems he had in part one he still had in part two. Being stronger than Kakashi was meaningless at that point, that was the absolute bare minimum he needed to be to even step outside. Who wasn't stronger than Kakashi? And other than a brief time in part one and the last 50 or so chapters, Sasuke was superior to him for the vast majority of the series. All the girls wanted to date him, all the guys wanted a match with him, one of the main villains wanted to be him, his power was/is absolutely ubber and hierarchically superior to Naruto's, he was somewhat effortlessly beating guys that Naruto and his team couldn't, and overall he was the one driving the plot forward. Things were happening in the story because of him and not Naruto.

I get much much more of a sense of improvement in HSDK. He's been improving noticeably from day 1. He is hitting more, getting hit less, and simply fighting his peers on equal footing. In fact, since his fight with Shou and until his fight with Tirawit, I daresay he was flat out overpowering his opponents, no asspull power-ups or zombie-like stamina anymore.



I agree 100%..,people need to remember that he is training for a short time, not since he was little, and he is not a prodigy like Miu, or some of the other disciples ..
and he improved so much .. from the 'start of the .series.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
What the hell... we need verification that Griffith is a girl!

Where's Ma Sensei when you need him.

I knew it was a girl from the first moment i saw her lips .. ..
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Old 2011-06-21, 03:11   Link #4230
Mizuno
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The real Griffith has lips like that too... in other words, we need to see the goods.

Wonder if she's already dead though, Akira shows no mercy to martial artists.
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Old 2011-06-21, 03:32   Link #4231
Merilyn Mensola
I am a Boxer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
The real Griffith has lips like that too... in other words, we need to see the goods.

Wonder if she's already dead though, Akira shows no mercy to martial artists.
Yes, i want to' see
Comone Ma Sensei!!you have to arrive as soon as possible!
this is a good question, hope she is not dead..
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Old 2011-06-22, 01:10   Link #4232
Hisoka??
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ki distorting reality? will the superman shake the entire earth when he goes full power?
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Old 2011-06-22, 01:49   Link #4233
Excelion
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Join Date: Jul 2008
I'm personally pleased with the progress in the Kenichi/Miu relationship lately, if we want to talk about progress.

But yeah...slow progress is a recurring trend for mangas. It can take awhile. You just gotta live in the moment instead.

Really looking forward to this fight. A city atmosphere suits them.
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Old 2011-06-22, 02:34   Link #4234
Merilyn Mensola
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Originally Posted by Hisoka?? View Post
ki distorting reality? will the superman shake the entire earth when he goes full power?
I think the earth will explode when the Elder will use all his full power ...
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Old 2011-06-22, 13:31   Link #4235
cloak_and_dagger
Hei aka Li Xiansheng
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kasumigaseki; where contractors dwell.
Age: 26
I tend to think of max power Elder as Kenpachi with SSJ hair.
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Old 2011-06-22, 14:15   Link #4236
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
I tend to think of max power Elder as Kenpachi with SSJ hair.
The 'eyes have already changed
We also miss a change in hair with increasing strength :heh
lacking only, the growth coated red in the body like ss4
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Old 2011-06-22, 14:35   Link #4237
ellifeedn
Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York
That form of ss does not exist. We never speak of it.
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Old 2011-06-27, 16:11   Link #4238
LeaD36
LeaDfactor
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Get a color page - Draw an ASS on the opening page
Epic Win. Bakuman - 1 color page to rule em all anybody?
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Old 2011-06-27, 16:33   Link #4239
Battler-kun
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So far the greatest powerclash between two Super-Masters.

Sakaki's Ki-power should be ranked at a level after Elder and his son.
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Old 2011-06-27, 16:50   Link #4240
NoLongerSane
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
Get a color page - Draw an ASS on the opening page
Epic Win. Bakuman - 1 color page to rule em all anybody?
Lol, just saw the page. For some reason that Sir-Mix-a-Lot song was playing in my head.

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading the chapter.
Spoiler for 436:
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