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Old 2011-06-29, 10:38   Link #161
tomtkp
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Actually I think it is alright that Steins;Gate sold out 11-12k BD copies alone.This figure had even surpassed Index II v5 and other Spring series except Tiger & Bunny.However,what intrigues me is that what happened to Steins;Gate DVD sales figure.Is it that the fans are focusing on the BD version and not DVD,causing DVD to have zero (not possible) or minimal sales to the point that the figure did not even ranked?Or is it that the sales were not being counted yet?
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Old 2011-06-29, 10:46   Link #162
Westlo
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The sales were counted, it's just that it didn't make the Top 100 list so it has sold less than 861 copies on DVD. It could be @ 800 for all we know... we will find out... I'm sure someone will update this thread. As for the extreme ratio it just shows that Steins;Gate has been picked up by otakus only for the most part... as time goes on every show will be like that.. you'll have something in the future that sells a fair bit less than Madoka but break the Week 1 BD record because DVD sales will be dead by than.. sorta like how Madoka only has that record because BD has been getting stronger over the passage of time... compare Macross Frontier's Vol 1 opening week of 22k BD to 18k DVD back than... now would likely be 32/8... by 2013 probably 39.5/0.5...

Last edited by Westlo; 2011-06-29 at 10:56.
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Old 2011-06-29, 10:55   Link #163
Reckoner
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The disparity between blue ray and DVD sales is still quite strange though.
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Old 2011-06-29, 11:02   Link #164
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Hidan will not sell 10k, majority of anime sell the majority of their sales in the first week and have a drop off after the first volume, something like Infinite Stratos being incredibly consistent is the exception. Opening weeks of 29368, 30245, 29955 is incredibly consistent.... look @ Star Driver as a good example.. started around 12k with Vol 1 IIRC and has now fallen down to 7k with Vol 6. Anyway back to Hidan, it will probably sell enough to get a sequel down the track.. with even less budget than the first one...
Star Driver is a special case in itself though. Most anime have more consistency than Star Driver at least, because a bunch of non-otaku bought Star Driver vol 1 for the novelty of it and didn't any subsequent volumes. Straight up late night otaku shows usually are pretty consistent, only dropping 2-3k in sales over all volumes barring a very cheap 1st volume like Yumekui Merry.

Quote:
Don't worry about KyoAni... they'll be fine, worry more about them actually branching out for their usual crap after Nichijou (a small deviation) flopped by their standards.
Definitely...hopefully they don't think this is a sign they should just stick with moe shows forever. Not to say their moe shows aren't good, it just get tiresome to see them poor all their resources and talent into shows that don't really need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtkp View Post
Actually I think it is alright that Steins;Gate sold out 11-12k BD copies alone.This figure had even surpassed Index II v5 and other Spring series except Tiger & Bunny.However,what intrigues me is that what happened to Steins;Gate DVD sales figure.Is it that the fans are focusing on the BD version and not DVD,causing DVD to have zero (not possible) or minimal sales to the point that the figure did not even ranked?Or is it that the sales were not being counted yet?
Steins;Gate outsold Index in BDs, but Index's DVD sales put it above S;G by quite a bit.

As for why S;G's DVDs aren't listed, as Westlo said, they didn't make the Top 100, meaning they sold less than 861 copies. It could be theorized that the reason for this is that Steins;Gate's fanbase is very otaku heavy, like K-ON! and Ika Musume, so the ratio between DVD and BD is very lopsided.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The disparity between blue ray and DVD sales is still quite strange though.
Not really, it just indicates how otaku oriented the show is. That's not to say that no otaku own DVDs, there are just different types of otaku. The crowd that S;G attracts are very techno savvy and stay up to date on all the latest tech, so most of them own BD players.
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Old 2011-06-29, 13:50   Link #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post


You serious man? You do know what the manabi line is don't you?

Kyoto Animation
43064 ** K-ON!
41038 *8 Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
39385 *6 K-ON!!
29146 12 Lucky☆Star
24808 *8 CLANNAD
24346 *6 AIR
19052 *8 Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu ("New Animation")
19884 *8 CLANNAD AFTER STORY
17253 *8 Kanon 2006
14641 *3 Suzumiya Haruhi-chan to Nyoron☆Churuya-san
*8917 *6 Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu
*4833 *7 Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** *5 Sora wo Miageru Shoujo no Hitomi ni Utsuru Sekai (Munto TV)

Everything they've done is above the manabi line except for Munto, and considering most of Munto was the two old OVAs reused that one isn't as a bad a loss as it would appear to be.

They have a K-ON! movie in the works which will probably sell as much as the 00 Gundam Movie.... Also here's a list of TV Sets released as Bluray Boxsets.

1356.6m (34,000 * ¥39,900) - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
*456.7m (12,427 * ¥36,750) - Strike Witches (7,011 + 5,416)
*356.6m (*9,703 * ¥36,750) - Darker than Black
*322.6m (*5,155 * ¥62,580) - Clannad After Story
*310.4m (*4,960 * ¥62,580) - Clannad

*228.4m (*6,214 * ¥36,750) - Eureka Seven

Now as for Nichijou itself the dvds did 924 but the Bluray failed to rank in the top 30, #30 was Aria which did 4000.... so it's possible Nichijou sold 3.5k BD and ended up doing 4.5k for first week... Is that a flop? Well going by KyoAni's lofty standards than of course it is, but it's still making a profit.

Now I'm not a fan of Nichijou and I'm personally disappointed in the direction that Kyoto Animation have gone in... but anyone acting like this is going to hurt them is out of their mind. Out of 13 projects they've had 12 of them been profitable, 10 of them in the "hit" range. They're going to make more money off the K-ON! Movie than 90% of studios will make this year... Movie tickets, merchandise, cd singles, ost, bluray release..

Don't worry about KyoAni... they'll be fine, worry more about them no longer branching out from their usual crap after Nichijou (a small deviation) flopped by their standards... oh KyoAni, when it comes to potential you truly are the Vince Carter of the anime world.
No I don't know what the bloody Manabi line is, although I've had it quoted at me many times over the past 24 hours. Never heard of it and I can only assume it's some magical standard fanboys invented as a gauge for something or other. That's really nice though that Kyoani is considered above it. Good for them...I guess?

I don't see how Nichijou is them branching out of their usual "crap" either. It's pretty in tune with the whole lackadaisical all-female cast slice of life err..."crap" that they've been doing for a while now.
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:04   Link #166
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I think that the Manabi Line is somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand sales, although that's not exactly common knowledge. It's considered a "break even" point for anime DVD/Blu-Rays.

However, I seriously question how applicable it is to Kyoto Animation, since KyoAni doesn't outsource their animation work (last I checked) and hence pays more for it than most other animation studios do.

Most KyoAni works come across to me as high budget affairs, and whatever critiques can be made of Nichijou, its animation quality is very high (please keep in mind here that "animation quality" is not the same as "art style quality", the latter being somewhat more subjective, imo).
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:08   Link #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama
No I don't know what the bloody Manabi line is, although I've had it quoted at me many times over the past 24 hours. Never heard of it and I can only assume it's some magical standard fanboys invented as a gauge for something or other.
Manabi line =Break even point.

Usually around 3k to 4k, though it depends on the project. Low quality anime might have it lower, higher produced higher.

Edit: ninja'd
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:11   Link #168
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They started up an animation school recently didn't they? It would not be out of reason that Nichijou is those students homework. It would cut costs down a bit, and provide both maximum effort and a lot of room to try different things out (lots of different style used in Nichijou).
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:23   Link #169
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
They started up an animation school recently didn't they? It would not be out of reason that Nichijou is those students homework. It would cut costs down a bit, and provide both maximum effort and a lot of room to try different things out (lots of different style used in Nichijou).
Not sure about that reasoning, since that would work better with something like the Young Animators Project rather than a full fledged series.

The show is certainly interesting and appealing visually, but I have to question the high budget given to a comedy show just so they could have fun around with it when they might have made it an ONA, i.e. something like Haruhi-chan, and be released in sketch format rather than full episodes.

Either way, I think that a whole lot of the series problems has to do with it thinking as long as it ups the randomness while having great animation, it could substitute the comedic nature most of the time. The end result is a somewhat amusing comedy at times, but usually it just falls flat.
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:25   Link #170
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So the Manabi Line is basically what I thought then. Frankly that seems like a really narrow definition for a break even point that doesn't consider a whole bunch of other important factors like budget, investment, marketing, advertising, expected profit margin etc.

Cute that it's named after an anime show I guess, but I can never see myself putting any real stock in it.
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Old 2011-06-29, 14:50   Link #171
Arabesque
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Well, you need to remember that Late Night anime mostly get back their revenue from the DVD/BD sales, so that the closest thing we have to an indicator to the financial success of a show. The things you mentioned are returned from the revenues the DVD/BD make (unless you count related merchandise, which is also dependent on the show)

Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean that a show doing badly in sales is branded a failure. World Destruction didn't do all that well, but it didn't really matter since it was more or less an advertisement for the games, so in a way it accomplished its job. Gosick managed to sell twice as much as expected, but not enough to be considered a hit. Gundam 00 didn't do as well as Gundam Seed, but the 00 Gunpla is better selling than Seed's etc.

So it's more of a case of what's the objective of the anime (e.g. generate interest in source material? Start a franchise? Advertisement for merchandise?) that's really the crucial factor (though of course the things you mentioned are all important, but it's not likely that an anime would be funded and advertised to the point where it can't realistically get back it's cost, hence why many use the 3-4k as a guide line to measure success)

It does have value, but it needs to be used correctly.
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Old 2011-06-30, 05:36   Link #172
ahelo
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I'm pretty sad about how Nichijou did. So Japan really thought it was disappointing. . IT DOESN'T DESERVE FRACTALE TREATMENT AT THE VERY LEAST!!

Ao no Exorcist has scary numbers. Noticing how the manga sales are also incredibly rising, there's no doubt the DVDs were gonna do well.

Steins;Gate has about the same sales as Index. Heavily Otaku's I should say and rightly that it gets high sales because it is awesome.

Tiger and Bunny is fujoshi bait. Azazel did really really well, I'm kinda glad it wasn't an "I'm the only one who watched this?" show.
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Old 2011-06-30, 07:29   Link #173
Suzuku
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Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
Steins;Gate has about the same sales as Index. Heavily Otaku's I should say and rightly that it gets high sales because it is awesome.
That's only in BD numbers. Index sales way more in DVDs than Steins;Gate.

And the full top 50 BD list is out. Updating. As expected, Nichijou sold 2.5k BDs.

Shana's blu-ray box set sales have me worried about its waning popularity. I mean, the OVA's sales dropped a lot between vol 1 and 4, but since vol 1 sold 10k I wasn't too concerned and just chopped it up to being that since it's an OVA series a lot of buyers wouldn't keep up with when new vols come out. The DVD box set numbers I just figured were because it was already released in that format so a lot of buyers didn't see any point in buying it, although the fact Index's box set sold so well was strange. The BD numbers are... concerning though. At the popularity Shana was at three years ago it should have sold around DtB's BD box set level. The novel sales have also dropped off a cliff...seems more and more like Shana is a dead series that doesn't have nostalgic appeal. Hopefully the TV series gets things going again...or it could end up selling around 5k per volume.

And looks like previous Madoka vols get a boost every time a new vol comes out.
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Last edited by Suzuku; 2011-06-30 at 07:57.
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Old 2011-07-01, 10:07   Link #174
cyth
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
So the Manabi Line is basically what I thought then. Frankly that seems like a really narrow definition for a break even point that doesn't consider a whole bunch of other important factors like budget, investment, marketing, advertising, expected profit margin etc.

Cute that it's named after an anime show I guess, but I can never see myself putting any real stock in it.
Another reasonable indicator of Manabi line's validity: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-bd/dvds-sales
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:07   Link #175
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Another reasonable indicator of Manabi line's validity: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-bd/dvds-sales
Actually, that suggests to me that the Manabi Line is really between 4,000 and 5,000 instead of between 3,000 and 4,000.

So, if anything, this suggests that the Manabi Line might need to be adjusted 1,000 upwards.
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:17   Link #176
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Actually, that suggests to me that the Manabi Line is really between 4,000 and 5,000 instead of between 3,000 and 4,000.

So, if anything, this suggests that the Manabi Line might need to be adjusted 1,000 upwards.
How you can suggest that from those article.

Aria vol 1 on sell with cheap one episode package, so its closer to 4000ish figure.

The sales of the second volume usually drop a lot compared to the single-episode cheap volume like Hidan no Aria.
e.g. Yumekui Merry
DVD
vol.01 1,102
Blu-ray
vol.01 2,353 2,914 3,744
vol.02 1,658
vol.03 1,776

Edit : ah I mistook your post >_>

Yeah, me too put Manabi Line around 5000ish number.
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:24   Link #177
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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
How you can suggest that from those article.
Um... because Aria sold over 4,000 DVDs on Volume 1, yet that's apparently not good enough?

If between 3,000 and 4,000 is the Manabi Line, then shouldn't over 4,000 sales be good enough?


Quote:

Aria vol 1 on sell with cheap one episode package, so its closer to 4000ish figure.
If that's your argument, then you're pretty much proving Kaioshin's point for him. That the Manabi Line can shift considerably based on other important factors.

If so, the 3,000-to-4,000 standard becomes much more variable, and less useful as a catch-all rule.
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:31   Link #178
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Um... because Aria sold over 4,000 DVDs on Volume 1, yet that's apparently not good enough?

If between 3,000 and 4,000 is the Manabi Line, then shouldn't over 4,000 sales be good enough?
I don't know, it just sounds like he's being dramatic
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:35   Link #179
fertygo
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Um... because Aria sold over 4,000 DVDs on Volume 1, yet that's apparently not good enough?

If between 3,000 and 4,000 is the Manabi Line, then shouldn't over 4,000 sales be good enough?




If that's your argument, then you're pretty much proving Kaioshin's point for him. That the Manabi Line can shift considerably based on other important factors.

If so, the 3,000-to-4,000 standard becomes much more variable, and less useful as a catch-all rule.
Read my edit, sorry bout that. Just stating the packaging of 1st vol of Aria have trend to having cut around >30% in that case the next installment gonna way below the manabi line.

Well bout Manabi Line's itself, the japanese that usually post the sales number said this.

Quote:
The break-even point of a normal TV anime is about 5,000 copies.
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:53   Link #180
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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Read my edit, sorry bout that. Just stating the packaging of 1st vol of Aria have trend to having cut around >30% in that case the next installment gonna way below the manabi line.

Well bout Manabi Line's itself, the japanese that usually post the sales number said this.
No problem, and thanks for the info.

If it's 5,000, then yeah, cyth's link fits that perfectly.
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