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Old 2011-06-30, 15:02   Link #3181
Kitsoru
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Join Date: Jun 2010
LMAO Naina. Ohhh Naina. For some reason her design bugs me more than Milou's does... >__>

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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
I'm working on Glory of the Defeated right now Should be out in a couple days. Anyone wanna help with QC? Kit?
Sure! I'm a grammar nazi. Want me to PM my email?

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2011-06-30 at 15:19.
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Old 2011-06-30, 16:29   Link #3182
Nishiio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
I'm working on Glory of the Defeated right now Should be out in a couple days. Anyone wanna help with QC? Kit?
If you still need help, I'd be happy to look it over. =)
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Old 2011-06-30, 19:27   Link #3183
IkuzeMinna
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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First of all, welcome Kyardan, mirei and Karla.

Those character designs... Variety isn't something they're big on in FT, is it? Seriously, Milliardo Naina looks manlier than her bro. And what's up with "colony leader Heero Yuy"? You'd think he'd be more jovial than our solemn sack of joy turned Gundam pilot. Or maybe he's just really tired of having Katrina interrupt his every sentence..?

Anyway, I'd like to pick up the previous conversation. Sorry to butt in, folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces View Post
Holy crap, see, I knew Sumizawa's been reading too much fan fiction. 90% of the fan fics I have read out there has 2xH married, 6x9 having kids, Wu Fei barely given a role (which bothers me to no end, Wu Fei is awesome!), Trowa and Quatre staying by each other's side for the rest of their lives post EW, a 1xR reunion... and Relena a pathetic, hopeless romantic.
Sturgeon's Law says that 90% of everything is crap. I'd say he's right.

That aside, I don't think Sumizawa has read too much fanfic. If that were the case, Trowa would be mute, Wu Fei would be homophobic and referring to women only by 'woman' (or better yet, 'onna', because it makes total sense for a Chinese to speak Japanese ), Duo would be a loud idiot who'd play pranks all the time and Heero would be either hitting on Relena nonstop or angsting for five thousand pages "what those weird feelings are." Though I can see that last one happening in FT.
No, I think Sumizawa simply hasn't watched GW in a long time, but has watched plenty of other shows. It's the only reason I can think of of why Duo and Wu Fei suddenly have a Goku-Vegeta relationship or why some women are sobbing, lovesick idiots, who'd give up everything for the love of their life. Bah, the latter reminds me so much of Inu Yasha, especially the ending. Anyway.
I think the best way I can put it is that I believe Sumizawa doesn't know GW anymore, he only remembers it. At least, where the characters are concerned. He has a general idea of how they acted but he has forgotten about the details (like the majority of people who were fans back then). He's applying stereotypes.

I realize this is quite the statement to make, so allow me to elaborate.
As I mentioned, the relationship dynamics between Duo and Wu Fei are one of the things that had me raise my brow. Although Wu Fei taunted Duo in the series it was never in a hostile manner. So I was quite surprised about the whole "I never considered you a friend" thing. Not to mention that Kathy describes them as bickering kids.
Then there's Heero. The entire circumstances about him being frozen don't add up to me. He said he wouldn't kill anymore at the end of EW. Why on Earth would he agree to be further used as a 'weapon' then? What became of "I will survive!"? Not exactly living as an ice block, is he? That's what bothers me most about him in FT. At the end of the series he had stopped seeing himself as expendable. He wanted to live. And at the end of EW he wanted to live a life without killing. And now Sumizawa tells me he froze himself? To kill people? wtf.
Next one would be Duo. *sigh* What did he do to him? The guy grows up on the streets, loses his family twice, survives a war and still walks around with a smile on his face, albeit with a very cynic streak. And now Sumizawa expects me to believe that in FT he's turned into an self-pitying, unreliable bastard? What? The one who fought "so that no one else would have to", who went out of his way to save people in trouble and felt guilty when people suffered because of him suddenly marries the girl he calls his home because he wants to buy a motorbike, sets off into the wilderness without giving a damn about her or anything else and pretty much dumps all his responsibilities (namely a church) on her? What did he smoke?
Though I think Kit said something about having expected something like that. If you could elaborate, I'd be very grateful. Because I really can't see it.
Lastly, there would be the women. GW is one of the very few anime in which males and females are equally badass. All of them. We got soldiers, knife-throwers, guerillas and princesses, who keep their cool even though the very building they stand in is under fire. Now, let's look at FT. Is Angelina badass? No. Is Aoi? Nope. Hilde and Catherine seem badass, though. But they're also crazy. Punching people for not saying hi? Yeah, that's crazy in my book. Did something like that happen in GW? I can't recall an instance. And don't get me started on the whole love business. GW's greatest offender was Noin with counting the days since she last saw Zechs. And maybe Relena for constantly saying Heero's name, if you interpret it that way. But FT is dripping with sap. I know, that's not really an argument but it doesn't do anything to contribute to a GW feeling for the novel either.

In the end, I think that's what I want to say. FT doesn't really read like something related to GW. It doesn't "feel" like Gundam Wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
As for uh... the 'fic', well, there's a reason everyone had that happening. It was easily predictable- everyone knew it was stuff that was going to happen if you took the events in series and manga to their logical conclusions.
Okay, you piqued my interest, Kit. Do tell, 10 years from the series' end, how do you picture the pilots? Actually, this is a question to everyone. What do you think would be the "logical conclusion"? Are the fic stereotypes or FT close to it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
In a situation like that where Heero's going off to die, and with the situation she's in here, you don't think she'd be thinking something like that? And beyond that.... I don't see why it's bad for her to be, as Duo says, sad that the person she loves has to kill her. That IS sad.
I'm with Leave The Pieces on this one. It is sad but as it has been said already, Relena doesn't tear up because of something like that. If it's for the greater good she'll muster up her courage and say "do it". It's what she did as Queen and in EW. If she was sad about anything it was because she believed she failed to achieve her goal, not because her beloved was about to shoot her. At least, that's what I think. The only time we see her cry because of Heero is at the end after Libra blows up, the war is over and Heero is safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Though if anything I like Wufei for his jerkiness.
You'd be surprised by how small the number of people who hate him is by now. Besides, Wu Fei is awesome and I won't have anyone blindly hate on him. Not when you can easily twist him into being either a tragic hero, a tragic romantic or just the plain badass kung fu guy. And although he is jerk, he isn't being a jerk about it. He'll only rub it in your face when you actually do something stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
(Either way this kind of annoys me too because you just know the shippers in denial will point to this and say, 'BUT HEERO NEVER SAID HE LOVED HER!!!'. Because people don't get he's a stoic! He wouldn't confess his love to anybody outright. Sigh.)
To this I only say: "I will kill you." And for the rest of the series and movie you see him rushing to her aid and protecting her all the time. Yeah, Heero is totally a man of his word. It definitely isn't a case of "actions speak louder than words". Or better yet, acting on your emotions.
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Old 2011-06-30, 21:51   Link #3184
Nishiio
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...*slow clap*

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
FT doesn't really read like something related to GW. It doesn't "feel" like Gundam Wing.
I still have this surreal feel when I keep up with this thing and I think you summed it up perfectly. I mean, as mentioned, it's a miracle that they've decided to revive this series. I've been able to see great discussions and meet lots of new/old fans of this amazing series. But at the same time, it's as if they took everything Gundam Wing was and tossed it out the window.

Yes, GW IS a gundam series - mecha, action, explosions, etc. But I really loved the characters and all the development they went through. Relena went from being sheltered and somewhat ignorant to a girl who fought to keep her ideal of peace alive. I felt Heero was more developed in the beginning after reading Episode Zero but he definitely grew by the end of the series. He already valued life but I think he learned to value his own too. For him to decide to become a weapon again is too out of character.

Argh. Way too much stuff to recount but it had great stories and great characters...I don't quite understand how Sumisawa managed to forget all of this. =__=

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post

That aside, I don't think Sumizawa has read too much fanfic. If that were the case, Trowa would be mute, Wu Fei would be homophobic and referring to women only by 'woman' (or better yet, 'onna', because it makes total sense for a Chinese to speak Japanese ), Duo would be a loud idiot who'd play pranks all the time and Heero would be either hitting on Relena nonstop or angsting for five thousand pages "what those weird feelings are." Though I can see that last one happening in FT.
LMAO I've definitely experienced all of those in fanfics, haha. *shudder* Though to be fair, I have read a few damn good fanfics that keeps everyone in character.

On a side note, I never understood why Wufei got all the hate he did. I mean, he was blunt but he had his own ideals about war and peace and I thought he made for a really interesting character. (His past in Episode Zero made me like him a lot more too. Maybe if they had put that in the series...?)


10 years after Endless Waltz? I'm going to go with the best case scenario and pray that the gundams were never remade (as much as I'd love to see that) and that war did not break out every other year. I feel the closing scene of Endless Waltz really made it for me: Relena will continue to promote peace and work with politicians; I feel Heero would either work to protect her or go on living a peaceful life, maybe even try getting a normal job? Duo and Hilde will do fine in their business and I can see children in their lives. I'm not too sure about Wufei and Sally, given Wufei's past I wouldn't shoot the idea down.

Basically...my vision of them 10 years from now is NOT what Frozen Teardrop describes lol.
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Old 2011-06-30, 22:03   Link #3185
Kitsoru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
I think the best way I can put it is that I believe Sumizawa doesn't know GW anymore, he only remembers it.


Sorry dude, but that's one of the most inane things I've heard in this thread. A writer doesn't "forget" their works the way you "forget" a movie you've watched. He might leave, work on other stuff, and come back with a fresh or different outlook or ideas. It's different from say, actors, who usually don't watch the movies they're in; everything originates with the writer, the ideas, the characters, the plot. They don't forget.

Spoiler for Spoiler cuttin' the rest of this for space:

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2011-06-30 at 22:22. Reason: oooook let's answer all this
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Old 2011-06-30, 22:06   Link #3186
Elo the Blue
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Spoiler for Long response to Ikuze's post:
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Last edited by Elo the Blue; 2011-06-30 at 22:37.
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Old 2011-06-30, 22:20   Link #3187
Kitsoru
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Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
To me, a better explanation would be that he simply has more freedom to do what he wants with the characters seeing as he's FT's sole writer. I'm sure he butted heads with the other scriptwriters during GW's production. In addition to expanding the universe, FT is an opportunity for Sumisawa to more of his stamp on the GW universe.
THIS

And there were three scriptwriters? Lol how did I miss this, who were the other two? Or do you mean like, the director and someone else? Since I know Sumisawa quit over creative differences with Ikeda.
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Old 2011-06-30, 22:31   Link #3188
Elo the Blue
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
THIS

And there were three scriptwriters? Lol how did I miss this, who were the other two? Or do you mean like, the director and someone else? Since I know Sumisawa quit over creative differences with Ikeda.
According to Wiki(not the best source I know), there were three official scriptwriters, Sumisawa, Akemi Omode and Katsuhiko Chiba. Supposedly, director Masashi Ikeda wrote a script and someone called Toshifumi Kawase also wrote three scripts in the latter part of the first half of the series.

Anime News Networks "confirms" those names working on GW and it's related works, so I guess the info on Wiki was true.
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Old 2011-06-30, 22:55   Link #3189
Kitsoru
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Ahh, yeah, just went to ANN to look. And Omode did BT, right? So yeah, if Ikeda was both on the scriptwriting team and directing, and Sumisawa was Head Scenario Writer and scriptwriter, I can see how they were butting heads, lol. The Creative Guy and the Logic Guy rarely get along... :B

What else has Chiba worked on? That's the only name that didn't jump out at me... OHHH nm he did BoP. So I guess they all sort of got a manga of their own...
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:02   Link #3190
Elo the Blue
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Ahh, yeah, just went to ANN to look. And Omode did BT, right? So yeah, if Ikeda was both on the scriptwriting team and directing, and Sumisawa was Head Scenario Writer and scriptwriter, I can see how they were butting heads, lol.

What else has Chiba worked on? That's the only name that didn't jump out at me...
Apparently, Chiba wrote the story for BoP. He's also worked on Turn A, Outlaw Star, Inuyasha and Yu-Gi-Oh.
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:15   Link #3191
Kitsoru
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Huh. I wonder if he worked on InuYasha the same time Sumisawa did. Though then again, that show's been around forever so everyone and their mother has probably worked on it >.>;;

Elo, I see you're in Balmer, you going to Otakon?
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:18   Link #3192
Elo the Blue
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Huh. I wonder if he worked on InuYasha the same time Sumisawa did. Though then again, that show's been around forever so everyone and their mother has probably worked on it >.>;;

Elo, I see you're in Balmer, you going to Otakon?
LOL

I want to but I've got some other stuff I'm saving up for. I went to it for the first time two years ago and blew like $160 over the two/three days. Had a blast though.

Will you be going?
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:30   Link #3193
Kitsoru
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LOL

I want to but I've got some other stuff I'm saving up for. I went to it for the first time two years ago and blew like $160 over the two/three days. Had a blast though.

Will you be going?
Yup! Asked because there's going to be a (almost) full Gundam Wing pilotsuit group (I'm the Duo) there this year ;D We will probably hit up the Gundam or Bandai panels.

(If anyone else is going and sees me, feel free to say hi btw)
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:36   Link #3194
Elo the Blue
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Yup! Asked because there's going to be a (almost) full Gundam Wing pilotsuit group (I'm the Duo) there this year ;D We will probably hit up the Gundam or Bandai panels.

(If anyone else is going and sees me, feel free to say hi btw)
Sounds awesome. Will you be posting pictures?
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Old 2011-06-30, 23:41   Link #3195
Kitsoru
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Sounds awesome. Will you be posting pictures?
I'll toss a link here when we get the photoshoot back, sure

I was hoping there would be FT cosplays there this year, but I guess not at least from the sounds of the gathering thread. I'm probably going to try to whip a Jr. up in the Fall though.
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Old 2011-07-01, 04:16   Link #3196
Faerie
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Why... Naina, what has happened? You look like a dude ;_;'

(Scary, too. For a girl. I keep picturing her saying "Objection!!")

That said, could someone please help clarify:
The recent episode with little!Naina who was left with Duo/Hilde was a few years in the past, and since then, uh, something has happened, and this chapter, a few years later (!?) we get Zechs (the real one!??) with Tallgeese, Zechs (fake one!?) with Epyon, and Wufei with Epyon Bai (what?)... doing what exactly, and how do Quaterine, Naina and Mille come into this? x__x How do they even know each other?
(And where is their mum?)
Meanwhile, Relena wants to die.

Wow, glad things have started making sense while I was gone...
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Old 2011-07-01, 05:02   Link #3197
Leave The Pieces
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Response to IkuzeMinna, Kitsoru and Elo the Blue's posts:

Spoiler for So long, it could be a novel.:


I put a lot of effort writing this. So in all honesty, I'd feel bad if one or all three of you went: TLDR on this. But despite that, I wouldn't be surprised if any of you guys did lol so please don't feel like you're obliged to read this. I only felt confident writing it this long because it's a discussion thread anyway.
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Old 2011-07-01, 06:07   Link #3198
Kitsoru
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Inane
Insane
(I know you're ESL, so, I figured I'd clarify that for you. I said inane, which implies more that it's lacking logic than lacking sanity.)
Quote:
I don't see them getting all Hiei and Kuwabara to each other.
I see what you did there.
Anyway, I'm just not surprised by their behavior. In Duo's case, he explains his behavior and how he's felt since the end of EW himself in chapter 8 which is narrated by him (which I know most people haven't read yet, but he does. You'll see). And as for Wufei, Sumisawa goes through the trouble to have Duo explain to Kathy that he's always been like that. Kathy notes this is his usual behavior. I think people would be complaining even more if they were suddenly balanced, mature adults, which they OUGHT to have complained if he had :P They didn't exactly have the most conducive environment to becoming balanced and mature adults (mature is the wrong word because they were all 'mature' in a sense as 15 year olds, being Gundam pilots, but I can't think of a better one atm).
Quote:
But still, it doesn't make sense to me, either. Because if anything, he would've shown this side of him back then--when the war was at its peak and they (the pilots) were getting tossed around to places, confused about who to side with, when life was just hands down ugly, blah.
He was probably too focused on fighting, too busy to let shit get to him then. As I mentioned above, you really need to read Chapter 8. It basically has Duo explaining his own behavior for the entire first section or so, and then he has a conversation with Jr. where he starts waxing poetical about it again. Hopefully Deacon'll release it soon and you'll see what I mean.
As for what I meant, he quoted:
Quote:
The only time we see her cry because of Heero is at the end after Libra blows up, the war is over and Heero is safe.
Which is answering his own question as to why Relena is getting sentimental now. Because she gets sentimental where Heero is concerned- I don't get why this is so difficult to understand?
Honest question, because I'm curious if this has anything to do with it: Are you a guy or girl?
I know it's a gender stereotype but I am honestly curious if males or females are having a harder time understanding Relena's behavior.
Quote:
But you can't blame those who don't see the characters as stereotypes...
Honestly this statement miffs me a little. I do NOT see these characters as stereotypes and I think it's very unfair to cast those who are disagreeing with your opinion of the character writing as doing so.

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2011-07-01 at 06:22.
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Old 2011-07-01, 06:30   Link #3199
IkuzeMinna
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There's so much I want to say right now but I can't because I have to get cellulose thinner to get paint off my pants. So I'm reserving this spot for a lengthy reply. One little thing though.
Quote:
Because she gets sentimental where Heero is concerned- I don't get why this is so difficult to understand?
What's so difficult to understand about this is that is looks like it's the same situation as in EW. Both haven't seen each other for a year and Heero has to kill Relena for the greater good (even if indirectly). But instead of tearing up like in FT, Relena mans up in EW and goes "do it", which shocks Mariemaia.
The scene in FT could be different, of course so I can't really tell yet. As for the example I brought up, it's still different in my opinion because Relena shed tears out of relief, not sadness.
But heck, what am I arguing about anyway. Relena crying really didn't bother me as much as it may sound. There's other stuff I get annoyed by. But more of that later. *runs to store*

EDIT: Well, got the paint off. And the color as well. -__-

Anyway, seems like I got the discussion rolling again. Bold statements tend to do that, haha.
Now, in order for people to understand my point, I guess it's best if I start at the beginning and explain my take on GW first, so that I can build on that as to what expectations I have of a continuation and why FT is, pardon, pissing me off so much. Note that this is only my personal opinion and not intended to aggravate anyone with different views. I'm only voicing my thoughts here.

Spoiler for my very long rambling:


Okay, done. Man, I'm an arrogant, little dork that believes to know the series better than its head writer... Oh well.
By the way, I fried my brain with this. If there's a word missing anywhere or sentences just stop.. indulge me. I'll edit later.

Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2011-07-02 at 06:30.
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Old 2011-07-01, 07:09   Link #3200
Nishiio
AHH IT'S A GUNDAM--*boom*
 
 
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Yup! Asked because there's going to be a (almost) full Gundam Wing pilotsuit group (I'm the Duo) there this year ;D We will probably hit up the Gundam or Bandai panels.

(If anyone else is going and sees me, feel free to say hi btw)
Sweet! It'll be my first time going to Otakon this year so I'm pretty excited. Are you psyched to see Chemistry? =]

I haven't seen GW cosplays in so long! I'll definitely look for you guys this year.
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