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Old 2011-06-09, 21:58   Link #7421
GundamFan0083
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I'll continue this in the fanfiction thread.
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Old 2011-06-11, 21:42   Link #7422
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^ Why? Is it not allowed here?
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Old 2011-06-12, 12:28   Link #7423
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Basically out of courtesy to people who don't want azul120 and I cluttering up the Lelouch thread with fanfiction discussion.

I don't think we'd be breaking the rules, but at the same time we don't want to be rude either.
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Old 2011-06-13, 01:40   Link #7424
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^ Good fellow

When Lulu was testing his geass for its durability, by commanding a girls to put crosses on a wall, did he come to know how long was the geass lasting?
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Old 2011-06-13, 01:45   Link #7425
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The whole idea of having her place crosses on the wall was to test the maximum duration of a command. She never stopped, as far as he knows, so he never found a maximum.
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Old 2011-06-14, 05:18   Link #7426
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^ Meaning it was unlimitedly long? WOW!
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Old 2011-07-01, 07:14   Link #7427
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^ Meaning it was unlimitedly long? WOW!

Maybe, maybe not. During one episode (can't remember which though, though I'm thinking it's when he comes back towards the end of R2) the camera goes past the wall (and I'm pretty sure he was there when it did) and a cross is only half done. Whether this was because Geass stopped working midway or she got pulled out of the school because of things (like it was the end of the first season).

To be honest, I think I'd place my money on it ending. As far as we know, she only did this during the day, and the battles that would have involved the school (which would be a reason to stop) took place at night.

Granted, it's fully possible that he had her do it every 12 hours (or more) as he didn't know much about it at that time. On the flip side though, having it stop right in the middle of it being done? Did she get dragged kicking and screaming from the wall if she was taken away?

Having just recently watched this again, the writers definitely didn't like to be clear on things though... probably not such a bad idea to be honest, it keeps interest in the series over time as people debate things. Even though it can also be pretty frustrating.
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Old 2011-07-01, 12:22   Link #7428
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She was sent back to Britannia. They mention in in the same episode they show the marks. Suzaku's command never wore off, and he had it just as long.
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Old 2011-07-01, 22:14   Link #7429
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^ I guess it'l Lelouch's command

And thank you Cynor for the true thing that happened I din't give much attention to the episode that showed the half mark
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Old 2011-07-02, 01:49   Link #7430
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
She was sent back to Britannia. They mention in in the same episode they show the marks. Suzaku's command never wore off, and he had it just as long.
Before I say anything else, I don't suppose there is a discussion thread here for the Geass Power? Granted we are talking about something Lelouch did, so I guess we're talking about him, but if we really get down into the details about whether it wore off or not then that is going more into the power itself. I guess as the main user of it throughout the series it isn't that wrong to discuss it in his thread though.

Anyways, that said....

I did actually consider that thing about her going back... I read somewhere that that was the reason, and that even away she still tries to follow the order. But I'm not sure how much I really buy that, especially with the saying of still trying to follow it.

The reason? The mark is only Half Finished. Like I said before, was she drug away from the wall kicking and screaming by her family or something? She keeps trying to obey, so does she keep trying to hop a plane every day or something? Obviously it was important to her for reasons they couldn't comprehend or know about, so would it have killed them to let her finish the mark? Now if she did keep trying to get back obviously then they'd have a problem, but regardless it means the mark should have been completed... not left half done.

All throughout the series there are little hints and subtle things going on that help re-enforce or give you clues to things. For example, remember when Nina was "thinking" about Euphemia and Nunnally in and asks if she is ok? Take a look at the table, there is obviously moisture on it (drops are hanging off the edge, so it's not the light). Not that they needed to spell out any more what was going on, but it's an example of that subtle detail and re-enforcement of things. Who is to say the symbol isn't also one?

Now, I'll freely admit Suzaku still having his command hurts the "it fades away" theory, but at the same time you can make an argument for it still without (in my opinion) "reaching for straws".

The girl was one of the first few commands given, and no matter why she stopped it happened about the time of the Black Rebellion, which gives a time frame for length right there. Now, I don't know the dates of things very well, but even without looking closely at the dates Suzaku has had the "Live" command for a longer time, at least up to the final battle with Kallen in R2. Which begs the question, if it does fade then why hasn't Suzaku's?

The easiest to deduce from things is that if a command really resonates with someone they will follow it longer. As much as he sometimes feels like he wants to die, how is he going to carry on changing the system while dead? So even if he doesn't want it, deep deep DEEP down maybe he accepts the command. When he has that battle with the Knight of One Lelouch even comments how he has turned the command into a weapon, so maybe he WANTS to keep the command.

Also, lets not forget that people CAN try to disobey the command... Euphy and Nunnally tried very hard to, even if they couldn't in the end if Suzaku wanted he could try, and that moment of fighting it could be all that is needed for him to actually die since it only activates when he is about to. Maybe he didn't know you could fight it, but it goes to show he isn't as committed to dieing as Euphy or Nunnally were to not doing their commands.

Another possibility (although admittedly this "reaches for straws" a little in places) is that some form of contact with the world of C or Geass re-enforces the command more. Sort of like going to the gym to build muscles, if you don't keep going it fades away. Suzuka didn't have the command on him that long before the year gap in the story, and during that time he was probably in close contact with Geass and the World of C through the Emperor.

Although not through the Emperor in some cases, the same could be said for the other characters we see who have had a long term Geass on them. C.C. was with Nunnally and Lelouch when they went to Japan after their mom's murder, it's plain to see in the first few seconds of the first episode. Who is to say that she didn't keep more tabs on them, I mean it was Marianne's death that caused her to basically give up on the plan... and she knew why Charles sent them away.

If you combine the things above together you also have a plausible explanation for Nunnally regaining her eyesight at the end. I mean lets face it, "her willpower overcame it" is kind of flimsy, and we don't know if she just overcame the blindness or if she regained whatever memories he over-wrote.

The power kept getting re-enforced through contact with C.C. and then Lelouch when he got Geass, so it never wore off. She didn't necessarily have feelings on it either way, and indeed didn't really think anything was wrong, so had no reason to fight the being blind or get any memories back. Then in the events of R2 the commands stops being re-enforced and when she drops the key she has the willpower and conviction to actually fight it and regain her sight.

However, as far as we know it's not possible to disobey (in essence break) a command given by Geass (except by the Geass Cancel ability). Euphy and her were really against the commands he gave, and they still did them in the end. Even when Euphy was dieing and talking to Suzaku she was saying how she couldn't think that he was Japanese. So why was Nunnally able to suddenly break it?

I've heard that maybe it is because the Geass lost power when Charles died, but what about the others he used it on then? Anya and the rest still had theirs going until canceled (see R2 picture drama 25.01) and but did she, or anyone else, ever guess something was going on? When Lelouch reveals himself even Milly is like "whoa, he was a prince the whole time!?" If it HAD weakened you would expect at least her to sometime go "I feel like I should know this..." when he appeared.

Now, I'll admit the timing of it "wearing off" of Nunnally would be fortunate, but it IS a story we're talking about here. "Good timing" like that is a key in every one. But also, maybe it already had and she just never had a reason to open her eyes?

The biggest issue to the above comes from the fact that the bulk of the people who had their memory re-written didn't have close contact besides Nunnally and Anya. His Geass was already at the "two eye" stage though, so maybe his lasted a longer time and we just didn't run into that limit with the others before the Zero Requiem.

Besides the above, and even with the hurt that Suzaku puts on it, the "faded" theory is also sort of supported some by the fact that when C.C. became immortal she was turned upon. The people who loved her no longer did iirc. If it was just that her Geass was turned off and rendered in-effective when she became immortal, then what about all the people that had their memories overwritten like Nunnally and the Student Council? Shouldn't they have regained them when Charles became immortal? But they don't seem to do they?
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Old 2011-07-02, 02:16   Link #7431
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The reason? The mark is only Half Finished. Like I said before, was she drug away from the wall kicking and screaming by her family or something? She keeps trying to obey, so does she keep trying to hop a plane every day or something? Obviously it was important to her for reasons they couldn't comprehend or know about, so would it have killed them to let her finish the mark? Now if she did keep trying to get back obviously then they'd have a problem, but regardless it means the mark should have been completed... not left half done.
She only draws one line each time. Two lines form a plus, one for each brick. It stops at a half-plus because that's when she's taken away.

As to the rest:

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All throughout the series there are little hints and subtle things going on that help re-enforce or give you clues to things. For example, remember when Nina was "thinking" about Euphemia and Nunnally in and asks if she is ok? Take a look at the table, there is obviously moisture on it (drops are hanging off the edge, so it's not the light). Not that they needed to spell out any more what was going on, but it's an example of that subtle detail and re-enforcement of things. Who is to say the symbol isn't also one?
That was painfully obvious. It's right in the foreground. Not a good example of the point you're trying to make. Besides, that notion has already been countered above.

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The easiest to deduce from things is that if a command really resonates with someone they will follow it longer. As much as he sometimes feels like he wants to die, how is he going to carry on changing the system while dead? So even if he doesn't want it, deep deep DEEP down maybe he accepts the command. When he has that battle with the Knight of One Lelouch even comments how he has turned the command into a weapon, so maybe he WANTS to keep the command.
Not only does it outright contradict how his Geass works ("Absolute Obedience"), there is literally no precedent for it.

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Also, lets not forget that people CAN try to disobey the command... Euphy and Nunnally tried very hard to, even if they couldn't in the end if Suzaku wanted he could try, and that moment of fighting it could be all that is needed for him to actually die since it only activates when he is about to. Maybe he didn't know you could fight it, but it goes to show he isn't as committed to dieing as Euphy or Nunnally were to not doing their commands.
Resist, not disobey, and it varies by order. Suzaku cannot. He's obviously tried.

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Another possibility (although admittedly this "reaches for straws" a little in places) is that some form of contact with the world of C or Geass re-enforces the command more. Sort of like going to the gym to build muscles, if you don't keep going it fades away. Suzuka didn't have the command on him that long before the year gap in the story, and during that time he was probably in close contact with Geass and the World of C through the Emperor.
By this logic memory blocks would fade on numerous characters. They don't.

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Although not through the Emperor in some cases, the same could be said for the other characters we see who have had a long term Geass on them. C.C. was with Nunnally and Lelouch when they went to Japan after their mom's murder, it's plain to see in the first few seconds of the first episode. Who is to say that she didn't keep more tabs on them, I mean it was Marianne's death that caused her to basically give up on the plan... and she knew why Charles sent them away.
No, she was not. I don't know where you're getting that from, but she was never near them. She left before they did.

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If you combine the things above together you also have a plausible explanation for Nunnally regaining her eyesight at the end. I mean lets face it, "her willpower overcame it" is kind of flimsy, and we don't know if she just overcame the blindness or if she regained whatever memories he over-wrote.
Charles' Geass doesn't work like Lelouch's does. Different abilities and different resistance.

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The power kept getting re-enforced through contact with C.C. and then Lelouch when he got Geass, so it never wore off. She didn't necessarily have feelings on it either way, and indeed didn't really think anything was wrong, so had no reason to fight the being blind or get any memories back. Then in the events of R2 the commands stops being re-enforced and when she drops the key she has the willpower and conviction to actually fight it and regain her sight.
This also doesn't make any sense. C.C. has been nowhere near her for nearly a year, yet it hasn't wore off. Nunnally only breaks it out of desperation.

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However, as far as we know it's not possible to disobey (in essence break) a command given by Geass (except by the Geass Cancel ability). Euphy and her were really against the commands he gave, and they still did them in the end. Even when Euphy was dieing and talking to Suzaku she was saying how she couldn't think that he was Japanese. So why was Nunnally able to suddenly break it?
Different Geass. Charles does not command obedience. He rewrites memories.

QUOTE=Cynor;3675266]I've heard that maybe it is because the Geass lost power when Charles died, but what about the others he used it on then? Anya and the rest still had theirs going until canceled (see R2 picture drama 25.01) and but did she, or anyone else, ever guess something was going on? When Lelouch reveals himself even Milly is like "whoa, he was a prince the whole time!?" If it HAD weakened you would expect at least her to sometime go "I feel like I should know this..." when he appeared.

Now, I'll admit the timing of it "wearing off" of Nunnally would be fortunate, but it IS a story we're talking about here. "Good timing" like that is a key in every one. But also, maybe it already had and she just never had a reason to open her eyes?

The biggest issue to the above comes from the fact that the bulk of the people who had their memory re-written didn't have close contact besides Nunnally and Anya. His Geass was already at the "two eye" stage though, so maybe his lasted a longer time and we just didn't run into that limit with the others before the Zero Requiem.

Besides the above, and even with the hurt that Suzaku puts on it, the "faded" theory is also sort of supported some by the fact that when C.C. became immortal she was turned upon. The people who loved her no longer did iirc. If it was just that her Geass was turned off and rendered in-effective when she became immortal, then what about all the people that had their memories overwritten like Nunnally and the Student Council? Shouldn't they have regained them when Charles became immortal? But they don't seem to do they?[/QUOTE]None of this supports your theory. C.C.'s Geass didn't wear off when she got the code, and they certainly didn't turn on her immediately. I don't know where you're getting that idea, but it's patently untrue. She was persecuted later, for being immortal.
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Old 2011-07-02, 05:06   Link #7432
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I was rereading this thread and I read the last few messages....
Quote:
None of this supports your theory. C.C.'s Geass didn't wear off when she got the code, and they certainly didn't turn on her immediately. I don't know where you're getting that idea, but it's patently untrue. She was persecuted later, for being immortal.
I thought she was persecuted becoz they thought she killed the nun? where did you get this info? did I miss something???
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Old 2011-07-02, 07:22   Link #7433
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She only draws one line each time. Two lines form a plus, one for each brick. It stops at a half-plus because that's when she's taken away.
Really? I thought that she always drew two... I'll have to take a closer look at the episode later. I was truthfully basing a lot of my thought around the fact I thought it was half finished. Though I'm not sure if it is said directly in the anime or just an interpretation... he just says "make a mark" each day. That may mean one line or two.

Edit: I just went back and took a look... you can plainly see 5 sets of marks (including the one that she finished) so the question becomes at any point did they say something like "a week has passed since the ghetto incident" in or before episode 5. If they did then it's safe to assume each line is one day, as that would be 10 total and you have to figure he probably Geased her around the time he got back. If they didn't then it could still mean either one.

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No, she was not. I don't know where you're getting that from, but she was never near them. She left before they did.
I may be totally wrong in everything else, as again I had a based a lot on it being half done, but I KNOW I'm right in this. It is right in the very first episode of the anime...

Who had the green hair that went down to their waist who you see watching Lelouch and Suzaku climbing that hill at the very start (literally like 30 seconds into the episode it's gone) of Episode 1? It is literally one of the first things you see... An eye opens, it goes to a closeup of a face that has green hair and yellow eyes. Then it cuts to Lelouch and Suzaku climbing a hill and after a few other things pop up it goes wide. Suzaku is helping Lelouch up the hill and there is someone standing there with green hair down to their waist. If that isn't C.C. then who else?

As you said, for the rest....

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That was painfully obvious. It's right in the foreground. Not a good example of the point you're trying to make. Besides, that notion has already been countered above.
With how long they have it on screen I think that it could still be said to subtle. To be honest I didn't notice it the first time I watched the series, but everyone notices different things. Just like the C.C. thing above, which it seems you didn't notice or didn't think of once it had passed. I wasn't kidding when I said by 30 seconds into the episode it's gone. It is REALLY quick, in the first 30 seconds she probably gets 5-10 seconds of screen time.

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Resist, not disobey, and it varies by order. Suzaku cannot. He's obviously tried.
Isn't resisting and disobeying almost the same thing in this case? To be honest I think the difference here is being nit-picky.

They resisted the command because they didn't like it.

or

They were trying to disobey it because they didn't like it.

If they resist it they don't carry it out (ex Nunnally wouldn't hand over the key). If they disobey it they don't carry it out (again, wouldn't hand over the key). Isn't that the same thing? The outcome is the same, Nunnally doesn't hand over the key. The wording is just different on one.

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
By this logic memory blocks would fade on numerous characters. They don't.

Charles' Geass doesn't work like Lelouch's does. Different abilities and different resistance.
I thought of that and presented an idea/theory below. Also, doesn't Charles' Geass not working like Lelouch's help my theory? It doesn't work like his, so if there is a duration it could be different.

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This also doesn't make any sense. C.C. has been nowhere near her for nearly a year, yet it hasn't wore off. Nunnally only breaks it out of desperation.
C.C. may not have been, but who abducted her in the first place? V.V. who is just like C.C. Plus she was probably being held at the palace, where Charles was also. The whole theory behind close contact with Geass re-enforcing it is still valid as just because C.C. is gone her contact with Geass isn't.

Also, think about this... maybe it had broken before and she just never had a reason to open her eyes. I know I said this already (or meant to) but who says I can't repeat things?

"But why didn't she open her eyes before?" you ask? Tell me, if you've lived with something for the last (I think) 8 or 9 years, and didn't realize it had changed, has it really changed? In Nunnally's case, she's been so used to being blind she didn't think about being able to see again, and so remained blind. When she had a true need to, she was able to.

I know Lelouch said something like "broke his Geass out of willpower" but Lelouch is only human and he can only say what he thinks happened. He isn't unbeatable, he can underestimate things/people, and he isn't all knowing. Look at his first confrontation with Cornelia or what happened with Charles at the Thought Elevator.

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None of this supports your theory. C.C.'s Geass didn't wear off when she got the code, and they certainly didn't turn on her immediately. I don't know where you're getting that idea, but it's patently untrue. She was persecuted later, for being immortal.
I never implied (or meant to) they turned as soon she got the code. I truthfully don't remember where I got that information from, maybe I just inferred it from things in the anime. In the end though, I don't think it would mater WHY she got attacked. The point is the village attacked her, no matter if it was killing the nun or being immortal the village still turned on her and didn't love her anymore. Considering she had a lot of people under the Geass of "loving" her, shouldn't they not have if it was still in effect when they learned of the cause?

Unless of course all the people she had Geassed are dead, but considering she was about what, 20, when she got the code and the people she Geassed were about the same age... Even in those days when the lifespan was a lot less, it would have to had taken like 30-40 years for them to all die probably. Thats a long time for them not to notice her not aging... although at the risk of shooting down my own argument if they "loved" her I suppose they would ignore it.

I should really go back and look at the episodes dealing with her past closely and see if the people attacking her are the same you see when she has the Geass is loved. Maybe her being attacked doesn't mean anything and doesn't support my theory, but it's not like her being attacked was a key part anyways.

I did say from the start that the whole re-enforce thing was a little more of a "straw grasp" then the other. You yourself said that Charles' Geass is different, maybe part of that is that his just naturally lasted longer or didn't have a duration. Maybe Lelouch's also lasts forever, as like I said I thought that it was left unfinished

In the end, to be honest I think a lot of my post and points were a bit jumbled and as such suffered for it. This is something I've been thinking on for awhile, and even though at times I said something that could contradict my theory, I had also thought of that and addressed them later in the post. I was trying to keep from jumping around from point to point, so kept on something instead of changing to explaining why it could still work in those situations, and maybe that made it less clear.

Plus it is a huge post (again, thinking on for awhile) and those naturally are harder to read and remember things from.
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Old 2011-07-02, 10:05   Link #7434
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I thought she was persecuted becoz they thought she killed the nun? where did you get this info? did I miss something???
She never mentions anything about being persecuted for killing the nun. She does show images of being burned at the stake and other horrors, ones which wouldn't occur one after another and certainly not for the supposed murder of one reclusive nun.

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Really? I thought that she always drew two... I'll have to take a closer look at the episode later. I was truthfully basing a lot of my thought around the fact I thought it was half finished. Though I'm not sure if it is said directly in the anime or just an interpretation... he just says "make a mark" each day. That may mean one line or two.

Edit: I just went back and took a look... you can plainly see 5 sets of marks (including the one that she finished) so the question becomes at any point did they say something like "a week has passed since the ghetto incident" in or before episode 5. If they did then it's safe to assume each line is one day, as that would be 10 total and you have to figure he probably Geased her around the time he got back. If they didn't then it could still mean either one.
She only draws one downward line, as is evident from the wide angle and the closeup. Also, there's only 6 lines, including the most recent. That's only six days.


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I may be totally wrong in everything else, as again I had a based a lot on it being half done, but I KNOW I'm right in this. It is right in the very first episode of the anime...

Who had the green hair that went down to their waist who you see watching Lelouch and Suzaku climbing that hill at the very start (literally like 30 seconds into the episode it's gone) of Episode 1? It is literally one of the first things you see... An eye opens, it goes to a closeup of a face that has green hair and yellow eyes. Then it cuts to Lelouch and Suzaku climbing a hill and after a few other things pop up it goes wide. Suzaku is helping Lelouch up the hill and there is someone standing there with green hair down to their waist. If that isn't C.C. then who else?
That doesn't mean she was watching them the entire time. She couldn't.

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Originally Posted by Cynor View Post
Isn't resisting and disobeying almost the same thing in this case? To be honest I think the difference here is being nit-picky.

They resisted the command because they didn't like it.

or

They were trying to disobey it because they didn't like it.

If they resist it they don't carry it out (ex Nunnally wouldn't hand over the key). If they disobey it they don't carry it out (again, wouldn't hand over the key). Isn't that the same thing? The outcome is the same, Nunnally doesn't hand over the key. The wording is just different on one.
Temporary resistance is not the same thing as disobedience. They obey, whether sooner or later. It's inevitable.

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I thought of that and presented an idea/theory below. Also, doesn't Charles' Geass not working like Lelouch's help my theory? It doesn't work like his, so if there is a duration it could be different.
Anya's and Nunnally's last for eight years. Any supposed duration is simply wishful thinking/

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C.C. may not have been, but who abducted her in the first place? V.V. who is just like C.C. Plus she was probably being held at the palace, where Charles was also. The whole theory behind close contact with Geass re-enforcing it is still valid as just because C.C. is gone her contact with Geass isn't.
V.V. doesn't live at the palace. He lives in China with the Geass order. No close contact.

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Originally Posted by Cynor View Post
Also, think about this... maybe it had broken before and she just never had a reason to open her eyes. I know I said this already (or meant to) but who says I can't repeat things?

"But why didn't she open her eyes before?" you ask? Tell me, if you've lived with something for the last (I think) 8 or 9 years, and didn't realize it had changed, has it really changed? In Nunnally's case, she's been so used to being blind she didn't think about being able to see again, and so remained blind. When she had a true need to, she was able to.

I know Lelouch said something like "broke his Geass out of willpower" but Lelouch is only human and he can only say what he thinks happened. He isn't unbeatable, he can underestimate things/people, and he isn't all knowing. Look at his first confrontation with Cornelia or what happened with Charles at the Thought Elevator.
If it was already broken she would have opened her eyes on the spot. She breaks it looking for the key, which is why that sudden moment of realization hits her.

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Originally Posted by Cynor View Post
I never implied (or meant to) they turned as soon she got the code. I truthfully don't remember where I got that information from, maybe I just inferred it from things in the anime. In the end though, I don't think it would mater WHY she got attacked. The point is the village attacked her, no matter if it was killing the nun or being immortal the village still turned on her and didn't love her anymore. Considering she had a lot of people under the Geass of "loving" her, shouldn't they not have if it was still in effect when they learned of the cause?
The village did not attack her. Nowhere is that ever stated, not in the episode or any other. What little is seen of her attackers are random images from different time periods and even different continents.
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Old 2011-07-02, 10:18   Link #7435
rinichan
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Just saying my opinion...
Quote:
I never implied (or meant to) they turned as soon she got the code. I truthfully don't remember where I got that information from, maybe I just inferred it from things in the anime. In the end though, I don't think it would mater WHY she got attacked. The point is the village attacked her, no matter if it was killing the nun or being immortal the village still turned on her and didn't love her anymore. Considering she had a lot of people under the Geass of "loving" her, shouldn't they not have if it was still in effect when they learned of the cause?

Unless of course all the people she had Geassed are dead, but considering she was about what, 20, when she got the code and the people she Geassed were about the same age... Even in those days when the lifespan was a lot less, it would have to had taken like 30-40 years for them to all die probably. Thats a long time for them not to notice her not aging... although at the risk of shooting down my own argument if they "loved" her I suppose they would ignore it.
for first paragraph:
we all know that her geass is about "to be love" but how is that possible? do she needs to look them in the eye or command them, or its long range (like Mao and Rolo's)? at least this was this scene (1:11) is telling me ...

2nd paragraph...
she looks 8-10 when she has geass, I think it will be fair to say she's around 15-18 when she got Code... How long does it take to make your geass powerfull, In Lelouch case it only took him what, 2 years???
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Old 2011-07-02, 10:27   Link #7436
rinichan
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynor
C.C. may not have been, but who abducted her in the first place? V.V. who is just like C.C. Plus she was probably being held at the palace, where Charles was also. The whole theory behind close contact with Geass re-enforcing it is still valid as just because C.C. is gone her contact with Geass isn't.

Quote:
morbosfist
V.V. doesn't live at the palace. He lives in China with the Geass order. No close contact.
I think CC is in hiding for what 8 years, thats only my theory, and i think some of the episodes doesnt really directly tell us that its Clovis team who abducted her, in that capsule like thing, I think it came from the research team who studies geass, under V.V.'s command. So i think first paragraph is 55% right in my view...

2nd paragraph....
i dont know for sure....
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Old 2011-07-02, 10:44   Link #7437
Tactics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinichan View Post
Just saying my opinion...


for first paragraph:
we all know that her geass is about "to be love" but how is that possible? do she needs to look them in the eye or command them, or its long range (like Mao and Rolo's)? at least this was this scene (1:11) is telling me ...

2nd paragraph...
she looks 8-10 when she has geass, I think it will be fair to say she's around 15-18 when she got Code... How long does it take to make your geass powerfull, In Lelouch case it only took him what, 2 years???
I think C.C.'s Geass is similar to Lelouch and Charles.
By making contact with it's target.

If i recall it correctly, C.C. said there's some people who want to make a religion based on her activity.
Isn't it quite implying that C.C. is implanting her needs "to be loved" ?

Geass evolved by the number of usage.
In S1 he already explained that he had used his Geass many times just to check it's limitation.
Same case is applied to C.C.
The only difference is, C.C. is needs to be loved ( after spending time being a slave ), when Lelouch uses his Geass as catalyst for a better result.

It's quite confusing in R2.
In R2, Lelouch's Geass evolved following his emotion.
By considering fact, how many person he had geass-ed to make his way to Charles.
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Old 2011-07-02, 23:19   Link #7438
lightsenshi
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From what I remember, a person's Geass manifests in the way that reflects their innermost desires.

C.C.'s deepest desire was to be loved and accepted.

Lelouch's is ultimately a manifestation of the ability to control one's environment and others in it.
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Old 2011-07-03, 02:29   Link #7439
Cynor
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
She only draws one downward line, as is evident from the wide angle and the closeup. Also, there's only 6 lines, including the most recent. That's only six days.

A couple are cut off the edge of the screen, but you can still tell they were her marks and not lines from the bricks. So that is 10 lines, and if each line is one day then that is 10 days. If mine is right then that is 5, which is super close to your 6 anyways.

As for her drawing a downward line only, C.C. brings our attention to her as she is making a line. From the wide angle showing her (which I can't see any marks in...) it is hard to say exactly which way her hand is working when she is making the mark. Then there is a few seconds of dialogue before going to the upclose shot. It's perfectly plausible to say that she made the horizontal line first, then made the vertical and we only see the latter.

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
That doesn't mean she was watching them the entire time. She couldn't.
Says who? She was in hiding, they were in hiding. They went to Tokyo, and isn't that where she was observed to be immortal and captured? On whose order is up for debate, but weren't they moving her from a Tokyo facility in the capsule to another one somewhere else?

Did they ever say where she was during the time she was hiding?

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Temporary resistance is not the same thing as disobedience. They obey, whether sooner or later. It's inevitable.
I still feel like this is nit picking. I'm not saying they actually disobey, they WANT to. They can't, but they want to. They still give in. My wording is just different. Replace everything where I said Disobey with resist and the meaning is still pretty much the same iirc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
V.V. doesn't live at the palace. He lives in China with the Geass order. No close contact.
And you don't think he'd come visit his brother or give him updates in the hunt for C.C. why?

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
If it was already broken she would have opened her eyes on the spot. She breaks it looking for the key, which is why that sudden moment of realization hits her.
What sudden realization, that she could see? Or did they imply she got all her memories back? The sudden realization of being able to see doesn't help or hurt my theory....

Again, she is so used to NOT being able to see and didn't have any reason before to see. That was her life. As I said, if something has changed and you didn't know it had changed, has it really change? Or maybe more accurately, if you think two things are the same, are they really? Couldn't they still be different in reality and you just don't know it because you can't perceive that difference?

This isn't a great example, but say you put equal amounts of red food coloring in a glass of water and green in the another. In a color value scale Red and Green are the same value. What that means is if you take a picture in greyscale of those glasses you couldn't tell the red from the green. I actually had to do something similar to that for a school assignment in color theory, so I know it's possible. You may not get it right the first time, but with enough time and tweaking you'll get it exactly right and have a "perfect" picture.

The tie in to Nunnally is that given that "perfect" photograph you would think the two have the same color liquid unless you were aware of it before hand. To apply that to her eyesight it's basically how what we think we know is how we perceive reality. She thinks she is blind, so her reality is that she is blind. You think the liquid is the same color in both glasses, so your reality is that both glasses have the same color liquid in them. The actual reality is different. You don't know that as you're looking at a photo of the glasses. She doesn't know that because she doesn't think she can see.

Now what if someone you trusted greatly came and told you that they were different? Maybe you can't see it, but you trust the person and believe them. Suddenly your reality has changed, you know they are different. To apply it back to Nunnally... Nunnally could see all along, and she had a need for her reality to change, and so it did. Maybe she thought "if only I could see..." and in desperation she opened her eyes hoping she could... and she could.


To be honest though, that whole thing of her suddenly breaking it has always bugged me. Even if she fully broke his Geass all of a sudden she shouldn't be able to see or walk. Her muscles in her legs should be totally shot from not being used for 8 years. (Now I know they don't show her walking, but let me finish) Why shouldn't her eyes be the same way?

After seeing black for so long shouldn't they not work that well? Yet she talks about finally looking upon her brother's face as if she had perfect vision again. Think of how well you see first thing in the morning when you wake up. or how the human eye sees in low light and light can ruin that. The same principle should apply to "regaining" eyesight.
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Old 2011-07-03, 11:07   Link #7440
Tactics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynor View Post
Says who? She was in hiding, they were in hiding. They went to Tokyo, and isn't that where she was observed to be immortal and captured? On whose order is up for debate, but weren't they moving her from a Tokyo facility in the capsule to another one somewhere else?

Did they ever say where she was during the time she was hiding?
The problem is-- C.C. clothes during that scene.

It's implying two meanings if we reconsidering R2 title of 25th episode - Re.

It could be that's Lelouch flashback that captured by World of C.
Or it could be that she's captured -> run away -> captured again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynor View Post
What sudden realization, that she could see? Or did they imply she got all her memories back? The sudden realization of being able to see doesn't help or hurt my theory....

Again, she is so used to NOT being able to see and didn't have any reason before to see. That was her life. As I said, if something has changed and you didn't know it had changed, has it really change? Or maybe more accurately, if you think two things are the same, are they really? Couldn't they still be different in reality and you just don't know it because you can't perceive that difference?

This isn't a great example, but say you put equal amounts of red food coloring in a glass of water and green in the another. In a color value scale Red and Green are the same value. What that means is if you take a picture in greyscale of those glasses you couldn't tell the red from the green. I actually had to do something similar to that for a school assignment in color theory, so I know it's possible. You may not get it right the first time, but with enough time and tweaking you'll get it exactly right and have a "perfect" picture.

The tie in to Nunnally is that given that "perfect" photograph you would think the two have the same color liquid unless you were aware of it before hand. To apply that to her eyesight it's basically how what we think we know is how we perceive reality. She thinks she is blind, so her reality is that she is blind. You think the liquid is the same color in both glasses, so your reality is that both glasses have the same color liquid in them. The actual reality is different. You don't know that as you're looking at a photo of the glasses. She doesn't know that because she doesn't think she can see.

Now what if someone you trusted greatly came and told you that they were different? Maybe you can't see it, but you trust the person and believe them. Suddenly your reality has changed, you know they are different. To apply it back to Nunnally... Nunnally could see all along, and she had a need for her reality to change, and so it did. Maybe she thought "if only I could see..." and in desperation she opened her eyes hoping she could... and she could.


To be honest though, that whole thing of her suddenly breaking it has always bugged me. Even if she fully broke his Geass all of a sudden she shouldn't be able to see or walk. Her muscles in her legs should be totally shot from not being used for 8 years. (Now I know they don't show her walking, but let me finish) Why shouldn't her eyes be the same way?

After seeing black for so long shouldn't they not work that well? Yet she talks about finally looking upon her brother's face as if she had perfect vision again. Think of how well you see first thing in the morning when you wake up. or how the human eye sees in low light and light can ruin that. The same principle should apply to "regaining" eyesight.
Charles's Geass is to rewrite memory.
He uses that to rewrite Nunnally mind for being blind.
The same goes as he rewriting Lelouch mind.

See at Lelouch eyes during the 1st episode of R2.
Lelouch's Geass is supposed to be permanently activated.
But Lelouch eyes is normal until C.C. doing that business kiss

After that, Lelouch is able to uses his Geass again without any difficulity.

The same principle is worked with Nunnally.
She may hadn't seen anything before, but it doesn't mean she'll suffer difficulity to see anymore.
Because in her true memory, she is able to see everything clearly.

If you're implying she's supposed to try to regaining the sight first, she's already did that.
If not, the FLEIJA Detonator wouldn't placed in her hands.
Lelouch take a long time before he reach Nunnally, it gave her more than enough time to adapt her eyesight.
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