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Old 2010-06-24, 16:44   Link #181
Airman8
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Hey guys, not sure if this has been touched on yet. We all know that Kyon is cynical and sarcastic... I was looking at the origin of the word 'cynic.' and found something kind of interesting:

Quote:
mid-16c., in reference to the ancient philosophy, from Gk. kynikos "a follower of Antisthenes," lit. "dog-like," from kyon (gen. kynos) "dog" (see canine).

Supposedly from the sneering sarcasm of the philosophers, but more likely from Kynosarge "Grey Dog," name of the gymnasium outside ancient Athens (for the use of those who were not pure Athenians) where the founder, Antisthenes (a pupil of Socrates), taught.

Diogenes was the most famous. Popular association even in ancient times was "dog-like" (Lucian has kyniskos "a little cynic," lit. "puppy"). Meaning "sneering sarcastic person" is from 1590s.
Just a coincidence?
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Old 2010-06-24, 23:34   Link #182
quigonkenny
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Hey, Hoser, this milk thread is four months old...

But yes, the origin of "cynic" has been discussed, likely in the Novel thread. But it was quite some time ago.
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Old 2011-06-28, 17:42   Link #183
TheHaruhiIncarnate
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I would like to declare my sort of hate for Kyon Pre-Disappearance.

He complained all the time and he kept disreguarding his major responsibility for Haruhi's actions. He kept saying "It's Haruhi's fault. Let her deal with it." But how could Haruhi deal with it if she doesnt know anything?! Conplaining about Haruhi's actions. If he didn't like it, he should have done something about it instead of whining to Koizumi. At least Haruhi has the guts to go after what she wants. But Kyon does nothing. It was the reason they repeated summer that many times (in the anime, it showed really how passive he was about his situation with Haruhi and how he said, "The other me will have to deal with it.") he is also responsible for Nagato recreating the world becuase he put all the responsibility on her and thought she could handle everything. Gosh, that annoyed me the most.

Post-Disappearance was when Kyon finally (for me anyway) stared to become more likeable. I remember Kyon in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody saying in regaurds to Mikuru's orders, "oh well, people in the future have their own way of doing things." But in the Intregues of Haruhi Suzumiya, he was mad with Mikuru (Big) of how she handled Mikuru (little) around without her reason to. He's more involved in the SOS brigades actions while still saying those awesome quips. In Disappearance he really understands the role he plays and does the best that he can after because he likes being with Haruhi and the SOS Brigade.

I REALLY love Kyon's character. Even if he is powerless, he still does his best. It was beautiful character development. Think of Kyon as Chihiro in "Spirited Away". At first, she was whiny, but by the end of the movie, she becomes a strong young girl. That is Kyon.

*end statement*
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Old 2011-06-28, 22:09   Link #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHaruhiIncarnate View Post
I would like to declare my sort of hate for Kyon Pre-Disappearance.

He complained all the time and he kept disreguarding his major responsibility for Haruhi's actions. He kept saying "It's Haruhi's fault. Let her deal with it." But how could Haruhi deal with it if she doesnt know anything?! Conplaining about Haruhi's actions. If he didn't like it, he should have done something about it instead of whining to Koizumi. At least Haruhi has the guts to go after what she wants. But Kyon does nothing. It was the reason they repeated summer that many times (in the anime, it showed really how passive he was about his situation with Haruhi and how he said, "The other me will have to deal with it.") he is also responsible for Nagato recreating the world becuase he put all the responsibility on her and thought she could handle everything. Gosh, that annoyed me the most.

Post-Disappearance was when Kyon finally (for me anyway) stared to become more likeable. I remember Kyon in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody saying in regaurds to Mikuru's orders, "oh well, people in the future have their own way of doing things." But in the Intregues of Haruhi Suzumiya, he was mad with Mikuru (Big) of how she handled Mikuru (little) around without her reason to. He's more involved in the SOS brigades actions while still saying those awesome quips. In Disappearance he really understands the role he plays and does the best that he can after because he likes being with Haruhi and the SOS Brigade.

I REALLY love Kyon's character. Even if he is powerless, he still does his best. It was beautiful character development. Think of Kyon as Chihiro in "Spirited Away". At first, she was whiny, but by the end of the movie, she becomes a strong young girl. That is Kyon.

*end statement*
Well, to be fair, he was only 15 when Melancholy started. What fifteen year old guy likes responsibility?
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Old 2011-06-30, 09:55   Link #185
TheHaruhiIncarnate
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Originally Posted by Jonbob0008 View Post
Well, to be fair, he was only 15 when Melancholy started. What fifteen year old guy likes responsibility?
ha! I guess you're right. I'm just glad he's not like that anymore.
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Old 2011-07-01, 16:17   Link #186
VentAileron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHaruhiIncarnate View Post
It was the reason they repeated summer that many times (in the anime, it showed really how passive he was about his situation with Haruhi and how he said, "The other me will have to deal with it.") he is also responsible for Nagato recreating the world becuase he put all the responsibility on her and thought she could handle everything. Gosh, that annoyed me the most.
Spoiler for Contains specific events in the series:
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Old 2011-07-01, 21:35   Link #187
TheHaruhiIncarnate
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Originally Posted by VentAileron View Post
Spoiler for Contains specific events in the series:
You have a point. Which makes Kyon very normal and unique from other characters. Though, I really think if Kyon was more involved with events, Nagato would have felt better. That doesn't mean she would have not created the world or not, but it could have helped.
I guess I never have been fond of characters that are like Kyon pre-disappearance.
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Old 2011-07-01, 23:22   Link #188
Neo_Evangelion
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Hey, everyone, I'm new and just getting into the Haruhi Suzumiya. I was just wondering about Kyon's name. I know that it's a nickname spread around by his sister, but does "Kyon" actually mean something in Japanese? Any help would be great. I tried searching through this thread, but got kind of paranoid about spoilers. Thanks a lot!
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Old 2011-07-01, 23:37   Link #189
ijuinkun
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"Kyon" doesn't actually mean anything by itself, but it is highly likely that it is derived from his (unstated) real name beginning with "Kyo".
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Old 2011-07-02, 18:21   Link #190
Gamer_2k4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VentAileron View Post
I never really understood why people hate Kyon for being passive. Most of the time, the characters are trying to find out what exactly in the world is happening. Kyon usually discusses this with Koizumi and Nagato. It's obvious you can't take action with a proper plan when you need to disarm a poorly manufactured bomb called Haruhi Suzumiya.
It's because he's not just passive; heck, they're all passive. It's because he's always "boo hoo hoo this sucks why is this happening to me" that people like me don't like him. He's like Shinji from NGE, except he has sarcasm and wisecracking while Shinji doesn't.

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Originally Posted by VentAileron View Post
In the end, it's usually Kyon who comes up with a clever way of fixing the mess. Look at Endless Eight, look at the movie shooting, look at the ending of Melancholy, all were pre-Disappearance. When it comes down to it and within his possibilities, Kyon always took action.
The use of the word "clever" is a bit gratuitous here. Kyon's solutions are never clever. They just end up working.
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Old 2011-07-02, 19:22   Link #191
ijuinkun
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The "cleverness" comes in where Kyon realizes that the simple, direct solutions are what is needed instead of the convoluted ones that somebody like Koizumi would come up with. Kyon was willing to shout at Haruhi and almost slug her where a "rational" person would be afraid of her powers-driven reprisal. He was, in the end of Endless Eight, finally able to realize that, after 15,497 repeats (or 15.519 in the animated version), what Haruhi wanted was not wacky hijinks, but rather something that none of them would have even considered doing even given fifteen and a half thousand chances--he grasped that he had to do something that was intentionally out of character. Koizumi and Yuki, meanwhile, would (and perhaps had, and then given up) try an exhaustive search of possible permutations.
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Old 2011-07-02, 19:37   Link #192
TheHaruhiIncarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
The "cleverness" comes in where Kyon realizes that the simple, direct solutions are what is needed instead of the convoluted ones that somebody like Koizumi would come up with. Kyon was willing to shout at Haruhi and almost slug her where a "rational" person would be afraid of her powers-driven reprisal. He was, in the end of Endless Eight, finally able to realize that, after 15,497 repeats (or 15.519 in the animated version), what Haruhi wanted was not wacky hijinks, but rather something that none of them would have even considered doing even given fifteen and a half thousand chances--he grasped that he had to do something that was intentionally out of character. Koizumi and Yuki, meanwhile, would (and perhaps had, and then given up) try an exhaustive search of possible permutations.
You do have a point. Kyon is what really grounds Haruhi's actions. And it ends up being unconventional for Haruhi and what Koizumi and Nagato thinks she wants. He "humanizes" or keeps her down to earth. (which I think is why Haruhi and Kyon work well. Geez, I couldn't say that without it sounding like i'm making a shippy statement)
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Old 2011-07-03, 04:03   Link #193
VentAileron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4 View Post
The use of the word "clever" is a bit gratuitous here. Kyon's solutions are never clever. They just end up working.
Oh? Remember how he solved the Sigh that was the movie shooting? I personally find that quite ingenious.
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