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Old 2011-07-01, 13:49   Link #2661
Divini
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If Yuki thinks like this, I SERIOUSLY doubt she'll be truly happy with anybody else but Seiji.

Unless her character is going to be left high and dry, she's going to try to make up with him eventually, at best, or end up in a bad relationship with another guy, at worst.
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Old 2011-07-01, 20:58   Link #2662
Waven
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I'd sooo love a female opinion on Yuki's action and/or Utsumi's supposed/ ideal reaction on this.

Maybe I have to force my friends to read some ShoRo after all...
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Old 2011-07-02, 02:30   Link #2663
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divini View Post
If Yuki thinks like this, I SERIOUSLY doubt she'll be truly happy with anybody else but Seiji.

Unless her character is going to be left high and dry, she's going to try to make up with him eventually, at best, or end up in a bad relationship with another guy, at worst.
Yes..,i agree..

probably, we have entered in the Arc Thouro..
Thouro and Yuki will have a comparison..
I hope, Yuki understand, who really loves ..."Utsumi"
and she can finally forget Thouro...
another guy, for her, not exist.. the comparison will be between Utsumi e Thouro..
If this,not happens, i hope Utsumi becomes a bad guy .. and begins with Risa and all other!
I like his character, Utsumi can make any girl happy..
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Old 2011-07-02, 03:38   Link #2664
vansonbee
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I thought Yuki does love Utsumi more than Torou? She only broke-up with him, so he can find his happiness, because it pains her to see Utsumi like this.

If I'm wrong, I'll reread it.
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Old 2011-07-02, 04:45   Link #2665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
I thought Yuki does love Utsumi more than Torou? She only broke-up with him, so he can find his happiness, because it pains her to see Utsumi like this.

If I'm wrong, I'll reread it.
Lol. And because it pains her so much she asks him to have sex in the place she lost her virginity with her ex? And when he naturally declines she instantly breaks up with him. Dont be ridiculous. This was not a move of compassion or love, but a move of idiocity and self-centerdness.

For me it looks like Yuki wants an asshole for a boyfriend. Because all of those who are not assholes and would care about her, would decline such offer and only ones who would accept would be the ones who would simply want to fuck no matter the place or the circumstances or even the girl they are together with.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2011-07-02 at 04:57.
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Old 2011-07-02, 04:54   Link #2666
vansonbee
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Lol. And because it pains her so much she asks him to have sex in the place she lost her virginity with her ex? And when he naturally declines she breaks up with him. This was not a move of compassion or love, but a move of idiocity and self-centerdness.

This poster explains it best what lead to the break-up and I do agree that her attempts to fix this problem is idiocy, but self center is tricky. She either did it to not pain herself or pain Utsumi, this is interpreted differently by each person.
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Old 2011-07-02, 04:58   Link #2667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post

This poster explains it best what lead to the break-up and I do agree that her attempts to fix this problem is idiocy, but self center is tricky. She either did it to not pain herself or pain Utsumi, this is interpreted differently by each person.
As I said - she wants an asshole for a boyfriend. Only an asshole who wants just sex no matter the place and circumstances would agree with such offer. I see no love here. If she would love him she would put herself in his shoes and if would offer sex it would certainly would not be in there. Everyone who is not a complete asshole would decline this shit. Meaning she would break with anyone who isnt just after her body at this point.

If I love my girlfriend I would never force her into such situation where I force an option on her where if she accepts she is an insensitive bitch and if she declines - I break up with her. Unless I am a massochist and want an insensitive bitch for a girlfriend, that is.

If she wanted to break up with him she should have done it wihout this pretentious crap where no real choice is given as its a lose-lose situation. Even if Utsu went with that and had sex with Yuki just to please her twisted feelings there he would only develop a mental trauma for himself, constantly berating himself and feeling guilty afterwards.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2011-07-02 at 05:17.
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Old 2011-07-02, 05:13   Link #2668
KLGChaos
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Spoiler for 88:

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-07-02, 06:00   Link #2669
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
As I said - she wants an asshole for a boyfriend. Only an asshole who wants just sex no matter the place and circumstances would agree with such offer. I see no love here. If she would love him she would put herself in his shoes and if would offer sex it would certainly would not be in there. Everyone who is not a complete asshole would decline this shit. Meaning she would break with anyone who isnt just after her body at this point.

If I love my girlfriend I would never force her into such situation where I force an option on her where if she accepts she is an insensitive bitch and if she declines - I break up with her. Unless I am a massochist and want an insensitive bitch for a girlfriend, that is.

If she wanted to break up with him she should have done it wihout this pretentious crap where no real choice is given as its a lose-lose situation. Even if Utsu went with that and had sex with Yuki just to please her twisted feelings there he would only develop a mental trauma for himself, constantly berating himself and feeling guilty afterwards.
right at the end, not only the trauma is an obstacle for Utsumi, the problem, is that, she probably still has not forgotten Thouro..






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Spoiler for 88:

Spoiler:
Spoiler. ..
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-07-02, 07:15   Link #2670
Waven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
As I said - she wants an asshole for a boyfriend. Only an asshole who wants just sex no matter the place and circumstances would agree with such offer. I see no love here. If she would love him she would put herself in his shoes and if would offer sex it would certainly would not be in there. Everyone who is not a complete asshole would decline this shit. Meaning she would break with anyone who isnt just after her body at this point.

If I love my girlfriend I would never force her into such situation where I force an option on her where if she accepts she is an insensitive bitch and if she declines - I break up with her. Unless I am a massochist and want an insensitive bitch for a girlfriend, that is.

If she wanted to break up with him she should have done it wihout this pretentious crap where no real choice is given as its a lose-lose situation. Even if Utsu went with that and had sex with Yuki just to please her twisted feelings there he would only develop a mental trauma for himself, constantly berating himself and feeling guilty afterwards.
You didn't read Rainrir's posts, or understood them or you just don't respond to them - I think his arguments are so much stronger and valid compared to your unbacked macho point of view that is based on mere assumptions.

Also, your post is no answer to what vansonbee was refering to, it's another piece of incoherent ranting. As usual you just pick the most controversial stance (like Yuki being a bitch) and merely want to provoke.

And yes, I don't directly respond to what you write either but that's just because I know what arguing with you looks like, heck, anyone who's been on this board for more than a month knows.
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Old 2011-07-02, 08:59   Link #2671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
And yes, I don't directly respond to what you write either but that's just because I know what arguing with you looks like, heck, anyone who's been on this board for more than a month knows.
It's fine - its not like your opinion carries any worth for me nor like I pay much attention to what you write myself after all.

And I never read Rainrirs posts - whats the point frankly, even if Yuki would kill every character on the manga he would still proclaim her saint.
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Old 2011-07-02, 09:00   Link #2672
NeoFireHawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
As I said - she wants an asshole for a boyfriend. Only an asshole who wants just sex no matter the place and circumstances would agree with such offer. I see no love here. If she would love him she would put herself in his shoes and if would offer sex it would certainly would not be in there. Everyone who is not a complete asshole would decline this shit. Meaning she would break with anyone who isn't just after her body at this point.

If I love my girlfriend I would never force her into such situation where I force an option on her where if she accepts she is an insensitive bitch and if she declines - I break up with her. Unless I am a masochist and want an insensitive bitch for a girlfriend, that is.

If she wanted to break up with him she should have done it without this pretentious crap where no real choice is given as its a lose-lose situation. Even if Utsu went with that and had sex with Yuki just to please her twisted feelings there he would only develop a mental trauma for himself, constantly berating himself and feeling guilty afterwards.
Good analysis.
Yes, you are completely correct. But you have to accept that such thing was to be expected from this manga, to be honest.
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Old 2011-07-02, 13:10   Link #2673
jzmagic
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Looks like the 88 spoilers are a false alarm.
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Old 2011-07-02, 21:24   Link #2674
MikiMata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
I'd sooo love a female opinion on Yuki's action and/or Utsumi's supposed/ ideal reaction on this.

Maybe I have to force my friends to read some ShoRo after all...
I'm female, and I've been reading this series since the beginning. My first thought was this whole break-up could have been avoided if Yuki had just slept in a better-fitting kimono.

But seriously, I have to say my reaction to Yuki's request was to put my head in my hands and groan. I really couldn't believe she would seriously say such a thing. Speaking purely theoretically, her thinking has a twisted logic to it, but it defies all basic common sense and decency. She basically told Utsumi that she spent their entire date thinking about her former lover; it doesn't matter how she phrases it, that is the essence of what she said, and it was a slap in the face to a true prince of a boyfriend. Then she says it is too painful for her to watch him force himself on her account; this statement was a breathtaking blend of self-pity, faux martyrdom, and pseudo-compassion. But it was telling because she said the words "it's too painful for me." The real truth is that the break-up was not an act of caring for Utsumi - who is quite happy to have her as his girlfriend - but is purely to make herself feel better. This way, instead of working out these issues together with her boyfriend, she can tell herself she set him free for his own good, and he will be so much happier without her. Right. Need help climbing down from that Cross, Yuki?

Her actions were not only selfish and overly dramatic, but they were detrimental to her supposed goal: forgetting Tohru. By taking Utsumi to the places she shared with Tohru, she was basically taking a commemorative "Pilgrimage of Pain" - because, of course, her pain is so great and unprecedented (in her mind) that it requires a special ritual all its own to overcome. But the usual purpose of commemorating a past event is to remember it, which is precisely what Yuki should not be doing. To use a stupid example, it's like that old saying, if somebody tells you not to think of bananas, you will immediately think of nothing but bananas. Yuki lets her pain define all of her actions and decisions, and as long as she does this, she will never move past it. And, underneath it all, I don't believe she really wants to; she prefers to brood over the past and wallow in self-pity to actually facing the realities of the present.

Yuki's actions lately have been so cowardly and irrational, I find it hard to believe this is the same intelligent, perceptive girl from the start of the series. Yuki is clearly not ready to date anyone right now, so in the short term, it's probably appropriate that they break up. But she owes Utsumi a huge apology if/when she wakes up and wants him back, and even then, he would be completely justified in rejecting her and moving on...if he hasn't already done so.
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Old 2011-07-02, 22:21   Link #2675
jzmagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata View Post
I'm female, and I've been reading this series since the beginning. My first thought was this whole break-up could have been avoided if Yuki had just slept in a better-fitting kimono.

But seriously, I have to say my reaction to Yuki's request was to put my head in my hands and groan. I really couldn't believe she would seriously say such a thing. Speaking purely theoretically, her thinking has a twisted logic to it, but it defies all basic common sense and decency. She basically told Utsumi that she spent their entire date thinking about her former lover; it doesn't matter how she phrases it, that is the essence of what she said, and it was a slap in the face to a true prince of a boyfriend. Then she says it is too painful for her to watch him force himself on her account; this statement was a breathtaking blend of self-pity, faux martyrdom, and pseudo-compassion. But it was telling because she said the words "it's too painful for me." The real truth is that the break-up was not an act of caring for Utsumi - who is quite happy to have her as his girlfriend - but is purely to make herself feel better. This way, instead of working out these issues together with her boyfriend, she can tell herself she set him free for his own good, and he will be so much happier without her. Right. Need help climbing down from that Cross, Yuki?

Her actions were not only selfish and overly dramatic, but they were detrimental to her supposed goal: forgetting Tohru. By taking Utsumi to the places she shared with Tohru, she was basically taking a commemorative "Pilgrimage of Pain" - because, of course, her pain is so great and unprecedented (in her mind) that it requires a special ritual all its own to overcome. But the usual purpose of commemorating a past event is to remember it, which is precisely what Yuki should not be doing. To use a stupid example, it's like that old saying, if somebody tells you not to think of bananas, you will immediately think of nothing but bananas. Yuki lets her pain define all of her actions and decisions, and as long as she does this, she will never move past it. And, underneath it all, I don't believe she really wants to; she prefers to brood over the past and wallow in self-pity to actually facing the realities of the present.

Yuki's actions lately have been so cowardly and irrational, I find it hard to believe this is the same intelligent, perceptive girl from the start of the series. Yuki is clearly not ready to date anyone right now, so in the short term, it's probably appropriate that they break up. But she owes Utsumi a huge apology if/when she wakes up and wants him back, and even then, he would be completely justified in rejecting her and moving on...if he hasn't already done so.
It's too bad SK destroyed Yuki's character like this. I just hope Utsumi moves on and stops chasing her, but of course this is shounen so that would be unlikely. He deserves someone better after all the work he's put in to try to make their rocky relationship work, and then getting dumped in an instant because he won't agree to such a twisted demand.
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Old 2011-07-03, 09:48   Link #2676
Waven
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@MikiMata:

Thx for your insight, I agree with most of your post. Then again, I've never been defending her actions that are full of extreme self-sacrifice and self-pity, as you pointed out, but tried to point out what her intentions behind her actions were.

What pisses me really off is when some ignorant people misrepresent her trauma afflicted personality and her resulting flawed actions and falsely conclude her character to present a bad person.
Sadly not every action built upon good intentions eventuates in a positive outcome.

What I want to argue is Yuki's selfishness. All she did the past few chapters, even though it backfired horribly, was a means for Utsumi to be happy because this way she feels better as well or, in case of the breakup, to lessen his pain so she doesn't have to feel that bad to see him suffer, in that sense her actions are selfish. However, if put this way, Utsumi is no different: He wants her to feel good in any way possibe because he as well is the happiest when his gf is happy.
Paradoxically it's a simple concept of 'selfish selflessness' or 'selfless selfishness' depending on how you look at it. The same concept that makes people do charity, cause it makes them feel good, be the reason a guilty conscience or to maintain one's ideals.

Last edited by Waven; 2011-07-03 at 10:08.
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Old 2011-07-03, 10:00   Link #2677
paradox13
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Quote:
It's too bad SK destroyed Yuki's character like this. I just hope Utsumi moves on and stops chasing her, but of course this is shounen so that would be unlikely.
How has he destroyed her character?

You've seriously never seen girls in real life like this?
And guys chasing chicks to the end of the world doesn't only happen in shounen either.

Lmao @ 12 year olds posting on here.
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Old 2011-07-03, 10:44   Link #2678
KLGChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata View Post
I'm female, and I've been reading this series since the beginning. My first thought was this whole break-up could have been avoided if Yuki had just slept in a better-fitting kimono.

But seriously, I have to say my reaction to Yuki's request was to put my head in my hands and groan. I really couldn't believe she would seriously say such a thing. Speaking purely theoretically, her thinking has a twisted logic to it, but it defies all basic common sense and decency. She basically told Utsumi that she spent their entire date thinking about her former lover; it doesn't matter how she phrases it, that is the essence of what she said, and it was a slap in the face to a true prince of a boyfriend. Then she says it is too painful for her to watch him force himself on her account; this statement was a breathtaking blend of self-pity, faux martyrdom, and pseudo-compassion. But it was telling because she said the words "it's too painful for me." The real truth is that the break-up was not an act of caring for Utsumi - who is quite happy to have her as his girlfriend - but is purely to make herself feel better. This way, instead of working out these issues together with her boyfriend, she can tell herself she set him free for his own good, and he will be so much happier without her. Right. Need help climbing down from that Cross, Yuki?

Her actions were not only selfish and overly dramatic, but they were detrimental to her supposed goal: forgetting Tohru. By taking Utsumi to the places she shared with Tohru, she was basically taking a commemorative "Pilgrimage of Pain" - because, of course, her pain is so great and unprecedented (in her mind) that it requires a special ritual all its own to overcome. But the usual purpose of commemorating a past event is to remember it, which is precisely what Yuki should not be doing. To use a stupid example, it's like that old saying, if somebody tells you not to think of bananas, you will immediately think of nothing but bananas. Yuki lets her pain define all of her actions and decisions, and as long as she does this, she will never move past it. And, underneath it all, I don't believe she really wants to; she prefers to brood over the past and wallow in self-pity to actually facing the realities of the present.

Yuki's actions lately have been so cowardly and irrational, I find it hard to believe this is the same intelligent, perceptive girl from the start of the series. Yuki is clearly not ready to date anyone right now, so in the short term, it's probably appropriate that they break up. But she owes Utsumi a huge apology if/when she wakes up and wants him back, and even then, he would be completely justified in rejecting her and moving on...if he hasn't already done so.
I hope you don't mind, but I linked the onemanga forums to this post. So many of us that read the series are men, so it's refreshing to see a female perspective, especially one that is so well-written and makes several great points (many of us guys tend to say things without being able to back up the things we said). Yuki isn't a bad person-- however, I agree that she's been selfish in this whole thing, saying she's pushing Utsumi away for "his sake" when in actuality, it's her who can't handle the pain. Bravo.
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Old 2011-07-03, 11:40   Link #2679
jzmagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
How has he destroyed her character?

You've seriously never seen girls in real life like this?
And guys chasing chicks to the end of the world doesn't only happen in shounen either.

Lmao @ 12 year olds posting on here.
Yes, I'm 12, which must mean that I registered on the animesuki forums when I was 7 years old .
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Old 2011-07-03, 14:15   Link #2680
Merilyn Mensola
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Like Vansonbeen has said,Yuki loves so much Thouro, and for this, she can't be able to love Utsumi?
I remember when in a date with Utsumi, Yuki was always thinking,: send an email to Thouro, or not?
The same with the letter.....
Yuki Need to talk to with Thouro,She must have to a comparison with Thouro,
and see if she can forget the past. (Thouro), and start thinking about the future, (Utsumi)...
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