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Old 2011-07-03, 14:21   Link #2681
Johnny
Working the bags...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmagic View Post
Yes, I'm 12, which must mean that I registered on the animesuki forums when I was 7 years old .
LMAO, you must have been one of those baby geniuses then...

As far as destroying her character. I wouldn't go that far, but her actions make it seem like she was gang-raped by a bunch of mindless thugs in a dark alley. She did everything willingly from start to finish. Sure she was video-taped and the boyfriend was supposedly in on it, but the whole bit in Utsumi's bedroom with her freezing up was just way over the top. I'll cut her a bit of slack that she has some issues, but the mangaka has been overplaying that card way too much that I really don't care what happens to her anymore...
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Old 2011-07-04, 07:37   Link #2682
Rainrir
Tin Can
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
I don't like to argue someone's point by proxy, This is also the reason why I am posting here in direct response to Miki's points that was brought over to onemanga by KGL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata
But seriously, I have to say my reaction to Yuki's request was to put my head in my hands and groan. I really couldn't believe she would seriously say such a thing. Speaking purely theoretically, her thinking has a twisted logic to it, but it defies all basic common sense and decency. She basically told Utsumi that she spent their entire date thinking about her former lover; it doesn't matter how she phrases it, that is the essence of what she said, and it was a slap in the face to a true prince of a boyfriend.
Short answer is that noone actually think's Yuki actions are sound. However, this sentence basically reads the motivation in the worse possible way.

What Yuki is said is not "I have been think about my ex for the whole journey", but "I have been thinking how to get rid of my ex's memories for the whole journey". I cannot help if people want to twist the actual spoken words of another person to fit what they want believe.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...08/c087/7.html

Actual spoken words. This "it doesn't matter how she phrases it" reminds me of a argument between a couple, where one side twists every word of explaination of the other to make the other side sound wrong.

"There is nothing between me and the other person, we are just friends."
"Well you sure have been getting friendly...in bed!".

That kinda thing. The fact is, Yuki would not have need to do this if there was no relationship assymetry...from her having an unconcious defensive reaction during sex..which is from her left over trauma due to having sex (which ruined her life). Their relationship was progressing when until that issue mainfested. I do not understand how can someone link an unconcious action to "she is still in love with that former lover". People seem to treat this like something she can control. This is akin to telling the person with schizophrenia to stop being schizophrenic, or telling a person shivering in the cold to "stop shivering".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata
she says it is too painful for her to watch him force himself on her account; this statement was a breathtaking blend of self-pity, faux martyrdom, and pseudo-compassion. But it was telling because she said the words "it's too painful for me." The real truth is that the break-up was not an act of caring for Utsumi - who is quite happy to have her as his girlfriend - but is purely to make herself feel better. This way, instead of working out these issues together with her boyfriend, she can tell herself she set him free for his own good, and he will be so much happier without her. Right. Need help climbing down from that Cross, Yuki?
Utsumi is happy to have Yuki as a girlfriend now, but what about 1 year from now? 2 years? 5 years? As I said before, Utsumi has no realistic plans to talk about with Yuki at all. This point is something I had hammered in with supporting evidence from the manga pages, but everyone ignores it. Utsumi's plan is essentially 1) endure 2) be extra, extra nice to Yuki. Even up to the point of the confrontation and the immediate breakup, Utsumi was going to stick to this plan even when Yuki spelt it out for him. There is nothing wrong with these actions at all, but the are not any kind of solution.

Yuki feels this on a certain level. Which is why she asks (point 1)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...08/c087/5.html

and says (point 2)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...8/c087/14.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...8/c087/15.html

This is not a recipe for a lasting relationship. Patience and Kindness will run out once Utsumi starts feeling that what he is doing is a chore (which he will eventually in time if they continue like this). Then what of Yuki at that time? True, Yuki is somewhat of a worrywhat, in that she sometimes overthinks about the future. However, Yuki's unlying fear for the future is not unreasonable considering Utsumi set himself out to do the unrealistic.

I am not going to put Utsumi on a pedestal and say he is a saint. Utsumi is a nice person, but he is also a normal person. However, his solution for Yuki's problems is not realistic and his actions at night reinforce that. This is also what drives Yuki to do her not-so-well-thought-out ultimatium. "but is purely to make herself feel better." assumes that Yuki would actually feel better after the breakup. This will remain to be seen, but I believe that the breakup would make Yuki feel even worse for time to come.

I do not understand the insistence to read misguided good intent solely as malicious self-protection. It is normal for a person to not want to see their loved ones suffer for them, hence the clamoring for mercy-killing in some circles. There is always multiple motivations to a person's actions, which is the same for mercy killings (which is why it is so controversial). However, people are insisting on only seeing the negative. Is it because the scenario provokes an emotional response? Logically speaking, Yuki can have motivations of protecting herself and protecting Utsumi at the same time. It could even be that she reasoned that this would be for the best for both of them.

Yuki does have flawed logic and have not considered the possible impact from her actions. What she is doing is basically tampling on Utsumi's hardwork, her assumption that Utsumi can recover from this completely is 50-50 at best, her "all or nothing" ultimatium is too hasty and not realistic. Yuki took too long a view, neglected to assess the impact of things in the short run. These are all the flaws in Yuki's thinking.

However, people seem dead set on making the intent "bad" or "lol he should have just raped her" or "she only wants a jerk". (The last two are completely missing the point of these events, not to mention only open to Utsumi because of who he is). The fundamental issue here is relationship equality, Yuki wants to give as much of herself to Utsumi as Utsumi's devotion warrants. Yuki also knows that if this inequality is to persist, they have no chance in building a lasting relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata
Her actions were not only selfish and overly dramatic, but they were detrimental to her supposed goal: forgetting Tohru. By taking Utsumi to the places she shared with Tohru, she was basically taking a commemorative "Pilgrimage of Pain" - because, of course, her pain is so great and unprecedented (in her mind) that it requires a special ritual all its own to overcome. But the usual purpose of commemorating a past event is to remember it, which is precisely what Yuki should not be doing. To use a stupid example, it's like that old saying, if somebody tells you not to think of bananas, you will immediately think of nothing but bananas. Yuki lets her pain define all of her actions and decisions, and as long as she does this, she will never move past it. And, underneath it all, I don't believe she really wants to; she prefers to brood over the past and wallow in self-pity to actually facing the realities of the present.
Except that (sigh, I have to drag that "experience" in again I swear someone will say I am a poser again) in the treatment of PTSD, the participants are often asked to revisit the memory (if not the actual sites) of the trauma to work though the issues.

Unfortunately, Yuki's is not a professional nor can a (even qualified) individual set his/her own treatment schedule. What she did is going to be of limited effectiveness and might make things worse. What they should have done (which I had maintained from day one) is that they should get someone professional to help them. This is where her actions are wrong. Even if they don't want to immediately contact a professional (which is what people normally do), they both could have attempt to tackle the sex issue slowly, in a piecemeal fashion. Unfortunately, the two options in this scenario is "HERE AND NOW" shock therapy (Yuki) and "Buries Head in Sand" avoidance of problem (Utsumi).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMata
Yuki's actions lately have been so cowardly and irrational, I find it hard to believe this is the same intelligent, perceptive girl from the start of the series. Yuki is clearly not ready to date anyone right now, so in the short term, it's probably appropriate that they break up. But she owes Utsumi a huge apology if/when she wakes up and wants him back, and even then, he would be completely justified in rejecting her and moving on...if he hasn't already done so. "
Intellgience has nothing to do with people making the right or wrong choices in love at all, especially when emotions are running high. Yuki is intelligent...when the issues have nothing to do with herself. This is rather common, smart people (in my experience) make all the mistakes that normal people do, they are just better at convincing themselves what they do are not making mistakes (when they are looking at things from an overly one sided manner).

No. The breakup is completely avoidable if Utsumi or Yuki make a few different actions. I put the blame on both of them equally. The underlying issue in a breakup is whether the couple still loves each other or not. From my perspective, they do, which means they shouldn't break up.

Obviously, Yuki could have not done all these and we would not have a problem. This just takes a little bit of optimism, consideration of Utsumi's short term welfare and cool-headed thinking. However, the issue of her unconcious reaction will still have to be addressed. Frankly speaking, as I have said before, if Yuki could handle everything from her past by herself, then Utsumi would never have been needed to break down her walls. On the other hand, Utsumi could have diffused the issue by proposing a realistic solution they can work on together, instead of shutting down Yuki's proposal completely (aka "I already told you...") and wanting things to be "as they are in the past" (basically avoiding the problem).

Last edited by Rainrir; 2011-07-04 at 08:20.
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Old 2011-07-04, 10:32   Link #2683
aliasxn
Eye for an Eye
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
I don't like to argue someone's point by proxy, This is also the reason why I am posting here in direct response to Miki's points that was brought over to onemanga by KGL.



Short answer is that noone actually think's Yuki actions are sound. However, this sentence basically reads the motivation in the worse possible way.

What Yuki is said is not "I have been think about my ex for the whole journey", but "I have been thinking how to get rid of my ex's memories for the whole journey". I cannot help if people want to twist the actual spoken words of another person to fit what they want believe.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...08/c087/7.html

Actual spoken words. This "it doesn't matter how she phrases it" reminds me of a argument between a couple, where one side twists every word of explaination of the other to make the other side sound wrong.

"There is nothing between me and the other person, we are just friends."
"Well you sure have been getting friendly...in bed!".
I disagree. If a girl told me she just took me to all the places she had been to with her ex, that's exactly how I would take it too. That was very very tactless of her.
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Old 2011-07-04, 11:52   Link #2684
Rainrir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliasxn View Post
I disagree. If a girl told me she just took me to all the places she had been to with her ex, that's exactly how I would take it too. That was very very tactless of her.
"How you would have taken it" doesn't always equal to "what the other person is trying to say". Especially when emotions run high. Misunderstanding this reality is the basis of a hundred divorces and breakups.

Yes, it was tactless. Hence, my point that Yuki didn't handle this well at all. However, we are readers. We need to look at it from what exactly is being said.
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Old 2011-07-04, 11:52   Link #2685
MikiMata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post

Short answer is that noone actually think's Yuki actions are sound. However, this sentence basically reads the motivation in the worse possible way.

What Yuki is said is not "I have been think about my ex for the whole journey", but "I have been thinking how to get rid of my ex's memories for the whole journey". I cannot help if people want to twist the actual spoken words of another person to fit what they want believe.

Actual spoken words. This "it doesn't matter how she phrases it" reminds me of a argument between a couple, where one side twists every word of explaination of the other to make the other side sound wrong.

"There is nothing between me and the other person, we are just friends."
"Well you sure have been getting friendly...in bed!".

That kinda thing. The fact is, Yuki would not have need to do this if there was no relationship assymetry...from her having an unconcious defensive reaction during sex..which is from her left over trauma due to having sex (which ruined her life). Their relationship was progressing when until that issue mainfested. I do not understand how can someone link an unconcious action to "she is still in love with that former lover". People seem to treat this like something she can control. This is akin to telling the person with schizophrenia to stop being schizophrenic, or telling a person shivering in the cold to "stop shivering".



Utsumi is happy to have Yuki as a girlfriend now, but what about 1 year from now? 2 years? 5 years? As I said before, Utsumi has no realistic plans to talk about with Yuki at all. This point is something I had hammered in with supporting evidence from the manga pages, but everyone ignores it. Utsumi's plan is essentially 1) endure 2) be extra, extra nice to Yuki. Even up to the point of the confrontation and the immediate breakup, Utsumi was going to stick to this plan even when Yuki spelt it out for him. There is nothing wrong with these actions at all, but the are not any kind of solution.

Yuki feels this on a certain level. Which is why she asks (point 1)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...08/c087/5.html

and says (point 2)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...8/c087/14.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ge_goo...8/c087/15.html

This is not a recipe for a lasting relationship. Patience and Kindness will run out once Utsumi starts feeling that what he is doing is a chore (which he will eventually in time if they continue like this). Then what of Yuki at that time? True, Yuki is somewhat of a worrywhat, in that she sometimes overthinks about the future. However, Yuki's unlying fear for the future is not unreasonable considering Utsumi set himself out to do the unrealistic.

I am not going to put Utsumi on a pedestal and say he is a saint. Utsumi is a nice person, but he is also a normal person. However, his solution for Yuki's problems is not realistic and his actions at night reinforce that. This is also what drives Yuki to do her not-so-well-thought-out ultimatium. "but is purely to make herself feel better." assumes that Yuki would actually feel better after the breakup. This will remain to be seen, but I believe that the breakup would make Yuki feel even worse for time to come.

I do not understand the insistence to read misguided good intent solely as malicious self-protection. It is normal for a person to not want to see their loved ones suffer for them, hence the clamoring for mercy-killing in some circles. There is always multiple motivations to a person's actions, which is the same for mercy killings (which is why it is so controversial). However, people are insisting on only seeing the negative. Is it because the scenario provokes an emotional response? Logically speaking, Yuki can have motivations of protecting herself and protecting Utsumi at the same time. It could even be that she reasoned that this would be for the best for both of them.

Yuki does have flawed logic and have not considered the possible impact from her actions. What she is doing is basically tampling on Utsumi's hardwork, her assumption that Utsumi can recover from this completely is 50-50 at best, her "all or nothing" ultimatium is too hasty and not realistic. Yuki took too long a view, neglected to assess the impact of things in the short run. These are all the flaws in Yuki's thinking.

However, people seem dead set on making the intent "bad" or "lol he should have just raped her" or "she only wants a jerk". (The last two are completely missing the point of these events, not to mention only open to Utsumi because of who he is). The fundamental issue here is relationship equality, Yuki wants to give as much of herself to Utsumi as Utsumi's devotion warrants. Yuki also knows that if this inequality is to persist, they have no chance in building a lasting relationship.



Except that (sigh, I have to drag that "experience" in again I swear someone will say I am a poser again) in the treatment of PTSD, the participants are often asked to revisit the memory (if not the actual sites) of the trauma to work though the issues.

Unfortunately, Yuki's is not a professional nor can a (even qualified) individual set his/her own treatment schedule. What she did is going to be of limited effectiveness and might make things worse. What they should have done (which I had maintained from day one) is that they should get someone professional to help them. This is where her actions are wrong. Even if they don't want to immediately contact a professional (which is what people normally do), they both could have attempt to tackle the sex issue slowly, in a piecemeal fashion. Unfortunately, the two options in this scenario is "HERE AND NOW" shock therapy (Yuki) and "Buries Head in Sand" avoidance of problem (Utsumi).



Intellgience has nothing to do with people making the right or wrong choices in love at all, especially when emotions are running high. Yuki is intelligent...when the issues have nothing to do with herself. This is rather common, smart people (in my experience) make all the mistakes that normal people do, they are just better at convincing themselves what they do are not making mistakes (when they are looking at things from an overly one sided manner).

No. The breakup is completely avoidable if Utsumi or Yuki make a few different actions. I put the blame on both of them equally. The underlying issue in a breakup is whether the couple still loves each other or not. From my perspective, they do, which means they shouldn't break up.
For the record, I don't think Yuki is a bad person, nor that she is still in love with Tohru. I don't believe I stated that, either. I simply find her extremely exasperating, and think she is making very poor choices. By going only to the places she went with Tohru, she is still letting Tohru dictate her behavior - which means his memory still controls her. That is what I meant, not that somehow Yuki was pining lovingly for her old boyfriend throughout the date. It is similar to how when you hate someone, you are still letting them control you by giving them so much of your emotional life.

Also, by telling Utsumi that fact, she is planting the seed in his mind, "is she thinking of me right now, or him?" or "how do I compare to him?" In fact, Yuki knew Utsumi was wondering this, since he expressed concern about why they were going to her hometown in the first place. So, it was highly insensitive of her to tell him that, yes, in fact, instead of simply creating new memories with him, she was taking him to places where she was certain to be haunted by the ghost of Tohru - even if she is trying to exorcise that ghost from her heart.

Yuki doesn't seem willing to do the work necessary to heal herself. Breaking up with Utsumi was much easier than having to go through the slow therapeutic process you describe, which is indeed what she may have to do to overcome her trauma. That is why I find her actions cowardly. To respond to your comments regarding Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, I am personally familiar with anxiety issues as well. It takes serious commitment to changing your former thought patterns to overcome them. Whatever "love" Yuki may have for Utsumi, it wasn't enough to motivate her to attempt to work through her issues with her boyfriend. The two of them really haven't been dating for that long; they could have just slowed things down a bit (no sleeping next to him in a loose kimono might help). That is why I think she is doing this for her own immediate peace of mind rather than Utsumi's happiness. In moments of stress, it is often a matter of "fight/flight" response, and Yuki chose to flee the source of discomfort: her relationship with Utsumi.

You are correct in saying that intelligence is not the issue here. Smart people make stupid choices all the time. So, what I should have said is that the early chapters gave me no indication of how emotionally fragile and wounded Yuki really was, so her recent behavior has been a surprise to me. I suppose pain has the ability to make narcissists of us all, but the fact remains that she has hurt Utsumi badly. I still believe she must earn the right to get him back.

Oh, and KLGChaos, for what it's worth, I always enjoy reading your posts as well.
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Old 2011-07-04, 12:25   Link #2686
Rainrir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miki
For the record, I don't think Yuki is a bad person, nor that she is still in love with Tohru. I don't believe I stated that, either. I simply find her extremely exasperating, and think she is making very poor choices. By going only to the places she went with Tohru, she is still letting Tohru dictate her behavior - which means his memory still controls her. That is what I meant, not that somehow Yuki was pining lovingly for her old boyfriend throughout the date. It is similar to how when you hate someone, you are still letting them control you by giving them so much of your emotional life.
She already can't escape him because his shadow uncontrollably shows up when she is about to have sex with Utsumi. Then she shields herself instinctively, forgetting that it is Utsumi, not Tooru who is with her.

When we see how damaged she is, the of course Tooru taking up space in her psyche is to be expected. Since you put it that way, then what you mean is that Yuki isn't over the "Tooru Trauma" and what she has are not quite "feelings"....which is basically the distinction I am trying to draw.

That means we are on the same page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miki
Also, by telling Utsumi that fact, she is planting the seed in his mind, "is she thinking of me right now, or him?" or "how do I compare to him?" In fact, Yuki knew Utsumi was wondering this, since he expressed concern about why they were going to her hometown in the first place. So, it was highly insensitive of her to tell him that, yes, in fact, instead of simply creating new memories with him, she was taking him to places where she was certain to be haunted by the ghost of Tohru - even if she is trying to exorcise that ghost from her heart.
Tactless ,yes. Insensitive, yes. This is why Yuki could have done things better.

The main argument I made was to do with the non-self centred side of her intent, to either solve the problem or spare Utsumi a drawn out relationship with no future, was good or not. While her intent is good, I think her methods are misguided and wrong. I repeat, I think her intent....is mostly understandable and I don't feel they can be called absolutely wrong,.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miki
Yuki doesn't seem willing to do the work necessary to heal herself. Breaking up with Utsumi was much easier than having to go through the slow therapeutic process you describe, which is indeed what she may have to do to overcome her trauma. That is why I find her actions cowardly. To respond to your comments regarding Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, I am personally familiar with anxiety issues as well. It takes serious commitment to changing your former thought patterns to overcome them. Whatever "love" Yuki may have for Utsumi, it wasn't enough to motivate her to attempt to work through her issues with her boyfriend. The two of them really haven't been dating for that long; they could have just slowed things down a bit (no sleeping next to him in a loose kimono might help). That is why I think she is doing this for her own immediate peace of mind rather than Utsumi's happiness. In moments of stress, it is often a matter of "fight/flight" response, and Yuki chose to flee the source of discomfort: her relationship with Utsumi.
Well, to be fair, she did offer him the "alternative" to "solve" the problem there and then. The problem was that her "problem solving" as you said, is not going to work. I think Yuki misunderstands how she can solve the problem. She feels "Shock Therapy" would work, but as you (and I) know it doesn't work like that. Her backup for her "failure" to solve the problem, is to breakup...which has elements of "running away" and "it is better in the long term for Utsumi".

Good Intent, but flawed execution and thinking.

Yuki wasn't fully rational because she forced herself into a "two extremes plan". There is a logic behind her plan, but it is onesided and did not cover all the bases. This is another place where she can do things better. However, I wouldn't go to say Yuki DOESN'T want to solve the problem (that would be Utsumi). It is just that she is misguided in thinking that the problem can be solved in her way and not giving herself another option to solve the problem. By virtue of trying to actually take action, I would say that Yuki tried more than Utsumi to solve the problem. Utsumi only took action to avoid the problem (he does it because he cares for Yuki though, but again avoiding the problem is not a solution for the long term).

What Yuki is more guilty of is being too hasty. In her mind, it is either "PROBLEM SOLVED HERE AND NOW" or "THERE IS NO HOPE AT ALL". She is wrong there. This is bad thinking on Yuki's part, but let's not forget she is the one with the trauma, fear and feelings of guilt (to Utsumi). That sorta explains why she comes up with a extreme solutiion like this.

Last edited by Rainrir; 2011-07-04 at 12:56.
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Old 2011-07-04, 14:46   Link #2687
KLGChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
"How you would have taken it" doesn't always equal to "what the other person is trying to say". Especially when emotions run high. Misunderstanding this reality is the basis of a hundred divorces and breakups.

Yes, it was tactless. Hence, my point that Yuki didn't handle this well at all. However, we are readers. We need to look at it from what exactly is being said.
That's hard to do for many people, Rainrir. The reason people read mangas, watch movies, listen to music and play video games is due to the emotion they bring out in people. For many, looking at it completely objectively and stoically is very difficult. Some people can't turn off their emotions or really look at things from a more logical point of view, as some people are more driven by their emotions. I tend to be someone who reacts emotionally at first, but after a little bit of thought, I calm down and can think things through from a more rational perspective, because I've got a more scientific, logical based mind. However, I've met many people in my life who can't do that. As you said, it's why people break up all the time.

I've stated most of my personal feelings on the issue over on OM. I felt neither one handled the situation that great, due to a lack of ability to communicate or work through things. Utsumi needs to make some concessions and stop repeating himself over and over and instead prove what he's trying to say by finding another way of helping Yuki.

Yuki, despite convincing herself she's doing all this for Utsumi, is obviously not quite as self-sacrificing as she may believe herself to be (hard to tell, because we don't get a real insight into her mind, like we do with Utsumi). If she explained to Utsumi what she was doing he may have been more accepting of going down memory lane with her as a form of therapy (well, up until she asked him to basically rape her in the old library-- that went WAY overboard). In the end, as MikiMata said, part of it is selfishness on her part, too. She may have good intentions, believing that Utsumi will be happy with someone else, but they've only been dealing with this sex problem for a couple of weeks and she's already pushing him away because she can't handle the guilt and is at the same time disregarding his feelings in the matter. On top of that, her trauma really has dictated pretty much how she's handled everything in her life-- from the Ice Queen persona to needing to find out if there's still nice guys out there to pushing Utsumi away multiple times.


I still believe that Sasuga is overdramatizing the whole thing (I know you mentioned that the original version was going to be much darker until her editor struck the idea down-- with good reason, I think, it IS a shounen magazine despite catering to an older audience and the original concept lends itself more to Seinen). Sasuga carried that darker aspect over to this new form of trauma, treating it as a much worse scenario, but also as you said, however unlikely it for her to connect the betrayal by Tooru to sex, it can happen. It's a manga, so pushing the boundaries of belief is to be expected. And while it may be true that they can't just talk their way through this problem (seriously, if what Tooru did messed her up this badly, she NEEDS professional help), they barely even tried to communicate their own feelings, which spells doom for any relationship.
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Old 2011-07-05, 04:56   Link #2688
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Spoiler for 88:
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Old 2011-07-05, 04:58   Link #2689
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A very depressing chapter.
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Old 2011-07-05, 06:32   Link #2690
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A very depressing chapter.
Comment 88 raw..
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Old 2011-07-05, 09:04   Link #2691
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Old 2011-07-05, 09:39   Link #2692
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Let's just all hope that Yuki would be able to notice it. I just want read now the full translation of this chapter.
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Old 2011-07-05, 10:32   Link #2693
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Location: Where hot girls are fighting!
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spoiler
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-07-05, 12:18   Link #2694
solomon
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
So, yea I bet MOST people were calling that one.....
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Old 2011-07-05, 19:41   Link #2695
jzmagic
flargansbog
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for 88:


I don't want to see him mope around all depressed for another 10 chapters. I hope Yuasa helps him to move on from Yuki. It'd be nice if Yuasa comforted him in his time of need, and then they got together. Third time's a charm right?
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Old 2011-07-05, 19:48   Link #2696
Lexxus
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Age: 25
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my anime list kuroneko my manga list
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Old 2011-07-05, 21:33   Link #2697
Mughi
Wordy b@stard
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mid-Tejas
This series is about one thing:

Self esteem.

(or the lack of it and how it colors one's decisions.)

When you look at each character's self esteem, it tells you everything you need about their motivations and subsequent actions. Everything I've read so far has been in alignment with each character's level of self esteem. I'm still enjoying watching how the players in this manga deals with their own issues... or side step them. Very well written.
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Old 2011-07-05, 21:49   Link #2698
MikiMata
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California Dreamin'
Awww. Darn.
Spoiler:
The next few chapters are going to be a bumpy ride. And I agree that this manga is well-written; it has really made me care about the characters and how they work through their issues. It is definitely angst-ridden drama, but it's executed skillfully, IMO.
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Old 2011-07-06, 00:23   Link #2699
vansonbee
❤Ichigo 100%❤
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by MikiMata View Post
Awww. Darn.
Spoiler:
The next few chapters are going to be a bumpy ride. And I agree that this manga is well-written; it has really made me care about the characters and how they work through their issues. It is definitely angst-ridden drama, but it's executed skillfully, IMO.
Utsumi being fully depress like that is normal for him... his characterization is being kind and emotional.
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Old 2011-07-06, 03:07   Link #2700
Merilyn Mensola
I am a Boxer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where hot girls are fighting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
Utsumi being fully depress like that is normal for him... his characterization is being kind and emotional.
this is true ...
he's still young.,. And Yuki was his first girlfriend...And everyone know his character...
I wonder if Risa is going to fight Yuki.. This time....
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