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Old 2011-07-06, 22:38   Link #3201
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Wow. Is there any elaboration on the two?

And what about Hayate? What was her reason for joining the Ground Forces?
Part of the reason was being absolutely lousy at actual combat.
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Old 2011-07-06, 23:05   Link #3202
Tiresias
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Pretty sure the Air Force would appreciate her long-range airborne bombardment skills just like how real militaries found use in beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles and bomber-launched cruise missiles. Or is it stated somewhere that the Air Force only owns fighter-equivalents and support units go to the CGF?
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Old 2011-07-06, 23:52   Link #3203
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Wow. Is there any elaboration on the two?
Not much besides what I already mentioned.
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Old 2011-07-06, 23:53   Link #3204
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Pretty sure the Air Force would appreciate her long-range airborne bombardment skills just like how real militaries found use in beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles and bomber-launched cruise missiles. Or is it stated somewhere that the Air Force only owns fighter-equivalents and support units go to the CGF?
I'm sure they would appreciate her skills--however, Hayate felt that she'd be of far more use to the Ground Forces with her training for command.
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Old 2011-07-07, 00:03   Link #3205
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I'm sure they would appreciate her skills--however, Hayate felt that she'd be of far more use to the Ground Forces with her training for command.
But... the Ground Forces have the dreariest uniforms.
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Old 2011-07-07, 00:41   Link #3206
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
But... the Ground Forces have the dreariest uniforms.
Then her ultimate plan must be to get so high she can change the uniforms into something much more snazzier.
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Old 2011-07-07, 00:48   Link #3207
Tiresias
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OF COURSE!!!

Well then, is there a reason why she choose command instead of others?
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Old 2011-07-07, 00:48   Link #3208
Koveras Alvane
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Then her ultimate plan must be to get so high she can change the uniforms into something much more snazzier.
Oh. OH! Now I get it. With your permission, I would like to post that under Nanoha WMG on TV Tropes, if I may?
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Old 2011-07-07, 00:49   Link #3209
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By all means, be my guest. :V
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Old 2011-07-07, 06:15   Link #3210
Tiresias
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Is there a specific reason why Hayate can only cast high-powered spell? If it's just a matter of power level, Nanoha is S+ while Hayate is SS, so there's not much of a difference.
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Old 2011-07-07, 08:46   Link #3211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Is there a specific reason why Hayate can only cast high-powered spell? If it's just a matter of power level, Nanoha is S+ while Hayate is SS, so there's not much of a difference.
Bear in mind that the cannon fodder are Rank-A, which is also "technically" one rank below Nanoha. Suffice to say, the power measurement is not linear.

Additionally, there are different categories of ranking.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-07-07, 08:56   Link #3212
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This discussion of rankings reminds me.

There exists a numerical power rating, as it was used to describe Nanoha v Fate in season 1 by Chrono. Was it ever mentioned again, or was it basically shelved for the more relative letter ranks?

IIRC, both of them were already 1,000,000+.
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Old 2011-07-07, 09:12   Link #3213
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Bear in mind that the cannon fodder are Rank-A, which is also "technically" one rank below Nanoha. Suffice to say, the power measurement is not linear.
Wait, I just wrote that Nanoha is S+. How is A one rank below that?

How are they sorted anyway? I was under the impression it went something like this:
SSS>SS+>SS>S+>S
AAA>AA+>AA>A+>A
and so on.

And if there are many categories, what are they and what do they mean?
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Old 2011-07-07, 11:10   Link #3214
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Is there a specific reason why Hayate can only cast high-powered spell? If it's just a matter of power level, Nanoha is S+ while Hayate is SS, so there's not much of a difference.
The most common explanation is that she inherited all her spells from Reinforce and Rein only had world-shattering stuff at her disposal. She herself, however, was too lazy (or just uninterested) in learning personal combat magic, especially with the Wolkies literally ready to die defending her. Remember that she was never particularly interested in magic (unlike Nanoha).

Also, it is said in A's manga that she kept breaking Bureau-constructed Devices with her sheer power output, and in StrikerS, she requires either Rein or Long Arch guidance to aim her spells properly. It is therefore likely that not being born with that kind of power, she is not really able to control how much of it and where she applies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
There exists a numerical power rating, as it was used to describe Nanoha v Fate in season 1 by Chrono. Was it ever mentioned again, or was it basically shelved for the more relative letter ranks?

IIRC, both of them were already 1,000,000+.
It is only used in the first season and only once. My guess is that it refers to the Bureau's estimate of N&F's raw mana output in whatever units they are measured in. Just like a scouter. The letter ranks, on the other hand, denote mainly how many Bureau mage exams the individual has passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Wait, I just wrote that Nanoha is S+. How is A one rank below that?
It is not. There are two ranks between them (AAA and AA; the plus is just a modifier).

Quote:
How are they sorted anyway? I was under the impression it went something like this:
SSS>SS+>SS>S+>S
AAA>AA+>AA>A+>A
and so on.
Other such scales (cf. Devil May Cry, for instance) are usually sorted like this: SSS > SS > S > AAA > AA > A > B > C > ... . The plus and minus modifiers show whether the mage is significantly above or slightly below the ability requirements to attain their current rank.

Quote:
And if there are many categories, what are they and what do they mean?
Well, as I said earlier, the rank mainly means how difficult an exam you have already passed. Subaru and Teana were going for their B-rank exam in ep1 of StrikerS and flunked it. My guess is, something similar happens to every Bureau mage regularly in their career, kinda like IT consultants have to renew their Certified Specialist licenses every year.

As for the double and triple ranks, I guess that it was originally (in the newly-founded Bureau) just a scale from A to E, ranging from their then-top mages to muggles. Then someone of Ace-level power and skill was ranked and awarded with an S-rank, which eventually stopped being a unique rank. At some point, mages appeared who were stronger than A-ranks but not-quite-S-yet, so the interim ranks of AA and AAA were inserted, and so on...

Of course, that's all a fanwank, Tsuzuki probably just took the scale from some other work and slapped it onto anything with a power level.
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Old 2011-07-07, 11:19   Link #3215
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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
IIRC, both of them were already 1,000,000+.
I'm not that impressed, probably that translates into slightly above 4000 by Frieza's Army standards.
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Old 2011-07-07, 11:37   Link #3216
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I'm not that impressed, probably that translates into slightly above 4000 by Frieza's Army standards.
I was more thinking that if you start that high in numerical representation on a pair of prepubescent mages, the numbers are only going to get higher and we'd have started to refer to them with units (1,056K! 1,589K! 2M!). And it'd fall into the very same trap of power inflation DBZ did.
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Old 2011-07-07, 11:40   Link #3217
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The reason why Hayate is unable to fight effectively in combat, unlike Nanoha and Fate and others, is because she is unable to effectively process her mana due to the vast amount of it she has. Without Rein, she's basically only able to act as the universe's most powerful artillery piece. Hayate's mage rank of SS is only a composite rank, and is only indicative of her massive mana reserves and her raw, destructive potential, and has nothing to do with her skill in combat.

Actually, the numerical power rating was mentioned again in StrikerS, by Uno when Fate used the Sonic Drive. She merely remarked that her values were going up... and then she got tied up by Verossa.
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Old 2011-07-07, 14:59   Link #3218
Keroko
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Bear in mind that the cannon fodder are Rank-A, which is also "technically" one rank below Nanoha. Suffice to say, the power measurement is not linear.
Cannon fodder is B-rank tops, actually. And even those are rare, booklets specifically mention B-rank to be an "impassible wall" for most people.

Quote:
魔導師ランク試験 – Mage Rank Examination
As the judicial administrator in the inter-dimensional world, the Time Space Adminstration Bureau established the “Mage Rank Examinations” as a form of qualifications assessment for mages. Depending on the direction of magical training, the examination is classified into healing, development, scholarship, and other fields of study; the mage ranking for battle-related magic is split depending on the area where it is to be used, namely Ground or Air battle. These mage ranks do not simply measure magic power or the strength of combat abilities. Instead, they are proof of “the ability to accomplish the prescribed actions in a course of study.”
Also, on average Armed Forces member are usually ranked D~C, while B rank is known to many Air/Ground mages to be an unpassable wall at first.
So yeah, most mages you see walking around will be D or C rank tops. Even the B ranks are already elites.
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Old 2011-07-07, 15:02   Link #3219
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I think what Skane was referring to were all of the flying mage troops we saw in the final battle of StrikerS.
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Old 2011-07-07, 15:20   Link #3220
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I don't see how they're higher ranked. Though if you're talking about the manga page, it doesn't say "you need to be at least A-ranked to fly" but "you need to be at least A-ranked to get to skip your mandatory years in the Ground Force."
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Last edited by Keroko; 2011-07-07 at 15:33.
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