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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 6 14.63%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 29.27%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 24.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 24.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 4.88%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.44%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-07-11, 13:07   Link #61
Sol Falling
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Making Yuina a weak character...is weak. So she was just a spoiled and conceited brat this whole time, huh. There goes any interest I actually I had in her.

Anyway, lol at some of this 'courtship' talk popping up. But I'm down with hatin' on Kou, actually. Frankly, Yousuke does also come off pretty bad in this as well. There is one idea that is floating around in the show and in this thread which is pretty damned correct, and that is 'thinking about the other party'. Yeah, Yousuke, your dull ass completely screwed that up with the waitresses, but his approach to romance is honestly equally terrible too. It's actually the exact same issue. "I only want a girl who will become my inn's Okami/head waitress"--or should I say, "I only want employees who will actually work hard and take the job seriously". Well that's great, doofus, but why don't you try to figure out whether or why somebody would want to actually do that for you?

As for Kou, let me also throw my two cents in. The criticisms are correct, at least insofar as he is never actually thinking of her. Is Kou being 'considerate' of Ohana by thinking he shouldn't pressure her? No, 'cause hell if he were being actually considerate, he wouldn't have confessed in the first place. The hell is up with building up a 'friendship' while harbouring private delusions only to suddenly spring them out in a confession she can't possibly respond to? But really, even after that, the genuine thing to do would have been to apologize, tell her that she doesn't need to worry about his feelings and to take a break for a while, and then let her sort her shit out before trying again to get her answer. "I'm still waiting without actually saying anything"? That's real passive-aggressive shit if I've ever seen it.

Well, and just for completeness' sake, lol, Tohru's not much better. Seriously, don't fall in love with a girl if you haven't got anything to offer her. A relationship's a two-way street. I think it's in poor taste to make sweeping generalizations like 'women want emotional security' (because as humans, we are all different and individuals) but the idea is there--think about the other party. It is not simply anyone's 'right' to just fall in love and have feelings for someone for your own self-satisfaction--if you've got any decency, there should be a real commitment in turn towards making yourself something worth loving also. Tohru's stupid crush, just like Yousuke's, is based on no actual consideration for the other party.

:P In essence, if I haven't made it clear, I'm not a fan of the 'romance' in Hanasaku Iroha. All of these self-absorbed dorks are insufferable as all hell, actually. lol, I would've jumped on the Ohana x Yuina yuri bandwagon a week back, but with this week's new Yuina 'character depth' she's lost all potency as an actual foil or strong counterpart to Ohana's character. :P Well, frankly, this show isn't really much more than junk entertainment for me anyways, so I did manage to wring some enjoyment out of this episode. On a pure fluff entertainment scale, I could probably call this episode an 8 (ohai there Nako, and hello onsen scene ). Hanasaku Iroha's rating has just about sunk back to zero though in terms of, for me, actually interesting characters and relationships.
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Old 2011-07-11, 13:28   Link #62
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Would Minchi really have been able to buy sake for Ren? Like how all the girls helped out. Even Yuina worked for the first time. Sounded like she really does like Yonosuke even though she didn't want to work at an inn. Did i hear a bit of jealousy when from her when he was praising Ohana. Never thought Yuina would work let alone think about working at an inn now. Lol Jiromaru didn't like his gift, blame Minchi for not getting him something perverted.
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Old 2011-07-11, 13:39   Link #63
Grey
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LOL, yet another episode thread hijacked for Kou-bashing... And he didn't even get a flashback this week. Amazing.
When did it even switch on to this topic? I don't even want to go back and look. I guess this show pulls in an audience that is easily polarized.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
As for Kou, let me also throw my two cents in. The criticisms are correct, at least insofar as he is never actually thinking of her. Is Kou being 'considerate' of Ohana by thinking he shouldn't pressure her? No, 'cause hell if he were being actually considerate, he wouldn't have confessed in the first place. The hell is up with building up a 'friendship' while harbouring private delusions only to suddenly spring them out in a confession she can't possibly respond to?
There's a difference between "considerate" and "selfless". And what's with "friendship" in quotation marks? We have no reason to think the friendship wasn't genuine. Actually, we don't really know how long they've been friends at all, or how they met.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
But really, even after that, the genuine thing to do would have been to apologize, tell her that she doesn't need to worry about his feelings and to take a break for a while, and then let her sort her shit out before trying again to get her answer. "I'm still waiting without actually saying anything"? That's real passive-aggressive shit if I've ever seen it.
Passive aggressive nothing. They talked on the phone just fine afterwards. But bringing it up again could have just made things awkward again. Not bringing it up is exactly letting her sort her shit out. It was the girl and Tohru who pushed the issue.

Last edited by Grey; 2011-07-11 at 13:51.
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:01   Link #64
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Anyway, lol at some of this 'courtship' talk popping up. But I'm down with hatin' on Kou, actually. Frankly, Yousuke does also come off pretty bad in this as well. There is one idea that is floating around in the show and in this thread which is pretty damned correct, and that is 'thinking about the other party'. Yeah, Yousuke, your dull ass completely screwed that up with the waitresses, but his approach to romance is honestly equally terrible too. It's actually the exact same issue. "I only want a girl who will become my inn's Okami/head waitress"--or should I say, "I only want employees who will actually work hard and take the job seriously". Well that's great, doofus, but why don't you try to figure out whether or why somebody would want to actually do that for you?
It's only really shocking if you look at it entirely from a western romantic POV, where romance in and of itself is the ultimate reason for a relationship/marriage and that prioritizing anything before that is sacrilegious. I think one reason Hanasaku Iroha has been a bit contentious with western fans at times, is because it DOES delve into the traditional aspects of Japanese culture that often seem alien.


Lets look at this frankly. It sounds like Yuina's and Yousuke's engagement isn't something they thought up when they were kids. It sounded like it was something that their parents arranged. And lets be honest here. A major aspect to some kind of agreement like that being made probably has to do with their status as heirs to major inns and their presumed future status of working at an inn in the future. Yuina's honest explanation of not wanting to work at an inn does bring to question the foundation of their engagement. Especially given the cultural expectations of being the wife of the owner of the inn.


It's something that culturally I think allot of westerners aren't comfortable with seeing.
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:06   Link #65
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Making Yuina a weak character...is weak. So she was just a spoiled and conceited brat this whole time, huh. There goes any interest I actually I had in her.

Anyway, lol at some of this 'courtship' talk popping up. But I'm down with hatin' on Kou, actually. Frankly, Yousuke does also come off pretty bad in this as well. There is one idea that is floating around in the show and in this thread which is pretty damned correct, and that is 'thinking about the other party'. Yeah, Yousuke, your dull ass completely screwed that up with the waitresses, but his approach to romance is honestly equally terrible too. It's actually the exact same issue. "I only want a girl who will become my inn's Okami/head waitress"--or should I say, "I only want employees who will actually work hard and take the job seriously". Well that's great, doofus, but why don't you try to figure out whether or why somebody would want to actually do that for you?
Actually, I thought it was... good? He knows what he wants, and he's upfront about it. And apparently it doesn't include a woman who'd be okami for him. She has to want it too. (The way he handled the part-timers was atrocious, I don't deny it. But the problematic is different from a wife-hunt.)

Still, two questions bug me: how much older than Yuina is he, and how old were they when he proposed?

Quote:
As for Kou, let me also throw my two cents in. The criticisms are correct, at least insofar as he is never actually thinking of her. Is Kou being 'considerate' of Ohana by thinking he shouldn't pressure her? No, 'cause hell if he were being actually considerate, he wouldn't have confessed in the first place. The hell is up with building up a 'friendship' while harbouring private delusions only to suddenly spring them out in a confession she can't possibly respond to? But really, even after that, the genuine thing to do would have been to apologize, tell her that she doesn't need to worry about his feelings and to take a break for a while, and then let her sort her shit out before trying again to get her answer. "I'm still waiting without actually saying anything"? That's real passive-aggressive shit if I've ever seen it.

Well, and just for completeness' sake, lol, Tohru's not much better. Seriously, don't fall in love with a girl if you haven't got anything to offer her. A relationship's a two-way street. I think it's in poor taste to make sweeping generalizations like 'women want emotional security' (because as humans, we are all different and individuals) but the idea is there--think about the other party. It is not simply anyone's 'right' to just fall in love and have feelings for someone for your own self-satisfaction--if you've got any decency, there should be a real commitment in turn towards making yourself something worth loving also. Tohru's stupid crush, just like Yousuke's, is based on no actual consideration for the other party.
Meh. Aside from judging whether he's a datable guy or not, wait till he confesses before leveling that kind of criticism at him. So far, he hasn't done anything to bother Ohana with his crush.
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:29   Link #66
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No, 'cause hell if he were being actually considerate, he wouldn't have confessed in the first place.
So it's your position that Ko should just bottle up his feelings for Ohana, no matter how strongly he feels them, and no matter how great a need he feels to give vent to them?

As for being "actually" considerate, how is Ohana being considerate by leaving Ko completely hanging for several months?


Quote:
The hell is up with building up a 'friendship' while harbouring private delusions only to suddenly spring them out in a confession she can't possibly respond to?
So it's your position that friendship can never turn into romance?

Why exactly can't Ohana respond to his romantic confession?


Quote:
But really, even after that, the genuine thing to do would have been to apologize,
Ko is the one who should apologize?!

If anybody should apologize, it's Ohana, for leaving the poor guy completely hanging for several months.


Quote:
tell her that she doesn't need to worry about his feelings and to take a break for a while, and then let her sort her shit out before trying again to get her answer. "I'm still waiting without actually saying anything"? That's real passive-aggressive shit if I've ever seen it.
It's not passive-aggressive at all. It's very patient, and very forthright.


Quote:

Well, and just for completeness' sake, lol, Tohru's not much better. Seriously, don't fall in love with a girl if you haven't got anything to offer her.
... Where do you get this idea that "falling in love with someone" is a completely optional thing?

It often isn't. People often can't help falling in love with someone.

"Can't help falling in love" was even the name of an Elvis Presley song.

I'm pretty sure the line "I can't help falling in love with you" (or something to that effect) has been in countless love songs too.


Quote:
Tohru's stupid crush, just like Yousuke's, is based on no actual consideration for the other party.
Again, where do you get this idea that crushes are things that people can help having, or not having? Generally speaking, they're not.

You can control how you act upon a crush (which Tohru has done, by the way), but you generally can't help simply having them.

As for Ko, why should he think that Ohana sees nothing at all in him? Clearly, Ohana values him quite a bit, and the two were close friends. I personally think that a good friendship is often a good basis for a romance later on. Obviously not every friendship will turn into a romance, but I see nothing at all wrong with that relationship evolution in some cases.

As for Yosuke, it's pretty telling, don't you think, how strongly Yuina reacted to the idea that Yosuke might go after Ohana instead? It's a bit of a dickish move for Yosuke to raise that idea to Yuina, but at the same time, I found it pretty inconsiderate of Yuina to give Yosuke a response that he didn't want to hear in the heat of the moment of a bunch of employees quitting on him (oh, and while she also publicly blamed him for them quitting, IIRC).

Hmmm... maybe Yosuke and Yuina deserve one another. Both actually do seem a bit passive-aggressive to me.
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:45   Link #67
Anh_Minh
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As for Yosuke, it's pretty telling, don't you think, how strongly Yuina reacted to the idea that Yosuke might go after Ohana instead?
I find it ambiguous. Is it about Yosuke himself, or just her pride? I'm leaning toward the latter.

Quote:
It's a bit of a dickish move for Yosuke to raise that idea to Yuina, but at the same time, I found it pretty inconsiderate of Yuina to give Yosuke a response that he didn't want to hear in the heat of the moment of a bunch of employees quitting on him (oh, and while she also publicly blamed him for them quitting, IIRC).
Not undeservedly, but yeah. There are times where you have to stick by your family, even when they're wrong. (Or at least refrain from kicking them when they're down until you can get them in private.)
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:47   Link #68
Grey
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Ko is the one who should apologize?!

If anybody should apologize, it's Ohana, for leaving the poor guy completely hanging for several months.
She did feel guilty and indirectly apologize to him, saying she'd been terrible. But it would be fine even if she didn't apologize. Not responding is an answer in itself, and whether Kou chose to wait or not was entirely his decision. So I don't think either of them really need to apologize.

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I find it ambiguous. Is it about Yosuke himself, or just her pride? I'm leaning toward the latter.
I'd say it's both. If that guy she turned down said he liked Ohana more? I don't think she'd care that much. Not so much that she'd show off until she got blisters.
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:55   Link #69
Triple_R
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She did feel guilty and indirectly apologize to him, saying she'd been terrible. But it would be fine even if she didn't apologize. Not responding is an answer in itself, and whether Kou chose to wait or not was entirely his decision.
Well, you can interpret a non-response to be a "no", but for two close friends, that's a bit risky.

If Ohana saw Ko and his co-worker at the library as out-and-out boyfriend and girlfriend, that likely would have emotionally upset her more than she actually did end up getting upset.

Still, I don't think Ohana needs to apologize to Ko. Just that she has more reason to apologize than he does, imo.
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Old 2011-07-11, 15:06   Link #70
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Ko wasn't even mentioned in this episode and yet there's still a debate about him
He is in the opening song

Seriously, his time on screen is so limited, it is hard to make a proper judgement at this point
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Old 2011-07-11, 15:37   Link #71
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Making Yuina a weak character...is weak. So she was just a spoiled and conceited brat this whole time, huh. There goes any interest I actually I had in her.
But that was kind of the point. She is indecisive and self centered; I think that serves as a sufficient foil to everyone else who is dedicated to the inn. I mean, why should she have to follow along when her fiance isn't good at it anyways?

My problem was that the show just made her look extremely bad and hammered into the audience's faces that INN GOOD, everyone who doesn't agree with that is just plain irresponsible and it really seems to me that by saying Yousuke loves girls like Ohana is really just the writer taking over and deciding the dilemma for you in order to justify the plot. The execution is hamfisted.

Quote:
:P In essence, if I haven't made it clear, I'm not a fan of the 'romance' in Hanasaku Iroha. All of these self-absorbed dorks are insufferable as all hell, actually.
It's hard to develop a proper romance (or even character relationship) when the male characters are hardly characters to begin with. They could stereotyped into their traits easily, into a few sentences each.

And with Ohana getting flanderized and exaggerated into some kind of busybody shounen superhero, I felt a terrible disconnect with her character this episode. I could accept her previous rash decisions by considering her personality. because it had relevance to people around here. Here, we're just repeating the cycle of Ohana finds something she feels passionate for, humiliates herself and everyone none for the better just to move the plot along and maybe generate a few useful laughs.

The Verdict? Ohana (and maybe her mom and grandmother) are the only characters worth a damn. This episode lacked 2 of these characters and had the lead underperform. I'll go far as to say that this show turns to crap any time the camera is not pointed into Ohana within the last 5 minutes. So lol at romance. I'd take the romance in Shakugan no Shana any day over this. And no that's not a compliment.

But oh well, at least it's pretty and kinda funny at times. IMO, the show should just focus on developing the bond between the 3 generations of the inn. The rest I can live without.
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Old 2011-07-11, 16:27   Link #72
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I worry a little, too, that every supporting character is going to have an arc. We've had Tomoe, Yuina, Satsuki, next week looks like Uncle Enishi. Then a Nako arc (supposedly) and there's still the Minko arc we were supposed to get next week.

Sometimes supporting characters are supporting for a reason, and it's too distracting to keep detouring from the main road. Some of these stories were necessary (Satsuki, especially) but I don't know if I want all of them to get an arc devoted to them.
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Old 2011-07-11, 17:14   Link #73
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I worry a little, too, that every supporting character is going to have an arc. We've had Tomoe, Yuina, Satsuki, next week looks like Uncle Enishi. Then a Nako arc (supposedly) and there's still the Minko arc we were supposed to get next week.

Sometimes supporting characters are supporting for a reason, and it's too distracting to keep detouring from the main road. Some of these stories were necessary (Satsuki, especially) but I don't know if I want all of them to get an arc devoted to them.
If this is the case, hopefully it's a single episode for Enishi, and the rest of the episodes are for Nako/Minko and to close up the series, probably involving a lot of Sui. I doubt many people want arcs for Ren or Beanman. Tohru can probably be lumped into Minko's arc.
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Old 2011-07-11, 17:25   Link #74
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Next episode from what I gathered from the summary is about business and the union in the Ryokan. It probably links to Enishi also.
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Old 2011-07-11, 17:43   Link #75
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I worry a little, too, that every supporting character is going to have an arc. We've had Tomoe, Yuina, Satsuki, next week looks like Uncle Enishi. Then a Nako arc (supposedly) and there's still the Minko arc we were supposed to get next week.

Sometimes supporting characters are supporting for a reason, and it's too distracting to keep detouring from the main road. Some of these stories were necessary (Satsuki, especially) but I don't know if I want all of them to get an arc devoted to them.
If this anime ends with a good strong finishing arc, including a satisfying ending, I'll be fine with these character arcs.

But that is a pretty big "If", of course.

If we don't get that good strong finishing arc, then I'll be inclined to agree with you that maybe the anime overdid it on supporting character episodes/arcs, and it didn't leave enough time for a good finale.

We'll just have to wait and see on that count though.
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Old 2011-07-11, 17:50   Link #76
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If we don't get that good strong finishing arc, then I'll be inclined to agree with you that maybe the anime overdid it on supporting character episodes/arcs, and it didn't leave enough time for a good finale.

We'll just have to wait and see on that count though.
Well to be fair? I'm one of those people who really likes the supporting character plot lines that we've gotten so far. If if the final turns into a bit of a flub, we'll still have those to enjoy and treasure.
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Old 2011-07-11, 17:59   Link #77
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I'm just not convinced about any of these side characters. While sometimes these side arcs have earned a few smiles and laughs, the development each character is getting is pretty lack luster as far as I am concerned.

I mean of course the males in this show have been pretty worthless, but besides Ohana's family and perhaps Kou, there's been nothing of interest in this show.

Side cast of this show has been a big thorn in its side.
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Old 2011-07-11, 19:42   Link #78
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I fucking love them, give me more of everyone.

Let's do the old man next!
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Old 2011-07-11, 20:57   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I worry a little, too, that every supporting character is going to have an arc. We've had Tomoe, Yuina, Satsuki, next week looks like Uncle Enishi. Then a Nako arc (supposedly) and there's still the Minko arc we were supposed to get next week.

Sometimes supporting characters are supporting for a reason, and it's too distracting to keep detouring from the main road. Some of these stories were necessary (Satsuki, especially) but I don't know if I want all of them to get an arc devoted to them.
what exactly is the main road? Ko/Ohana drama? All the side stories revolve around Ohana in someway, so I don't see the problem, it is a 26 episode series after all, and the plot isn't really that serious, I don't see a problem letting all the cast shine at some point. If it was just back and forth with Ko and Ohana, it would be a very boring 26 episodes.
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Old 2011-07-11, 21:27   Link #80
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So it's your position that Ko should just bottle up his feelings for Ohana, no matter how strongly he feels them, and no matter how great a need he feels to give vent to them?
It all depends if Ohana loves him as a friend or loves him as a lover.

As far as we've seen with the confrontation with the other girl she loves him as a friend.

Once or so in our lives we go through infatuations. Which is a temporary thing and can happen among best friends of opposite sex. Once a party confesses its a point of no return.

Guys work with their brains and dicks while girls are all about emotional security.

Ohana was emotionally secure with Ko as her friend now she is insecure thinking of him as a potential lover.

Ko isn't confident enough and hasn't worked to earn Ohana's trust as a lover.
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