AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Hanasaku Iroha

Notices

View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 6 14.63%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 29.27%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 24.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 24.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 4.88%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.44%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-07-11, 21:51   Link #81
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soconfused View Post
what exactly is the main road? Ko/Ohana drama? All the side stories revolve around Ohana in someway, so I don't see the problem, it is a 26 episode series after all, and the plot isn't really that serious, I don't see a problem letting all the cast shine at some point. If it was just back and forth with Ko and Ohana, it would be a very boring 26 episodes.
How about Ohana's coming-of-age story, which is more or less what I thought the main plot of the series was? What's the point in having two cours if you're going to spend one of them almost entirely on supporting characters of varying relevance to the central plot?
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-11, 22:05   Link #82
Archon_Wing
Throw it on the ground
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mists
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
IMO, they have until episode 18 to make a timing push, otherwise they're gonna get outmacroed have a really rushed ending.

So they still have a little more time to meander around, but it should really be preparing its trump card.
__________________
You just try again... through the darkness.You just go away... the future is waiting for us!
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-11, 22:15   Link #83
Soconfused
Old God Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: you....don't wanna know
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to Soconfused
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
How about Ohana's coming-of-age story, which is more or less what I thought the main plot of the series was? What's the point in having two cours if you're going to spend one of them almost entirely on supporting characters of varying relevance to the central plot?
Well, I would like to think the show was more than just about Ohana, a lot of the side characters (mostly the girls) get plenty of screen time themselves, and have become just as popular, and have their own coming of age stories to tell.

as long as Tohru doesn't get any episodes I'll be happy.
__________________
What exactly is the point of becoming powerful if one cannot indulge the hedonistic opportunities that come with it?
Soconfused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-11, 23:35   Link #84
deadite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
I agree with Soconfused. All the side arcs with the main girls maybe bar Tomoe are all connected to Ohana in some way. Also the next episode preview is kind of misleading because the summary is about how the union of the Ryokans are trying to deal with Yunosagi Silas and the episode after that is about a movie being shot in the Ryokan that may help boost publicity. I'm also betting an episode about Minko will definetely involve Ohana.
deadite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-11, 23:55   Link #85
sylviana
Aikawa Kizuna is PRETTY !
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neo-Venezia
Quote:
Someone like the messy haired girl
Hey, look! Ohana is building her harem again now!
__________________

sylviana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 01:41   Link #86
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
How about Ohana's coming-of-age story, which is more or less what I thought the main plot of the series was? What's the point in having two cours if you're going to spend one of them almost entirely on supporting characters of varying relevance to the central plot?
Considering how intertwined Ohana's coming of age and the inn itself seem to be, I'd say that Enishi and Sui are probably pretty relevant. And I still have my suspicions that Tomoe's episode was put in to set up an eventual Enishi/Tomoe hook up.

Of course, for that to happen we'd need the consultant out of the picture... this is one reason I'm actually really interested in seeing how next week's Enishi focused episode plays out.

*****************************

As for the episode itself, I find my feelings on the point of the episode are similar to Reckoner's:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...0&postcount=42

While I liked the episode, I felt it was one of the weaker ones in the series. And as with episode 9, I felt it was weaker than the first half of the two parter. In both cases, the episode setting up the crisis was more interesting to me than one about resolving it. I think this is in part because while this show is good at making tense situations, Ohana's solutions tend to be a bit straightforward and not interesting in and of themselves. The shower tactic helped, since it showed some ingenuity on her part (maybe she's moving away from being merely about brute force?), but I still preferred episode 14.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 04:00   Link #87
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 26
Aye, I'm more with Reckoner and 0utf0xZer0 on this. I did like the episode, but I only thought it was good compared to the previous one (which I rated as excellent) mainly due to how I wasn't all that impressed by how the problem was solved (Ohana's positive attitude and wackiness continue to make me love her even more regardless) and that the plot itself seemed even further like a side story than an integral part of the plot (It only feels like that, but I'm aware that the realization Ohana came across is pretty important, as well as Yuina's development) so at the end I didn't quite enjoy it as I did last week, but still good effort.

The last scene at the outdoor bath was probably the best scene in the episode. Seeing how far Minko and Ohana's relationship had went (with some very subtle fanservice, impressively throughout the episode even) and the comedic play between them made me laugh.

Other than that, I hope we don't really focus too much on Yuina anymore. Not due to me thinking that the side characters are hurting the show, but rather that I think she had already served her purpose. We need to focus more to the inn and the cast there first and foremost, and I look forward to nest weeks episode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Guys. Okada said this anime is about learning to love your work.
Did she say that? I suppose it's pretty clear enough from the way the show had been beating us with that message, though I'm really a bit apprehensive in supporting that view (even if I think it's correct) since this is Okada.

Anyone who thinks mango flavor Ice Cream with fried chicken topping is an actual flavor has no understanding of the human body. For that matter, I feel sorry for her stomach, since I'm sure this was her idea (as usual).
__________________
Arabesque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 05:07   Link #88
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Anyone who thinks mango flavor Ice Cream with fried chicken topping is an actual flavor has no understanding of the human body. For that matter, I feel sorry for her stomach, since I'm sure this was her idea (as usual).
Mango goes well with chicken. Mango goes well with ice cream. But for God's sake, seriously which idiot proposed throwing these three together...

Reminded me of this video (notices it's Onion network)
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 05:09   Link #89
erneiz_hyde
Indifferent
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
My current stance in this is if Ohana/Ko doesn't happen in the end, then at least the conclusion HAVE to be epic. Naturally, bonus points if it happened AND the ending is epic.

Looking at Ohana now and her mama's youth, I wonder how was grandma in her puberty days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Anyone who thinks mango flavor Ice Cream with fried chicken topping is an actual flavor has no understanding of the human body. For that matter, I feel sorry for her stomach, since I'm sure this was her idea (as usual).
Well, to do it justice(?), the Japanese also had this culture of Dark Pot where they threw ingredients to a stew pot in the dark so nobody knows what's really in it. Sort of like Every Flavor Bean in HP I guess . Culinary can be weird sometimes.
__________________
erneiz_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 09:20   Link #90
Gohan78
Awakened One
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
Sadly this episode managed to make me dislike Yuina.
While Ohana was worried for the inn, Yuina was all like "I don't care, it's their problem, let's enjoy the trip!". Considering that she had known the innkeeper for a long time and that she badmouthed/rejected Yosuke in front of his coworkers, I hoped that she would feel at least a bit guilty. But nooo, she is really selfish and inconsiderate.
Even in the end she only helped Yosuke because she felt jealous towards Ohana. Well, at least she finally understood the value of hard work. But I still dislike her and her annoying speech patterns.
__________________
Tibi, magnum Innominandum,
signa stellarum nigrarum
et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim.
(De Vermis Mysteriis)
Gohan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 14:43   Link #91
marcosius
Anime Critic
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Not Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soconfused View Post
as long as Tohru doesn't get any episodes I'll be happy.
Sooner or later will be the turn of Tohru episode, cause we know virtually nothing about him other than the triangle with Minchi and Ohana.
marcosius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 15:56   Link #92
Flower
Celestial operations....
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Dilapidated Astronomy Observatory...
I really liked Ep 15 ... it is nice to see how Ohana's growth is starting to affect other people for the better.

Admittedly I too was fairly unimpressed with Yuina throughout the last two eps - but people can change, after all....
__________________
Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-12, 21:25   Link #93
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
While Yuina is still my second favorite character after Nako, but still i agree that i was not impressed with Yuina this arc.

It was the case of wise man is no longer wise when he speak. I found the whole thing about "wow, it is my first time working, and it is quite fun" lame. And then taking back the whole built up rejection in last episode showed her to be very immature when it come to making decision (just like how most high school students in real life are).
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 03:35   Link #94
Knightrunner
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States--- California
I feel like the staff hijack this episode to make sure Yuina doesn't beat the main character. She had all the potential characteristics and theme to own every character in the show, but they decided to dumb her down.

I don't need to experience hard work to figure out it is tough.
__________________
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6139/omk1.jpg
Credit to grylsygaeger
Knightrunner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 05:28   Link #95
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightrunner View Post
I feel like the staff hijack this episode to make sure Yuina doesn't beat the main character. She had all the potential characteristics and theme to own every character in the show, but they decided to dumb her down.

I don't need to experience hard work to figure out it is tough.
This ^

I at first thought Yuina was a contrast version of Ohana. Ohana was basically 'dumped' into the Kissui inn and have to work there to feed herself at first, but slowly found the enjoyment of working as waitress. What i expected of Yuina was: while she has the right to inherit one of the largest inn in the region (and can marry into that guy's families, owning a whole bloody resort, and being part of Japanese filthy rich folks), she have a different career in mind, and want to get into colleague to follow that pathway, even when it could be more difficult and she has to build everything from scratches.

But the show just make her into a spoiled princess, who don't want to do labour works and hasn't experienced a taste of works instead. Is this an attempt to signalize a message of typical Asian parents/ adults? On how kids should follow their parents career and work their asses off instead of dreaming on doing something else?

Greatly disappointed
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 08:01   Link #96
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Is this an attempt to signalize a message of typical Asian parents/ adults? On how kids should follow their parents career and work their asses off instead of dreaming on doing something else?
As an Asian myself of course not. Its more of not being naive about the real world.

Sure dream but its a dog eat dog world out there which is why one must acquire experience points.

Put your money where your mouth is. Yosuke learned that the hard way with his temp workers leaving him to dry.

Then it was Yuina's turn. She doesn't want hard labor but she believed she and Ohana are equal.

Ohana has more experience points than she does as she wasn't treated as a princess growing up and had fend for herself, taking care also of an irresponsible mother to boot.

Yuina has it pretty damn easy.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 09:30   Link #97
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
As an Asian myself of course not. Its more of not being naive about the real world.

Sure dream but its a dog eat dog world out there which is why one must acquire experience points.

Put your money where your mouth is. Yosuke learned that the hard way with his temp workers leaving him to dry.

Then it was Yuina's turn. She doesn't want hard labor but she believed she and Ohana are equal.

Ohana has more experience points than she does as she wasn't treated as a princess growing up and had fend for herself, taking care also of an irresponsible mother to boot.

Yuina has it pretty damn easy.
If you are not a high school student then you just proved my point


Still I means the career pathway rather than the degree of working experience. One can dream to be a doctor, an engineer while working part time in MacDonald.
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 09:32   Link #98
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightrunner View Post
I feel like the staff hijack this episode to make sure Yuina doesn't beat the main character. She had all the potential characteristics and theme to own every character in the show, but they decided to dumb her down.

I don't need to experience hard work to figure out it is tough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
This ^

I at first thought Yuina was a contrast version of Ohana. Ohana was basically 'dumped' into the Kissui inn and have to work there to feed herself at first, but slowly found the enjoyment of working as waitress. What i expected of Yuina was: while she has the right to inherit one of the largest inn in the region (and can marry into that guy's families, owning a whole bloody resort, and being part of Japanese filthy rich folks), she have a different career in mind, and want to get into colleague to follow that pathway, even when it could be more difficult and she has to build everything from scratches.

But the show just make her into a spoiled princess, who don't want to do labour works and hasn't experienced a taste of works instead. Is this an attempt to signalize a message of typical Asian parents/ adults? On how kids should follow their parents career and work their asses off instead of dreaming on doing something else?

Greatly disappointed
lol, ^ these guys get it. Those issues are exactly why I was disappointed by the character 'development' they gave to Yuina.

Some replies to the stuff people posted previously:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
There's a difference between "considerate" and "selfless". And what's with "friendship" in quotation marks? We have no reason to think the friendship wasn't genuine. Actually, we don't really know how long they've been friends at all, or how they met.
The main reason I have a rather poor impression of the extent of Kou's actual feelings of "friendship" is the fact that their relationship has actually ended. This is clearly not because Ohana wanted it this way--she obviously still cares for "Kou-chan" quite a lot. No, the only reason they have actually stopped communicating with each other is because Kou has let Ohana believe that even the basic act of looking to him for encouragement and support as a friend was Ohana taking advantage of his kindness. If Kou no longer wants anything to do with the girl simply because Ohana can't give him an answer right now, and he clearly sees her struggling and feeling guilty over it, then frankly I have to wonder if there was any friendship in the first place. Has Kou only even stuck with Ohana this long because he personally believed that their relationship might become romantic eventually? It damn well looks like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Lets look at this frankly. It sounds like Yuina's and Yousuke's engagement isn't something they thought up when they were kids. It sounded like it was something that their parents arranged. And lets be honest here. A major aspect to some kind of agreement like that being made probably has to do with their status as heirs to major inns and their presumed future status of working at an inn in the future. Yuina's honest explanation of not wanting to work at an inn does bring to question the foundation of their engagement. Especially given the cultural expectations of being the wife of the owner of the inn.

It's something that culturally I think allot of westerners aren't comfortable with seeing.
lol. I guess I have to clarify some things, as for a matter of fact I'm a second-generation asian immigrant so it's not like I'm particularly engrained in western culture in the first place. I agree with you really, as far as the circumstances necessitating a review of Yuina and Yousuke's actual marriage. What set me off, however, was moreso the flippancy with which Yousuke then moved his sights over to Ohana (or even someone just like her). Things weren't working out with Yuina, true, but it showed a real lack of perspicacity to just casually dump her. If he were actually serious about finding a woman with Ohana's qualities he'd try harder to understand the actual difficulties Yuina percieved with what he wanted from her--as opposed to, y'know, more or less acting like some Ohana-like girl for him would somehow just fall into his lap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Actually, I thought it was... good? He knows what he wants, and he's upfront about it. And apparently it doesn't include a woman who'd be okami for him. She has to want it too. (The way he handled the part-timers was atrocious, I don't deny it. But the problematic is different from a wife-hunt.)
My response here is pretty much the same thing as what I just wrote above. Being upfront about what you want is good, I agree, however--having a realistic perspective, and knowing what it might actually take to get there, is (in my opinion) more important by far. Ohana is a great girl, yes (lol, well, I guess so)--but having barely interacted with her, it would be totally idiotic to assume she'd just come work for his inn. The "for him" aspect which I perhaps too quickly threw in there was referring to a person who would actually marry him and agree to work there. As far as that larger perspective goes, from what we've actually seen from the show, Yousuke actually had a better chance of teaching Yuina how to enjoy her work so that she could fulfill that latter requirement than of convincing some random girl--who, even if passionate about ryoukans like Ohana showed him, might have already found their place.

Quote:
Still, two questions bug me: how much older than Yuina is he, and how old were they when he proposed?

Meh. Aside from judging whether he's a datable guy or not, wait till he confesses before leveling that kind of criticism at him. So far, he hasn't done anything to bother Ohana with his crush.
I'm not to clear myself on those other questions, but as far as Kou, he's already ended up causing Ohana loads of pain, in my opinion. Of course, it's not really intentional--and furthermore, his absorption in his own emotions and desire for a girlfriend is actually pretty much expected given his age and level of maturity. I'm not condemning him as a person as a whole. Still, however: teenaged/high school "love" and relationships come off to me as pretty much an universally pathetic and terrible mess of things, with perhaps a few exceptions, and Kou here is prettu much a perfect example of why (from my perspective). That's why, even if Kou and Ohana's relationship is actually fairly realistic or normal for their circumstances, I haven't really held back my criticisms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So it's your position that Ko should just bottle up his feelings for Ohana, no matter how strongly he feels them, and no matter how great a need he feels to give vent to them?
That's not really what I feel at all. If what Kou's feeling were actually those of love, or even if he were simply genuine about expressing them, then I would have no problem supporting him. What we've actually got here though is pretty much a standard, banal, mindless 'attraction' common for boy's his age acting with zero sincerity. To have pretended that he ever actually cared about being "friends" with, and then to make her actually feel guilty when she can't respond to the confession he suddenly sprung on her. That's 'feelings' sure, yeah certainly, but of the most banal kind.

Quote:
As for being "actually" considerate, how is Ohana being considerate by leaving Ko completely hanging for several months?
I think Grey already responded to you on this, but he's right--a relationship is a two way road. If one side isn't ready, it is absolutely reasonable for them to ask for time or to put the answer off--it's their own life, after all. What wouldn't be considerate would be making the other party wait indefinitely, compelling them to keep on hoping for an answer when you don't actually have an intention to change anything. Ohana was not stringing Kou along, however--she genuinely worried, putting thought into her life, and was working hard to give Kou an answer with which could be satisfied--from her heart. It was actually Kou, himself, who failed to keep the lines of communication open, and made decisions which would be important to Ohana's thoughts without letting her know about them. The onus, here, frankly cannot be put on Ohana side, because Kou has been the one who kept playing hide-and-seek with what he actually thought about things.

Quote:
So it's your position that friendship can never turn into romance?
That's not what I think, actually, but since you mention this again, I'll cover it later below.

Quote:
Why exactly can't Ohana respond to his romantic confession?
I've already talked about this somewhat above, but the answer is of course because she isn't ready to. Ohana deeply values Kou as a friend, but has never previous considered at all the prospect of being with him romantically, so she needs time to work out what this would mean for them and whether she would actually be okay with it. Kou is at the very least someone Ohana does not want to lose, which is why she cannot simply throw out an answer flippantly.

Quote:
Ko is the one who should apologize?!

If anybody should apologize, it's Ohana, for leaving the poor guy completely hanging for several months.
Who's the one who let Kou be left hanging, exactly? Kou himself. Ohana obviously wasn't ready to give an answer immediately, so if he wasn't fine with that, he should've damn well said so. Allowing Ohana to keep on constantly thinking "He's waiting for me" is doing nothing but applying more fucking pressure. Tell Ohana that he's okay with waiting, or else tell her that if she's not ready, they should just go back to being friends. That's communication; that's consideration. But hanging on desperately like he just can't stand not being her boyfriend any longer is just the damn stupidest thing he could do. Making things awkward, breaking communications, the whole relationship becomes nothing but pain for both sides. By saying she can take her time with things, now that he's actually made her think about the idea (no matter how awkward that confession might have been), he could've let the romantic feelings grow naturally at their own pace.

Quote:
It's not passive-aggressive at all. It's very patient, and very forthright.
Frankly, if that can be called patience and honesty, I think you're applying some very low standards.

Quote:
... Where do you get this idea that "falling in love with someone" is a completely optional thing?

It often isn't. People often can't help falling in love with someone.

"Can't help falling in love" was even the name of an Elvis Presley song.

I'm pretty sure the line "I can't help falling in love with you" (or something to that effect) has been in countless love songs too.
On the idea of love being an optional thing. No. Basically, it is true that "Attraction is not a choice". But love? Love actually takes effort. Love requires genuine self-sacrifice. And that's not something people can really be forced into. So yes, actually, being in love is something people choose to do.

As for what isn't optional, that base attraction, that is what it is up to us as humans, as actual sentient consciences, to rise above. Relationships are a two way road--your basic attractions, if completely self-centered, are ultimately nothing but a fucking dead end. Even if it isn't some soul-borne companionship made by destiny you should at least apply some basic consideration to keep things pleasant all around. Kou has simply got no fucking clue on this--if you give to others, they will give to you. However, the only real way you can apply this principal is to actually think about how you can give in a way that people will actually be grateful for, rather than simply thinking to yourself "I gave so much for them" and then suddenly springing people with "Now it's your turn to give me something back".

Quote:
Again, where do you get this idea that crushes are things that people can help having, or not having? Generally speaking, they're not.

You can control how you act upon a crush (which Tohru has done, by the way), but you generally can't help simply having them.

As for Ko, why should he think that Ohana sees nothing at all in him? Clearly, Ohana values him quite a bit, and the two were close friends. I personally think that a good friendship is often a good basis for a romance later on. Obviously not every friendship will turn into a romance, but I see nothing at all wrong with that relationship evolution in some cases.

As for Yosuke, it's pretty telling, don't you think, how strongly Yuina reacted to the idea that Yosuke might go after Ohana instead? It's a bit of a dickish move for Yosuke to raise that idea to Yuina, but at the same time, I found it pretty inconsiderate of Yuina to give Yosuke a response that he didn't want to hear in the heat of the moment of a bunch of employees quitting on him (oh, and while she also publicly blamed him for them quitting, IIRC).

Hmmm... maybe Yosuke and Yuina deserve one another. Both actually do seem a bit passive-aggressive to me.
On Tohru, sure he's controlling himself...to the bounds of not stepping over public propriety lol. Beyond that, he's clearly getting carried away with himself, letting himself constantly get excited over Ohana with regards to things that have nothing at all to do with him. He is your average clueless dork, and a completely grating one.

As far as friendship and love--my position is that real friendship can occasionally be a fantastic base for a romantic relationship. This is obviously not the case with Kou, however, whose relationship with Ohana as far as we can see was only maintained on his end by his romantic emotions for her. You have to have an actual friendship before you can say that the relationship evolved platonicism to a romantic one. The ideal way for a pair of friends to become lovers, in any case is to have an open conversation before either one of them gets carried away with romantic ideas for the other. If the couple in question really do genuinely care for each other, then the relationship should be fine wherever it goes. The obvious problem in this case, if Kou really did feel friendship originally, was that he never gave real thought to Ohana's feelings on the matter.

Finally, on Yuina, yeah it was pretty obvious that she'd gotten comfortable with the idea of Yousuke being into her. It was just deserts for her after it turned out that she had no fucking clue about what actual effort was, but for me that doesn't really mean anything as far as actually making Yousuke any better. Rather, as I said at the start, it pretty much only downgraded Yuina to the level of the rest of the dorks in this story. You're probably right, though, as far as this potentially signifying that Yuina and Yousuke are actually perfect for each other. Given the loss of potential Yuina had to undergo for this though, I dunno if I can feel that's actually a good thing :P.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 13:49   Link #99
Archon_Wing
Throw it on the ground
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mists
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
I read a funny post on MAL that commented in annoyance that people should stop being Ohanasexuals. Hmm, I guess that kinda makes me realize what's wrong with this story.

Anyhow, Ohana's probaly gonna end with her own harem!
__________________
You just try again... through the darkness.You just go away... the future is waiting for us!
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-07-13, 14:53   Link #100
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
lol, ^ these guys get it. Those issues are exactly why I was disappointed by the character 'development' they gave to Yuina.

Some replies to the stuff people posted previously:



The main reason I have a rather poor impression of the extent of Kou's actual feelings of "friendship" is the fact that their relationship has actually ended. This is clearly not because Ohana wanted it this way--she obviously still cares for "Kou-chan" quite a lot. No, the only reason they have actually stopped communicating with each other is because Kou has let Ohana believe that even the basic act of looking to him for encouragement and support as a friend was Ohana taking advantage of his kindness. If Kou no longer wants anything to do with the girl simply because Ohana can't give him an answer right now, and he clearly sees her struggling and feeling guilty over it, then frankly I have to wonder if there was any friendship in the first place. Has Kou only even stuck with Ohana this long because he personally believed that their relationship might become romantic eventually? It damn well looks like it.




lol. I guess I have to clarify some things, as for a matter of fact I'm a second-generation asian immigrant so it's not like I'm particularly engrained in western culture in the first place. I agree with you really, as far as the circumstances necessitating a review of Yuina and Yousuke's actual marriage. What set me off, however, was moreso the flippancy with which Yousuke then moved his sights over to Ohana (or even someone just like her). Things weren't working out with Yuina, true, but it showed a real lack of perspicacity to just casually dump her. If he were actually serious about finding a woman with Ohana's qualities he'd try harder to understand the actual difficulties Yuina percieved with what he wanted from her--as opposed to, y'know, more or less acting like some Ohana-like girl for him would somehow just fall into his lap.



My response here is pretty much the same thing as what I just wrote above. Being upfront about what you want is good, I agree, however--having a realistic perspective, and knowing what it might actually take to get there, is (in my opinion) more important by far. Ohana is a great girl, yes (lol, well, I guess so)--but having barely interacted with her, it would be totally idiotic to assume she'd just come work for his inn. The "for him" aspect which I perhaps too quickly threw in there was referring to a person who would actually marry him and agree to work there. As far as that larger perspective goes, from what we've actually seen from the show, Yousuke actually had a better chance of teaching Yuina how to enjoy her work so that she could fulfill that latter requirement than of convincing some random girl--who, even if passionate about ryoukans like Ohana showed him, might have already found their place.



I'm not to clear myself on those other questions, but as far as Kou, he's already ended up causing Ohana loads of pain, in my opinion. Of course, it's not really intentional--and furthermore, his absorption in his own emotions and desire for a girlfriend is actually pretty much expected given his age and level of maturity. I'm not condemning him as a person as a whole. Still, however: teenaged/high school "love" and relationships come off to me as pretty much an universally pathetic and terrible mess of things, with perhaps a few exceptions, and Kou here is prettu much a perfect example of why (from my perspective). That's why, even if Kou and Ohana's relationship is actually fairly realistic or normal for their circumstances, I haven't really held back my criticisms.




That's not really what I feel at all. If what Kou's feeling were actually those of love, or even if he were simply genuine about expressing them, then I would have no problem supporting him. What we've actually got here though is pretty much a standard, banal, mindless 'attraction' common for boy's his age acting with zero sincerity. To have pretended that he ever actually cared about being "friends" with, and then to make her actually feel guilty when she can't respond to the confession he suddenly sprung on her. That's 'feelings' sure, yeah certainly, but of the most banal kind.



I think Grey already responded to you on this, but he's right--a relationship is a two way road. If one side isn't ready, it is absolutely reasonable for them to ask for time or to put the answer off--it's their own life, after all. What wouldn't be considerate would be making the other party wait indefinitely, compelling them to keep on hoping for an answer when you don't actually have an intention to change anything. Ohana was not stringing Kou along, however--she genuinely worried, putting thought into her life, and was working hard to give Kou an answer with which could be satisfied--from her heart. It was actually Kou, himself, who failed to keep the lines of communication open, and made decisions which would be important to Ohana's thoughts without letting her know about them. The onus, here, frankly cannot be put on Ohana side, because Kou has been the one who kept playing hide-and-seek with what he actually thought about things.



That's not what I think, actually, but since you mention this again, I'll cover it later below.



I've already talked about this somewhat above, but the answer is of course because she isn't ready to. Ohana deeply values Kou as a friend, but has never previous considered at all the prospect of being with him romantically, so she needs time to work out what this would mean for them and whether she would actually be okay with it. Kou is at the very least someone Ohana does not want to lose, which is why she cannot simply throw out an answer flippantly.



Who's the one who let Kou be left hanging, exactly? Kou himself. Ohana obviously wasn't ready to give an answer immediately, so if he wasn't fine with that, he should've damn well said so. Allowing Ohana to keep on constantly thinking "He's waiting for me" is doing nothing but applying more fucking pressure. Tell Ohana that he's okay with waiting, or else tell her that if she's not ready, they should just go back to being friends. That's communication; that's consideration. But hanging on desperately like he just can't stand not being her boyfriend any longer is just the damn stupidest thing he could do. Making things awkward, breaking communications, the whole relationship becomes nothing but pain for both sides. By saying she can take her time with things, now that he's actually made her think about the idea (no matter how awkward that confession might have been), he could've let the romantic feelings grow naturally at their own pace.



Frankly, if that can be called patience and honesty, I think you're applying some very low standards.



On the idea of love being an optional thing. No. Basically, it is true that "Attraction is not a choice". But love? Love actually takes effort. Love requires genuine self-sacrifice. And that's not something people can really be forced into. So yes, actually, being in love is something people choose to do.

As for what isn't optional, that base attraction, that is what it is up to us as humans, as actual sentient consciences, to rise above. Relationships are a two way road--your basic attractions, if completely self-centered, are ultimately nothing but a fucking dead end. Even if it isn't some soul-borne companionship made by destiny you should at least apply some basic consideration to keep things pleasant all around. Kou has simply got no fucking clue on this--if you give to others, they will give to you. However, the only real way you can apply this principal is to actually think about how you can give in a way that people will actually be grateful for, rather than simply thinking to yourself "I gave so much for them" and then suddenly springing people with "Now it's your turn to give me something back".
I get the feeling you're blaming Ko for a lot of what Ohana's feeling. What she decides. What she does or doesn't do. It's not exactly fair, is it?

Sure, he took the initiative by confessing. Sure, the timing was awkward. But it's been months, and Ohana hasn't really done anything to fix things, has she? Ultimately she has to take responsibility for her actions (or lack thereof). As for her feelings... If Ko has to take responsibility for them, who's going to take responsibility for his?

Quote:
On Tohru, sure he's controlling himself...to the bounds of not stepping over public propriety lol.
And what more would you have of him?

Quote:
Beyond that, he's clearly getting carried away with himself, letting himself constantly
... constantly?

Quote:
get excited over Ohana with regards to things that have nothing at all to do with him. He is your average clueless dork, and a completely grating one.
So? Seriously, so? Has he done anything to hurt Ohana or anyone, except fail to notice Minko's feelings?

Quote:
As far as friendship and love--my position is that real friendship can occasionally be a fantastic base for a romantic relationship. This is obviously not the case with Kou, however, whose relationship with Ohana as far as we can see was only maintained on his end by his romantic emotions for her. You have to have an actual friendship before you can say that the relationship evolved platonicism to a romantic one. The ideal way for a pair of friends to become lovers, in any case is to have an open conversation before either one of them gets carried away with romantic ideas for the other. If the couple in question really do genuinely care for each other, then the relationship should be fine wherever it goes. The obvious problem in this case, if Kou really did feel friendship originally, was that he never gave real thought to Ohana's feelings on the matter.
And when has Kou ever refused to be there for her, answer or no answer?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.