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Old 2011-07-18, 21:43   Link #23281
Kealym
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
But yes, it can be explained in various ways...which is why I actually thought about posting the Forgery Author Test here that was mentioned in the interview with Ryűkishi I translated some time ago. It's actually a nice way of comparing theories.
Wait, what is this? It sounds really interesting...

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It's called covering your bases. Even if Kinzo is dead they can squeeze money out of Krauss and having their son there makes things easier, and if Kinzo IS alive they need to have as many assets on board in preparation for his shenanigans. Ange's always been sickly but this is the first time she missed a conference.
See, now I just feel stupid because I still can't see it... how can Battler's presence in any way assist them in squeezing Krauss? The cousins are never included in making family decisions (even George, who's in his 20's and rather intelligent just gets told to "go play", pretty much), and the kids never really come up in conversation during the conference, proper, IIRC.

If you want to cover the base of "Just maybe, Father is still alive", then what's the point of excluding Ange? If you go with "Wouldn't put it past him" Kinzo, he hates all the grandkids, too. If you go by EP8, and you think he was a pretty cool gramps, then they'd have the advantage of having two kids to use in whatever crazy shenanigans might arise.
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Old 2011-07-18, 22:38   Link #23282
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I don't think the Black Witch is necessarily limited to negative feelings toward others, but to any kind of wrong-doing you just don't want to admit someone else did, and thus you attribute that to the Black Witch.
That's probably the witch/magic concept in general. The Black Witch has only textually been connected to emotional abuse in each and every one of it's references. You can believe what you like, but it's not supported in the novel.

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I'd have agreed to idea of Yasu being a scapegoat by EP6, but after having heard Clair's confession in EP7, I don't think Yasu is particularly innocent. That's why I said that, even if she didn't end up killing anyone in R.Prime, she did plan to do it had no one attempted to solve the epitaph. There's the whole deal about killing for love that was made painfully clear in EP4, EP6 and in that latest R07 interview as well.
I never said anything about her being innocent. What I am saying, though, is that she's not as guilty as she boasts to be.

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As for Yasu taking the sins of the others... well, that didn't really work, considering it seems the theorists are pretty much putting the blame on everyone. We also saw in EP8 what seemed to be Ange's friends taking about the murderers with a high implication they were talking about Rudolph and Kyrie. Not to mention the stories themselves show many facets of the Ushiromiyas, from them being shitty parents and gold-diggers to them showing some virtues as well.
A running theme I notice is that nothing Yasu tries really seems to work. She misplaces effort and throws her hands up waiting for fate to just do it for her, and that always bites her in the ass in each and every single endeavor of hers.

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See, now I just feel stupid because I still can't see it... how can Battler's presence in any way assist them in squeezing Krauss? The cousins are never included in making family decisions (even George, who's in his 20's and rather intelligent just gets told to "go play", pretty much), and the kids never really come up in conversation during the conference, proper, IIRC.
It's an insurance. Battler doesn't need to be necessary for all scenarios, only for some that can very likely come up. Let's say it turns out Kinzo is alive, like in Episode 4, and decides to divide up his money based on the potential of his grandchildren. If Rudolf and Kyrie don't have any kids to show, it's very possible that Kinzo could decide they don't get ANYTHING. Sure, he's PROBABLY dead, but Kyrie's not stupid enough to put all her eggs in one basket.

Quote:
If you want to cover the base of "Just maybe, Father is still alive", then what's the point of excluding Ange? If you go with "Wouldn't put it past him" Kinzo, he hates all the grandkids, too. If you go by EP8, and you think he was a pretty cool gramps, then they'd have the advantage of having two kids to use in whatever crazy shenanigans might arise.
Because she's sick and had to stay home, exactly as we've been told. Battler was a last resort pulled by Rudolf, and so his coming to the island was a miracle. Desu. :3
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Old 2011-07-19, 00:19   Link #23283
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Still, I do not believe they would have neglected bringing Ange to the conference even if she was sick, she'd have a hell of a better chance than Battler ever would, and it would probably be twice as amazing if she made any special achievements while being sick, something that has a higher chance of getting Kinzo to look in their general direction.


I do think your theory sounds possible, but I'm just not too sold on it because everything would have to be perfectly planned to the dot, and I do not believe any relative was even SLIGHTLY convinced that Kinzo would give his inheritance on whim to their cousins, or to anyone at all. They simply did not care at the moment, to them, getting the minimal amount out of Krauss was what really mattered, Battler had no real part in that, I am still convinced that, whether there was some external plans other than the inheritance, Rudolph simply begged Battler to come back to the family a long time before the conference, and simply went to go back with lost family.


It was clear that none of them actually figured Kinzo would come out when called because either A: He was dead and Krauss is lying or B: He's too much of a crazy guy to leave the study. It just feels that there would need to be a godly amount of fortune-telling for this scenario to work.


Also, I don't think Kyrie would have brought him as insurance, because Rudolph does not want her involved as a woman, I don't think she really interfered with the conference. It just seems out of place for Rudolph, but not completely impossible. Also, if you think they wouldn't bring a sick child to the conference, they might if they're willing to bring a ex-ex-family member as a token for insurance.
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Old 2011-07-19, 00:44   Link #23284
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Still, I do not believe they would have neglected bringing Ange to the conference even if she was sick, she'd have a hell of a better chance than Battler ever would, and it would probably be twice as amazing if she made any special achievements while being sick, something that has a higher chance of getting Kinzo to look in their general direction.
And then Ange died of of overexhaustion because Kinzo enacted a fitness challenge. LOL OOPS.

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I do think your theory sounds possible, but I'm just not too sold on it because everything would have to be perfectly planned to the dot, and I do not believe any relative was even SLIGHTLY convinced that Kinzo would give his inheritance on whim to their cousins, or to anyone at all. They simply did not care at the moment, to them, getting the minimal amount out of Krauss was what really mattered, Battler had no real part in that, I am still convinced that, whether there was some external plans other than the inheritance, Rudolph simply begged Battler to come back to the family a long time before the conference, and simply went to go back with lost family.
God dammit, I'm not saying things are planned to the dot, I'm saying that they're playing "Better Safe than Sorry." How do I have to need to say this more than once?

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Also, I don't think Kyrie would have brought him as insurance, because Rudolph does not want her involved as a woman, I don't think she really interfered with the conference. It just seems out of place for Rudolph, but not completely impossible. Also, if you think they wouldn't bring a sick child to the conference, they might if they're willing to bring a ex-ex-family member as a token for insurance.
Actually it's specified that Kyrie is pretty much Rudolf's advisor in pretty much everything, conferences included.
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Old 2011-07-19, 02:54   Link #23285
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Wait, what is this? It sounds really interesting...
It's a ten question per Episode test, where you can formulate your aswers based on what you think is the truth. It was made by KEIYA, the one who also did the interview with Ryűkishi I translated...and Ryűkishi approved of that test as well.
It's done in collaboration so that other people might join into the Forgery game.

I'm almost finished with mine, but I'm going to be in London until Friday. So I'll post it then...hopefully the discussion won't continue TOO far until then
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Old 2011-07-19, 08:43   Link #23286
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
That's probably the witch/magic concept in general. The Black Witch has only textually been connected to emotional abuse in each and every one of it's references. You can believe what you like, but it's not supported in the novel.
But that's wrong. The Black Witch got linked to Kazumi, who was going to kill Ange.

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I never said anything about her being innocent. What I am saying, though, is that she's not as guilty as she boasts to be.
But what can Yasu do? The only stories she wrote were EP1-2 and those were written before the conference. It also happens in the stories she wrote no one tried to solve the epitaph. So, she did as she had planned. She was pretty much pulling an "And then there were none".

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
A running theme I notice is that nothing Yasu tries really seems to work. She misplaces effort and throws her hands up waiting for fate to just do it for her, and that always bites her in the ass in each and every single endeavor of hers.
She only ended up that way after getting to know the truth about her parentage, but mainly after learning of her physical injury.

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It's an insurance. Battler doesn't need to be necessary for all scenarios, only for some that can very likely come up. Let's say it turns out Kinzo is alive, like in Episode 4, and decides to divide up his money based on the potential of his grandchildren. If Rudolf and Kyrie don't have any kids to show, it's very possible that Kinzo could decide they don't get ANYTHING. Sure, he's PROBABLY dead, but Kyrie's not stupid enough to put all her eggs in one basket.
Battler wasn't in Lion's world, though. And the only difference in that world, in terms of family headship, was that Lion was the next in line to become the head of the family and not Krauss. But other than that, Kinzo was still old and in his last days and the parents still needed money like crazy. Not to mention that, as we saw, the parents weren't okay with the idea of Lion becoming the new head.
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Old 2011-07-19, 12:42   Link #23287
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It's a ten question per Episode test, where you can formulate your aswers based on what you think is the truth. It was made by KEIYA, the one who also did the interview with Ryűkishi I translated...and Ryűkishi approved of that test as well.
It's done in collaboration so that other people might join into the Forgery game.
Anyone got a link to a translated version?

Quote:
But that's wrong. The Black Witch got linked to Kazumi, who was going to kill Ange.
But the Black Witch wasn't goading her to kill Ange, it was goading her to stamp on what Ange felt was precious, and destroy her emotionally. It doesn't mind that she's gonna kill Ange, sure, but it's message is "Push all your pain onto her and you'll feel better about yourself."

Quote:
But what can Yasu do? The only stories she wrote were EP1-2 and those were written before the conference. It also happens in the stories she wrote no one tried to solve the epitaph. So, she did as she had planned. She was pretty much pulling an "And then there were none".
Right, and look how that turned out.

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She only ended up that way after getting to know the truth about her parentage, but mainly after learning of her physical injury.
She always was, it just got worse. See: Losing a broom and dustpan and spending hours looking for it without success, then not telling anyone what happened.

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Battler wasn't in Lion's world, though. And the only difference in that world, in terms of family headship, was that Lion was the next in line to become the head of the family and not Krauss. But other than that, Kinzo was still old and in his last days and the parents still needed money like crazy. Not to mention that, as we saw, the parents weren't okay with the idea of Lion becoming the new head.
You know, last night it hit me: Does Battler not being there really MEAN anything? What Will explores isn't even really Lion's world, it's a mashup of both arranged the way Bernkastel wants it. If Battler's not there, all it necessarily has to mean is that Bern doesn't want Will to speak to Battler, and I can think of dozens of reasons why that would be the case.

In short, we don't need to justify Battler's absence because it's a writing contrivance.
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Old 2011-07-19, 15:13   Link #23288
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Anyone got a link to a translated version?
If there's an untranslated version somewhere, I'd be happy to translate it.
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Old 2011-07-19, 16:13   Link #23289
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
But the Black Witch wasn't goading her to kill Ange, it was goading her to stamp on what Ange felt was precious, and destroy her emotionally. It doesn't mind that she's gonna kill Ange, sure, but it's message is "Push all your pain onto her and you'll feel better about yourself."
But isn't that the same in Rokkenjima? Pretty much everyone has emotional reasons for what they're doing. I mean, none of them were ever portrayed as people who would kill simply for money - unless it was an accident as we saw in EP7. And Kyrie and Rudolph doing what they did could be very well explained by saying Kyrie just went "fuck it" after Rudolph told her the truth about Battler's parentage.

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Right, and look how that turned out.
My point is, she wrote the stories before anything happened. There were two likely outcomes:

a. The epitaph got solved, the gold was given to whoever solved it, and Yasu's future was in this person's/people's hands. In this case, the letters in the bottles would probably have been thought of just a joke, since no one would have died.

b. No one tried solving the epitaph, Yasu killed the majority of them and then blew the island up. In this case the letters in the bottles played the "And then there were none" role. So, in this case Yasu wouldn't have been playing the role of a martyr, but she'd actually have been the actual murderer.

Mind you, I'm not going to mention the fact there was a boat ready for Yasu and Battler to escape... That's another story.

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She always was, it just got worse. See: Losing a broom and dustpan and spending hours looking for it without success, then not telling anyone what happened.
Yeah, but notice that by looking for them, she was still acting normally and not entrusting herself entirely to some fate roulette.

Sure, Yasu was an unlucky child, but she did try to cope with her life. It wasn't until she got told the truth behind her birth and then about her injury that she simply decided to entrust herself to fate.

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You know, last night it hit me: Does Battler not being there really MEAN anything? What Will explores isn't even really Lion's world, it's a mashup of both arranged the way Bernkastel wants it. If Battler's not there, all it necessarily has to mean is that Bern doesn't want Will to speak to Battler, and I can think of dozens of reasons why that would be the case.

In short, we don't need to justify Battler's absence because it's a writing contrivance.
I think there's no problem with Will meeting with Battler, if the issue to solve was "who killed Beatrice?". The only clue anyone could hope he could get from Battler would be the promise, and as we saw in EP3, Battler doesn't even remember that. In fact, even if he could get that, all the better, because answering the posed question is what Bern expected Will to do.

Also, this would be Piece Battler and not BATTLER.
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Old 2011-07-19, 16:41   Link #23290
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But isn't that the same in Rokkenjima? Pretty much everyone has emotional reasons for what they're doing. I mean, none of them were ever portrayed as people who would kill simply for money - unless it was an accident as we saw in EP7. And Kyrie and Rudolph doing what they did could be very well explained by saying Kyrie just went "fuck it" after Rudolph told her the truth about Battler's parentage.
Alright, give me a culprit and explain their emotionally-founded reasons for killing EVERYONE, not just a few people.

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My point is, she wrote the stories before anything happened. There were two likely outcomes:

a. The epitaph got solved, the gold was given to whoever solved it, and Yasu's future was in this person's/people's hands. In this case, the letters in the bottles would probably have been thought of just a joke, since no one would have died.

b. No one tried solving the epitaph, Yasu killed the majority of them and then blew the island up. In this case the letters in the bottles played the "And then there were none" role. So, in this case Yasu wouldn't have been playing the role of a martyr, but she'd actually have been the actual murderer.

Mind you, I'm not going to mention the fact there was a boat ready for Yasu and Battler to escape... That's another story.
And you know what? It doesn't look like Yasu planned for the scenario of "Someone solved the Epitaph but she didn't know about it so she acted as if no one had solved it." If she did, we never saw that message bottle.

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Yeah, but notice that by looking for them, she was still acting normally and not entrusting herself entirely to some fate roulette.

Sure, Yasu was an unlucky child, but she did try to cope with her life. It wasn't until she got told the truth behind her birth and then about her injury that she simply decided to entrust herself to fate.
Alright, great. Totally irrelevant, though, because my point is that she puts in a lot of misplaced effort in her projects and actions and then throws her hands up. This is true even with this broom example. After a while, she stopped trying to find it and just started working on her explanation for why she couldn't find it, which she then kept to herself and suffered the consequences of losing it.

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I think there's no problem with Will meeting with Battler, if the issue to solve was "who killed Beatrice?". The only clue anyone could hope he could get from Battler would be the promise, and as we saw in EP3, Battler doesn't even remember that. In fact, even if he could get that, all the better, because answering the posed question is what Bern expected Will to do.

Also, this would be Piece Battler and not BATTLER.
Bernkastel doesn't take that many risks. it's one of the traits explicitly noted to separate her from Beatrice. Bern only included what was necessary for Will to solve things, and by not including Battler, she is saying that this story doesn't need a heart. On top of that, what if BATTLER somehow possessed Piece Battler and interfered, or the Spectator's Authority allowed him to speak with BATTLER (since figures under the Authority can apparently access all memories of all their selves).
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Old 2011-07-19, 17:07   Link #23291
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And then Ange died of of overexhaustion because Kinzo enacted a fitness challenge. LOL OOPS.

If Kinzo is how he is, I wouldn't put it past him.





Actually it's specified that Kyrie is pretty much Rudolf's advisor in pretty much everything, conferences included.

Adviser, yes, but she was not allowed to do anything on her own. So she would not say ''Hey Battler, want to go meet your family(be a reserve bishop for the inheritance?) and see them after so long?'' I also don't think she would say ''Hey dear, my intuition is picking up, lets bring your son for insurance in your inheritance, Ange's obviously no good there''. I don't think Rudolph would listen to Kyrie if she suggested to bring their son as a backup card, and in the first Episode, it's revealed that Kyrie did not even know that Rudolph was in a serious situation where he was gonna get sued, so he obviously leaves her out on many things.
They came there with one goal, to wring Krauss out of money, they spent all that time preparing a case against Krauss, they pretty much bet that Kinzo would not appear, dead or alive. Their only concern was Krauss. Rudolph wanted only Kyrie's advice on how to get Krauss to give them money. I'm saying there's just no room for them to just think ''lets bring a kid, just in case''. Besides, why Battler? Imagine it: ''Pfft, hell no old geezer! I'm not going to take part in some damn contest! My old man can go shove it!''. Logic would say that Kyrie would think that Ange would have a better case, with the argument I presented, there's no way Kyrie would think that Battler is in any way capable of strengthening their defenses, I could only imagine how pissed Kinzo would have been in his condition to see Battler(or he wouldn't care and just keep crying over Beato). If they didn't bring their kid, Kinzo wouldn't be giving them all a fair chance, I doubt he'd just say ''Screw it, lets go on without Battler or Ange''. In fact, why would he neglect ANY kid that could possibly have potential? Kinzo would probably want BOTH Ange and Battler to be there.

I can't completely deny your reasoning, it is possible, but I guess I'll just remain unsold on it.



Also, I'm pretty sure the ''black witch'' is a title, like Endless or Certainty, meaning ''anyone can be a black witch''. Maria's confusion with possession seems to deny this though, as she calls her mama ''the black witch'', but then again they use every person with ''endless'' as ''the endless witch''. I figured Kasumi took an image of Eva because you could feel similar hearts from them. Sort of like how Ange thought Ikuko produced a similar ''scent'' to Beatrice.
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Old 2011-07-19, 17:33   Link #23292
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They came there with one goal, to wring Krauss out of money, they spent all that time preparing a case against Krauss, they pretty much bet that Kinzo would not appear, dead or alive. Their only concern was Krauss. Rudolph wanted only Kyrie's advice on how to get Krauss to give them money. I'm saying there's just no room for them to just think ''lets bring a kid, just in case''. Besides, why Battler? Imagine it: ''Pfft, hell no old geezer! I'm not going to take part in some damn contest! My old man can go shove it!''. Logic would say that Kyrie would think that Ange would have a better case, with the argument I presented, there's no way Kyrie would think that Battler is in any way capable of strengthening their defenses, I could only imagine how pissed Kinzo would have been in his condition to see Battler(or he wouldn't care and just keep crying over Beato). If they didn't bring their kid, Kinzo wouldn't be giving them all a fair chance, I doubt he'd just say ''Screw it, lets go on without Battler or Ange''. In fact, why would he neglect ANY kid that could possibly have potential? Kinzo would probably want BOTH Ange and Battler to be there.

I can't completely deny your reasoning, it is possible, but I guess I'll just remain unsold on it.
I'm not saying it's a for sure thing, just that it's what makes the most sense to me.

I mean, yea, there's probably Rudolf wanting to patch things up with Battler and reveal to Kyrie the truth of everything, but my idea is probably more in line with what Kyrie thinks is going on.

Quote:
Also, I'm pretty sure the ''black witch'' is a title, like Endless or Certainty, meaning ''anyone can be a black witch''. Maria's confusion with possession seems to deny this though, as she calls her mama ''the black witch'', but then again they use every person with ''endless'' as ''the endless witch''. I figured Kasumi took an image of Eva because you could feel similar hearts from them. Sort of like how Ange thought Ikuko produced a similar ''scent'' to Beatrice.
I agree. The Black Witch isn't a being, it's an aspect within people, or a way that power can be used, just like Ange and Maria are white witches. However, I think what makes someone a Black Witch is that they push their pain onto other people instead of using 'magic' to improve their situation.
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Old 2011-07-19, 19:51   Link #23293
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Besides, if it was an all-girl orphanage, why didn't the Witch Hunters latch onto that and make the irregularity with Kanon an issue? That would show up even if you assume Fukuin was bribed to create records for him.
That's an obvious question, and the simple answer is we don't know and I suspect that's because Ryukishi didn't think too hard about that one.

Basically there's only two possible scenarios here:
  • Fukuin was an orphanage strictly for girls. Witch Hunters should ask why Kanon exists in the stories.
  • Fukuin was a mixed-gender orphanage. Yet we are never shown nor even referenced any male Fukuin charge other than Kanon, who is questionable in the first place.
So pick your poison: Either someone in the future should've asked this question already and inexplicably didn't, or literally every piece of evidence we have says nothing about the situation as it actually existed for no clear reason.

And no, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If Fukuin had no male servants, Krauss should have been suspicious of Kanon. But there's no evidence Kanon existed the way the stories say he did anyway, so there's no way to know if Krauss ever had any opportunity to question it (and in a story, he won't even if he should). Likewise, if a male servant was presented in R-Prime, we have nothing that shows us Krauss didn't question it then.
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Ok, I know it's been well established that the actual text a person would read in R-Prime likely doesnt match, word for word, what WE'VE read for the individual arcs, but :

1.) What does Tohya inserting scenes into Yasu's narrative serve? It's the fact that Battler's wierd heritage was HINTED in EP1 that allowed it to be used as a bullshit theory in EP5.
There's no necessity that he had to do this. It's possible ep1 and ep2 are just Yasu's work. Granted, as you said, the strange heritage issue comes up, but really we're left with the only conclusion: Rudolf told someone and he either told Yasu directly or told someone and Yasu overheard. Only Rudolf seems to know this information, so in R-Prime it would have to pass from him to someone somehow.

It's possible he told someone that very night and Yasu learned of it then, if you go by the post-event authorship notion.
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2.) I won't say "those message bottles were not written from Maria's perspective", but if Yasu really wanted the message bottles to be "solved", that's very difficult from Maria's limited perspective. Also, she dies twice. In EP3, relatively early, too, and EP3 is accepted as a legitimate-sounding forgery to those who read it. In End and Dawn (wonky as they were), she was dead from the get-go.
Odds are pretty strong Battler is always the narrator. There's plenty of reasons why Yasu would make Battler her narrator.
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3.) Again, while I can't deny it, I just don't see his parents bringing Battler back as some kind of inheritance gambit. What makes them think they can even get the inheritance? They think Kinzo is dead, and "Maybe this year, if he's actually alive, he'll have some elaborate test among the children" seems like a jump. Yasu did not go out of her way to get Battler to return. Kyrie and Rudolf think Kinzo is dead. Ange has been consistently portrayed as just a sickly ass child. I'm not seeing where the conspiracy goes. o_o
The fact that Rudolf did try to get Battler to come back should not be taken as proof that this was the sole or direct cause of him coming back. However, any other reason can only be speculated on.

I'm personally pretty fond of the "Battler did remember" thing but again, prove it.
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Old 2011-07-19, 19:58   Link #23294
cronnoponno
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Episode 7 Tea Party, quote based on memory and not 100% accurate after Shannon and George go out:

''Hm, I guess back then, Shannon was my first love''.

At the very least, he remembered he loved her.

Also, Dlanor's and Virgilia's lecture to Battler in ep 5 has a vague hint about the ''embarrassed couples''.

''Now that you mention it, my first love was like that''
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Old 2011-07-19, 20:15   Link #23295
LyricalAura
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And no, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If Fukuin had no male servants, Krauss should have been suspicious of Kanon. But there's no evidence Kanon existed the way the stories say he did anyway, so there's no way to know if Krauss ever had any opportunity to question it (and in a story, he won't even if he should). Likewise, if a male servant was presented in R-Prime, we have nothing that shows us Krauss didn't question it then.
I'd argue further that if Fukuin had no male servants, then Yasu wouldn't have written Kanon as a Fukuin graduate in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cronnoponno View Post
Episode 7 Tea Party, quote based on memory and not 100% accurate after Shannon and George go out:

''Hm, I guess back then, Shannon was my first love''.

At the very least, he remembered he loved her.

Also, Dlanor's and Virgilia's lecture to Battler in ep 5 has a vague hint about the ''embarrassed couples''.

''Now that you mention it, my first love was like that''
Maybe I'm just remembering some fan thing, but wasn't there a scene in EP1 or EP2 where Battler made an offhand comment that he'd had a crush on another boy when he was a little kid?
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Old 2011-07-19, 20:18   Link #23296
cronnoponno
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Well, I reread ep 1, and I didn't see one, I guess that motivates me to keep reading Ep 2 more, I stopped just as it showed the candidates for the first twilight(where it makes a uneasy song and shows the portrait of everyone.)
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Old 2011-07-19, 20:20   Link #23297
LyricalAura
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Maybe I was just hallucinating, or it was in an old version of the translation that got changed later, but I could swear I've seen it somewhere.
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Old 2011-07-19, 21:09   Link #23298
Player
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Defending the "Fukuin = Mixed-gender Orphanage" Theory, in EP6 Kanon DOES talk about male servants and how Natsuhi became bitter to them after rumors of her being kinder to them spread.

Although, in EP6 we also see that Jessica's reaction to Kanon being male (or looking like one, at least) was "...A boy servant?" like it wasn't commonplace. So it IS possible Fukuin is an all-girls orphanage. That, or male servants brought from the Fukuin House were very unusual.
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Old 2011-07-19, 21:29   Link #23299
Renall
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Well, male servants aren't unusual at all (Gohda exists, Genji exists). The question is whether the Fukuin House fosters male children. I mean you could take Jessica's surprise to be less that there's a male servant and more that there's a young male servant. Everyone knows that the family employs males.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2011-07-19, 21:35   Link #23300
LyricalAura
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So it IS possible Fukuin is an all-girls orphanage. That, or male servants brought from the Fukuin House were very unusual.
Only a small number of Fukuin kids actually get to become servants for the Ushiromiya household, based on training and schoolwork performance and such, so I think that probably isn't unreasonable.

Side thing from EP7 I found on the umineco wiki: it's a little odd that even though the Fukuin servants avoid using their blessed names when off the job, Yasu's possibly imaginary idol is always just "Shannon".
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