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Old 2011-07-23, 01:51   Link #15021
justinstrife
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Spoiler:


Bringing up a post from a moderator I greatly respect, and who is far more eloquent and to the point than I've ever chosen to be. And a link to the actual post from months past.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576610853-post128.html

We have a very, very different view of things, and there will never be agreement between us on these issues. It is like fire and ice. The two views cannot co-exist in the same space.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:02   Link #15022
synaesthetic
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Of course not. Like most right-voting, non-rich people, you are hoping for the chance to become a member of the top 1% that pisses on everyone else. So you wouldn't dare support anything that could ruin your chance to be the pisser, rather than the pissee.

Trickle down economics, amirite?
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:07   Link #15023
kk2extreme
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This whole debt talk is stupid, they should just raise the ceiling long ago just to cover the bills. They are blaming the president the long recession, and I do think president should take the heat since he is the head of the country. However, no one has really give a deep thought that what if the stimulus is not passed, what would happen then? I honestly think that the country went in default then, and the situation would be much worse now. There are inefficiencies in the way that stimulus are spent, that is a given and it could be spent more wisely for a better effect. In today's talk, I can feel the frustration and anger with the president. Those so call politicians who try to stop whatever the president and his party are proposing are here just for scoring "political points". I think they have no real interests in trying to make the country better. Now I am scared that I am going to be jobless because of this political infighting
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:07   Link #15024
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Of course not. Like most right-voting, non-rich people, you are hoping for the chance to become a member of the top 1% that pisses on everyone else. So you wouldn't dare support anything that could ruin your chance to be the pisser, rather than the pissee.

Trickle down economics, amirite?
Well at least we know now, who the real troll is on this page of the thread.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:09   Link #15025
Ithekro
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Quote:
Of course not. Like most right-voting, non-rich people, you are hoping for the chance to become a member of the top 1% that pisses on everyone else. So you wouldn't dare support anything that could ruin your chance to be the pisser, rather than the pissee.

Trickle down economics, amirite?
I find that to be an unfair assumption actually. About anyone.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:12   Link #15026
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Spoiler:
To be honest, I find that post a bit of a wallbanger:

Spoiler for Romans 13:1-7, NIV version:


Not sure I'd be looking to the Good Book to bolster that argument.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:15   Link #15027
synaesthetic
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Actually, now that I think about it, justin, I agree with you!

You shouldn't have to pay all those taxes. You should be able to opt out.

So when the fire burning down your house threatens to destroy everything you own, the fire department can say, "Sorry dude, you opted out." When the neighborhood gangbangers break in and steal your bigscreen, the police department can say, "Nothing I can do, you opted out."

I'd wonder exactly how you'd get to work, too, since the roads you drive on are paid for with tax dollars. You'd probably have to go by helicopter or something. You'd also pay a lot more for food, since most agriculture in the US is subsidized, so you'd be paying full, unsubsidized prices. You'd have to filter your own water, too, since most water treatment is publicly funded. And you should probably consider rigging some solar panels, since most electrical generation in this country is also partially paid for with tax dollars. Oh, and the internet you're using? That was originally a government project, and hundreds of billions of public dollars went into the internet's gradual evolution.

Well, I could keep going, but we'd be here all night! To me it looks like you save quite a lot of money and trouble by paying your taxes!
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:16   Link #15028
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post

Bringing up a post from a moderator I greatly respect, and who is far more eloquent and to the point than I've ever chosen to be. And a link to the actual post from months past.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576610853-post128.html

We have a very, very different view of things, and there will never be agreement between us on these issues. It is like fire and ice. The two views cannot co-exist in the same space.
Medicare is no real different than any other taxes. If people don't want to contribute to any thing that doesn't directly benefit them then I suggest those people gtfo. Taxes will be used to build bridges you never cross, subsidize business you'll never use, innovate and educate people who are not you! If you move away from this we stop being a society and become a country of individuals out for only themselves. Such a society will never work.

The road taxes pay for help get people to business, the jobs it creates help keep business afloat, and allows people the opportunity to pursue happiness. Without education or the opportunity for education people are much more limited in what they can achieve, not saying its the only path but for a lot of people its the best path. I'm fond of academia but some might not be.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:17   Link #15029
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... who here has (personal) backup plans in case U.S. credit rating loses AAA rating after 0bama's birthday?
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:18   Link #15030
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post

Bringing up a post from a moderator I greatly respect, and who is far more eloquent and to the point than I've ever chosen to be. And a link to the actual post from months past.


http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576610853-post128.html

We have a very, very different view of things, and there will never be agreement between us on these issues. It is like fire and ice. The two views cannot co-exist in the same space.
The sad thing is people actually believe this bullshit. First off, your taxes go to benefit everyone, including yourself.

Those people on welfare you deride? Without it, they add nothing to the system. With it, however, they can spend money. That money spent will be used to benefit businesses in your community. Even you benefit from them getting welfare, and likely by more than you pay in tax, though indirectly. You said you owned a construction or roofing company right? I could be mixing you up with someone else. Regardless, with the welfare recipients being paying customers of local businesses, said businesses will be better able to afford your services. This isn't as obvious as your taxes coming out, but it is a real effect. Without welfare, your business would probably take a hit.

Also, that guy's remark about his faith? The bible quite specifically tells you to pay your taxes. Trust the word of the lord? The lord has spoken, and he said to pay up. Mark 12:14 - 12:17, Luke 20:22-20:25, Romans 13:17
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:20   Link #15031
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
... who here has (personal) backup plans in case U.S. credit rating loses AAA rating after 0bama's birthday?
Unfortunately, I'm barely getting along here as it is. If the doodoo hits the fan, I'm basically screwed. I can't get enough business working for myself to do much more than pay for groceries, and hiring is still essentially frozen.

I doubt very seriously that we'll actually default. It would screw the millionaires worse than us. This chicken-fight posturing is mostly for the benefit of the upcoming election. They are showing off in front of the voters, and they'll compromise at the last moment and blame the other side to mollify their supporters.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:23   Link #15032
justinstrife
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I can see this section of the forum has a lot of tyrants that believe they deserve whatever I work for. Freedom, Liberty, all of that means nothing to you guys. Guess we never really got rid of Slavery in the 1800's afterall...

http://townhall.com/columnists/walte...ns_pro-slavery

No wonder our country is in the crapper and swirling down the drain.

Oh, and I'm not at all worried about credit ratings going south, or credit defaults, or Armageddon for that matter. I can survive on my own just fine without some Government to protect me, as can most of the people in my life.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:32   Link #15033
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Without education or the opportunity for education people are much more limited in what they can achieve, not saying its the only path but for a lot of people its the best path. I'm fond of academia but some might not be.

this is my beef with some students when they go to higher ed...

http://gawker.com/5822160/what-happe...-student-loans
http://gawker.com/5696300/what-20000...ebt-looks-like

... how can they do this to themselves?!

let this be a fine example of a worst case scenario when you go with your 'feelings' and pursuing liberal arts!

...
my liberal sister almost got suckered in into lib-arts... i talked her out of it and now she has a real degree and is currently working (and soon gonna make a killing...) in Price Cooper Waterhouse!!!
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:32   Link #15034
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
That's not going to happen, though I would be lying to say that I don't share your sentiment deep down.
I can't say I don't share this sentiment either but, I hope it does not come to that. It would be a statement I think that the Norwegian people wouldn't give up one of the better points of their country even in the face of this, well, this inhumanity.

But...it's something said from afar. I could barely imagine what you and others over there must be feeling right now.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:39   Link #15035
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Can I laugh at the contrast in opinions on the system within just a single State in the Union? A state I live in no less. I don't think any other state can even come close to understanding California.

Funny thing is I can and do see both sides of the arguement and both are valid. All depends on ones own situation. (And prehaps point of view)
Also I'm starting to think this is actually the plan, to make us argue with each other more than unify against any common cause. Whatever that cause might be.

But then Americans do have problems unifying on anything that isn't an external threat...internal threats are much more difficult for us to combat due to our extreme differences of opinion that we have every right to have.
Despite being an outsider, I think I am with Ithekro. Both sides have valid points, but I don't know whether to say if both sides are wrong or both sides are right.

There is a need for both parties to come to a compromise with each other directly. Without the interference of self-proclaimed middlemen known as lobbyists, politicians, and probably the Congress.

Meanwhile I'll try to keep myself from shorting the USD/SGD. Fix that debt ceiling bullshit please so I can continue trading the US market. *sarcastic*
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:45   Link #15036
Ithekro
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Well, there is a saying..."Congress is the opposite of Progress".
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:50   Link #15037
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I can see this section of the forum has a lot of tyrants that believe they deserve whatever I work for. Freedom, Liberty, all of that means nothing to you guys. Guess we never really got rid of Slavery in the 1800's afterall...

http://townhall.com/columnists/walte...ns_pro-slavery

No wonder our country is in the crapper and swirling down the drain.

Oh, and I'm not at all worried about credit ratings going south, or credit defaults, or Armageddon for that matter. I can survive on my own just fine without some Government to protect me, as can most of the people in my life.
You can do that know. The utopian community of Somalia is waiting for you. Go there and learn what happens with the evil government on your back with their rules, regulations and the need to be concerned with anyone but yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
this is my beef with some students when they go to higher ed...

http://gawker.com/5822160/what-happe...-student-loans
http://gawker.com/5696300/what-20000...ebt-looks-like

... how can they do this to themselves?!
You can ask something similar of the housing crisis. People will get themselves in debt because they sometimes don't really think in the long term. They don't plan properly and make bad choices. I'm not really excusing these people at all but financial aid to students helps a lot of people who would otherwise not be able to afford college to get a legitimate opportunity to.

That's more of a problem with our loan system and its ability to discern the people who are able to show they are responsible enough to repay their debt.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:54   Link #15038
kk2extreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
... who here has (personal) backup plans in case U.S. credit rating loses AAA rating after 0bama's birthday?
To China??? I know they have jobs there...

but moving is too expensive
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:55   Link #15039
synaesthetic
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Going $200k into debt is not possible with Federal student loans alone. Most of that debt would have come from banks, so it's not even really an issue of taxpayer funds being negligently used. You have a hard cap as to what you're allowed to borrow with federal loans, and it's not nearly that much. Based on the cost of your school's tuition, but only to a certain point.

So it's not the government's fault there, it's the banks who lent to her.
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Old 2011-07-23, 02:59   Link #15040
Alchemist007
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Vengeance is very easy to understand and feel. But this post I found on Reddit is something truly spectacular:

Spoiler:
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