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Old 2011-07-24, 00:32   Link #15101
Xion Valkyrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Right. I don't blame Google or any company for doing this, either. It's not their fault; they are corporations, and corporations are amoral. This choice makes the most business sense, and it's not illegal.

I blame the government for not plugging these loopholes. The fact that these loopholes exist means the government is not doing its job.

Edit: Were I in politics, I would lower corporate taxes and close these loopholes, but do so in such a way that the total taxes collected were higher than before. The Republicans would have a very hard time crying foul, and more tax revenue would be generated.
Except quite a number of politicians take corporate money and or benefits and in turn help push legislation that benefits them. Democrats are not immune from this either.
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Old 2011-07-24, 00:40   Link #15102
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Except quite a number of politicians take corporate money and or benefits and in turn help push legislation that benefits them. Democrats are not immune from this either.
Ah, but that's where the beauty of the idea actually lies. If they opposed such a law, they would be seen by their voting base (namely the Tea Party) as opposing a tax cut, offering tacit support for "higher taxes!"

That could cost them a great many votes.

Edit: It's already happening, but I would give my right arm to drive a wedge between the GOP and the Angry For No Reason Party--er, I mean the Tea Party. My friend Audrey really described it best. The Tea Party supporters are essentially living anger. Rage given flesh. They are not angry at anything or anyone--they are simply physically manifest rage and hatred. This is why Faux News was able to hijack them so easily, and this is why they're completely ineffective without a puppetmaster pulling the strings.
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Old 2011-07-24, 01:46   Link #15103
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Ah, but that's where the beauty of the idea actually lies. If they opposed such a law, they would be seen by their voting base (namely the Tea Party) as opposing a tax cut, offering tacit support for "higher taxes!"

That could cost them a great many votes.

Edit: It's already happening, but I would give my right arm to drive a wedge between the GOP and the Angry For No Reason Party--er, I mean the Tea Party. My friend Audrey really described it best. The Tea Party supporters are essentially living anger. Rage given flesh. They are not angry at anything or anyone--they are simply physically manifest rage and hatred. This is why Faux News was able to hijack them so easily, and this is why they're completely ineffective without a puppetmaster pulling the strings.
The problem with a lot of these mobs is that the people pulling their strings are the people they should be angry with, but instead they just get used to further someone else's agenda.
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Old 2011-07-24, 02:24   Link #15104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
The problem with a lot of these mobs is that the people pulling their strings are the people they should be angry with, but instead they just get used to further someone else's agenda.
When I see the rallies, I always wonder to myself, "Where did they put the torches and pitchforks?"
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Old 2011-07-24, 02:59   Link #15105
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
When I see the rallies, I always wonder to myself, "Where did they put the torches and pitchforks?"
Blazing Saddles comes to mind (the people of Rock Ridge) ... followed by the critique on humanity in "Life of Brian" (No, we're the People's Front of Judea NOT the Judean People's Front, the Judean Popular People's Front, the Campaign for a Free Galilee, or the Popular Front of Judea.)
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Old 2011-07-24, 04:18   Link #15106
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I think China's copying of other people's technology seriously needs to stop - why copypasta something you don't understand, and it results in the death of many?

Workers search for survivors after China high-speed train crash

Quote:
(Reuters) - Rescue workers dug through the tangled wreckage on Sunday after a high-speed train smashed into a stalled train in eastern China, killing at least 35 and injuring 210 in China's deadliest train disaster since 2008.

The crash occurred on Saturday after the first train lost power due to a lightning strike and a bullet train following behind crashed into it, state media said, raising new questions about the safety of the fast-growing rail network.

Two foreigners also died in the accident, which took place on a bridge near the city of Wenzhou in Zhejiang province, some 860 miles south of Beijing, state news agency Xinhua said on Sunday. China News Service, a semi-official news agency, said one of them was a female in her 20s.

Dozens of rescue workers and firefighters used excavators to move the wreckage of the two trains as they believed more bodies were in one of the carriages that was dangling beside the bridge. It was unclear how many were on the trains at the time of the accident.

"The task for us now is to clear the debris and also to check for survivors in those areas that we have not gone to," said 35-year-old rescue worker Wang Jun. "Also, we are trying to get the railway line to be operational again."

Rail remains the most popular method of long-distance transport in China and trains are usually extremely crowded, with long-distance trains carrying as many as 1,000 passengers.

The reliability of China's railways has been called into question recently after the flagship Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line suffered a series of power outages since it opened to great fanfare a month ago.

After Saturday's collision, China suspended 23 high-speed trains from the provincial capital of Zhejiang, Xinhua said.

Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang arrived on the scene to help with the relief work and investigation, state television reported. Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao also called for all-out efforts to rescue passengers and ordered to make rescue work a priority, a government statement said.

China's rail network has also been hit by a series of scandals. Three railway officials have been investigated for corruption this year, according to local media reports.

In February, Liu Zhijun was sacked as railways minister for "serious disciplinary violations." He had led the rail sector's investment drive over the past decade.

"FLYING INTO THE AIR"

One train was heading from Beijing to the coastal city of Fuzhou, the other was running from Hangzhou, also to Fuzhou.

Both trains were made by China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Corp Ltd (CSR).

The total power failure on Saturday rendered useless an electronic safety system designed to warn following trains of stalled trains on the tracks up ahead, and automatically halt them before a collision can occur.

The force of the collision sent "the head of the train flying into the air," said Cai Qi, a 30-year-old villager who witnessed the accident and rescued five children, four women and one man. "Some of them had their hands or legs broken. Some were crushed inside debris and we pushed and carried them out."

Survivors took refuge at a middle school on Saturday night, which served as an emergency and information center for relatives looking for their missing kin. Some cried as they went through the list of injured. Many survivors looked shaken.

"Suddenly, there was a loud bang," said 32-year-old survivor Yin Caohui. "After that, the train broke. It was all dark and we could not see anything. Then there were a few loud sounds again."

A 31-year-old survivor, who gave his last name as Yu, said the train stopped suddenly and the lights immediately went off but the passengers "didn't think it was so serious."

"Only when we got down, we saw so many train carriages falling down," Yu said.

The railway ministry said it would learn from the lesson once it finds the cause of the accident, Xinhua reported.

"The railways ministry ... will resolutely prevent similar accidents from happening again," a ministry spokesman Wang Yongping said.

China's last major train disaster was in 2008, when an express train traveling from Beijing to the eastern coastal city of Qingdao derailed and collided with another train, killing 72 and injuring 416 people.
And a less deadly attempt at copying :

China inspects electronics stores after fake Apple shops report

Quote:
(Reuters) - Chinese industrial and commercial authorities in Kunming have started to inspect all of the southwestern city's electronics shops after an American blogger wrote about fake Apple stores, the official Xinhua news agency said on Saturday.

The inspections were carried out after three self-named "Apple Stores" were exposed via the Internet, but are not authorized by Apple Inc., it said.

The inspections will look into business licenses, authorized permits on brand use, and the purchase channel of each store, said a worker with the city's industrial and commercial department.

The result of the inspections will be announced to the public soon, the worker said.

The three alleged fake Apple Stores were discovered by a traveling blogger named "BirdAbroad," who posted photos and challenged the stores' legitimate status and rights to use Apple's logo which sparked a media and online frenzy.

Apple has four genuine Apple Stores in Beijing and Shanghai and none in Kunming in Yunnan province. The company has 13 authorized resellers in Kunming.
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Old 2011-07-24, 04:44   Link #15107
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think China's copying of other people's technology seriously needs to stop - why copypasta something you don't understand, and it results in the death of many?
Is it what happened? I thought it was just your run of the mill corruption and cut corners.
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Old 2011-07-24, 05:10   Link #15108
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Is it what happened? I thought it was just your run of the mill corruption and cut corners.
It still a bit early to be really sure to know what happened.
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Old 2011-07-24, 09:55   Link #15109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think China's copying of other people's technology seriously needs to stop - why copypasta something you don't understand, and it results in the death of many?
I don't know about this particular train. But for example the Velaro CN is produced under a license from Siemens in China. That means technically they do not necessarily copy the product but build it according to original plans. However, I believe their safety standards are completely different in comparison to e.g. europe. The fastest european Velaro offspring is currently used in Spain afaik. Yet the chinese variant, despite having a wider body (more mass) is equally as fast as the spanish one.
Now I did not really understand how this is even possible (considering that the differences in maximum speed that is Velaro E: train achieved a top speed of 403.7 km/h; Velaro CN aka CRH3: CRH3C reached a top speed of 394.3 km/h). I mean in Spain the maximum service speed is 350 km/h and in China despite a wider body and more mass 350 km/h too. There is even a more tuned up version available now with a service speed of 380 km/h the CRH380B + CRH380BL which reached a top speed of 487.3 km/h.
I don't want to be pessimistic, but I doubt the overall design was allround strengthend and adapted to deal with the extra power. In Germany the design was simulated and stress tested for a maximum service speed of 330 km/h (imo a service speed of 350km/h means that the technological safety margins of the design are at its limits). I wonder how long this new variant can be operated at 380 km/h before the first serious accident occurs. Another indicator that the chinese railway is rather lax with safety are the security systems of the trainsets:

Velaro E: ETCS (Level 2), STM-LZB80, ASFA
Velaro D (future german version aka ICX): ETCS, LZB, PZB, TBL 1/2, TVM, ATB, KVB
Velaro CN: ETCS (Level 1)
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Old 2011-07-24, 10:16   Link #15110
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
It is, of course, highly possible that he has fabricated and/or exaggerated any or all of these claims.
Let's just say he's really sick in the head, and now I'm seeing Facebook pages that have been set up as dartboards; I'm also pretty sure his FB account is being carpet-bombed.
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Old 2011-07-24, 10:57   Link #15111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
The problem with a lot of these mobs is that the people pulling their strings are the people they should be angry with, but instead they just get used to further someone else's agenda.
The sad thing is the TEAparty actually started off as an off-shoot of the Ron Paul "movement" during his presidential run in 2008, and somehow got co-opted by the Koch brothers, Sly-as-a-FoxNews, and Glenn Beck during the pushback against Obamacare in 2009.

The TEAparty of 2010-2011 is not the TEAparty of 2007-2008.
Ron Paul and Glenn Beck have as much in common with each other as Joe Stalin and FDR did, which is to say, they both may be fighting against the same thing (the current money system/Federal Reserve) but for different reasons and with different agendas in mind.
Ron Paul is a Classical Liberal, while Glenn Beck, FoxNews, and the Koch Bros are Corporatists.
Those two are mutually exclusive of each other since Liberalism is concerned with the rights and welfare of individuals and Corporatism is only concerned with the advance of the power and wealth of the corporate groups.
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Old 2011-07-24, 11:17   Link #15112
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Ah, but that's where the beauty of the idea actually lies. If they opposed such a law, they would be seen by their voting base (namely the Tea Party) as opposing a tax cut, offering tacit support for "higher taxes!"

That could cost them a great many votes.
As I said, it's already happened. It didn't generate much backlash. Maybe backlash will begin next week, after the August 2nd cutoff or when some other compromise is made (yeah, as if the republicans in congress will allow that).
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Old 2011-07-24, 11:24   Link #15113
Tom Bombadil
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@Jinto

The trains that are involved in the tragical accident is not really "high speed". Quote from BBC:

Quote:
"D" trains are the first generation of bullet trains in China, with an average speed of just short of 100mph (160km/h).
They run on regular tracks, comparing the high speed trains (> 300km/h), like the Beijing-Shanghai one, which run on special tracks. Of course, you still have an valid point on those trains.

@SaintessHeart
why copypasta something YOU don't understand, and twist it to fits your own biased narrative? Are you claiming that China has no technology to run trains up to 160 km/h?

The problem as far as we see, there is either a big hole in the administrative system or there was a huge human error, and the damn government tries to cover everything up.

Although there are technological reasons involved in this incident (like why the first train lost its power, the official reason is the thunder storm, which many people are questioning), but most of the clue points to the a human error. The first train has stopped on its track for some time. There is no reason why the second train was not informed, why all signals fails to prevent such an tragedy. The captain of the second train died in the incident, chest pierced by something.

The damn government tries to cover up everything. All of the incident was chalked up to the thunderstorm, the head of the Shanghai Railway Bureau was fired before anything was clear (scrape goat). There are also rumor that the propaganda office instructed that all the news media
to focus on the "heroic aspect of the rescue", and less on the cause of the incident. There is also photos showing evidence that the government officials who are "on the spot to command the rescue operation" actually dined at the top restaurant in the nearby city. It bring out the most ugly side of the government, which is disgusting.

Central China Television "currently, many of the injured do not have enough cash, so most of the medical fees are paid by the hospital...". WTF!!!!!!

Edit: someone posted the following in Baidu, which I think it is most likely the truth. Spoiler it because it is in Chinese.
Spoiler for reason:


Basically, almost all the safety precautions are ignored. The computer system was overridden. The previous incident on the Shanghai-beijing line by another thunderstorm caused an up-roar in China, so they were under a lot of pressure to run the trains even if the computer says no.

Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 2011-07-24 at 13:37.
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Old 2011-07-24, 19:09   Link #15114
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Germany gives Libyan rebels 100 million euros (144 million American Dollars) for 'humanitarian purposes'.

Link to CNN story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa...html?hpt=hp_t2

Quote:
CNN) -- Germany announced Sunday it has agreed to lend 100 million euros ($144 million) to the rebels in Libya for "civilian and humanitarian purposes" despite staying out of NATO's bombing campaign against Libyan government forces.
Germany had previously announced a loan of $10 million (7 million euros) for humanitarian aid to the Transitional National Council, the rebel movement that is battling to unseat longtime Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi.
"Because of Colonel Gadhafi's war against his own people, the situation in Libya is very difficult," German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said in a statement announcing the loan. "There is a major lack of funds to build infrastructure, as well as a shortage of needed goods, ranging from medical supplies to food.

Germany has not participated in the NATO-led military effort in Libya and abstained from the U.N. Security Council vote that authorized military action to protect civilians from Gadhafi's forces. But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in June that her country shares the hope "that this NATO mission is successful." Merkel also said Germany was supporting the NATO mission by providing increased resources to the U.S.-led mission in Afghanistan, freeing other nations to contribute to the Libyan campaign."
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Old 2011-07-24, 19:14   Link #15115
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Would that be classified as a "seeing where the winds were going" move by the German government? Making nice with the rebels who are becoming more likely to win and thus will be able to pay back the loan...somehow (money or trade).
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Old 2011-07-24, 19:19   Link #15116
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Would that be classified as a "seeing where the winds were going" move by the German government? Making nice with the rebels who are becoming more likely to win and thus will be able to pay back the loan...somehow (money or trade).
Come to think of it, a potential Greek default would have made the Euro useless in the long run - nice way to dump something that would have lost most of its value in the future, then requesting something physical back.
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Old 2011-07-24, 19:40   Link #15117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
@SaintessHeart
why copypasta something YOU don't understand, and twist it to fits your own biased narrative? Are you claiming that China has no technology to run trains up to 160 km/h?
I didn't CLAIM that China has no technology to run trains up to 160km/h, I just DON'T believe that the technology is domestically patented and developed - they are just general copies that -look- like the real but with "substitutions" that would cause potential serious failures.

They just changed bits so they could pass them off as domestic patents - and the changes are fatal; what I meant was that the technology used to build the trains could be blind copies or cut-and-paste from various tech with little or no quality control.

Quote:
The problem as far as we see, there is either a big hole in the administrative system or there was a huge human error, and the damn government tries to cover everything up.

Although there are technological reasons involved in this incident (like why the first train lost its power, the official reason is the thunder storm, which many people are questioning), but most of the clue points to the a human error. The first train has stopped on its track for some time. There is no reason why the second train was not informed, why all signals fails to prevent such an tragedy. The captain of the second train died in the incident, chest pierced by something.

The damn government tries to cover up everything. All of the incident was chalked up to the thunderstorm, the head of the Shanghai Railway Bureau was fired before anything was clear (scrape goat). There are also rumor that the propaganda office instructed that all the news media to focus on the "heroic aspect of the rescue", and less on the cause of the incident. There is also photos showing evidence that the government officials who are "on the spot to command the rescue operation" actually dined at the top restaurant in the nearby city. It bring out the most ugly side of the government, which is disgusting.

Central China Television "currently, many of the injured do not have enough cash, so most of the medical fees are paid by the hospital...". WTF!!!!!!

Edit: someone posted the following in Baidu, which I think it is most likely the truth. Spoiler it because it is in Chinese.
Spoiler for reason:


Basically, almost all the safety precautions are ignored. The computer system was overridden. The previous incident on the Shanghai-beijing line by another thunderstorm caused an up-roar in China, so they were under a lot of pressure to run the trains even if the computer says no.
Question : Wouldn't the train system have a grounding or something to direct the current from the thunderstrike?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-07-24, 20:53   Link #15118
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Not really a timeline, but China did develop their high-speed rail with actual foreign help. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10792465
Quote:
China's leaders started by demanding that any foreign company bidding for a part of the massive proposed high-speed programme to share its technology with a Chinese partner.

The Japanese engineering giant Kawasaki accepted this condition. A pioneer of high-speed rail, with almost half a century of development to its name, Kawasaki agreed to share its knowledge with CSR.

Siemens of Germany struck a similar deal with another Chinese train-maker.
You can blame China for fast-tracking new technology and shoddy standards, but they were supposedly developing these with experts from the best engineering companies in rail.

The train that was hit was CHR1-046B, the CHR1 is a series developed in joint venture with Bombardier, a Canadian company. Flipping through news archives, there seem to be issues with Chinese firms redesigning components to avoid paying patents after (or before) joint ventures fall apart. Whether these components were the issue will be made more clear in time.

Since there was a thunderstorm, there might have been issues like a transformer linked to that stretch being hit, or something crap hitting the carriages and disrupting the overhead power lines there, but it might have just been the more mundane spotty power that seems to be an existing issue with their HSR systems.
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Old 2011-07-24, 22:53   Link #15119
ganbaru
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China sacks 3 senior officials after train crash
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76M26T20110725
Is it me or a fews years back they would had end up with a bullet in their head insted to being just sacked ?
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Old 2011-07-24, 23:12   Link #15120
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
China sacks 3 senior officials after train crash
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76M26T20110725
Is it me or a fews years back they would had end up with a bullet in their head insted to being just sacked ?
It still might. Just not so soon after this made headlines.
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