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Old 2011-07-25, 02:56   Link #15121
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post

Question : Wouldn't the train system have a grounding or something to direct the current from the thunderstrike?
They do. Most of the "reason" that came out of the official media is just government lie. Many points has been called into question about this. If the thunderstorm has caused a power line failure, then why should there be a second train moving at top speed on the same track (hence the same power line)? One may argue that the thunder might cause the failure of the engine of the first train, which is also debatable(except the argument is more technical that I don't recall).

If what I quoted in my previous post is to be believed, then the thunderstorm did cause the computer system to mark large areas of the track as "red zone" (by design or malfunction), hence it refuses to let train to move. Since the government has caught a lot of flak from the last time that Beijing-Shanghai high speed train was brought to a halt by another thunderstorm, the decision was to let the train to move no matter what. The computer system was shut down, together with the safety system, the train was pretty much invisible to all other trains on the track. The quote also mentioned that the command from the coordination station to the first train was to ignore all the red signals, and drive at 20km/h. There seems to be something wrong with the (CTCS system?) of the second train, but they order it to go ahead no matter what.

From what I gathered somewhere else, the second train was delayed. If it was on time, it should be ahead of the first train, which it crash into.

Anyway, the thunderstorm was pretty severe, according to the witness, but I am 100% certain that it is more of an human error than technical failure. The brazen breach of the safety code and the ignorance of human lives are just appalling. The government handling of the aftermath is just absurd. Do they think they are fooling anyone?
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Old 2011-07-25, 03:04   Link #15122
Jinto
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Would that be classified as a "seeing where the winds were going" move by the German government? Making nice with the rebels who are becoming more likely to win and thus will be able to pay back the loan...somehow (money or trade).
At least it would be the Merkel style to do difficult things. Waiting what happens, deciding late when everybody is already headed into a certain direction. And then claiming they were always headed in that direction.
I bet they will cry foul when the money is not used for humanitarian purposes only (not).
This is just meant to appease our constitutional court and to silence the opposition parties (who'ld otherwise cry war supporter) and still doing something to come at the good side with the rebels.
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Old 2011-07-25, 04:39   Link #15123
ganbaru
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Norway gunman wants to appear in court in uniform
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...07-25-04-36-15
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Old 2011-07-25, 04:45   Link #15124
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Norway gunman wants to appear in court in uniform
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...07-25-04-36-15
He's just asking to be assassinated by disgruntled Muslims. To appear in public after massacring so many people and condemning Muslims for colonizing Europe is just going to incite their own rage. Now I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists, I'm saying someone may do something in retaliation and he's taking too big a risk for himself. He's only gonna feed the cycle of violence more with what he did and what he wants to do.
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Old 2011-07-25, 05:11   Link #15125
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
He's just asking to be assassinated by disgruntled Muslims. To appear in public after massacring so many people and condemning Muslims for colonizing Europe is just going to incite their own rage. Now I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists, I'm saying someone may do something in retaliation and he's taking too big a risk for himself.
Seeing as how the vast majority of the people killed were not Muslims, I think it's more likely that some grief-stricken parent, brother or lover would take revenge, but I highly doubt that anything like that will happen at all. I'm sure there will be very strict measures taken to avoid just that.

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He's only gonna feed the cycle of violence more with what he did and what he wants to do.
He wants to feed the cycle of violence. I'm repeating myself, but he wants to be a forerunner to the next great European conflict; a civil war that'll last almost a century. If he can stir up more tensions in the already fickle relations between (among others) Muslims and native Europeans, he feels his job is done.
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Old 2011-07-25, 06:56   Link #15126
Mr Hat and Clogs
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The moron also made a statement that he based a good portion of his training with games like Modern Warfare, Call of Duty and (of all things) World of Warcraft.

It makes me facepalm just thinking about it, then newspapers and anti-violence lobby groups (like the ACL) are all like 'This is evidence against violent games!' which makes me start head butting a wall.

He's going for a grand-slam of ticking people off with everything he's done and said so far.


When I first heard about the train crash I thought it would have been for sure that mag-lev one. Those things are barely out of testing afaik. Though they would have more quality control since I believe the cars are manufactured in... Germany? Britain? Either way, I'm not really surprised that there was a crash. There just doesn't seem to be the same level safety or quality present in China as there are in other countries.
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Old 2011-07-25, 07:22   Link #15127
Tom Bombadil
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
When I first heard about the train crash I thought it would have been for sure that mag-lev one. Those things are barely out of testing afaik. Though they would have more quality control since I believe the cars are manufactured in... Germany? Britain? Either way, I'm not really surprised that there was a crash. There just doesn't seem to be the same level safety or quality present in China as there are in other countries.
But whatever technology you have, the train can only go as safe as the people who run it. Rumor has it that the Beijing-Shanghai high speed track was not suppose to open till October so they have 3 month to test the equipments and make adjustments. But some ass-kisser in the higher up order it to open around July 1st to be in time to celebrate the 90th birthday of CCP. There is also the reckless push for #1 in the world in speed despite safety concerns (see Jinto's remarks).
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Old 2011-07-25, 08:00   Link #15128
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
He's going for a grand-slam of ticking people off with everything he's done and said so far.
Wasn't that his point int he 1st place? To tick off ppl.


Anyway I am reading his manifesto and it seems interesting so far in the 1st 200 pages (some parts I just peeked, too much text and citations). I thought it was complete nonsense writing but he indeed put a lot of effort to write something with head, body and feet although lot of citations. He had even put the sources.
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Old 2011-07-25, 08:24   Link #15129
Mr Hat and Clogs
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A friend linked this on FB, another this - it makes me hate the media at times

This was linked in the comments, an interesting blog post.

This is, I guess, the bulk of his writings? (need to translate it, since its in Norwegian)
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Old 2011-07-25, 08:40   Link #15130
zarqu
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Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf View Post
Anyway I am reading his manifesto and it seems interesting so far in the 1st 200 pages (some parts I just peeked, too much text and citations). I thought it was complete nonsense writing but he indeed put a lot of effort to write something with head, body and feet although lot of citations. He had even put the sources.
He says himself in the manifesto that half of it is from other sources (blogs etc.) and half is his own writing (at least the "interview" and diary at the end).

Norwegian media reported some time ago that parts of the manifesto were taken straight from Unabomber's manifesto. Single words were replaced with concepts fitting his own ideology. I'm not sure of the credibility of this source, though.

Anyways, the interview and his diary in the end were somewhat interesting. The diary at least doesn't give an impression of a foaming lunatic. He is calm, calculating and rational. Of course, acting rational and being a psychopath don't exclude eachother.

Last edited by zarqu; 2011-07-25 at 08:59.
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Old 2011-07-25, 08:45   Link #15131
Echoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf View Post
Anyway I am reading his manifesto and it seems interesting so far in the 1st 200 pages (some parts I just peeked, too much text and citations). I thought it was complete nonsense writing but he indeed put a lot of effort to write something with head, body and feet although lot of citations. He had even put the sources.
He raises a lot of valid concerns, and it's generally well written. (Though he can tend to exaggerate when it suits his narrative.) It's not that the problems he points out don't exist (Islamic fundamentalist in Europe, political correctness gone mad and so forth), it's just that his solution is possibly the dumbest and most inane I've ever seen put forth. A massacre of innocent civilians helps no one, and I find it hard to fathom how he could have honestly believed this to be a viable solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
This is, I guess, the bulk of his writings? (need to translate it, since its in Norwegian)
These are his collected posts on a political forum he was a member of. His posts there were referenced a lot while the case was still in development, and due to the amount of attention they have received in the wake of the massacre, they have assembled every posts of his for easy access.
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Old 2011-07-25, 10:05   Link #15132
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
The moron also made a statement that he based a good portion of his training with games like Modern Warfare, Call of Duty and (of all things) World of Warcraft.
As if it takes any training to pull a trigger. Mario and Megaman would give you just as good, if not better, hand-eye coordination training. Though it's not like you need to really aim if you don't have any specific target. Watching a movie or youtube clip would show you how to operate the gun itself (cleaning, reloading, etc). Of course, the media will ignore these obvious facts.
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Old 2011-07-25, 11:50   Link #15133
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This (requoted from Echoes):
Quote:
He raises a lot of valid concerns, and it's generally well written. (Though he can tend to exaggerate when it suits his narrative.) It's not that the problems he points out don't exist (Islamic fundamentalist in Europe, political correctness gone mad and so forth), it's just that his solution is possibly the dumbest and most inane I've ever seen put forth. A massacre of innocent civilians helps no one, and I find it hard to fathom how he could have honestly believed this to be a viable solution.
He's done an amazing amount of damage to HIS OWN CAUSE or the cause of people concerned about the trends of un-assimilated immigration on Europe. Now he's just confirmed people's suspicions that anyone who points out these real issues must be "crazy and dangerous".
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Old 2011-07-25, 12:44   Link #15134
Echoes
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He's done an amazing amount of damage to HIS OWN CAUSE or the cause of people concerned about the trends of un-assimilated immigration on Europe. Now he's just confirmed people's suspicions that anyone who points out these real issues must be "crazy and dangerous".
You are absolutely correct, I've thought a great deal about this. Like you said, a lot of people will now view anyone with right-wing views as suspicious, and anyone who utters similar opinions as potentially dangerous. In addition, some people who are "on the fence" politically will probably be pushed farther to the left.

Whether you're left, right, or somewhere in between, I'm sure we can all agree that ideally people should hold their political views not out of fear, but as a result of rational consideration of what they truly think would be best and most just for society. After all, it's this very fear that most likely drove him to commit this atrocity.
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Old 2011-07-25, 12:58   Link #15135
RandySyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
This (requoted from Echoes):
He's done an amazing amount of damage to HIS OWN CAUSE or the cause of people concerned about the trends of un-assimilated immigration on Europe. Now he's just confirmed people's suspicions that anyone who points out these real issues must be "crazy and dangerous".
Thats often done by terrorists, just look at the Islamic extremists after they bombed our embassy and 9/11, it caused a war against them by the U.S. However, it also inspired more extremists to join terror organizations, so this Norwegian could cause more right wing extremism as well.
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Old 2011-07-25, 17:18   Link #15136
Bri
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
This (requoted from Echoes):
He's done an amazing amount of damage to HIS OWN CAUSE or the cause of people concerned about the trends of un-assimilated immigration on Europe. Now he's just confirmed people's suspicions that anyone who points out these real issues must be "crazy and dangerous".
I truly hope your right but I'm not so sure. This event is going to polarize the debate between left and right in Europe even further. Left wing parties accross Europe have been on the losing side in recent elections are now blaming (far) right wing politicians for creating such a terrorist, while the right is taking offence of being associated with Breivik and in turn blame the left for creating the immigrant issues in the first place. If news message boards are any indication this polarization effect is already taking place.

Targeting kids who supported labor, instead of muslims has created a sense of extreme shock and disgust but hasn't created more public sympathy for the latter. This smells of cold insane calculation rather then the rabid hate of neo-nazi groups. I hope the media aren't going to be manipulated to give his guy a world stage to spread his hate message.
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Old 2011-07-25, 17:25   Link #15137
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Sounds like a "Welcome to US politics" situation. Of course from reading from this board, Europeans don't believe the Americans have a left, only a slightly right of center, a right, and a far right.
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Old 2011-07-25, 17:49   Link #15138
zarqu
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I hope the media aren't going to be manipulated to give his guy a world stage to spread his hate message.
He will be completely isolated for 4 weeks, and then held in pretrial detention for another four weeks.

According to his lawyer, ABB told him repeatedly that he expected to be shot outside the court room. Also, he expected to be tortured while in detention, and believed that torture is very common in Norwegian prisons. His lawyer says that "he has a different understanding of reality than other people." Well, what a surprise.

I hope they get mental health experts working on this case. It seems his delusions run deep.

Here's the google translated article: http://translate.google.com/translat...%2F17455469%2F
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Old 2011-07-25, 20:01   Link #15139
Echoes
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Originally Posted by zarqu View Post
His lawyer says that "he has a different understanding of reality than other people."
There's actually a pretty interesting story behind his lawyer. Straight from the get-go, he apparently had trouble making even the vaguest of positive statements about his client. I believe his first statement to the press after having a conversation with Breivik was "I have trouble giving you a coherent summary of any of the things he has told me."

The interesting part is, however, that this is the same lawyer who defended the accused in an infamous racially motivated murder 10 years ago. The accused was convicted and is currently serving a long sentence. (17 years iirc.) I actually passed the monument set up in honor of the victim the same day the choice of lawyer was announced. Breivik requested that this man defend him personally, further adding to the lawyer's already dubious reputation. Defending a racist murderer ten years ago might not seem like that big of a deal for a lawyer, but keep in mind that racially motivated murders (and murders in general) are exceedingly rare in Norway, and they tend to stay in the social consciousness for quite a while when they do happen.
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Old 2011-07-25, 22:40   Link #15140
ganbaru
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Children abandoned on east Africa's "roads of death"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76O3P020110725
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