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Old 2004-09-20, 14:07   Link #61
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h3lldiver
is the world destroyed by chise or because of the war? there was a big tsunami right? did chise created the tsunami? or something else has happend
Your questions are quite hard to answer as they aren't really adressed in the anime. These things remain very vague for a reason : this anime is not about the war but the anime is about the relationship (and it's problems) between Chise and Shuuji.

In the entire anime (or manga for that matter) very few references are made towards the war. To answer you questions : take the following stuff into account

Spoiler:


I hope this answers some of the questions, but remember Saikano is not about the war but about their re'lationship, the war is simply the background against which this beautifully and tragic story takes place, in fact the war isn't all that important.


PS I assumed a few things in this post so feel free to post opinions.
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Old 2004-09-21, 02:45   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
Your questions are quite hard to answer as they aren't really adressed in the anime. These things remain very vague for a reason : this anime is not about the war but the anime is about the relationship (and it's problems) between Chise and Shuuji.

In the entire anime (or manga for that matter) very few references are made towards the war. To answer you questions : take the following stuff into account

Spoiler:


I hope this answers some of the questions, but remember Saikano is not about the war but about their re'lationship, the war is simply the background against which this beautifully and tragic story takes place, in fact the war isn't all that important.


PS I assumed a few things in this post so feel free to post opinions.
Yeah i had the same idea with you before, just wanna make sure of it. this series is so depressing, the manga side story makes it worse, well it was a good one.
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Old 2004-10-09, 16:21   Link #63
7thMethuselah
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Woohoo, seems we are gonna get more Saikano

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeOnDVD
Saikano to Rise Again in 2005 (01:40 PM EDT): While 2003 was the big year for Saikano in Japan and 2004 has been far too quiet about it's US release, 2005 looks to be another big year for the property in Japan. According to Shin Takahashi's official site as linked and informed about from Little Harlock's Newslog, a live action film starring Aki Maeda is scheduled for Autumn 2005. In addition, the existing TV series will finally receive a rental release, something that has not occured for it yet by all appearances, that will allow for a wider dissemenation of the show. In addition, two new OVA releases will be released in 2005 for the property.
I wonder what exactly they will show in those OVA since they've covered pretty much the entire manga in the anime...
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Old 2004-10-09, 17:47   Link #64
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
I wonder what exactly they will show in those OVA since they've covered pretty much the entire manga in the anime...
Most likely a summary of what happened with fillers for parts of the TV series that still need to be explored.

But what really interest me is the movie and the CG they're going to use. A male cast for Shuuji comes to a second. Takeshi for Shuuji anyone ?
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Old 2004-10-18, 21:07   Link #65
Wil86
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Ok, I juuuuust finished watching the anime, can anyone tell me ....

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-10-18, 21:34   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onegai
Spoiler:
Ok then...

Spoiler:


EDIT** Ok, nevermind I figured it out...

Last edited by Wil86; 2004-10-19 at 22:30.
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Old 2004-11-17, 04:11   Link #67
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I also found Saikano overated, and filled with alot of loops and wholes left to be explained. Should have been 24 episodes, gotten more into the other charactars(you know supporting roles are pretty important) and mabey added more depth than the usual everything's going bad but we love each other relationship Shuuji and Chise had.

Spoiler:


That's just me. but I had to post. Thank you?
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Old 2004-11-17, 04:44   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
Yes... trying to ease his pain. Pretty vague scene though...
then why does she ask "why didnt you once say my nam."

almost as if she was jelous he picked Fuyumi instead?

Also why does he make love to her in the first place, he was married. She also let him.

*blarg* confusing.
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Old 2004-11-17, 12:34   Link #69
s'my
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarutoHead
then why does she ask "why didnt you once say my nam."

almost as if she was jelous he picked Fuyumi instead?

Also why does he make love to her in the first place, he was married. She also let him.

*blarg* confusing.
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-11-17, 19:36   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s'my
Spoiler:

yeah but, if she was just easing his pain, she still obvouisly felt betrayed that he was thinking of fuyumi not here.

there's alot of things that weren't clear to me. All in all it wasn't bad but i just wish instances like these were explained.

I thought Kimi Ga Nozumu Eien(sp??) did a better job at draggin you along in the tradgy.
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Old 2004-11-18, 04:23   Link #71
s'my
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarutoHead
yeah but, if she was just easing his pain, she still obvouisly felt betrayed that he was thinking of fuyumi not here.
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-11-19, 01:06   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s'my
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I think that's just some of the things that made me go huh?? explain in Saikano.
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Old 2004-11-19, 09:03   Link #73
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Old 2004-11-19, 17:47   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
Spoiler:
Yeah, they all need a backbone. I don't see how they keep screwin up and yet no one seems to care.

oh well.
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Old 2004-12-10, 12:25   Link #75
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Just finished watching Saikano yesterday, and I thought it was too emotional. When I saw the description of the anime, I was hoping Chise would be more like Kosmos from Xenosaga. Plot was allright overall, but not enough explanation in terms of cause of the war, why are they after her, the chnages in personality. It would have been better seeing her in battle as a weapon, and would have been better if everyone has died in the end, Shuji should have killed her like promised.
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Old 2004-12-10, 13:13   Link #76
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husyk
Just finished watching Saikano yesterday, and I thought it was too emotional. When I saw the description of the anime, I was hoping Chise would be more like Kosmos from Xenosaga. Plot was allright overall, but not enough explanation in terms of cause of the war,

Well the war is not important, the story is about their relationship, so the reasons of the war and who are involved doesn't add anything, in fact it'll only distract from the actual story.

Quote:
why are they after her,
And the japanese are after Chise because she is their ultimate weapon, she is their last hope, they see her as the only way to survive.

Quote:
the chnages in personality.
What in fact happens to Chise is a bit more clear from the manga.
Spoiler:


Quote:
It would have been better seeing her in battle as a weapon, and would have been better if everyone has died in the end, Shuji should have killed her like promised.
Again, the war is NOT what the anime is about but it's about the changes she goes through and her relationship, and the consequences of the one on the other.
Spoiler:


PS Yes you may have noticed that I absolutely love this show
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Old 2004-12-11, 20:16   Link #77
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HUGE SPOILER BASED COMMENT. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS

I watched all of Saikano today. You know, I watched this on the premise thinking that it was a happy show. Sure, I thought there would be casualties here and there, but the ending would be ultimately . However, like 7th said, welcome to living hell. It got pretty depressing, and I was aching all over but after some thought I've found resolution for myself.

First, the anime was of rather mediocre animation quality, etc, and if people are looking to find a science fiction story, look somewhere else. Although it's about Chise, the ultimate weapon, the emphasis of Saikano is NOT on the weapon/technology part of it. It's merely *the* major plot device upon which Chise and Shuuji's relationship is built upon, and that relationship is the true core of the anime. Side stories and all are pretty dramatic and significant, but nothing matters more than their relationship; so don't go around poking for plot holes because very little is full and complete. For example, we don't even know why Chise was chosen for such a task, or how it could be that some part broke and she can't go back to being a normal human being. Nothing is given away about the enemy except that they speak American English.

If you watch this, you're investing your time in the love story and see how a relationship is torn by war, separation and change.

In all honesty, I loved the emotional intensity of the show (I kind of feel like Genshiken's Saki.. loving the torture and pain)... but the whole anime itself is pretty ridiculous. Like some previous poster mentioned, it was quite pretentious, and things just felt unnaturally skewered to produce more pain. Character interaction and behaviour *might* be quite realistic, but trust me, the situation and plot progress isn't. It just feels so falsely doomed that I felt so cheated. In the middle, I also greatly dislike all the "mini-affairs" going on; not that I feel that thing like these don't happen, but that they're so deliberate and contrived. I don't know, it might also be my intuitive reaction to it; I am HIGHLY sensitive to stuff like someone cheating on another. But apart from that, I also just felt.. emotionally manipulated. I don't know, I just didn't feel too much from it, and again felt quite cheated from feeling sad and hurt from all that activity going on.

As a whole, is this a good anime? From the first few episodes, I thought it was going great... and I even considered collecting it. But after finishing it, this is just going to go into the "Grave of the Fireflies" corner. In other words, into the "stuff-I-keep-but-will-never-watch-again-unless..." corner. It doesn't have any fabulous lessons or masterful aspect such that it deserves repeated viewings, but there were some really intense emotional segments that makes it memorable. I'm probably not going to lay awake tonight and feel troubled about it; and that's not a good sign despite all that drama (and melodrama). I was frustrated over KGNE, had an anxiety attack because of EVA, and have been kept up and thinking by many great shows, but this isn't going to. I liked it, but... beh. It's a complex feeling.

And lastly, the ending was just... strange. Only Shuuji left? How long will he last? Without food and water, probably a few days. But of course again, that ISN'T the point of the ending.. what the ending sought out to illustrate was the fact that physical and emotional boundaries could be transcended, that although love wasn't enough to save Chise from her cyborg impulses, it's strong enough to keep them together even if one has no physical form. That power of love is further shown when she (Glowing Chisei Soul Ball ) is "absorbed" into Shuuji, and "there's so much of her in him". He loves her so much that he remembers enough of her to have her construct a perfect physical mirage of her body.

Now, let me describe how PERVERSE I thought this ending initially was, because you see Shuuji actually doing the physical actions (in the dark background) as if he was talking to himself. It's like, pretty eerie that he's living like that with a soul ball.. You might interpret it as romantic, and I do too, but it's also quite freaky. This reminds me of Chobits (SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), where the main character accepts that Chii is after all, just a complex program able to simulate the *appearance* of emotions. He says, "Chii is alive, and she lives in me. It's in my heart that she truly exists." (translated from Chinese Manga) THAT, my friends, is quite scary as well; it's like a person being so obsessed with a lifeless blowup doll that he loves it, and the doll "lives in him", except in this case Chii is a complex program that's able to give a lifelike impression of being a real person... Oh yeah, what makes it worse is that unlike the blowup doll, he can't make love to Chii. So that was why I thought Saikano's ending was pretty perverse; with Shuuji and Chise living in a recreated mirage, and Shuuji being actually alone in physical reality. I also wonder whether Chise can change and grow in Shuuji's "world", or whether in his world they are infinitely trapped and doomed to replay only the scenes they have spent together. Don't even get me started on the philosophical impossibilities of this, but I think that may be what the creators of the show intended.

On the other hand, after some thought, I thought the ending was.. well.. pretty happy. If you stopped watching after ep 10, then it would be strange, because it was TOO perfect. All their troubles just go away and are solved in an INSTANT, without any resolution.. (KGNE SPOILER NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) A similar comparison can be made to the KGNE game, where if you choose Haruka, everything just magically gels together and is like a fairy tale. In other words, it's an ending for escapists. So I preferred it that it went on...

When Chise first reappeared in ep13, I thought it was a clone of her or something. When her arm broke off I was like "oh for sure she's just a doll" (which would have made it even MORE scary if this doll and Shuuji got together), but I breathed a sign of relief after all that "revival from emotional suppression" plot thingy.

Well.. in the end, despite all the shit both of them went through, they're still truly together, and isn't that what matters? I disliked most of the development in between (with all those mini-affairs as I previously mentioned), but I think I have found some measure of peace in the ending. The destruction of the world could not have been stopped, but Chise did all she could to save Shuuji. And they loved each other truly to the very end, he loved her when she was a machine and of an abnormal physical state (that tower which he hugged onto and cried), and he still loves her when she is WITHOUT a physical state. Chise's essence still exists, and is truly Chise. I was initially afraid that the "soul ball" was just a leftover memory of Chise that.. was basically just memory and couldn't grow or have new experiences. But apparently it is her true soul, so that's okay.

So now the couple are truly together; and although they live in a physical mirage, they can see each other, they can touch each other (I have no idea about sensation), and they can be with each other... forever. All the other stuff about bearing the sins of humanity and all that.. those are really unimportant (and they feel like just a poorly served sidethought). What's real is that they're together.

Anyway, I wrote all these to help understand my thoughts. Just a last side thought after briefing through ep13.. the planet doesn't even exist, so Shuuji's physical form must be residing in some.. unreal physical dimension where he doesn't need sustenance like food and water. My guess is that he'll still age and die, but I wonder how things will play out in his soul. I'm also not looking forward to the OVAs much; because there couldn't be any continuation to the story. Filling in the middle would also be just painful for me.

//edit// Ooh. I just realised that in ep13, those spikes hanging from the skies ARE Chise, and that the girl-looking-Chise was something she created out of herself. Hmm. Pretty interesting.

So those are my thoughts for Saikano. It's a happy, wretched ending.

Last edited by arias; 2004-12-11 at 20:44.
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Old 2004-12-11, 22:06   Link #78
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
First, the anime was of rather mediocre animation quality
Actually this rather sketchy anime style is intentional, it has an unfinished feel to it which I liked alot. Same goes for the manga, often there are only a few lines present indicating the contours, it creates a soft atmosphere.


Quote:
It's merely *the* major plot device upon which Chise and Shuuji's relationship is built upon, and that relationship is the true core of the anime. Side stories and all are pretty dramatic and significant, but nothing matters more than their relationship; so don't go around poking for plot holes because very little is full and complete. For example, we don't even know why Chise was chosen for such a task, or how it could be that some part broke and she can't go back to being a normal human being. Nothing is given away about the enemy except that they speak American English.
Indeed, alot of people keep looking for answers about the war and why Chise is what she is, thereby they miss half the plot which the anime is about.



Quote:
In the middle, I also greatly dislike all the "mini-affairs" going on; not that I feel that thing like these don't happen, but that they're so deliberate and contrived. I don't know, it might also be my intuitive reaction to it; I am HIGHLY sensitive to stuff like someone cheating on another. But apart from that, I also just felt.. emotionally manipulated. I don't know, I just didn't feel too much from it, and again felt quite cheated from feeling sad and hurt from all that activity going on.
Actually some of the side stories actually depict the same relationship Chise and Shuuji have, but the circomstances are different. In Saikano no 2 relationships are the saem, and what is shown is how the dramatic events have a different effect on the different relationships. One theme is however a recurring event in all relationships : people are lonely, very lonely this due to their lovers being dead, away at the front, being unreachable, etc. Each relationship also tries to deal in a different way with the same loneliness, Shuuji's sempai for example seeks the confort of other men, Take's girl just starts roaming the streets looking for cheap kicks, yet another joines the army to escape an impossible love, and Shuuji's secret admirer tries to deny her own feelings. While these distract a bit from the main plot, I never disliked them


Quote:
I was frustrated over KGNE, had an anxiety attack because of EVA, and have been kept up and thinking by many great shows, but this isn't going to. I liked it, but... beh. It's a complex feeling.
I was *shocked* for a few days, but then again I absolutely love sad stories


Quote:
On the other hand, after some thought, I thought the ending was.. well.. pretty happy. If you stopped watching after ep 10, then it would be strange, because it was TOO perfect. All their troubles just go away and are solved in an INSTANT, without any resolution..
Their troubles don't go away but they run away from them. For some people this could be an acceptable ending, but eventually the problems catch up and they are back at square one, with even fewer options ...

Quote:
When Chise first reappeared in ep13, I thought it was a clone of her or something. When her arm broke off I was like "oh for sure she's just a doll" (which would have made it even MORE scary if this doll and Shuuji got together), but I breathed a sign of relief after all that "revival from emotional suppression" plot thingy.
At that time she is completely cyborg and what we see as Chise is only a part of her I thought.

Quote:
The destruction of the world could not have been stopped, but Chise did all she could to save Shuuji. And they loved each other truly to the very end, he loved her when she was a machine and of an abnormal physical state (that tower which he hugged onto and cried), and he still loves her when she is WITHOUT a physical state. Chise's essence still exists, and is truly Chise. I was initially afraid that the "soul ball" was just a leftover memory of Chise that.. was basically just memory and couldn't grow or have new experiences. But apparently it is her true soul, so that's okay.
I don't think Chise saves Shuuji, she only softens his death, at that time it' been mentioned that everyone will die and the world will be destroyed several times allready. Personally I'm cinvinced that Shuuji dies, but the anime and manga are pretty unclear about that.

Is what we see after the destruction a still living Shuuji? Is it some form of afterlife, or are they just a long version of Shuuji's final thoughts, I'm not sure, but I'm convinced he dies. And they are indeed together in his thoughts and feelings. It's a bizarre way but they are together.


Quote:
//edit// Ooh. I just realised that in ep13, those spikes hanging from the skies ARE Chise, and that the girl-looking-Chise was something she created out of herself. Hmm. Pretty interesting.
Yeah it took me a while before I figured that one out too
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Old 2004-12-11, 23:15   Link #79
arias
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You're right in your suggesting that Shuuji might be dead, but let's allude to two pieces of clues..

1) The fact that she says in the anime, at least in my version, that "you're the only one left."

2) That they showed one of her spikes saving Shuuji from the tsunami. Now, you might refute this because it doesn't prove anything but this scene IS shown for a reason, and it does support the idea that Shuuji is "saved".


Still, whatever form of existence Shuuji is in now, it definitely is not "life" as we know it on earth now, hence why I claimed it was an "unreal physical reality".. bizaare. Chise also says "everyone will die" but she's no prophet, right? There's no underlying theme of prophecy in the anime, and that was just a display of her surrender to the inevitable fate. But she still protected Shuuji; and that might've changed things. Still, no disagreement with you that the "life" Shuuji is having now.. is not really "life".

You know, it would be really sad if that was Shuuji's afterlife, and that soul ball Chise he was holding was just the incarnation of his memories of her.. and that he's imagining all of that by himself. >_<; But probably no, the story is such that they stay together.. in a very strange circumstance.

By the way, I thought the animation *quality* was mediocre, as in fluidity of animation (except for some cute/funny animation from Chise), and not animation *style*, which I understood why it was used because I've read some of the manga. Gyahh..
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Old 2004-12-15, 20:12   Link #80
7thMethuselah
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It's now official there is going to be a 2 episode OVA to Saishuu Heiki Kanojo
for more information, check this official site (in japanese) http://www.saikano.net/ova/

The title of the OVA : Saishuuheiki Kanojo ~ Another Love Song
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