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Old 2011-07-29, 22:08   Link #3341
Nanya01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Do Inherent Skills use magic the same way as normal spellcasting? And aside from Ginga and subaru can the other cyborgs use magic?
It's a special magic system and unaffected by AMF.

So, by that, they should be able to use magic.
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Old 2011-07-29, 22:15   Link #3342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
It's a special magic system and unaffected by AMF.

So, by that, they should be able to use magic.
Can normal mages "learn" it or must they first be implanted by cybernetics? And aside from Ginga and Subaru can the cyborgs use other magic systems aside from IS?
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Old 2011-07-29, 23:39   Link #3343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
It's a special magic system and unaffected by AMF.

So, by that, they should be able to use magic.
Sauce?

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Old 2011-07-30, 01:45   Link #3344
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Do Inherent Skills use magic the same way as normal spellcasting? And aside from Ginga and subaru can the other cyborgs use magic?
Inherent Skills are a special "magic system", as evident in the cyborgs' "tech" magic circles when they use them. Also, they are not normal spells and more of an inborn ability like Mana Conversion Affinity. For instance, it is said somewhere Sein's phasing ability was a random non-reproducible mutation during her creation, which Scaglietti decided to let stay.

As far as I can gather though I don't have a canon source on that, IS are powered by a different energy source than spells. Magic runs on mana generated by the Linker Core. IS run on whatever power source keeps the cyborg's internal electronics running. That is why they are unaffected by AMF, which is an explicitly anti-mana effect.

Except for Subaru and Ginga, Nove seems to have used some vanilla magic in ViVid (her fight against Heidi). Generally, you need a Linker Core to use magic and the question is whether Combat Cyborgs have one by default like Artificial Mages or not. There is too little data on that, however, and the three Nakajimas are hardly indicative because all three are effectively clones of Quint, who was a powerful Ground Mage herself.

Scaglietti didn't teach the Numbers any vanilla magic, so it's hard to tell their capacity for it. Throughout StrikerS they have been pretty much two-trick ponies, relying mainly on their Inherent Skills and Equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Can normal mages "learn" it or must they first be implanted by cybernetics? And aside from Ginga and Subaru can the cyborgs use other magic systems aside from IS?
AFAIK and, again, I don't have a source on that, vanilla mages cannot "learn" an IS. But as Schach demonstrated when she apprehended Sein, a mage can use spells to emulate effects of an IS, like phasing through solid walls.
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Old 2011-07-30, 01:51   Link #3345
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Teana specifically said in Strikers that IS use a different kind of energy, they are not magic.
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Old 2011-07-30, 08:00   Link #3346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Teana specifically said in Strikers that IS use a different kind of energy, they are not magic.
It was specifically stated in StrikerS that what the Numbers used was a special magic system.

The problem with the Number is, like Koveras Alvane said, we don't have enough information on them when it comes to if they can use normal magic or not.

I think they can, they just weren't trained.

Even if it's not a good indication, I think the fact that Subaru, Nove and Ginga can all use magic means that the rest of them could as well.

Besides, we've seen this from the Numbers...

Flight - Tre, Sette, Otto, Deed, Quattro
Telepathy - Nove and Wendi were able to basically "hack" Teana's telepathic conversation with Subaru, Erio and Caro.
Shields - Cinque and Nove both used barriers against Subaru.
Illusions - Quattro
Binds - Otto (both StrikerS against Caro and Fried and in ViVid against Shante)

And those are just the abilities they have that are similar to magic, that's not even their individual abilities.

It's interesting to note that Wendi was able to use her ability to emulate effects from Dieci and Cinque in the manga. "I can fire a canister like Dieci can and with a snap of my fingers, I can make it explode like Cinque-nee can."
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Old 2011-07-30, 09:09   Link #3347
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People keep putting speculation about this in here even though Nagumo translated the booklet text a while ago. post

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Combat Cyborg (CD 2, track 16)
A weapon that seamlessly melds/unites the human body and cybernetics together. It is an old concept/idea but Scaglietti proclaimed that the perfect solution/answer [to accommodate the cybernetics, we must begin altering the human body the moment it is born] (alt trans: to prevent the rejection of the cybernetics, we must begin construction the moment the human body is born) (Jap Text: [機械の適合適応のため 、誕生の時点で人体の方を作り替える。])
Possessing an artificial metal skeletal frame and artificial muscles, genetic adjustments/alterations and a Linker Core regulating/tuning program unit implanted within, they possess a high combat strength/ability.
Thus Subaru, Ginga and all the Numbers were born as these [Combat Cyborgs].

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The power source for a cyborg is magic energy from their linker core that is converted to physical energy by implants to power their non-magical weapon/flight/special ability/whatever implants.
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Old 2011-07-30, 09:21   Link #3348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaterasu1963 View Post
People keep putting speculation about this in here even though Nagumo translated the booklet text a while ago. post

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Combat Cyborg (CD 2, track 16)
A weapon that seamlessly melds/unites the human body and cybernetics together. It is an old concept/idea but Scaglietti proclaimed that the perfect solution/answer [to accommodate the cybernetics, we must begin altering the human body the moment it is born] (alt trans: to prevent the rejection of the cybernetics, we must begin construction the moment the human body is born) (Jap Text: [機械の適合適応のため 、誕生の時点で人体の方を作り替える。])
Possessing an artificial metal skeletal frame and artificial muscles, genetic adjustments/alterations and a Linker Core regulating/tuning program unit implanted within, they possess a high combat strength/ability.
Thus Subaru, Ginga and all the Numbers were born as these [Combat Cyborgs].

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The power source for a cyborg is magic energy from their linker core that is converted to physical energy by implants to power their non-magical weapon/flight/special ability/whatever implants.
So, basically, the Bureau decided to use this as the basis for the AEC equipment as seen in Force.

Makes me wonder if they're picking Jail's brain while he's in prison.
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Old 2011-07-30, 10:27   Link #3349
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Interesting, so they tranform their magical energy into conventional energy for their IS.

That also explains how they manage to accomplish various effects that we don't see applied to magic regularly.

Quattro's illusions are indeed related with her IS "Silver Curtain" and have the unique ability to alter their electromagnetic space to fool radars or other tracking systems into identifying those as solid objects. I was good enough to bait Hayate out of her command seat and force her to show some of her own abilities to Jail. Cinque's "Rumble Detonator" allows her to make the composition of metals unstable causing it to explode. Sein seems to be a special case as her mutation allows her to alter her own molecular structure in order to phase trough solid objects, while there are means to emulate this ability there's apparently no way to outright duplicate it.

While most of them aren't specially powerfull in direct combat, the Numbers do have an interesting set of unique abilities, most of them never seen before in the Nanohaverse and that can be used efficiently with the correct strategy as Uno and Jail show to us
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Old 2011-07-30, 18:55   Link #3350
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How does Shari refer to Fate? I can't seem to find a single instance of them interacting and speaking in StrikerS besides the end... which doesn't have voices.
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Old 2011-07-30, 19:00   Link #3351
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I'm... not sure what you mean by the question, but while they're never seen talking on-screen, that doesn't stop them from talking off-screen.
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Old 2011-07-30, 19:00   Link #3352
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Honorifics, etc.
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Old 2011-07-30, 19:08   Link #3353
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Ah, she uses Fate-san. She has a great deal of respect for the trio, during their first meeting in the manga you could say she was a bit of a fangirl.
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Old 2011-08-01, 11:18   Link #3354
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Is there any particular reason (other than the writer's willingness to perpetuate the myth of Japanese inability to spell English words properly) that "close" (as in "range") is always rendered "cross" in the official English transliterations?
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Old 2011-08-01, 11:49   Link #3355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Is there any particular reason (other than the writer's willingness to perpetuate the myth of Japanese inability to spell English words properly) that "close" (as in "range") is always rendered "cross" in the official English transliterations?
Cross can also be done as "Clash".

So... *Shrug* Take it as you will.

Imprecise language is imprecise.
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Old 2011-08-01, 21:48   Link #3356
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What are the known functions for Relics? I read somewhere, don't remember where, that on their own they can help facilitate mind control, but I dunno if that's true or not.
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Old 2011-08-01, 21:56   Link #3357
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What are the known functions for Relics? I read somewhere, don't remember where, that on their own they can help facilitate mind control, but I dunno if that's true or not.
I'm not sure if it's explicitly true (as in, explained in a DVD extra or something), but it certainly seems true, given Ginga, Lutecia, and Vivio's examples from the final battles, where each is implanted with a Relic and Jail exercises mind-control over each, and the destruction of those Relics facilitates freeing them...
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Old 2011-08-01, 22:12   Link #3358
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It certainly gives them credence in Vivio's case, but then again, when Quattro got blasted Vivio lost some semblance of the mind control on her, which insinuates that they have other means of mind control, such as Lutecia. Did Lutecia even have a Relic implant like Vivio? I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere, same as Ginga... we certainly didn't see one get destroyed with either of them.
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Old 2011-08-01, 23:30   Link #3359
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Ginga was controlled by a relic?

I always tought that Jail messed up with her cyborg implants and do something to her nervous system in order to brainwash her or something xD.
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Old 2011-08-02, 00:33   Link #3360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Ginga was controlled by a relic?

I always tought that Jail messed up with her cyborg implants and do something to her nervous system in order to brainwash her or something xD.
Yeah, I was under the same impression... Did they really show a Relic inside her?

Also, I always thought the Relics to be a cheap source of mana, judging by the power-up Vivio received when implanted with one.
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