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Old 2011-07-31, 13:09   Link #15301
solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Historically speaking....no. They will blame the President...just like in every other economic crisis.
My gramps says that the electorate pay too much attention to the White House and less to the Congress which has the real power in this country.
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Old 2011-07-31, 14:25   Link #15302
Ithekro
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Well "The buck stops here" has been in place for a while now, and as something of a figurehead, the President is the one that can take focus. Congress is a blob of 535 people....that's hard to pinpoint anger on.
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Old 2011-07-31, 14:43   Link #15303
solomon
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Well people still complain about Congress.

If there is one thing that could help a lot of problems it's non political gerrymandering which will allow more voices and debate at the local level and probably force people to look across the street more and talk it out with their neighbor.
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Old 2011-07-31, 19:15   Link #15304
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Well people still complain about Congress.

If there is one thing that could help a lot of problems it's non political gerrymandering which will allow more voices and debate at the local level and probably force people to look across the street more and talk it out with their neighbor.
The thing with congress is people think it's every other congressman who's the problem. Their congressman has been fighting for programs that would create jobs in their district. Not like all those other congressmen who are ruining the country with their pork barrel spending. The tea party though, hasn't been doing that and in some cases has outright said they want to get Obama out of office even if they have to sink the economy to do so. It's going to be a lot harder for them to dodge blame if they have little to nothing to show that they've done for their own districts.
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Old 2011-07-31, 19:31   Link #15305
solomon
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A politcal commentator did point out on Al Jazeera.

The Tea Party only did come about with the advent of Obama's presidency. While defecits were being created under the Bush Admin, where was the outcry?
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Old 2011-07-31, 19:41   Link #15306
GDB
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
The tea party though, hasn't been doing that and in some cases has outright said they want to get Obama out of office even if they have to sink the economy to do so. It's going to be a lot harder for them to dodge blame if they have little to nothing to show that they've done for their own districts.
That's not just the Tea Party. Boehner said it too, and he's definitely not Tea Party.
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Old 2011-07-31, 19:54   Link #15307
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
A politcal commentator did point out on Al Jazeera.

The Tea Party only did come about with the advent of Obama's presidency. While defecits were being created under the Bush Admin, where was the outcry?
There was no outcry because Bush was a Republican (this is not fully true, there was an outcry, but the media didnít cover it. It was only after Obama was elected that the pre-existing outcry was co-opíd by business organizations and conservative commentators like Fox News that turned the initial outcry into the current mess that we all know). Realistically, it is only because Obama is a Democrat that the more conservative leaning citizens decided to finally start protesting (8+ years too late).
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Old 2011-07-31, 20:00   Link #15308
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
There was no outcry because Bush was a Republican (this is not fully true, there was an outcry, but the media didn’t cover it. It was only after Obama was elected that the pre-existing outcry was co-op’d by business organizations and conservative commentators like Fox News that turned the initial outcry into the current mess that we all know). Realistically, it is only because Obama is a Democrat that the more conservative leaning citizens decided to finally start protesting (8+ years too late).
Aye, you had to go way off mainstream to find any critical analysis... and then that was the LEFT and PROGRESSIVE spectrum where the question: "Why are the Bush wars being kept off the budget books?" "Why are we not raising taxes to cover the wars when every civilization in history including the US raised taxes to fight wars?"

From the so-called "right" (or neocon world) all we got was "Shut up and get in lockstep with Bush, you must be against us". The sort of thing that people like Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon, and even a bit of Reagan and Bob Dole would have dreaded the implications of.

Whatever grassroots merits the Tea Party may have had was hijacked by plutocrats funneling money into it and the swirling way the other skeletons in the closet (racism, fascist thuggery, social retrogressives, etc) jumped on board as well.
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Old 2011-07-31, 20:08   Link #15309
GundamFan0083
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*sarcasm* Well this will lift your spirits.

PIMCO chief: Deal won't prevent downgrading of US AAA credit rating

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ting-is-coming
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Old 2011-07-31, 20:48   Link #15310
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
There was no outcry because Bush was a Republican (this is not fully true, there was an outcry, but the media didnít cover it. It was only after Obama was elected that the pre-existing outcry was co-opíd by business organizations and conservative commentators like Fox News that turned the initial outcry into the current mess that we all know). Realistically, it is only because Obama is a Democrat that the more conservative leaning citizens decided to finally start protesting (8+ years too late).
So this begs the question, what would have happened if McCain had gotten elected?

Would the deficit have grown by a similiar amount, but without a wink from Fox and Friends?
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Old 2011-07-31, 20:57   Link #15311
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
So this begs the question, what would have happened if McCain had gotten elected?

Would the deficit have grown by a similiar amount, but without a wink from Fox and Friends?
Well, healthcare costs and oil prices would have gone up by 100% overnight.

Anyway :

Washington reaches sweeping budget deal

Quote:
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — President Barack Obama and Senate leaders announced Sunday night that they have reached agreement on a “framework” debt deal that will cut spending and increase the federal debt ceiling.

In brief statements only minutes apart this evening, Obama, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said the agreement would lift the cloud of possible default that has hovered over global financial markets.

“There are still some very important votes to be taken by Congress, but I want to announce the leaders of both parties in both chambers have reached an agreement that will reduce the deficit and avoid default,” Obama said.

Obama urged all members of Congress to support the deal while admitting it was not in the shape he preferred.

House Speaker John Boehner also informed House Republicans that he backed the budget deal and used a conference call with members to urge that they support it.

The deal must be approved by midnight Tuesday or the U.S. will breach its debt ceiling, leaving the Treasury with a dwindling supply of cash to pay its bills.

Experts have estimated that the department has enough cash on hand to pay all its bills for another week but after that would have to prioritize payments, raising the prospect that U.S. debt would be downgraded by ratings agencies.

Federal Reserve officials said a downgrading of U.S. debt would have unpredictable and serious consequences for the economy and financial markets.

Asian stock markets rallied after the budget deal was announced. Read more on Asia market reaction. U.S. stock futures also moved solidly higher. Read more on U.S. stock futures reaction.
Deal details

Under the framework deal, a $1 trillion increase in the debt-ceiling would be coupled with an immediate $1 trillion cut in discretionary spending.

Obama said these cuts would not happen so abruptly that they would be a drag on the economy.

A further increase in the debt ceiling that would last past 2012 would await the outcome of a special bipartisan Congressional committee tasked with coming up with additional deficit reduction before Thanksgiving that would be put before Congress for a vote.

If the second debt-reduction package is not passed, the deal would establish an automatic trigger of cuts to programs both Democrats and Republicans hold sacred.

Obama said tax revenues should be considered by the super-committee.

Obama said the process was “messy” and the budget talks had taken too long.

“But this compromise does make a serious down-payment on the deficit reduction we need, and gives each party a strong incentive to get a balanced plan done before the end of the year,” Obama said.

Analysts said the deal should clear the Senate but would have a tougher time in the House.

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said her caucus may not support the budget deal, which would put more pressure on Boehner to find votes among his conservative members.

The progressive wing of the House Democrats has already sharply criticized the triggers in the debt-ceiling plan.

“These triggers create a red line for us,” Rep. Keith Ellison, a Democrat from Minnesota, the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said in an interview on MSNBC.

Reid and McConnell said they would meet with their respective caucuses on Monday morning and a vote in the Senate would then occur.

If passed by the Senate, the measure would then move to the House.

“We are not done yet,” Obama said.
And surprise, surprise...... *sarcastic*

U.S. stock futures extend gains after debt deal

I wonder if Big Corp made the Republicans mess around with the debt deal so that it drives down future prices. Now once the deal is reach, the futures market goes up again, so they can close their positions and do this :

Insiders selling at unusually fast pace

And the US government and people will be the ones holding the empty sack in their hands while Big Corp gets away with a hefty trading profit.

I apologise to the Americans on this forum, but I agree with this guy :

Dump the Dollar

Don't worry, people will buy the dollar again when it goes low enough and investors start coming in again - but that will be dependent on when and how the Congress and Obama fix their shit.

The most obvious first step is to sack Bernanke though.
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:23   Link #15312
Sugetsu
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So how is that deal a compromise on the side of the republicans? It seems to me the tea party got all they wanted; no tax increases and another possible fight of this magnitude in a few months, while at the same time cutting spending on safety net programs AND threatening Obama's reelection.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
*sarcasm* Well this will lift your spirits.

PIMCO chief: Deal won't prevent downgrading of US AAA credit rating

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ting-is-coming
Nice find man, I don't see the mass media covering that story. Where is my umbrella to protect me from the shit storm that is about to hit the US? =(

Offtopic: By the way you never ended up reviewing the video on 911 =(
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:25   Link #15313
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
So how is that deal a compromise on the side of the republicans? It seems to me the tea party got all they wanted; no tax increases and another possible fight of this magnitude in a few months, while at the same time cutting spending on safety net programs AND threatening Obama's reelection.
They compromised on not completely crashing the US economy so Obama wouldn't get reelected. That's what they really wanted.
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:26   Link #15314
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
So how is that deal a compromise on the side of the republicans? It seems to me the tea party got all they wanted; no tax increases and another possible fight of this magnitude in a few months, while at the same time cutting spending on safety net programs AND threatening Obama's reelection.
simply put, Obama lost this game of chicken.
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:35   Link #15315
Sugetsu
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I must admit, as some people have already pointed out in the media, Obama is a terrible negotiator. He has lost the game of chicken twice already. The first time was when the republicans threatened to crash the economy if Obama did not renew the bush tax cuts...

By the way, if the tea party wants to cut expending so much why the hell they don't support ending the stupid wars that dragged the economy down in the first place?
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:40   Link #15316
Vexx
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He (and the Dems in Congress) have blinked every single time... which leads credence to the notion they're in the pockets of the Transnational Corporati and Wall Street anyway. It looks more and more like a puppet show with the same puppeteer behind every puppet.
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Old 2011-07-31, 21:52   Link #15317
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
So how is that deal a compromise on the side of the republicans? It seems to me the tea party got all they wanted; no tax increases and another possible fight of this magnitude in a few months, while at the same time cutting spending on safety net programs AND threatening Obama's reelection.
They're two peas in a pod and the Koch bros T-Party (T as in Trumped up) are just agitators IMHO. Like when one group puts provacateurs into another group to make them appear uncivil or insane.
Keep in mind the Koch bros don't like Ron Paul or anything related to Austrian economics, which is what the original TeaParty was based on.

Quote:
Nice find man, I don't see the mass media covering that story. Where is my umbrella to protect me from the shit storm that is about to hit the US? =(
Thank you Sugetsu.
I hear you.
I'm not doing so hot economically right now either, and it's starting to worry me.

Quote:
Offtopic: By the way you never ended up reviewing the video on 911 =(
That's weird.
I've been watching that documentary on and off all day today and was going to post about it tonight.
I'm at 1:15:00 minutes right now, so I still have about an hour+ left.
I must say it is VERY interesting.
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Old 2011-07-31, 22:00   Link #15318
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
He (and the Dems in Congress) have blinked every single time... which leads credence to the notion they're in the pockets of the Transnational Corporati and Wall Street anyway. It looks more and more like a puppet show with the same puppeteer behind every puppet.
Wall Street is selling off their US stocks anyway. Most people aren't given the chance to think - and they are forced to swim along with the idiots who overextend themselves.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-07-31, 22:02   Link #15319
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Wall Street is selling off their US stocks anyway.
Is this true??? Please do expand on this news. This will have HUGE implications in the near future if not already...
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Old 2011-07-31, 22:06   Link #15320
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Is this true??? Please do expand on this news. This will have HUGE implications in the near future if not already...
News don't report stock movements until a week later.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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